Elleth wrote:
Whether or not it's overpowered to allow free spontaneous heightening is contentious at present and we won't get a better feel until the playtest. I personally believe it probably is, as it means that compared to a cleric or wizard a sorc would have a staggeringly large number of options on tap if built in any sorc of optimal way. For example, let's look at a sorc with all 9 spell slots at 4 spells of each level with the hypothetical ability to heighten freely. For the first 8 spell levels let's assume 1/4 are heightenable to every level (rather than fussing with half of them heightening every two levels or something). We would get the following number of options at each spell level:
Level 1: 4 spells
Level 2: 5 spells
Level 3: 6 spells
Level 4: 7 spells
Level 5: 8 spells
Level 6: 9 spells
Level 7: 10 spells
Level 8: 11 spells
Level 9: 12 spells
If we assumed the sorc had managed to choose options that averaged out at two new options at every level past first we'd get the following set up instead:
Level 1: 4 spells
Level 2: 6 spells
Level 3: 8 spells
Level 4: 10 spells
Level 5: 12 spells
Level 6: 14 spells
Level 7: 16 spells
Level 8: 18 spells
Level 9: 20 spells
We don't yet know the exact number of spells that heighten, so it's hard to give a better estimate here. While the lower list might be overkill in all but the most edge cases, I wouldn't be surprised to see values somewhere between the two lists. In contrast, a wizard or cleric can be expected to have closer to 3-4 different spells available at their top level (5 for a cleric with channeling up). From what we know an abusively built universalist wizard might be able to outperform a sorc in lower level casting shenanigans, but a freely heightenable endgame sorcerer would seem to have a massive advantage in options over prepared casters.
As said I can see the point of it being overpowered. And as you have said it´s difficult to judge without having it played befor so I won´t argue much about it befor having it played myself. I´d argue that in theory having all spells form one list (or acually in case of clerics)is also overpowered.
Elleth wrote:
While the thematics are slightly off with the "preparing" the spells for spontaneous heightening, I feel that's the sort of thing that might feel slightly different with a tiny bit of flavour text, like "Each day, a sorcerer can focus her mind on the tasks ahead, her magical blood granting supernatural control over two spells that will help her in the events yet to come."
To me it doesn´t really feel different when I read it but that´s probebly also due to my bias. I always thought that a sorcerers choice of spells wasn´t acually chosen by the character but those are the ones his blood gives him access to and changing known spells isn´t really posible (Which the rules state otherwise that I apperently completly locked away in my mind). It never crosed my mind (till now) that it might be different. That´s also what pushes my thoughts to a sorcerers powers are either completly flexible or locked in for the rest of his live. Thou if it´s different i have a hard time understanding why the sorcerer has a limit on his known spells and the wizard doesn´t. And befor anyone says it´s because of his spellbook why can´t the sorcerer use one the same way then?
Tangent101 wrote:
Even if the Sorcerer's Heighten Spell ability only goes to the maximum Spell Tier and can't be utilized for lower Tier slots (and that seems unlikely), they STILL would have 33 Spells available with a vast selection of 9th Tier spells compared to the Wizard.
Meanwhile, the Wizard at 18th level has 29 spells (and three or four 9th Tier spells), and with their Focus they can recast any one of those spells once. Why the heck would anyone want to play a Wizard when it's so underpowered compared to the Sorcerer?
The new system STILL has the Sorcerer with a slight edge in some ways over the Wizard. Depending on when they get the spells that Heighten, they STILL would (at 18th level) have six 9th Tier spells available... and (depending on how Heighten Spell works) potentially six 8th Tier spells, six 7th Tier spells, and so forth. They are constrained in their spell selection, but even that can be worked around through Scrolls, Wands, and Staves - and with their higher Charisma they can utilize these more frequently, though I'm sure the Wizard has other benefits that Sorcerers lack.
I don´t quite understand what you are arguing here? Are you saying the sorcerer knows more spells than the wizard? Because the answer is to that is simply no. Even if a sorcerer learns more spells per level (which i can´t find right now) the wizard can learn more spells throught the nature of spellbooks.
If you are arguing that a sorcerer has more spells he can cast at anygiven time? Yes, but that´s exactly what a spontanous caster is supposed to have as an exchange for the limited known spells. It might be to much it might not. I can´t really say that befor seeing all spells and how many have heightening.
Tangent101 wrote:
And yes, a huge spell selection slows the game down. I've stated this before. I've SEEN this before. While I think the spell selection has been cut far too much (Clerics, Wizards, and Sorcerers should get at least one extra maximum spell for each Tier), by reducing the number of spells available you speed up the game. Nor does this mean a Wizard or Sorcerer (or Cleric!) who uses up normal spells is out of luck... they can still use Cantrips and Orisons which level up. They're not as good as a spell of the same level but they can cast it several scores of times a day (in theory "infinite" but given there's 24 hours in a day, assuming six-second rounds and non-stop combat for every moment of that day it's a little over 17,000 times in that day - so not quite infinite due to how time itself works).
Well the more choices always slow down. I´d argue it doesn´t matter if it´s in a battle or at the start of a day because I have seen it in my group mostly at the start of the day for preparing spell which slowed down everything. But in my group everyone tries to think about what to do during the other players turns and do the first thing that comes to mind when it´s their turn.
