TemplarsKnight's page

The -1 AC for the barbarian archetype is almost certainly intentional. The old archetype didn't even mention the AC penalty because it was part of the Rage action anyway. Adding the line about the AC penalty was a deliberate choice.

That being said, I do agree that the archetype feels even worse now (despite not actually having changed in any way). Not getting a higher Rage damage bonus, Quick-Tempered or the speed bonus seems like it would already make archetype Rage sufficiently weaker. Adding the AC penalty is adding insult to injury.

I understand your reasoning and had that in mind too. I can only imagine, since there was no BLOG entry for the Barbarian, they rebuilt it in the last meters and maybe had different design and version states.

In any case, this is the biggest fail in the book so far.

@Paizo: Remove the -1AC penalty from the Barbarian archetype. The removal of Fast Movement as a Feat Choice is already a knockdown. But this AC deviation....puh

Barbarian Archetype the -1 AC in Rage was not removed.

I know of no other place where an ability with the same name from the same class exists in two variants. Nor do I know of any other place where an archetype is a direct downgrade from the actual class.

All deviations have so far been secured via feat dependencies or class features.

Either the -1 AC must be removed from the barbarian archetype or this penalty must be restored to -1 AC in the barbarian class and reduced to 0 via a separate class feature.

The Barbarian archetype has thus become very unattractive and every table will now question heroes because of the remaining -1 AC. I don't think that's Paizo's goal. So please add it to the Day 1 errata!

Agreed. Not getting a higher damage bonus, Quick-Tempered and Furious Footfalls seems like a perfectly fine balance point for the archetype to have a weaker version of Rage. The AC penalty is too much. And the archetype was already on the wek side.

I think Quick-Tempered would be too much for the archetype, even if it costs an extra feat. But Furious Footfalls as an archetype feat wouldn't really be much different from what other archetypes like monk, swashbuckler or scout can get you. So it's omission is a bit baffling.

I can go along with that. @Paizo....Please think about this and include it in the errata. I mean a Barbarian Dedication had already given little additional damage anyway....now even worse than the actual class and without the 10 feat movement...I'm really thinking about training it away.

Unfortunately, I'm not so euphoric because the Barbarian archetype retains -1 AC and the Fast Movement Feat has been removed as it has been converted to a Class Feat. This is devastating for the Barbarian archetype.

It would have been nice if the new Class Features had been offered as Archetypes Feat, so that you could at least purchase them: Quick-Tempered and Furious Footfalls

in my opinion too short-sighted...

Unfortunately, I'm not so euphoric because the Barbarian archetype retains -1 AC and the Fast Movement Feat has been removed as it has been converted to a Class Feat. This is devastating for the Barbarian archetype.

It would have been nice if the new Class Features had been offered as Archetypes Feat, so that you could at least purchase them: Quick-Tempered and Furious Footfalls

We will switch from PF1 to PF2 in the spring and this will be my first hero with the new rules (campaign from 1-20).
Which feats are really worthwhile, am I missing critical maneuvers or is something completely wasted! With variant I the damage can be a bit weak, and with variant II an action problem can arise with frequently changing targets.

Please do not hesitate to suggest a completely different variant. Thanks!

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Ancestry Human: 1 Natural Ambition, 5 Darkseer, 9 Multitalented - Rogue Dedication, 13 Mountain's Stoutness, 17 Unburdened Iron

General: 1 Adopted Ancestry Dwarven, 3 Ancestral Paragon (Gloomser), 7 Fleet, 11 Toughness, 15 Canny Acumen - Will Save, 19 Diehard

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Variant I

Bastard Sword & Sturdy Shield -> if shield breaks -> 2handed

Ancestry lvl 1: Natural Ambition (Power Attack)

