In the electric eel's description, it casually mentions it breathes air instead of water, however it doesn't mention anything in its stat block about a hold breath ability like what crocodiles and dolphins have. Such an ability would technically be a misnomer for an electric eel since they don't possess true lungs, but I'll just say Google it if you're curious to learn more. Nevertheless, when active or hunting, an electric eel needs to return to the surface for air rather frequently, usually every 2 minutes. When at rest, however, they can go for 10 to 15 minutes in between fresh breaths.
This is likely why the electric eel doesn't have the aquatic subtype. BECAUSE OF THAT, the electric eel animal companion stats at the bottom of this page shouldn't list the amphibious special quality. Amphibious is only applied to aquatic-subtype creatures (which the electric eel isn't), and such creatures breathe both air and water (and electric eels can't do the latter). This is more of that pesky boring-realism sneaking into my swords-and-sorcery game, so I understand why the amphibious quality was listed here to simplify things.
Currently going through the errata document to add Base-Statistics-when-not-raging to the unchained versions of the various barbarians when I noticed that Hucker's Base Statistics section we said to add earlier in this thread had an error in it. CMD was listed as being 21 when not raging, but in fact it should remain 23 since the loss of Strength is offset by AC losing that -2 penalty while raging. I marked it for deletion in a month in the errata doc.
Pg. 154 - Jaagrath Kreeg
Same with Jaagrath. An earlier post in this thread added base statistics information and erroneously mentioned CMD which should remain constant whether raging or not. Marking for deletion in the errata thread.
Pg. 328 - Abominable Snowmen
And again with the abominable snowmen. CMD should not be mentioned in the base statistics section we said to add earlier in this thread. Marking for deletion in the errata thread.
Currently going through the errata document to add Base-Statistics-when-not-raging to the unchained versions of the various barbarians when I noticed that Hucker's Base Statistics section we said to add earlier in this thread had an error in it. CMD was listed as being 21 when not raging, but in fact it should remain 23 since the loss of Strength is offset by AC losing that -2 penalty while raging. I marked it for deletion in a month in the errata doc.
Pg. 154 - Jaagrath Kreeg
Same with Jaagrath. An earlier post in this thread added base statistics information and erroneously mentioned CMD which should remain constant whether raging or not. Marking for deletion in the errata thread.
Currently going through the errata document to add Base-Statistics-when-not-raging to the unchained versions of the various barbarians when I noticed that Hucker's Base Statistics section we said to add earlier in this thread had an error in it. CMD was listed as being 21 when not raging, but in fact it should remain 23 since the loss of Strength is offset by AC losing that -2 penalty while raging. I marked it for deletion in a month in the errata doc.
I posted this just now on the errata document, but wanted to list it here also:
Ven’s challenge rating, and therefore XP reward, is technically incorrect. As a 7th level commoner with absolutely no gear, Ven’s CR should actually be 4 by the rules instead of 2 as is listed. This would also mean his XP reward is 1,200.
That being said, I think this is one error that should be ignored. Even though his CR is technically incorrect, it’s probably better to list him still at CR 2 for the sake of the adventure. He is, after all, not trying to kill the PCs unless he has to defend his own life against them, and he is a commoner which in my opinion should have had a rule that such NPCs should be level–3 for CR rather than level–2 like the other NPC classes. Also his story XP award for dealing with his encounter tactfully and diplomatically shouldn’t be less than the XP gained for killing him. This is a tangent, but it’s possible the designers intentionally calculated his CR as if he were a creature with racial HD having levels added to it instead of class-based like humans always are. If so, they would have treated him as a creature with 0 racial HD (and start at a fictional CR 0), then added 7 levels in commoner which, because the commoner class isn’t linked to combat, spell, skill, or special roles for monsters, would mean CR goes up by 1 for every 2 levels added, rounded down. This would put him at CR 3, and then knock another rating point off for having no gear which would match up with the listed CR 2. Obviously this isn’t RAW, but I’d let it slide honestly.
In addition to what we've already mentioned about Galenmir, he's missing his +8 racial bonus to Stealth checks in rocky terrain like the others I've mentioned above, but he's also got 5 unspent skill points. A GM can spend these anywhere, including putting all 5 into any of his listed skills if they wish since the most ranks he has spent in a skill is 8, and he's 16 HD.
Doesn't mention her Stealth bonus because she hasn't spent ranks, but the standard formatting says it should get mentioned since it has a conditional racial modifier for it. At the end of her skills, add "Stealth -2 (+6 in rocky terrain)."
Just like Barl Breakbones, Teraktinus's stat block has an issue with his racial bonus to Stealth, but rather than missing, it's miscalculated. It's only listed as a +4 bonus when it should be +8. Change his Stealth bonus from "+6 (+10 in rocky terrain)" to "+6 (+14 in rocky terrain)".
Sorry for Necro-ing, but I don't see this question anywhere, and maybe I'm just not picking up an obvious answer (or not finding the answer in the forums).
The Pukwudgie in Bestiary 3, has Command Undead listed as an At Will SLA.
It's description of the Spawn Undead Special Ability says, "...against a pukwudgie’s control undead spell-like ability."
Command Undead and Control Undead are two separate spells. Control Undead is not listed as an SLA for the Pukwudgie. I can *assume* that Command Undead being a 2nd-level spell, is more likely to be an At Will ability for the creature, and default to it since that is what is actually listed as the SLA.
HOWEVER...Spawn Undead creates Zombies, which are unintelligent undead. Unintelligent undead do not get a save against Command Undead. So, there's no point in having zombies spawned by the Pukwudgie suffer a -4 Penalty to their saves. That leads to the assumption that it's supposed to be Control Undead instead.
So, is the creature supposed to have Control Undead, or Command Undead? Or...is it supposed to have both (Command as an At Will, and Control as x/Day)?
First of all, since Paizo obliterated the individual product discussion threads that used to be located on each product's individual description page on the old version of the website, these forum posts here are the only logical place to ask these questions, and it's a good idea to have one master post, like this one, that contains everything for each book. So no worries about thread necromancy as that's not a thing in these cases.
Second, this is an amazing catch. I'm inclined to think that the wrong spell was referenced in the ability's description, as even adding control undead as a 1/day SLA is insane since the pukwudgie's only other 1/day SLA is nondetection, 4 spell-levels lower than control undead. So it should probably be command undead, and if you wanted to add a feature to replace the note about the Will save penalty that's a moot point for zombies, I guess a good House rule/compromise could be that the spell is cast at +1 caster level on zombies that were created by the pukwudgie's spawn undead ability.
