Telrathel's page

Ok so I already checked the forums just to be sure this hasn't come up and I didn't see it anywhere. My question is, assuming you had an Assassin with his death attack and high ranks of UMD for scrolls of time stop, (I know it's crazy expensive) could you cast time stop then during the rounds in which time stop is in effect do the required studying of your target for death attack.

A few friends of mine have argued it goes against the idea of studying the target, being that when your studying them they aren't actually active, but as far as RAW goes I personally don't see any reason this doesn't work.

ok just to make sure I'm reading this right, when crafting a magic item that you have a feat for (aside from magic arms and armor), you can for example, create any item that has a caster level of 10, even if you only have a caster level of 6. The caster level of 10 is only there for the DC of the creation/identification, ect.

also when crafting magic arms and armor and the rule of 3 caster levels per +1, I take that to mean you can make a +1 weapon with a +1 special quality at 3rd level, max of +5 weapon with a +5 quality at 15th level.

Max 8 attacks is Max 8 attacks no matter how slice it. It says attacks not natural attacks.

This sounds like a rules over sight. Pounce should only work with natural weapons and no matter what the Eidolon can't exceed 8 attacks unless he is hasted...

actually under the passage of max attacks on page 34 it says:

Max. Attacks: This indicates the maximum number of natural attacks that the eidolon is allowed to possess at the given level. If the eidolon is at its maximum, it cannot take evolutions that grant additional natural attacks.

from my reading it can still take weapons and gain extra attacks from them, hence gaining more than 8 attacks.

now with pounce, yeah probably an oversite, but RAW says it works for the moment.

I think the thread was before the latest playtest changes so the Eidolon is limited to 8 attacks now instead of like 16+ or whatever it had before.
I really don't like the quad form anyway. The crappy will save is a big hole in the Eidolons defense.

nah this was all made after the latest changes, using wielded weapons you can still get more attacks then is limited to the max of natural attacks for the eidolon, and pounce just says you can make a full attack after a charge, so yes its still possible, just harder to do now.

Telrathel wrote:

I thought you could use vital strike when you charge cause you can use it during an attack action, figured the use of charge action had an attack action inside of it and was simply a combo of the attack and move actions.

Nope. A charge is a special kind of full-round action. VS, IVS, & GVS all require an "attack action" which, it has been stated by Jason, is a type of standard action. Since you can't use a full-round action in the same round you use a standard action, you can't use a charge with a VS.

-Skeld

oh well, vital strike really wasn't adding all that much anyway so meh.

Yeah, you can't use vital strike when you charge, or when you super charge, as is the case here. Even if you do, you don't mult the V. Strike damage into the crit. Yeah, it would be cool though...

I thought you could use vital strike when you charge cause you can use it during an attack action, figured the use of charge action had an attack action inside of it and was simply a combo of the attack and move actions.

Is my math correct for a 11th level cavalier with a size S lance:

10th level challenge = 4d6
Spirited Charge = 3d6 + dam. mod. x3
Improved Vital Strike = 2d6

TOTAL = 9d6 + dam. mod. x3

Since a lance is a x3 crit. weapon, would a confirmed critcal hit be 11d6 + dam. mod. x5 ?

they changed Cavalier's challange to be +1 dam per Cavalier level, so you should be looking at +10 from that.

and yes from my understanding on a crit with a lance charging it would scale the multiplier by 2 because of the 3x on the lance

so I believe your looking at 5d6 + (dam mod x3) +30

or with a crit 7d6 + (dam mod x5) +50

... because a Strength of 10 is a +0 bonus, not a +5. 10 is the baseline in D&D. Every 2 points above 10, you get a +1 bonus. So, a Strength of 50 is 40 points above 10, yielding a +20 bonus.

yeah sorry, total brain fart on that one.

Nope, secondary natural attacks are at -5 to hit and do 1/2 Strength bonus damage. That's +10 in the sample Eidolon's case because it has a 50 Strength. (50-10)/2 = a +20 bonus. 20/2 = +10 damage on secondary natural attacks.

ok, still not sure why you are reducing his strength from a 50 to a 40 before you divide by 2 but yes I see your point about his secondary attacks not counting for as much, again going to run some numbers and see how much worse it really is for a fully built character.

as I originally said I believe fighter in the end will still come out on top against the whole summoner/eidolon combo.

