Thalandar's page

Yeah, I play paladins as judgmental. Because that's a class trait don'tcha know.

No, its not. In fact of the matter being judgemental is not in character with Lawful Good alignment, or at least shouldn't be. I will agree that that is the way most people play them.

Lawful Good: A lawful good character acts as a good person is expected or required to act. She combines a commitment to oppose evil with the discipline to fight relentlessly. She tells the truth, keeps her word, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice. A lawful good character hates to see the guilty go unpunished.

Lawful good combines honor with compassion.

I didn't see judgemental anywhere in there. I saw COMPASSION, I saw punish the GUILTY (which by the way is not the same as kill the guilty

The bad guys here are the evil brain things, they are guilty of controlling the innocent children and causing them to be killed.

Well, only if your friend here is only MOSTLY undead. There's a big difference between mostly undead and all undead. Mostly undead is slightly un-alive. With all-undead, well, with all-undead there's usually only one thing you can do.

** spoiler omitted **

"THIS is the cure for being undead?"

"The chocolate coating helps it go down easier."

The charactger doesn't have the deficiency in mental stats to excuse its actions.

By all accounts, the character is Chaotic Evil, because it simply doesn't care how she flings her magic... or who it hurts.

I don't agree, CN at worst. She cares, just didn't know...if she had bothered to think about it before acting, she might have done something different. Impulsive and dimwitted? Yes. Evil, no.

Wow, I never thought I'd say this but I REALLY appreicate my group. Smokers respect the non-smokers, drinkers respect non-drinkers and no one direspects the host (or his wife).

I am a 6, most of the time.

Dude, been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

I am in the same boat

As a Gm, I can tell you I am constantly baffled by what my characters do. I have learned that I cannot run a "linear" game, with set encounters, because the characters will always come up with a solution that I didn't think of or by-pass a key encounter.

I am still baffled by their actions a lot

In the "classic" dungeon you should always have a Gelatinous Cube
and some Carrion Crawlers (which don't seem to have made the translation to Pathfinder) to help clean up the place.

If there is a trash or refuse pile, it will always have a Otyugh.

If there is a maze there will always be a minotuar.

Oh, and all dungeons seem to have the chess board room.

Oh and don't forget my favorite, a 20'x 20' room with a huge dragon in it. There is only one standard door not other exits, no water or food source.

An update

I’ve been running a game on the forums here for a while now, and just took over another game that was in need of a replacement DM. I thought I’d share my experiences.

So far the people I have encountered on the forum games have been just excellent, kind and helpful (and for the most part way ahead of me in all of the newer aspects of Pathfinder that I have just not been able to catch up to). I’ve tried to keep the games interesting, but it does seem that I am “missing” something, at times.

It has been almost a year since I last played a table top session of my favorite game, and kind of feels like there just isn’t going to be anyone I can play with ever again. I visited the local B&M store on a game night and watched a Pathfinder game being played, and they were all twenty-something’s who looked at me like I should be in a rest home (haha, I’m exaggerating, maybe, but still).

I bought a couple of Pathfinder products and some Game Mastery flip maps just a few weeks ago telling myself that, “I have a great I dead for an adventure, now if I can only find some players…” and it sort of made me sad a few days after when I saw the things I bought in a pile in the bedroom.

But mostly it has been a very good experience meeting and playing with some of the people here on these forums. Thank you Paizo.

You ever get to Kansas City area, look me up...I'll play in your game/run for you any day.

P.H. Dungeon wrote:

I had a player in my Savage Tide campaign playing a goliath barbarian. He had some cheesy racial feat that would let him assume large size when he went into his rage. They were on the Isle of Dread and he'd wandered off with a fellow PC to get some fire wood. The pair runs into a T-rex.

I remember that T-rex. He ate our dwarf barbarian/ranger. The character was an absolute powerhouse but didn't have any weapon other than his greataxe. So the t-rex swallowed him whole and he couldn't get free before dying.

Another addition for myself for worst death:
** spoiler omitted **...

I forgot about that damn t-rex, add that to my list too. That t-rex was a TPK. That was sooo long ago, I was wearing parachute pants when it happened.

It also rememinds me of "death by root beer". Only copy of my character written in no.2 pencil on notebook paper. My friend's 2 liter bottle of root beer explodes and destroys said character sheet....

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

Well, any wizard who reaches 20th level can take the immortality discovery .

But otherwise, yeah, I'd agree with the "good is hard (but you go to heaven)" line of thought above.

Doug M.

But that's at level 20. Lichdom can be done much earlier. As usual, evil has the 'shortcut'.

Luke: Is the Darkside stronger?

Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

Aurora's Whole Realm Catalog is a good look at the Wal-mart distribution idea in a high magic fantasy world, although it wasn't magic items, it was a magic distribution organization. Apply the same logic to magic shops.

I like the idea of having the magic shop as a patron for adventurers-what better source of magic items?

Thalandar wrote:

And why not have magic shops when PC wizards can crank out magic items for half the price anyway?

** spoiler omitted **

But more seriously, aren't there enough threads about item creation? Let's keep on the topic of magic item shop pros/cons, instead of item creation.