I'm not sure if erratas are still been made here but...
Why is the Mythic Power ability (Su) by itself ?
Since it is, it means that other mythic abilities, like Force of Will, which is (Ex), and has only effect when spending mythic power, cannot be used in an AMF, and is, thus, technically (Su). I suppose that's not the intent ?
I'm not even sure I'm not making thread necromancy here, though.
First of all, since Paizo obliterated the individual product discussion threads that used to be located on each product's individual description page on the old version of the website, these forum posts here are the only logical place to ask these questions, and it's a good idea to have one master post, like this one, that contains everything for each book. So no worries about thread necromancy as that's not a thing in these cases. If anything my reply to you 5 years after the fact is thread necromancy since I'm not reporting something.
Second, that is an interesting catch. Looking at similar abilities that grant a pool of points that can be spent to perform other actions, this isn't uncommon. The psychic's phrenic pool ability and the bloodrager's bloodrage ability does this. The arcanist's arcane reservoir ability is also like this except it has additional features the pool allows points to be spent on that is described in the ability description, and therefore the (Su) could be referring to points spent that way. It makes me wonder if all of these abilities should change from (Su) to instead say (Ex, Sp, or Su) with a sentence added at the end of each saying the ability type is determined by the ability the point is being spent on to use...but even that feels like it breaks the feel for how this should work—an AMF SHOULD block use of fantastical powers that are performed by drawing power from some mystical reservoir of energy fluff, it just means weird situations where abilities that are entirely mundane that rely on these pools of power to function can't be used.
It's been brought up once or twice already in this thread, but creatures with the giant subtype have a design issue with their weapon proficiencies that's persisted since the first Bestiary.
The Short(ish) Explanation...:
The short explanation is that back in 3.5, giants were their own creature type and had their own rules for what weapon and armor proficiencies they automatically got. They got automatic proficiency with all simple and martial weapons, and proficiency with whatever category of armor they were wearing in their stat block from the Monster Manual or whatever book they were introduced in, as well as any lighter categories (so if they were wearing heavy armor, they were proficient with that category as well as light and medium armor, also). In Pathfinder, they became humanoids with the giant subtype, and in that conversion they lost automatic proficiency with martial weapons. The designers in the first Bestiary mostly accounted for this by giving the various true-giants in that book appropriate Martial Weapon Proficiency feats, but other giants like ettins, cyclopes, and ogres didn't get those feats despite their stat block showing they would be needed. Later Bestiaries were hit-and-miss when it came to remembering this rule, resulting in half of the books having giants with Martial Weapon Proficiency feats and half of them leaving them out.
A House rule I use to help this...:
(Side note as a House rule in my games, I decided that it was better to give giants a benefit with weapons similar to how they treat armor proficiencies. They get proficiency with all simple weapons plus whatever weapon their "flagship" stat block lists them as wielding. So since the fire giant's primary stat block in the Bestiary wields a greatsword, then all fire giants have proficiency with greatswords. This frees me up to switch out that Martial Weapon Proficiency feat with something else. To me this is better than just giving all giants a blanket proficiency with all martial weapons, as it avoids making the storm giant's militant ability and the cave giant's axe wielder ability useless.)
Anyway, I bring this up because it was recently brought to my attention that two groups of giants in RotRL have problems with their ARMOR, not their weapons (though there are plenty with problems there which I'll be mentioning at the end of this). My House rule above doesn't really fix this issue since a giant's armor proficiencies are spelled out clearly and these creatures will need a fix to be compatible with the rules.
* Cloud Giants (pgs. 346, 356, & 360): Their primary stat block from the Bestiary lists them in light armor, and so they would need to replace two feats with ones that will grant them proficiency to wear their full plate—Medium Armor Proficiency and Heavy Armor Proficiency. I ended up replacing Improved Overrun and Intimidating Prowess in my game.
* Storm Giants (pgs. 350 & 365): Their primary stat block from the Bestiary lists them in medium armor, and so they would need to replace one of their feats with Heavy Armor Proficiency in order to wear their full plate. I ended up replacing Improved Sunder.
Finally, as mentioned there's other giants who are missing their weapon proficiency feats needed to use their listed weapons. If you adopt my House rule above, you can ignore these. Otherwise you can replace an existing feat with the following proficiency feats...
* Ogres (pgs. 149, 150, 151 [x2], 153, 154, 157, 166, 178, & 405 [x3]): missing Martial Weapon Proficiency (greatclub).
* Ettins (pgs. 165 & 405): missing Martial Weapon Proficiency (light flail).
* Ogre Mage (pg. 327): missing Martial Weapon Proficiency (greatsword) and Martial Weapon Proficiency (longbow).
* Rune Giants (pgs. 351, 356, 365, & 405): missing Martial Weapon Proficiency (longsword).
* Lokansir, the jotunblood hill giant (pg. 218): This has already been mentioned in this thread, but Lokansir is missing his Martial Weapon Proficiency (greatclub) feat. Technically as stated earlier in this thread and in the errata, he's missing 3 feats total if you convert his jotunblood template to the updated one from the PF edition of Advanced Bestiary, so one of these slots could be used to select the feat (or something else if you decide to adopt my House rule). Otherwise you would need to swap something out, like Staggering Critical.
Finally, if you DO decide to adopt my House rule above, then feel free to go to the following monsters and ADD a feat of your choosing to replace the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat that would be redundant in these creatures' stat blocks...
Hucker Graul's During Combat section says the following:
Hucker Graul During Combat wrote:
Hucker rages on the first round of combat and sends his rats to attack the PCs while he delays so he can move into a flanking position once the rats go.
It's worth pointing out that based on the text above, Hucker can't delay his action until round 2 since all of his actions in round 1 are used:
* Move action #1: Use Handle Animal to instruct Chuckles to attack.
* Move action #2: Use Handle Animal to instruct Drooler to attack.
* Free action: Rage.