with that said however I would again like to say that I still believe your putting the summoner/eidolon too low, if you would like I'll make up a summoner myself at level 18 and see how well I do against the balor (probably will do it anyway at this point just to see for myself)

as for the comment about buffs I was pointing out that a summoner can be buffing his eidolon while its attacking without slowing it down any, I did notice your fighter was unbuffed but I assumed that was because of the attempt at soloing a cr 20 where you couldn't get spells from other sources (such as party members that would normally be there) given that summoners do their own I think for this debate the summoner/eidolon should have their hour/level buffs to add against a unbuffed fighter who would need someone else to buff them.

and as for the natural attacks you put his damage numbers at 1dx+10, I was under the impression that a secondary natural attack was still at full Str mod damage? even if its 1/2 thats +12, granted not much more but still is why I'm confused on how you got to just +10 (I'll fully admit this could be my lack of monster knowledge in general)

like I said though I'm gonna run some numbers and see how far behind the fighter this combo really is.

well to be fair he didn't add in any natural attacks, which he could have up to 7 more then he listed, thats about 1d8 +25 each with even the lowest of the evolutions (tentacles). Also I noticed on your fighter you already figured in 20th level equipment which again the OP didn't do, now add in the fact that there is a summoner attached to this eidolon giving it buffs and other summons and I believe you might have a run for your money

but don't get me wrong, I still think the fighter would beat the eidolon in the end, as I believe that it should.

It's just that the biggest thing I notice on these posts is looking at either the summoner or the eidolon by themselves and not as a package deal, and also how its always overpowered compaired to this or underpowered compaired to that, instead of simply seeing it as a nice middle ground that can hold its own in some situations and not so much in others, while I don't agree with all the changes this class has gone through I think the current rule set is the best I've seen yet and makes me very tempted to try this class in my next game.

just my two cents.

ok so my question is simply, by using the Eidolons evolution ability to give yourself Sorc/Wiz spells as SLAs can you take summon monster as a spell for that? I would think yes however I know a summoned creature can't summon creatures as part of the "summoned" template.

from reading posts from the previous playtest however, I remember there was a discussion about Eidolons and the Augment Summoning feat and I believe it was decided that Eidolons don't count as a summoned creature for that feat. So from my understanding if thats correct than, Eidolons should have no problem with casting summons.

I would say the do not stack.

Mage Armor provides a +4 AC Bonus.

Magic Vestment adds a +X encnhancement bonus to AC - so your enchanted piece of cloths at the end provides a AC bonus of (0 + X) to AC.
It is like Barkskin enhancing natual armor, but at the end you add the natural armor bonus to AC and not the enhancement bonus from barkskin.

In summary you would add up AC bonus from different sources. So you have to pick the higher one.

yeah thats basically what I thought, if anyone else has any additional input I'd be glad to hear it, as is though without anyone saying otherwise I plan to run in this way in my game.

ok, so I have a player in my game that brought up the question first of all as, "with Magical Vestment, can you use it on something like simple robes or clothes?" I assume yes and the existing robes would just count as an item with an armor bonus of +0.

Then he asked, "now if I cast Mage Armor on myself, would the two bonuses stack together? as one is an enhancement bonus to armor class and the other is an armor bonus?" to this I think no because I am under the impression enhancement just adds to a existing number.

In this current stacking example say we're using Magical Vestment CL 12, I see it as cast on robes (+0) becomes an (enhanced)armor bonus of +3, then Mage Armor is cast and being an armor bonus of +4 simply overrides the +3 because of being the same bonus type.

Anyone know for sure which way it works?

for myself so far i'm finding flaming sphere/pyrotechnics to be a good combo, you get to do some damage using your move actions while still casting anything else you need, and when you no longer have use for the sphere anymore it then becomes your fire focus for the pyrotechnics.

you can even more the sphere right before you cast to get the fire's starting point exactly where you want it.

This matter have been discused in another thread, treat each channel divinity separately for dice purpose (say 5lvls of pal and 2 of cler, when you use the pal channel, 3d6, when you channel whit the cler pool, 1d6)

The times per day also are from differents sources, the paladins must sacrifice two healing hands to channel divinity while the cleric... well, don't :P

that answered my question perfectly thanks, tried to find it in a post elsewhere but had no luck.

ok this question probably has a obvious answer but I was wondering, basicly, if your a cleric that multiclasses to paladin and your paladin level then becomes high enough to gain channel divinity do your cleric/paladin levels simply stack to determine effect and number of times per day? or are they fully calculated seperately for number of times per day and number of dice?
I remember reading under the paladins version that it says something like "treat your paladin level as your effective cleric level" or some such, sorry don't have a book on me at the moment.
anyway anyone that could help me with this it would be greatly appreciated.