Level Class
1 Reactive Shield (at 9 retrain into Sudden Charge)
2 Barbarian Dedication (Spirit)
3
4 Barbarian Resiliency
5
6 Instinct Ability
7
8 Quick Shield Block (at 9 retrain into Bastion Dedication)
9 Combat Flexibility (Quick Shield Block)
10 Certain Strike
11
12 Paragon's Guard (at 15 retrain into Skill Mastery Rogue)
13
14 Shield Salvation
15 Improved Flexibility (Paragon's Guard)
16 Basic Trickery - Mobility
17
18 Advanced Trickery - Opportune Backstab
19
20 Boundless Reprisals

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Variant II

Shortsword & Sturdy Shield

Ancestry lvl 1: Natural Ambition (Sudden Charge)

Level Class
1 Reactive Shield
2 Assassin Dedication (Marked of Death)
3
4 Expert Backstabber
5
6 Sneak Attacker
7
8 Quick Shield Block
9 Combat Flexibility (Blind-Fight or Lunge)
10 Agile Grace
11
12 Paragon's Guard (at 15 retrain into Skill Mastery Rogue)
13
14 Basic Trickery - Mobility
15 Improved Flexibility (Paragon's Guard)
16 Advanced Trickery - Opportune Backstab
17
18 free
19
20 Boundless Reprisals

Hello guys,

is it really possible, that you can use Snagging Strike / Combat Grab with a Steel Shield wrapped around your arm as soon you have the Nimble Shield Hand feat? I thought the hand counts free for action type Interact and not other combat actions.

Left Hand: Steel Shield
Right Hand: 1handed Weapon

I stumbled upon the point when reading the notice on Taondor's Fighter Handbook: Nimble Shield Hand - You can wield a shield and still use all those “dueling” feats that require a free hand.

Rule extract:

Snagging Strike / Combat Grab
Requirements: You have one hand free, and your target is within reach of that hand.

Nimble Shield Hand
You are so used to wielding a shield that you can do so even while using the hand that's holding it for other purposes. The hand you use to wield a shield counts as a free hand for the purposes of the Interact action. You can also hold another object in this hand (but you still can't use it to wield a weapon).

After lots of tweaking I will go with the following build in near future.

>>> Build <<<

Thanks for the input and maybe the concept will serve as inspiration for others.

Greetings
Templars_Knight

Based on the feedback from "Castilliano, citricking, Kyrone" I revised the build again.

Four points that make me struggle:
1. Instead Warhammer -> Light Hammer. I lose the d8, but I get the opportunity to sneak and throwing 20ft.
2. Certain Strike into Agile Grace to get better chance to hit.
3. Paragon's Guard delayed to (lvl 15).
4. Additional HP from Toughness, Barbarian Resiliency and Mountain's Stoutness are placed in the back path.

Level 1-20
Class-Feats:
Reactive Shield (lvl 1), Barbarian Dedication - Spirit Instinct (lvl 2), Shielded Stride (lvl 4) but Retrain into Basic Fury - Second Wind @ (lvl 14), Instinct Ability MC Spirit (lvl 6), Reflexive Shield (lvl 8), Quick Shield Block (lvl 9), Agile Grace (lvl 10), Sneak Attacker (lvl 12), Basic Trickery - Mobility (14), Paragon's Guard (lvl 15), Advanced Fury - Renewed Vigor (lvl 16), Advanced Trickery - Opportune Backstab (lvl 18), Boundless Reprisals (lvl 20)

Skill-Feats:
Quick Jump (lvl 1), Quick Repair (lvl 2), Combat Climber (lvl 4), Rapid Mantel (lvl 6), Kip Up (lvl 8), Cat Fall (lvl 9), Powerful Leap (lvl 10), Wall Jump (lvl 12), Steady Balance (lvl 14), Quick Climber (lvl 16), Cloud Jump (lvl 18), Craft Anything (lvl 20)

General-Feats:
Adopted Ancestry - Dwarven (lvl 1), Ancestral Paragon - Gloomser (lvl 3), Ancestral Paragon - Unburdened Iron (lvl 7), Assurance Crafting (lvl 11), Canny Acumen -Will Save (lvl 15), Toughness (lvl 19)