Since Chuckles and Drooler aren't animal companions, Hucker can only issue commands as a move action to each one (and the text of Handle Animal specifies its used to issue commands to a single creature—whether this was intentional or not is up for debate, but that's RAW). At least Hucker won't need to roll, since his Handle Animal bonus of +9 means he'll auto-pass even with a roll of 1, and it makes sense that if he taught them any trick, it would be attack. So all he'd be left with is a 5-foot step or free actions in terms of something else he could do that round. Also the order above is the only way possible, since when a barbarian rages they can't perform most Charisma-based skill checks (such as Handle Animal). This means that if he wants them to do something other than attack, he'll need to drop out of rage first which he's unlikely to do.
We're at a new page to this thread, so for any overwhelmed newcomers checking out this thread that skipped to the last page, here's a link to the master-errata doc for the Anniversary Edition of Rise of the Runelords.
It was recently pointed out to me that because Karzoug's arcane bond is with his glaive, and because the glaive is floating around and not actually being held by Karzoug, he would technically need to roll concentration checks each time he casts a spell (DC 20+spell level) or risk losing the spell. Because his concentration bonus is +33, however, he would auto-pass any such roll. Remember that concentration checks aren't subject to the auto-fail and auto-pass rules of nat 1s and nat 20s like skills and saves are.
Grazuul's +1 vicious adamantine trident is missing the bonus damage from the vicious weapon quality in the melee line. It should be changed from "(2d6+14/19-20)" to "(2d6+14 plus 2d6/19-20)". This is the typical formatting for this kind of extra damage, such as with the vampire skulks on page 331.
Someone correctly pointed out to me that the sinspawn axemen on this page were missing their ability score adjustments for having class levels added, and so I reverse engineered the stat block to see if anything else was amiss and found a number of things. A previous correction already stated that the During Combat section should say Power Attack increases damage by +6 instead of +4 since the greataxe is a two-handed weapon (however, the natural attacks will still be just a +4 bonus), but the following corrections are also needed:
- Speed should be 40 ft. due to armor training 1.
- Wrathful bite in the melee line should be changed to sinful bite, which is what its name was changed to after 3.5 D&D.
- The melee line is missing the bite-and-2-claws information that should be listed when the axeman isn't wielding its axe.
- As mentioned, the sinspawn needs the following adjustments divided amongst its six ability scores for gaining class levels: +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, -2.
- CMD should be 21. This will change again depending on how you decide to adjust the creature's ability scores as mentioned above. My guess is that the designer accidentally copied over the +1 bonus to CMB thanks to Runeforge's bonuses to sinners when they were calculating CMD.
The following is a fully corrected stat block with the ability score adjustments in the 4th correction I mentioned above arranged in the following way: Str +4, Dex +2, Con +4, Int +0, Wis +2, Cha -2:
Sinspawn Axemen corrected stats:
Sinspawn Axemen (6) XP 3,200 each
CR 7
Sinspawn fighter 5
NE Medium aberration
Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft., sin-scent; Perception +12
DEFENSE AC 23, touch 13, flat-footed 20 (+8 armor, +2 Dex, +1 dodge, +2 natural)
hp 85 (8 HD; 3d8+5d10+45)
Fort +10, Ref +5, Will +7; +1 vs. fear
Defensive Abilities bravery +1; Immune mind-affecting effects; SR 13
OFFENSE Speed 40 ft.
Melee+1 greataxe +15/+10 (1d12+10/x3), bite +7 (1d6+2 plus sinful bite) or bite +12 (1d6+4 plus sinful bite), 2 claws +12 (1d4+4)
Special Attacks weapon training (axes +1)
TACTICS During Combat The sinspawn move to intercept intruders and prevent anyone from engaging the warriors of wrath for as long as they can hold the line. They always use Power Attack in combat (taking a -2 penalty on attacks to deal +4 damage with their natural attacks and +6 damage with their greataxes).
Morale The sinspawn fight to the death.
STATISTICS Str 18, Dex 15, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 10
Base Atk +7; CMB +12; CMD 24
Feats Cleave, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Toughness, Weapon Focus (greataxe), Weapon Specialization (greataxe)
Skills Intimidate +12, Perception +12, Stealth +12
Languages Thassilonian
SQ armor training 1, martial proficiency
Gear+2 breastplate, +1 greataxe
SPECIAL ABILITIES Martial Proficiency (Ex) Sinspawn are proficient in all simple and martial weapons, armor, and shields (except tower shields). These axemen's fighter levels grant them proficiency in tower shields, however.
Sin-Scent (Su) gain scent ability against creatures whose nature reflects the sinspawn’s sin. For example, wrathful sinspawn can scent creatures using rage effects. The GM should adjudicate what creatures a particular sinspawn can scent.
Sinful Bite (Su) A creature bitten by a sinspawn is overwhelmed with sinful thoughts (DC 11 Will save negates). These emotions are so powerful that the target becomes sickened for 1d6 minutes. An affected target that is bitten a second time is staggered for 1 round if it fails its saving throw. Calm emotions, remove curse, or break enchantment negates the effects of sinful bite. The save DC is Charisma-based. This is a mind-affecting effect.
Just discovered this thread, so I apologize if something I'm about to say was already covered. Currently the issues I'm having with the new layout are:
1) Inability to access old product discussion threads. This is a huge one for me. Maya, you and I have already discussed this in another part of the forum (which was deleted), but I'm referring to how each individual product page on the old version of the store used to have a forum area at the bottom for people to discuss it. Since the new style of the store doesn't have this, this is now an outdated feature but for a while, the forum link to get to the subforum for all those product discussion threads was still available (however clicking on any individual thread therein just redirected you back to the Paizo home page). Now it seems since I brought this up a few months ago, that link to the subforum has been removed. This suggests to me that Paizo's idea here is that this was the plan all along, and that there's no plans to restore or archive those old product discussion threads for public perusal. The reason those threads were important to me is because I like to hunt for community-sourced errata to update my books with, and those threads were a great source of people pointing out things they noticed wrong in a given book. Official errata is all well and good, but unless your name is Adventurer's Armory, no official errata was ever released for non-Core RPG series books and it was up to the community to find and share errors they found.
2) Missing products. Didn't notice before but the product pages for We Be Goblins! and We Be Goblins, Too! are missing. The product description for We Be Goblins, Free! mentions these two products and has links embedded within for them, but clicking on either takes you to a 404 page. There may be more like this, but those two were brought to my attention specifically so I had to see for myself.
(This is a repost of an earlier post because I found an error in my stats, so I'm adding this post so I can change the link in the errata doc.)
