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Too bad the spiritualist plays into the old = ugly trope. Old people get a bit stomped in that regard. But on the other hand, it's in the eye of the beholder and some might find her attractive. Not to mention that every character doesn't need to be sexy in the first place. So it's a bit of win some lose some.

I gotta imagine designing Iconics are a "Damned if you do, Damn'd if you don't" type situations. Making a the Spiritualist a Milf would've lead to accusations of sexism and misogyny. Making her an older man, would lead to stereotype of casters being frail and somewhat infringe on Ezren's turf. Making her anything will ruffle someone's feathers one way or another.

The kind of Role-Model a Paladin is supposed to exemplify depends on the the culture of the area. Trying to be a Shining White Knight in a setting that has no Cultural Identity with that Archetype is a fallacy. Someone used to Western European fantasy would peg Paladins as Knight's Templar. A Japanese/Tian person, may envision an honorable Samurai when they think of what Paladin should be. However both of those types would be radically different than what a Native American/Mongol/Shaonti would picture as their LG Role-Model.

If you're from a society where smoking and drinking are sociably acceptable and non-taboo norms, I see no issues with this concept. If you're from an area with a more repressive and Puritan viewpoint on this subject, then sure I could see this character having a few issues.

Xethik wrote:

I like the old guy shooting lasers out of his eyes and rocking devil horns.

Is that supposed to be another iconic, or does the blue spell aura indicate this is a dominated foe?

Also, I want that stuffed owlbear.

I think the old lady is the Iconic Spiritualist controlling that green warrior Phantom. She also pops up in this picture. In terms of core mechanics, she's basically an occult version of the Summoner class with some Shaman King anime flare.

The Iconic Psychic and Occultist do look pretty nifty. I gotta applaud at how the Occultist is heavyset, but still looks like a total badass.

While all true, I'm philosophically against the idea of someone who is devoted to chaos being required to follow a code. If they have a code that they must abide in order to retain their powers, they should be LE, not CE.

Antipaladin's are not Chaotic Stupid. Most of them are still rational and thinking beings. The Antipaladin codes presented in ISG are more Modus Operandi for their flavor of chaos/evil than true restrictions on their actions. Outside of Rovagug, I doubt any of the "Prime Evils" would empower some mad dog who couldn't toe the line and advance their deity's cause.

*Edit:Blah, Ninja'd*

You know, when I first saw Skald in the playtest I was on the fence about it. Then I stumbled across Sovngarde Song by Miracle of Sound lastweek. After listening to that Skaldic theme song I'm fully on board the Skald hypetrain.

I wonder if I can convince my PF group to go balls to the wall with the party in our next campaign. I really want to see a party with a Skald, Bloodrager, Rage Prophet Oracle, Anger/Rage Inquisitor, Ragechemist, and a Barbarian/Viking/Wild Stalker.

[/devil hat]

I can definitely imagine fantasy situations where torturing someone for info is the most effective (though certainly not the only available) course of action.

Risking failure rather than compromising your ideals sounds like a hard choice to make.

Let's ignore the morality for a moment and talk pure game mechanics. Torture is at best going to get you what, a +2-5 circumstance bonus on Intimidation or Diplomacy to make someone talk? Then the victim gets a shot at doing an opposed Bluff versus Sense Motive to give false information. Also the victim should get a Sense Motive check to see if you're just going to kill them anyways. I think we can all at least agree that flat out killing someone because they refused to answer or gave you false information is an evil act.

If a good party can't come up with a way other than torture to solve a dilemma then I really feel sorry for them. Especially in consideration to all the truth finding steroids and spells just an Inquisitor has access to. The only reason for an Inquisitor to physically/mentally/spiritally torture someone is to RP a torturer.

Basically, you're aiming away and firing a shot just to heat up the barrel to cauterize a wound. The language is there just to make it clear that you can't shoot at an enemy first and then stop the bleeding for someone else.

Thanks everyone, really interesting discussion and some great thoughts. I like the point about the spells making torture unnecessary.

The deities aren't the Golarion gods, instead they are the Ancient Greek gods. He's an inquisitor of Hera, and I haven't decided if she's LG or LN. Are there any gods of marriage, childbirth, women etc. like her in Golarion?

Not the best fit for Hera, but the Egyptian Goddess Isis has be incorporated into Golarion. She counts Fertility, Magic, Motherhood, and Rebirth among her Areas of Concern.

There's a LG demigoddess named Falayna. Not a heavy hitter, but she's the Empyreal Lord of Femininity, Martial Training, and Rings.