Ancestry-Feats:
Natural Ambition - Sudden Charge (lvl 1), Darkseer (lvl 5), Multitalented - Rogue Dedication (lvl 9), Mountain's Stoutness (lvl 13), Untrained Improvisation (lvl 17)

Skill-Increase:
Acrobatics Expert (lvl 3), Crafting Expert (lvl 5), Crafting Master (lvl 7), Athletics Expert (lvl 9), Athletics Master (lvl 11), Acrobatics Master (lvl 13), Crafting Legendary (lvl 15), Athletics Legendary (lvl 17), Acrobatics Legendary (lvl 20)

Ability Boosts: [Str 19, Dex 14, Con 18, Wis 14] (lvl 5), [Str 20, Dex 16, Con 19, Wis 16] (lvl 10), [Str 21, Dex 16, Con 20, Wis 16] (lvl 15), [Str 22, Dex 18, Con 20, Wis 18, Int 12] (lvl 20)

Are these worthy changes to add the Rogue flair (Suprise Attack, 1d6 Sneak Damage, Extra Skill Feat, Thievery and another skill trained, Mobitiy and Backstab?

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If not this chain would be an alternative build with Warhammer:

Class-Feats:
Reactive Shield (lvl 1), Barbarian Dedication - Spirit Instinct (lvl 2), Shielded Stride (lvl 4), Instinct Ability MC Spirit (lvl 6), Reflexive Shield (lvl 8), Quick Shield Block (lvl 9), Certain Strike (lvl 10), Paragon's Guard (lvl 12), Basic Fury - Second Wind (14), Blindfight (lvl 15), Advanced Fury - Renewed Vigor (lvl 16), Barbarian Resiliency (lvl 18), Boundless Reprisals (lvl 20)

Skill-Feats:
Quick Jump (lvl 1), Quick Repair (lvl 2), Combat Climber (lvl 4), Rapid Mantel (lvl 6), Kip Up (lvl 8), Powerful Leap (lvl 10), Cat Fall (lvl 12), Wall Jump (lvl 14), Steady Balance (lvl 14), Cloud Jump (lvl 18), Quick Climber (lvl 20)

General und Ancestry would be the same like above.

Greetings
Templars_Knight

Thank you for the comments. These were good hints!

Modifications:
1. Reactive Shield is now taken at (lvl 1)
2. Sudden Charge at (lvl 4) via Basic Fury from Barbarian MC. This will get me the prerequisite for Advanced Fury.
3. Canny Acumen will be delayed because Master will come in place at (lvl 17).
4. Assurance (Crafting) will be added at (lvl 11). The fixed skill check result should help for reparing the shield in urgent need. I have to calculate whether the result can repair the level-dependent Sturdy shield.

Two things I am still thinking about:
1. Warhammer or Sword. Its mainly 'min-maxing' vs. RP - A small bonus for the sword would be: If the first hit is a critical hit, the second and third attack would participate from the "flat-footed" condition.
2. Instinct Spirit or Giant - The Anathema of Spirit "Disrespecting corpses or spirits is anathema to your instinct; defending yourself against undead creatures is not." has to be discussed with group. If looting corpses in dungeons and other location will trigger the anathema would be slightly annoying. Fallback would be Giant Instinct.

Level 1-12
Class-Feats:
Reactive Shield (lvl 1), Barbarian Dedication - Spirit Instinct (lvl 2), Basic Fury - Sudden Charge (lvl 4), Instinct Ability MC Spirit (lvl 6), Reflexive Shield (lvl 8), Quick Shield Block (lvl 9), Certain Strike (lvl 10), Paragon's Guard (lvl 12)

Skill-Feats:
Quick Jump (lvl 1), Quick Repair (lvl 2), Combat Climber (lvl 4), Rapid Mantel (lvl 6), Kip Up (lvl 8), Powerful Leap (lvl 10), Cat Fall (lvl 12)