Pg. 289 - Variant Ochre Jellies
This partial stat block really isn't doing justice to the full extent of the changes made to these 4 oozes. In addition to the few alterations they mention here to keep in mind when referencing the ochre jelly stats in the first Bestiary, page 287 of this book also mentions additional features that are removed and added. For easy reference, here are the full stats for these creatures with brand new names to better reflect what they are.
** spoiler omitted **...
It just dawned on me that the blood-, phlegm-, and melancholy-based ooze abilities of the same name for these creatures should be listed as emotion effects as well as mind-affecting. The choler-based ooze is fine as is since its signature ability just deals additional acid damage rather than instilling some kind of psychosis in its victims.
A few updates for Kibb I added to the errata doc. These are more errors of omission rather than math errors and have more to do with how Paizo wrote out animal companion stat blocks for 1E. I actually had no idea that ranger animal companions got their masters' favored enemy and favored terrain bonuses until I spotted that fact on a whim while reading through the ranger description. Suddenly, I'm now realizing how much of a hit ranger animal companions take when their masters decide to take an archetype that replaces either or both of these class features.
Anyway, Kibb's stat block should probably be updated with the following:
- Add a Special Attacks line with "favored enemy (dragons +2, giants +4)".
- In the SQ line, add "favored terrain "(forest +2, mountain +4)". Note that based on both their descriptions and the map on page 396, the Graul farm/homestead is located in a forest, while Fort Rannick is located in a valley in the mountains.
- Kibb's known tricks aren't listed. He should have 8. I personally chose attack (all), defend, down, fetch, heel, stay, and track. If your count is off, remember that attack (all) counts as 2 tricks.
In speaking of the throwing shield, it's been included in the thrown fighter weapon group. Since it's a shield modification for a light or heavy shield, it stands to reason it would also maintain its status as a close weapon, however it doesn't get listed in the close fighter weapon group and the Archives of Nethys page for the item doesn't list it either.
In speaking of the throwing shield, it's been included in the thrown weapon fighter weapon group. Since it's a shield modification for a light or heavy shield, it stands to reason it would also maintain its status as a close weapon, however it doesn't get listed in the close weapon fighter group and the Archives of Nethys page for the item doesn't list it either.
(This turned out longer than I planned, so I put the key points in bold)
This shield mod has some weird issues when you look at its stats and examine its evolution throughout the different books it appeared in. Originally, this was presented in Adventurer's Armory as a modification for a light shield or a heavy shield, and the only thing it really added was a feature that allowed a wearer to unclasp it as a free action instead of a move action (though the Equipment Trick feat later in that book seemed to imply that another unmentioned benefit of this modification was that throwing such a shield wasn't considered an improvised ranged weapon any longer). The shield it was attached to otherwise functioned exactly the same.
Then in Ultimate Combat and Ultimate Equipment, the throwing shield got reprinted in these books. Its description remained the same, but its table entry got some notable updates including:
- It's now an exotic ranged weapon, meaning throwing such a shield without a penalty requires the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (throwing shield) feat. Listing it officially within a weapons table removes any ambiguity about whether it's an improvised weapon (it isn't).
- It was given a proper range increment value of 20 ft., rather than the 10 ft. most assumed based on the typical rules for unspecified thrown weapons.
- It was given the performance and trip special qualities.
- It was given damage values, with throwing shields for Small creatures dealing 1d4 bludgeoning damage and throwing shields for Medium creatures dealing 1d6 bludgeoning damage.
It's the parts in bold above that cause some confusion here. Based on the way the item is written in the table, it would look like a throwing shield is now a unique, new shield/weapon. In Ranged Tactics Toolbox, the last 1E book where this item shows up, they even included an illustration of it on the inside back cover. The price, however, is still listed as +50 gp, meaning it's still being presented as a modification to go on a light or heavy shield. The description backs this up by saying tower shields can't be made into throwing shields. So based on the table entry, does this mean that a light throwing shield and a heavy throwing shield both do the same damage? For that matter, does the heavy shield have the same range increment as the light shield? These both seem very unusual. Also, are those damage values only when throwing the shield? What about bashing? Does the damage apply to bashing also or do you use the base shield's bashing damage (and how does that make sense?)? Finally, the update in later books giving it the trip property seems to imply that it can be used as a trip weapon when thrown. That's not too unusual, as the aklys is similar, but it does have some weird inconsistencies when comparing it to the aforementioned Equipment Trick feat from Adventurer's Armory (when the throwing shield lacked that special property).
Here's a breakdown on how tripping gets weird.
- Throwing shields now have the trip property. It doesn't say that the trip property can be used when the shield is thrown, but I think most people would infer that. For comparison, the aklys is a melee weapon that can be thrown and has the trip property and specifically states in its description that the weapon can be used to trip when thrown, avoiding any rule ambiguity.
- If the weapon can be used to trip when thrown, then the rules for tripping say you can trip an opponent up to one size category larger than you. These rules make no distinction about melee-trip attempts vs. ranged trip-attempts (I double checked to see if the Core Rulebook had any ranged trip weapons, and sure enough the bolas appeared in that book). The Equipment Trick (shield) feat from Adventurer's Armory, however, has an ability called break ground which allows any shield, including throwing shields specifically, to be used to trip a target when thrown, however using this trick requires THREE(!) feats, can only be used on creatures UP TO your size category, and seemingly does nothing extra. It has one added "benefit" of the creature treating the square the shield was thrown in (their square) as difficult terrain, but seeing as how difficult terrain only hampers a creature moving into it and not out of it, this added benefit is useless.
(This turned out longer than I planned, so I put the key points in bold)
This shield mod has some weird issues when you look at its stats and examine its evolution throughout the different books it appeared in. Originally, this was presented in Adventurer's Armory as a modification for a light shield or a heavy shield, and the only thing it really added was a feature that allowed a wearer to unclasp it as a free action instead of a move action (though the Equipment Trick feat later in that book seemed to imply that another unmentioned benefit of this modification was that throwing such a shield wasn't considered an improvised ranged weapon any longer). The shield it was attached to otherwise functioned exactly the same.
Then in Ultimate Combat and Ultimate Equipment, the throwing shield got reprinted in these books. Its description remained the same, but its table entry got some notable updates including:
- It's now an exotic ranged weapon, meaning throwing such a shield without a penalty requires the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (throwing shield) feat. Listing it officially within a weapons table removes any ambiguity about whether it's an improvised weapon (it isn't).