Because if players can make items easily then NPCs can, too. If you want to talk about magic item shop pros and cons, you have to look at supply and demand. If the party has a PC wizard, he can create the magic items, underselling the magic shop.

I think you should also look things like modern fashion trends and high society as a base. If the rich and noble can buy items like ring of substance and handy haversacks how would that effect basic life? it would be like boob jobs and face lifts in modern society.

What would be the trendy magic items?

Let the players play the characters they want to play. Nothing is worse than, "ok, I guess I'll play a cleric since we don't have one." That's not really fair to the player that doesn't want to play one.

That being said, show no mercy on them. A lot of GM's would throw extra healing potions at the party or offer a NPC cleric. Not me, as I find it stimulates the player's creativeness. The player's will find a way to make it work. If they don't the won't live long.

3 arcane spell casters eh? what kinds of arcane spellcasters?

The "Rule of Cool" does not apply to dumb ideas that don't work, now IF he had pulled it off, different story.

Take for example Gimli asking Aragorn to throw him into a bunch of orcs in the Two Towers movie. Tactically that was a really bad idea. It just happened to work. Had Gimli overshot or undershot or landed prone, orcs and defenders of Hem's Deep alike would have said "That was stupid. Dwarf got what he deserved."

There is a fine line between bravery and foolhardiness, often measured by the failure or success of you action.

Vincent, you've missed my point completely.

If this player had asked in a more polite and respectful manner, the GM would probably ruled differently. This is what he's saying when he mentions the other players in his group, since they're polite and reasonable.

However he wasn't. Therefore his belligerent and annoying tone has now set the precedent for this gm's table if ever this situation arises again. In essence, the rude player has ruined the option of special consideration for everyone else from this point on.

This GM treated this guy with respect on numerous occasions, letting him play character despite GM reservations, giving him options and compromise after the event, and even checking here to see if his rules interpretations were correct (and they were).

You're not asking for the DM to be fair at all. You're asking him to do whatever the players ask of him, no matter the situation. That is unfair, On the DM.

Now imagine if he'd given in to this player. Ignore anything about the behaviour, just the bit about the rules. If he sets a precedent that characters should survive despite bad decisions and inspire of the rules, then he's effectively telling his players there are no consequences and no real danger for your actions. That is obviously to what he wants at his game. Nor do the rest of his players it seems.

Indeed, this is what distinguishes table RPGs from computer games with save functions.

Cheers

**Pops popcorn and gets the lawn chair to watch the blood begin again.**

I agree with you, but you know not what can o worms ye has opened. I hope you get through were I could not. Done now just watching the flames with the rest...

@ciretose: you have been helping your arguement by being calm, clear and intelligent with your responses-long before vincent put his foot in his mouth.

@vinocent: I almost saw a slight possiblity of seeing your side, right up til you threw your ideal aside and advocated the unkind act of cheating in a game to show a Gm the errors of cheating.

You have just invalidated your whole arguement, and destroyed your creditability.

I hope the lessoned learned here is that there is a right way and a wrong way to disagree with your gamemaster. I will leave it to the reader to decide which is which.

For what its worth, Ciretose, players like you are welcome at my table any day.

Ok, let me get this straight. You advocate the ideal of being kind to someone when they are not being kind to you, because MAYBE they will see the errors of their ways and act differently.

Then, you cheat in a game, indeed advocate all the players to cheat, because the gamemaster is cheating and we all know the kind way to treat a cheater is to cheat him?

I am I missing something here?

Absolutely the players time is valuable. Absolutely you should treat them with respect.

This is what I don't understand How is it not being fair to the player? he is already disrupting the game, disrespecting the GM and the rest of the players. He is already power gaming with his character builds.

But we are worried about how the player feels? Is he thinking about the GMs feelings? Is he think about the other players feelings?

This situation is entirely the players doing. He's acting like a jerk and expecting everyone to treat him respectfully.

Thalandar wrote:

My source, is my personal experience, as I said in my post. I deal with whiny people all the time, have for many, many years. In my experience, if you give a whiny person an inch, they take a mile. Meanwhile, the other players get resentful of you the gamemaster.

I have many times, tried to deal with a whiny person by giving into them. It causes more problems than it solves.

While we are at it, site your sources please? Is this your experience? Your philiosphy of implementation is to give in to the whiner by letting them have their way and this fosters a feeling of unexpected generosity makes him less of a whiner? Or am I misrepresenting you here?

Cause that dog don't hunt pal. Human nature, if you whine and get your way, makes you more likely to whine MORE. Ask ANY parent, they will tell you the same.

But, you still failed to answer the question: What ideal are you promoting?

Well then I'm sorry I dont consider your personal experience to be a valid sample size for my purposes. I don't need to cite my sources because i'm not trying to establish a percentage of success or not. Even if the past performance is 0% i still do what i do in pursuit of even 1%. You bet thats idealism. Possibly by definition even...

The ideal being promoted against me is that whiners only learn not to be whiners by being punished for being whiners. Which works great for 3 year olds. The ideal i'm trying to promote is that treating people with kindness even when they dont return the favor can be regarded as a valid tool for making them change thier mind.