I love Crowe's storyline. Gotta admit I was really surprised while reading his pregen to see that he was a follower of Desna.

I really want to read a story with Quinn, Crowe, Oloch, and Jirelle. I can imagine it now. Poor Quinn, stuck as the LG Abadaran with a CG Swashbuckler and the two CN bash brothers.

Well, there's actually an option for Inquisitors called the Torture Inquisition. They also get access to spells like Confess that damages and debufss targets if they don't answer the Inquistor's questions. Fluff-wise Inquisitors get more leeway in the tactics they choose compared to other clergy of a religion. However there are some limits depending on the Inquisitor's Alignment and what Deity they worship. For example Iomedae, the core Paladin style godess of Golarian flat out loathes people who who use "it was for the greater good" as an excuse." Shelyn hates it when people try to hide ugliness behind a beautiful veneer.

An example of Inquisitorial leeway would be Sarenrae. She's a NG angelic looking goddess of Goodness, Healing, and Redemption. Sounds all fluffy pillows and rainbows right? However some of her splinter cults do some extremely heinous things in the name of Redemption. Horrible acts such as out right Jihad, torture, and mind screwing evil people with compulsion spells to force them onto the path of goodness.
Even in her core church, if words fail to sway evil doers, pretty much anything except casual and thoughtless cruelty is permitted to make wicked people have change of heart.

An Inquisitor for most Neutral or Evil gods would pretty much have free reign to torture as long as it served a valid purpose based on their own ethos.

What's more important though is the tone of the game. If the people at the table are okay with things getting Grim Dark then in most cases torture can be fluffed away with a few Hail Mary's while the Inquisitor is refreshing his daily spells. Truth be told, an Inquisitor built for it really have no need to for an investigation to pass beyond a few harsh words and a slap across the face. They get tons fact finding steroids with Stern Gaze and Discern Lies built in as class abilities. They also have a good number of spells on their dedicated to drawing out answers.

If it makes you feel better, just fluff it off the same way Sin Eater Inquisitors do. You're purging them of their wicked sins, not stealing their souls.

No offense, but the changes to the Rogue have already been made and are coming out in the Advance Class Guide. Largely due to mechanics inherited from older DnD editions, Rogue is pretty darn schizo and has an identity issue. With one hand, it tries to be a Master of Skills, while with the other it tries to be an Assassin King. Without completly stripping down Rogue and rebuilding it, it's impossible to fix Rogues. So the solution was simple, split the Rogue into 2 new and different classes. Hence the reason for creation the skillful Investigator and the combat heavy Slayer. Also to a lesser extent, the suave Swashbuckler. These new classes serve as a chassis to further expand on Rogues with new options and archetypes.

Géraud Soulié released some of the artwork he was commissioned to do for the ACG.

From that we also know that:
Animist=Shaman
Blade Adept=Arcanist
Counterfit Mage=Rogue
Ecclesithurge=Cleric
Grave Warden=Slayer
Hex Healer=Witch{?}
Primal Hunter=Hunter
Spellstorm=Bloodrager(?)

Ah, yes. Pagent of the Peacock gives +4 to Bluff checks and then lets you use Bluff in place of any Intelligence skill check. From there you could probably use a Versatile Performance in place of Bluff to make Knowledge checks. A wee bit convoluted but unless I'm missing something, it's doable. Basically you shake your hips and convince people that you're actually an expert about what you're talking about.

I'm eagerly awaiting the next Iconic as well. I was looking forward to having something to read when I got home from work today.

The Song of the Fallen summoning a bunch of useless low-level barbarians at levels where they become extremely outscaled defeats the purpose of having them there in the first place. At best, they serve as cannonfodder. At worst, you're shorting yourself of a valuable selling item. That's not counting how it takes 10 performance rounds just to get them summmoned!.

Except for the name, the new Song of the Fallen isn't anything like the old Archetype Skald's version.

I do hope that now that the Warpriest is nerfed that it still has a place compared to the Inquisitor.

I still view Inquisitors as the Divine equivalent to Bards and Warpriests as the Divine equivalent to Magi. Bards and Inquisitors will be more skill oriented while Magus and Warpriest will have better combat options. Does a Magus still have better out of combat versatility than a Warpriest? Most likely, but the same comparison can be made between Wizards and Clerics.

Well he is my AC right now and I will have the ability to awaken him and take him as a cohort when he is level 13. Its a riding dog so i am guessing he will have 9 or 10 class levels plus racial HD.

I was thinking witch could be cool but I am worried about Somatic and material component spells as that he is a dog.