- It was given a proper range increment value of 20 ft., rather than the 10 ft. most assumed based on the typical rules for unspecified thrown weapons.
- It was given the performance and trip special qualities.
- It was given damage values, with throwing shields for Small creatures dealing 1d4 bludgeoning damage and throwing shields for Medium creatures dealing 1d6 bludgeoning damage.
It's the parts in bold above that cause some confusion here. Based on the way the item is written in the table, it would look like a throwing shield is now a unique, new shield/weapon. In Ranged Tactics Toolbox, the last 1E book where this item shows up, they even included an illustration of it on the inside back cover. The price, however, is still listed as +50 gp, meaning it's still being presented as a modification to go on a light or heavy shield. The description backs this up by saying tower shields can't be made into throwing shields. So based on the table entry, does this mean that a light throwing shield and a heavy throwing shield both do the same damage? For that matter, does the heavy shield have the same range increment as the light shield? These both seem very unusual. Also, are those damage values only when throwing the shield? What about bashing? Does the damage apply to bashing also or do you use the base shield's bashing damage (and how does that make sense?)? Finally, the update in later books giving it the trip property seems to imply that it can be used as a trip weapon when thrown. That's not too unusual, as the aklys is similar, but it does have some weird inconsistencies when comparing it to the aforementioned Equipment Trick feat from Adventurer's Armory (when the throwing shield lacked that special property).
Here's a breakdown on how tripping gets weird.
- Throwing shields now have the trip property. It doesn't say that the trip property can be used when the shield is thrown, but I think most people would infer that. For comparison, the aklys is a melee weapon that can be thrown and has the trip property and specifically states in its description that the weapon can be used to trip when thrown, avoiding any rule ambiguity.
- If the weapon can be used to trip when thrown, then the rules for tripping say you can trip an opponent up to one size category larger than you. These rules make no distinction about melee-trip attempts vs. ranged trip-attempts (I double checked to see if the Core Rulebook had any ranged trip weapons, and sure enough the bolas appeared in that book). The Equipment Trick (shield) feat from Adventurer's Armory, however, has an ability called break ground which allows any shield, including throwing shields specifically, to be used to trip a target when thrown, however using this trick requires THREE(!) feats, can only be used on creatures UP TO your size category, and seemingly does nothing extra. It has one added "benefit" of the creature treating the square the shield was thrown in (their square) as difficult terrain, but seeing as how difficult terrain only hampers a creature moving into it and not out of it, this added benefit is useless.
Whether or not you succeed, as long as your shield remains where you threw it, the opponent treats that square as difficult terrain until he moves out of the square.
The problem with this is that difficult terrain only hampers an opponent moving into it, not out of it. This feature of the ability is effectively useless. A GM would need to decide if the discarded shield either causes difficult terrain for that opponent moving back into it, or possibly ANY opponent that moves into that square.
This item is a revised version of one found in the Rise of the Runelords adventure path. One of the changes made to this item was the description's wording for how many attacks the talons of Leng grant their wearer. It went from "two natural claw attacks" to "a natural claw attack with each hand". As written, a creature with multiple arms with these would be granted a claw attack for all of their arms, not just the first two, and that was probably not the intent since these are physical items that must be slipped onto an appendage as opposed to something like an amulet of mighty fists that just affects all natural attacks of the wearer. A GM would therefore need to decide for such creatures whether multiple worn talons of Leng sets would mean additional reductions to Wisdom or if the -2 is a flat reduction that doesn't stack with itself.
Just made a slight correction to the talons of Leng in the errata document. My original wording, as written, said you get two claw attacks for EACH claw, making it seem like you get 4 attacks with them. It should have read as "a claw attack for each". While correcting this errata, I realized that the updated description for these talons from Ultimate Equipment is phrased in a way that suggests that a multi-armed creature using these would get a claw attack for each of their arms instead of just the first two. This was likely not the intent, and so I redid my correction in the errata document to change the entire first paragraph to better match the description from Ultimate Equipment, but also added text suggesting that multi-armed creatures would need additional talons of Leng if they wish to have claw attacks for their other arms. If you agree with me that that's RAI, you'll need to decide whether the reduction to Wisdom for wearing these would stack with itself in the case of multiple talons of Leng being worn.
In addition to the errors we've already discussed in this threat and notated in the errata document, it was pointed out that these creatures aren't technically proficient in heavy armor per RAW. Therefore, make the following additional changes:
- Change initiative to "-6". (an earlier correction said to change this to "+0", but with the armor check penalty this results in a net penalty of "-6")
- Change the attack bonus to the slam attacks to "+10". Keep in mind this (as well as damage) goes up by another +1 if the zombie is within 20 feet of the Headless Lord. (note that in the errata doc, I discussed how it isn't certain whether the rules for zombies [and fast zombies] would mean a hill giant zombie should stick with 2 slams or get 3 slams [plus an extra one for the fast zombie's quick strikes ability]. Since we're reducing their attack bonuses by a whopping -6 here, I'm inclined to interpret the rules to give them more strikes.)
- Change the CMB from "+18" to "+12". Remember this increases by +1 if the zombie is within 20 feet of the Headless Lord.
These animals are labeled as donkey rats and specified as variant dire rats. Donkey rats already have official stats on page 117 of Ultimate Magic, which has them listed at CR 1/4. The donkey rats here should therefore become a new animal, perhaps giant donkey rats.
It is absolutely amazing that you continue to provide updates to this AP. A huge thank you for keeping this project alive. I haven't ran this in years, but there seems to always be a lurking inkling of running this again soon (tm).
Again... THANK YOU!!!
You're welcome! At this point it's become an obsession. I'm still getting caught up on getting my 1E library completed and adding updates and corrections and every once in awhile I'll spot another for this product.
These animals are labeled as donkey rats and specified as variant dire rats. Donkey rats already have official stats on page 117 of Ultimate Magic, which has them listed at CR 1/4. The donkey rats here should therefore become a new animal, perhaps giant donkey rats.
Something I just noticed is that this archetype glosses over how the rules for donning and removing a shield work with the throw shield ability gained at 3rd level. The Equipment Trick (shield) feat from Adventurer's Armory has an assortment of neat tricks you can do with a shield and the right feats but explicitly mentions that you have to be holding the shield rather than wearing it.