You calling it wrongbad fun?

At no time did I say so, I am actually trying to so your point.

You said: The ideal I'm trying to promote is that treating people with kindness even when they dont return the favor can be regarded as a valid tool for making them change thier mind.

However, before that statement you said: Well then I'm sorry I dont consider your personal experience to be a valid sample size for my purposes. Which just basiclly says, "You don't know what you're talking about, your experience isn't valid" Which is rude and arguementive, and proves you don't pratice your ideal.

So you don't live by your ideal, you just shove them down others throats? If you really believed that ideal you would be treating everyone on this post with kindness even if they arent treating you kindly.

Fair. What is "fair" as a GM? I think after 254 posts it is safe to say that there are a lot of different opinions as to what is being "fair" as a gamemaster.

I work 40+ hours a week. One weekend a month and two weeks a year (ha! right, I wish!) I serve in the Army Reserve. I have three children and a very understanding, beautiful wife that I don't spend enough time with. My "honey-do" list and my "honey-you-better-do" lists is long than I like.

Still, I fine time to prepare my game and run a weekly game. I have players, who give me detailed backgrounds, design floor plans and who contact me via email, texts and phone during the week. I have players who I only hear from as they are walking in the door to play the game.

Do I treat them differntly? Darn right! Is that fair? You better believe it, pal! If you whine, rules layer and take away from the enjoyment of others, I am going to give you the bare minimuim back as a Gamemaster. You are not going to be a key player, and the plot isn't going to center on you.

Gasp! So unfair....not! My time is valuable, I have other things that I could be doing, if you waste that as a player I am going to treat you differently....and, guess what, it is completely FAIR!

I as a GM, will invest into you as a player as much as YOU as a player invest into my game. If you whine, rules layer and make my game time unfun, I am not going be partial to you as a player or a character.

Why is it "fair" for you as a player/character to waste my time and the other players time?

I agree with Ylissa, tell him not my game ask the GM. If there is play to play conflict like this it falls on the Gamemaster to address the issue. You could also say "why don't YOU look it up and TELL me?" or "what do you think the answer is?"

Talk to your GM about it, as well as your fellow players. Odds are, you are more well loved in the group than you think. I commend you for taking the high road, wishing to bow out as to not cause conflict. My bet is that this guy is coming across as an a-hole to everyone.

I would bet, if you sid to the GM "I am sorry, I am just not having fun because of "that guy", and I don't think I can play anymore" you might be suprised by the result.

Based on what I am hearing your are more beloved in the group than you realize and I am sure many of your group would peer pressure this guy into shutting up.

Like a cohort from the Leadership feat, I would say he can't have a level higher than the PC -2.

Darth Grall wrote:

Imo OP you are handling it well, and despite you and your players antagonism, the two of you were mature enough to deal with this out of game. Having dealt with this kind of thing before in game, I commend both of you on that.

As for the subject of retconning game events, don't be too afraid to change results if not the actual events. Hypothetically say he wasn't entangled and you legitimately denied him the check to live. I'd "Deus Ex Machina" things a little. In this situation, I would probably have(assuming the PC was right) fluffed that he miraculously survived the fall as if he'd burned Hero Points or something.

I think this kind of "retcon" doesn't detract from the verisimilitude of the game, since this shouldn't be happening all the time. And it is way more believable than starting game and saying: "Jonny didn't fall off the cliff last time and died, instead he heroically broke free and flew away."

However I stress that's not what you do in this situation. The player died, by RAW, and that's all she wrote. Just food for thought for future fumbles.

As an aside he doesn't need to break free to fly away though. Read the Fly skill he can make fly checks to avoid falling damage and nothing about being grappled stops that from happening since fly doesn't require hands.

In fact preventing him from taking those checks is violating the RAW so at the least that option should have been available to him.

What is preventing him from making the checks is the orb, the grease, the fact that he is grappled, the fact that its only 300' and its been proven by RAW he doesn't have time-AND MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL THE GAMEMASTER MADE A CALL

Sorry, based on the info you have given us, I have to quote Ghostbusters: "That was your whole plan,"Get her!"???"

At low levels, you NEED to be prepared to retreat and regroup (heck, even at high levels, but lots of characters get cocky).

Why is it that so many groups of adventurers feel they are entitled to win by force of arms alone-or that they are entitled to win, just because they are the players?

I don't kill characters, stupid actions by players kill characters. If you rush in where angel's fear to tread, without thinking, without an escape plan, without the right spells prepared, you are going to be lucky if you survive.

Now, that being said, if you are cautious and have good battle plans and still not overcoming... It might be time for a heart to heart with the GM and say, dude, just not having fun having tpk every week....

Its really simple. The party is good. I am evil. I, however, cannot do a lot by myself. It is in my best interests to work with the group, in fact it is with in the lawful part of my alignment.

You just have to play evil smart. Yes, you are going to have odds with the good characters. Its called roleplaying, and it can really make for interesting roleplaying.

It will be a challenge. It will lead to conflict, also called drama (which is FUN) It will force your players to redefine their characters goals.