General-Feats:
Adopted Ancestry - Dwarven (lvl 1), Ancestral Paragon - Unburdened Iron (lvl 3), Toughness (lvl 7), Assurance (Crafting) (lvl 11)

Ancestry-Feats:
Gloomseer (lvl 1), Darkseer (lvl 5), Mountain's Stoutness (lvl 9)

Skill-Increase:
Acrobatics Expert (lvl 3), Crafting Expert (lvl 5), Crafting Master (lvl 7), Athletics Expert (lvl 9), Athletics Master (lvl 11)

Ability Boosts: [Str +1, Dex +2, Con +2, Wis +2] (lvl 5), [Str +1, Dex +2, Con +1, Wis +2] (lvl 10)

Cheers

We played last week via "astraltabletop". Lots of free stuff and worked very well without pro account. Complete group liked it!

Audio was via Discord.

Try it out.

Greetings
Templars_Knight

Edit: We played first edition, but second is supported as well.

An option that you have is take Reactive Shield first and then getting the Sudden Charge from Barbarian dedication to qualify to advanced furry if have any Barbarian feat that you would like to have.

This is a very good idea which I totally missed. Thank you very much!

I am currently thinking about the 'Fury' Instinct and to drop the "Instinct Ability Feat" completely to get 'Reflexive Shield' at lvl 6 and 'Quick Shield Block' at lvl 8. At 9 I could take 'Second Wind' or 'Raging Athlete'. I lack knowledge of the new encounters, whether these skills are helpful at all.

Titans Damage is very nice, but the 'clumsy 1' is too much with the already existing AC penalty from Rage.

Templars_Knight

Goal: Good damage output and can handle incoming damage very well. Sword and Shield are a must have.

Ancestry: Human (Versital Heritage)
Alignment: Neutral
Ethnic: Nidalese (close to Mindspin Mountains)
Deity: Gorum
Class: Fighter - MC Barbarian
Weapon: Longsword
Armor: Fullplate & Steel Shield
Background: Martial Discipline (Athletics)
Trained Skills: Acrobatics (Fighter), Athletics (Background), Lore Warfare (Background), Crafting, Survival, Stealth, Medicine

Background Story in short: The family owned a mine in East Nidal. The whole family believed in Densa and built a secret shrine for other Desna believers in the mine. Dream hunters tracked them down and murdered them. A dwarf in the mine helped me escape and took me to Kraggodan. With the death of my parents, I lost my connection to Desna and in my anger I converted to Gorum. The relationships between the dwarves had given me a place in Korholm Military Academy, where I was released early after 2 years due to my uncontrolled anger. I returned to my dwarf friend. I learned the first steps of blacksmithing from him and otherwise I did simple mercenary assignments to keep myself financially afloat.

Starting Stats:
Str: 18
Dex: 12
Con: 16
Int: 10
Wis: 12
Cha: 10

Level 1-12
Class-Feats:
Sudden Charge (lvl 1), Barbarian Dedication - Spirit Instinct (lvl 2), Reactive Shield (lvl 4), Instinct Ability MC Spirit (lvl 6), Reflexive Shield (lvl 8), Quick Shield Block (lvl 9), Certain Strike (lvl 10), Paragon's Guard (lvl 12)

Skill-Feats:
Quick Jump (lvl 1), Quick Repair (lvl 2), Combat Climber (lvl 4), Rapid Mantel (lvl 6), Kip Up (lvl 8), Powerful Leap (lvl 10), Cat Fall (lvl 12)

General-Feats:
Adopted Ancestry - Dwarven (lvl 1), Ancestral Paragon - Unburdened Iron (lvl 3), Toughness (lvl 7), Canny Acumen -Will Save (lvl 11)

Ancestry-Feats:
Gloomseer (lvl 1), Darkseer (lvl 5), Mountain's Stoutness (lvl 9)

Skill-Increase:
Acrobatics Expert (lvl 3), Crafting Expert (lvl 5), Crafting Master (lvl 7), Athletics Expert (lvl 9), Athletics Master (lvl 11)

Thank you,
Templars_Knight