So for the shield champion, does this mean that each time he wants to throw his shield he needs to use a move action to stop wearing it first (and therefore couldn't use it as part of a thrown shield flurry at later levels in that same round)? One way around this would be to either get a quickdraw light shield or, more likely for shield champions using a heavy shield, pay for the throwing shield exotic weapon quality so that it can be unclasped as a free action, however donning it again once it's back in your hands would still be a move action. This would burn a feat slot however to take exotic weapon proficiency (throwing shield), and there's that weird issue where for 2 levels throwing a shield deals more damage than a shield bash since the throwing shield deals more damage than a standard shield's bash damage (until the brawler hits level 5 and gets close weapon mastery and it evens out).
This all just feels clunkier than the designers may have intended, or maybe this is exactly how they pictured it. As it stands now, however, a shield champion that throws his shield and has it ricochet back to him would be denied his shield bonus to AC until he takes a move action to don it again. This doesn't seem like too much to ask, but I have a feeling that the lack of explanation about this means a lot of shield champion PCs don't remember these often-forgotten rules about donning and removing shields and have just assumed that shields can be thrown and caught in the same round with no additional actions needed and no change to their AC.
This archetype replaces all instances of the ranger's favored enemy class feature, but doesn't replace the capstone ability at 20th level, Master Hunter, which requires favored enemy to function properly.
This is no longer an issue with the release of Chronicle of Legends with new capstone abilities introduced.
I was looking through this and noticed the Promising trait, which grants a +1 trait bonus to AC after a full night's rest that lasts until the character is first hit that day, as long as they're wearing armor or carrying a shield.
How does a trait bonus to AC apply to flat-footed or touch AC? Or does it not? Does it apply to one and not the other?
The armor/shield caveat implies it might apply to flat-footed but not touch, but it doesn't explicitly mention it and it seems to be a bonus being granted because of the character's well-rested mind rather than something coming from their gear directly.
Added a note to the errata doc about Ripnugget's warchanter having a feat that's useless to him since he's using a short sword instead of a dogslicer. You could switch it with whatever you want, but I recommended switching it out for Improved Initiative to give Ripnugget a better chance of getting buffed with inspire courage before he has his first turn. The warchanter's Initiative bonus would increase to "+8".
Change the bonus from trap sense from "+3" to "+2". I also added non-raging stats for him on the errata doc.
Hello! I've a question about Hucker's hit points. As written in the book, he has 94 HP (7 HD; 1d12 + 6d8 + 55) while raging. Your note in the errata says he has 92 HP when he's not raging, but shouldn't his base be 80 HP (94 - 2*7HD)? Or am I missing something?
Thanks for all your hard work on this, btw!
You are 100% correct! I think my brain was switched off, I saw he had a single level of barbarian, and so I reduced hit points as if he was a 1st level character instead of a 7th level character. Updating now!
* Unchained PROS:
~ Stat changes from raging are easier to calculate on the fly.
~ Temporary hit points from raging are lost first so there's no danger of dying when ending the rage.
~ If you spend more than 5 rounds raging, you're fatigued for a shorter amount of time than the standard barbarian.
~ Barbarians with Weapon Finesse are now viable.
~ Less rule-ambiguity when it comes to undead barbarians and if their bonus to Con translates to a bonus to Cha instead (which in turn prevents their other Cha-based abilities from increasing).
~ Many rage powers are not more powerful than before.
OOPS! That should say NOW more powerful. Proofread your posts people!
NOTE: I'm going to be adding an update to the master errata doc for any GMs that wish to upgrade the various barbarians, monks, and rogues throughout the adventure into their unchained versions from Pathfinder Unchained (there aren't any summoners, but I'll include a note about them just to make this complete). I'm making this post so I can add a link to the document for any GM wishing to upgrade those NPCs into their unchained versions, and they'd like one comprehensive post that details all of the differences between each version.
For those GMs that came here from the master errata doc, below is a comprehensive list of the various differences between the original versions of the following classes and their unchained versions, in case it helps you decide whether you want to make the switch to the unchained version of the class(es) for those NPCs.
Unchained Barbarian: An ease-of-use upgrade...:
* Unchained PROS:
~ Stat changes from raging are easier to calculate on the fly.
~ Temporary hit points from raging are lost first so there's no danger of dying when ending the rage.
~ If you spend more than 5 rounds raging, you're fatigued for a shorter amount of time than the standard barbarian.
~ Barbarians with Weapon Finesse are now viable.
~ Less rule-ambiguity when it comes to undead barbarians and if their bonus to Con translates to a bonus to Cha instead (which in turn prevents their other Cha-based abilities from increasing).
~ Many rage powers are not more powerful than before.
* Unchained CONS:
~ If using a two-handed weapon, standard barbarian raging is slightly more favorable due to 1 extra point of damage from Str-and-a-half.
~ No increase to Fortitude saves while raging.
~ No increase to CMD while raging.
~ Raging doesn't increase carrying capacity.
~ If you spend less than 5 rounds raging, you're fatigued longer than the standard barbarian.
~ No increase to Climb and Swim checks while raging.
Differences:
- RAGE: > Standard: Rage increases Str and Con. Fatigued for double amount of rage rounds when ended.
> Unchained: Rage increases melee attack, melee damage, and thrown damage. Grants 2 temporary hp per HD (these are lost first). Fatigued for 1 minute when ended.
- RAGE POWER CHANGES:
> Animal Fury (CRB): No change. Just clarifying text about primary attacks that was always part of it but left out of the original version's description to save space and not confuse new players by making them look in the Bestiary for how primary attacks work when used with weapon attacks.
> Auspicious Mark (UCom): Usable once per day vs. once per rage. Doesn't require spending rounds of rage to use. Increases to a higher bonus at later levels.
> Beast Totem (standard, lesser, and greater) (APG): No change.
> Bleeding Blow (UCom): Usable once per round while in the powerful stance vs. once per rage. Deals bleed damage equal to 1/2 powerful stance damage vs. equal to total powerful blow damage.
> Boasting Taunt (APG): No change.
> Body Bludgeon (UCom): No change.
> Brawler (standard and greater) (APG): No change.
> Chaos Totem (standard, lesser, and greater) (APG): No change.
> Clear Mind (CRB): Make second Will save 1 round later vs. immediately and can do so more than once in a rage.
> Crippling Blow (UCom): No longer dependent on powerful blow (or it's reincarnation powerful stance) and is now a stand-alone ability. Usable once per day vs. once per rage via powerful blow. Allows damage to be applied along with its effects. No longer allows a save to halve its damage.