Take eschew materials and then find some Blink Dogs to train your dog. While they may be sorcerers, it is already established that Blink Dogs are capable of casting spells. You can even have a quick little RP fluff 80's style training montage

Almost all of his priests are clerics, yet barbarians, fighters, rangers, cavaliers, war-bards, and battle-druids all give thanks to Gorum and call on him in the heat of battle. If you are one of these, you value nothing so highly as glory and proving your mettle in combat. You might put your skills to the test in service of a higher ideal, as the rare metal-armored druids do, but in the end, you understand that battle is the natural state of all creatures.

Seems to me that Gorumite Druids purposely lose their powers just to prove how badass they are on the battlefield.

So let me get this straight.... You want a class with full BAB progression, full caster progression, a cherry-picked spell list, plus a companion, plus favored enemy, plus the combat styles, plus the other Ranger fluff?

An Aasimar is extremely unlikely to get a free trip into being a Devil unless they nearly obtained godhead as a force for good and then royally screwed the pooch in a spectacular way. Just being an average Joe Schmoe the Paladin who snapped and plotted the downfall of a few churches of Iomodae is enough to get you into Hell, but not to be turned into a Devil right away.

Devils are a very orderly and bureaucratic bunch who love hierarchy. Most souls freshly damned to Hell have to spend hundreds if not thousands of years climbing up the corporate ladder before they even get a tiny bit of devil power. Also except in a few rare cases, becoming an Erinyes is pretty much reserved for full blooded Angels and other Celestials who fall in an orderly fashion.
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Man, the more I look at that artwork, the more I love it. So many awesome details

Yea, I've always loved how detailed that many of the characters in Pathfinder art tend to be. It's what originally drew me into jumping the fence to play Pathfinder. The layering of their outfits and equipment always made it seemed like these were people actually fully stocked and prepared to handle anything that crosses their path.

This is the one class I'm most excited about, and I love this background and the art.

It took me a second, but the item hanging from the chain at Quinn's belt MUST be a nod to Diogenes. The image and Quinn's motivations are just too perfect for that to be coincidental.

Ah, I totally missed that lantern, but it definitely fits Quinn's background.

Wowzas, Quinn just instantly became my favorite Iconic. I love that sword cane. Takes a certain amount of swagger to pull one of those off with out looking like a total wanker. I really enjoyed playing an Investigator during an ACG playtest. It felt great playing a more analytical character instead of the standard Murder Hobo. I loved that they broke schizo Rogue up into the killer Slayer and the skillful Investigator while still making them feel like meaningful classes.

May want to consider Spear Dancer.

I'm sure there are depictions of the deities as various races. We have white, black, and inbetween Santa Clause's and Jesus' in artwork. Golarion probably has a similar practice.

Yes, in the of the physical descriptions for gods they often state that other cultures depict them differently. For example, even though Cayden Caileen was a Human in life, Halflings still envision him as a Halfling in their artwork and stories. In Tian, Abadar is usually depicted as an Asian looking man with golden robes and a fu manchu instead of a Caucasian in golden armor and goatee Naturally in the European/Mediterranean-esque Inner Sea region where most Pathfinder APs take place, the few gods normally shown in Human form tend to be white looking.

This looks a bit too renaissance style too me, even for a pirate.

Hope this is not a bad omen for the future, since the class seemed pretty good so far. Like in the sense that we don´t see a shift to too much renaissance stuff ingame.

Considering that Jirelle hangs around Taldor I'd say the style is pretty appropriate. Taldor tends to be a hodgepodge blending of western European countries like Italy and France

I'm intimidated by mythic Ezren. He's the old, scholar, wimpy dude, and yet look at him: he's pumped. Biceps of steel.

I'm glad that Ezren turned into a Muscle Wizard. I can't imagine anyone, even a scholar, not bulking up a bit after doing as much adventuring as it takes to get to Mythic level.

Rathendar wrote:

Reiko of White Wave wrote:

I'm allergic to arrows in my chest.

Aren't most of us?

Amiri doesn't appear to be, nor Sajan. Lucky. ಠ_ಠ

Amiri could shrug them off and Sajan can at least can deflect them. Poor Seltyiel is constantly flashing his delicate skin.

Sweet Barleybrew! I love your style Jirelle and I'm sure I'll love to hear more about your future exploits.

Dextrous scrappers with flair have always been favorite character type. I enjoyed playing a Swashbuckler in a oneshot playtest for the ACG. Can't wait to get my hands on the final version of the book.