> Deadly Accuracy (UCom): Unlimited use as long as they maintain their accurate stance vs. usable if the surprise accuracy power happens to crit.
> Disruptive (APG): No change.
> Dragon Totem (UCom): No change.
> Dragon Totem Resilience (UCom): No change.
> Eater of Magic (UCom): Unlimited use vs. once per rage. Is triggered immediately each time they successfully save vs. being allowed a second save to trigger it. Grants temporary hp equal to spell level or 1/2 CR vs. caster level or total CR.
> Energy Absorption (APG): Usable once per day vs. once per rage. Gain additional temporary hp equal to 1/2 damage attack would have inflicted (not applying energy resistance) vs. 1 hp per 3 damage attack would have inflicted. Also adds the effects of energy eruption at the appropriate level.
> Energy Resistance (APG): No change other than combining the effects of greater energy resistance at the appropriate level, but they absorb 2 energy damage per level (resistance applied first) vs. half energy damage taken (resistance applied after).
> Fearless Rage (CRB): No change. Just clarifies that panicked is not a condition protected by this power.
> Ferocious Mount (standard and greater) (APG): No change.
> Ferocious Trample (standard and greater) (APG): No change.
> Fiend Totem (standard, lesser, and greater) (APG): No change.
> Flesh Wound (APG): Usable once per day vs. once per rage. Armor check penalty no longer applies to the Fortitude save needed (which makes up for the fact that the barbarian no longer has an increased Fort save from their Con increasing during rage). Success means barbarian takes no damage while failure takes only half vs. success taking half damage and failure taking full damage.
> Ghost Rager (UCom): No change.
> Good for What Ails You (APG): No change.
> Ground Breaker (APG): Usable as many times in a rage as a full-round action vs. once per rage as a standard action.
> Ground Breaker, Greater (UCom): No change.
> Guarded Life (APG): No change.
> Guarded Life, Greater (UCom): No change.
> Guarded Stance (CRB): Includes effects of rolling dodge, granting a +1 AC to all attacks, not just melee, and lasts the whole rage, not just for rounds based on Con mod. Increases more frequently (every 4 lvls vs. every 6).
> Hive Totem (UCom): No change.
> Hive Totem Resilience (UCom): No change.
> Hive Totem Toxicity (UCom): No change.
> Hurling (standard, lesser, and greater) (APG): No change.
> Hurling Charge (APG): No change.
> Increased Damage Reduction (CRB): Larger increase to DR (2/- vs. 1/-).
> Inspire Ferocity (APG): Is used with reckless stance and is a permanent effect while in that stance vs. a move action to activate it. Lasts for as long as they maintain the stance vs. rounds based on Charisma mod.
> Internal Fortitude (CRB): No change.
> Intimidating Glare (CRB): Use Str instead of Cha for Intimidate modifier. Shaken condition potentially lasts longer (entire rage vs. 1d4 rounds + 1 per 5 above DC).
> Knockback (CRB): Allows full CMB to be used, regardless of what attack it replaces (example: BAB is +15/+10/+5, barbarian could attack with +15/+10/+CMB to make a bull rush at the end).
> Lethal Accuracy (UCom): Unlimited use as long as they maintain their accurate stance vs. usable if the surprise accuracy power happens to crit.
> Liquid Courage (APG): No change.
> Low-Light Vision (CRB): No change.
> Mighty Swing (CRB): Can only be used once per day instead of once per rage.
> Night Vision (CRB): Increases range if darkvision is already possessed. Adds darkvision to list of prerequisite options.
> No Escape (CRB): No change. Clarifies that bonuses to base speed apply.
> Overbearing Advance (APG): No change.
> Overbearing Onslaught (APG): No change.
> Perfect Clarity (UCom): Unlimited use as long as they maintain the calm stance vs. usable only during moment of clarity power use.
> Primal Scent (UCom): No change.
> Quick Reflexes (CRB): No change.
> Raging Climber (CRB): Gains a climb speed vs. a bonus to Climb checks equal to their level (but only on surfaces that have a Climb DC of 20 or lower). This in turn grants the normal +8 bonus to Climb checks (but as an enhancement bonus).
> Raging Leaper (CRB): Gains a flat +8 bonus to Acrobatics checks made to jump vs. a bonus equal to their level. Also gains the ability to halve the total distance fallen for purposes of determining falling damage.
> Raging Swimmer (CRB): Gains a swim speed vs. a bonus to Swim checks equal to their level. This in turn grants the normal +8 bonus to Swim checks (but as an enhancement bonus).
> Reflexive Dodge (UCom): Unlimited use while maintaining guarded stance vs. usable only during rolling dodge power use.
> Renewed Vigor (CRB): No change (although standard barbarians will probably have a higher Con modifier to boost this).
> Renewed Vitality (UCom): No longer dependent on having Renewed Vigor. Has the effects of Renewed Life added to it, allowing her to ignore negative level effects applied to her. Loses the once-per-day ability to remove an ongoing effect when the rage ends.
> Roaring Drunk (APG): No change.
> Roused Anger (CRB): Loses fatigued condition vs. becoming immune to it. Does not gain temporary hp from the rage. When done raging, becomes exhausted for a flat 10 minutes vs. 10 minutes per round spent raging.
> Scent (CRB): No change.
> Smasher (APG): Unlimited use vs. once per rage. Ignores 1 point of hardness per level vs. ignores hardness entirely. No uses means not having to decide to use it before the attack roll.
> Spirit Steed (APG): No change.
> Spirit Totem (standard, lesser, and greater) (APG): No change.
> Sprint (UCom): Unlimited use vs. once per rage. Adds 1/2 speed to distance she can move when running or charging vs. 6x speed run and 3x speed charge.
> Staggering Drunk (APG): No change.
> Sunder Enchantment (UCom): No change. Note that this rage power normally has a prerequisite of needing to have the spell sunder rage power before you can take it. The unchained barbarian no longer gets spell sunder as an option since it was removed and its benefits were folded into the witch hunter rage power. It's recommended GMs add a House rule that the prerequisite rage power needed to take this be changed to witch hunter.
> Superstition (CRB): Removed supernatural abilities from the list of abilities this power affects.
> Swift Foot (CRB): Larger increase to speed (10 ft. vs. 5 ft.).
> Terrifying Howl (CRB): Affects only enemies shaken by the barbarian vs. shaken from any source. Adds intimidating glare rage power as a prerequisite.
> Unexpected Strike (CRB): Can only be used if there are no other enemies in a square the barbarian threatens. Unlimited usage vs. once per rage.
> Witch Hunter (APG): If you confirm a critical hit against a creature benefiting from an ongoing spell effect, that effect is suppressed for 1 round (determined randomly if more than one effect).
> World Serpent Totem (UCom): No change.
> World Serpent Spirit (UCom): No change.
> World Serpent Totem Unity (UCom): No change.
REMOVED AND FOLDED INTO OTHER POWERS:
> Rolling Dodge (CRB): Folded into Guarded Stance.
> Lesser Elemental Rage (APG): Folded into Elemental Stance.
> Greater Elemental Rage (APG): Folded into Elemental Stance.
> Energy Eruption (APG): Folded into Energy Absorption.
> Greater Energy Resistance (APG): Folded into Energy Resistance.
> Bestial Climber (UCom): Folded into Raging Climber.
> Bestial Swimmer (UCom): Folded into Raging Swimmer.
> Renewed Life (UCom): Folded into Renewed Vitality.
> Spell Sunder (UCom): Folded into Witch Hunter.
REPLACED BY NEW RAGE POWERS:
> Moment of Clarity (CRB) -> Calm Stance: Becomes a stance rage power. Lasts as long as the barbarian wishes it to vs. 1 round once per rage. Allows barbarian to retain their temporary hit points gained from raging. Requires no action (aside from the move action to enter the stance) vs. a swift action.
> Powerful Blow (CRB) -> Powerful Stance: Becomes a stance rage power. Applies to melee or thrown damage rolls vs. all damage rolls. Applies to all attacks and lasts as long as the barbarian keeps the stance vs. one attack once per rage. Requires no action (aside from the move action to enter the stance) vs. a swift action that needs to be made before knowing if the attack hit.
> Strength Surge (CRB) -> Strength Stance: Becomes a stance rage power. Lasts as long as stance is maintained vs. once per rage as an immediate action. Grants a flat +8 bonus to Strength for determining checks to lift, push, bend, or break objects vs. +1 per level. Grants a +1 bonus to CMB and CMD that increases by +1 every 4 levels vs. just +1 per level.
> Surprise Accuracy (CRB) -> Accurate Stance: Becomes a stance rage power. Applies to melee or thrown attack rolls vs. all attack rolls. Applies to all attacks and lasts as long as the barbarian keeps the stance vs. one attack once per rage. Requires no action (aside from the move action to enter the stance) vs. a swift action that needs to be made before rolling the attack. Grants a competence bonus vs. a morale bonus.
> Elemental Rage (APG) -> Elemental Stance: Combines all three elemental rage powers (standard, lesser, and greater) into one stance rage power. Can be used as long as the stance persists vs. one round. Early on, only deals 1 additional energy damage per attack vs. 1d4.
> Knockdown (APG) -> Knockdown Stance: Becomes a stance rage power. Usable once per round while maintaining stance vs. once per rage. Deals no damage vs. damage equal to Str.
> Reckless Abandon (APG) -> Reckless Stance: Becomes a stance rage power. Becomes a gateway rage power to a number of new rage powers that are usable while in this stance.
> Regenerative Vigor (UCom) -> Regenerative Stance: Becomes a stance rage power. Gains a number of temporary hit points back each round based on her level up to her max she gains from raging each round (vs. fast healing 1-3). No longer dependent on having Renewed Vigor.
> Come and Get Me (APG) -> Taunting Stance: Becomes a stance rage power. Allows continuous use allowing barbarian to attack in addition to getting this benefit.
NOT MENTIONED BUT SEEMINGLY NO REASON FOR THESE TO BE UNAVAILABLE TO THE UNCHAINED BARBARIAN:
> Bestial Leaper (UCom): Unlike bestial climber and bestial swimmer mentioned above did with their counterparts, this rage power didn't have its effects folded into raging leaper. Unclear if this was intentional or not.
> Dragon Totem Wings (UCom): Odd considering the other dragon totem rage powers were mentioned as being available to the unchained barbarian but not this one.
> Spellbreaker (APG): Since this just grants the benefits of a feat while raging, it seems like an oversight for not being included.
NEW RAGE POWERS INTRODUCED FOR THE UNCHAINED BARBARIAN:
> Protect Vitals
> Sharpened Accuracy
> Shove Aside
> Shove Aside, Greater
- DANGER SENSE VS. TRAP SENSE
> Bonus to saves and AC against trap attacks and Perception checks to avoid being surprised vs. just the bonus to saves and AC against trap attacks.
- OTHER CLASS ABILITY CHANGES
> Uncanny Dodge (2nd level): Bizarrely, the unchained barbarian's uncanny dodge ability received an update to it that has a lot of people scratching their heads. For one, it now allows the barbarian to keep her Dex bonus to AC while immobilized, but completely removes the part about keeping her Dex bonus to AC if her attacker is invisible. To make matters more confusing, the unchained rogue later in the book also has uncanny dodge, but its description is identical to that of the original version. It's almost as if the part in the original ability that says "the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if" was deleted by mistake. GMs may wish to treat that as the case and use the original version of the ability since allowing it to be used vs. invisible attackers is helpful and keeping your Dexterity bonus when you can't move is nonsensical.
> Tireless Rage (17th level): Adds the stipulation that beginning a rage less than 1 minute from when a previous rage ended does not grant temporary hit points
Unchained Monk: An upgrade other than losing some archetype options...:
Differences:
- HD: d10 (instead of d8)
- Base attack bonus: Full (instead of 3/4s HD)
- Saves: Will is REDUCED to a bad save
- Weapon and Armor Proficiency: "Monk" weapons added to list of weapon proficiencies.
- Flurry of blows: Big changes. Instead of getting treated as having Two-Weapon Fighting at various levels, they instead just get an extra attack at their highest BAB (and then another at 11th level). This means they also don't take a penalty to attack for using "two different weapons". In fact if they used a two-handed weapon they'd get 1.5 Str on each hit. Combined with their new full BAB, the new flurry hits more reliably than it did previously. Near the end, the original monk does technically get one more attack in their flurry chain, but it's at an incredible penalty and doesn't match up compared to the extra unchained attacks that are at full BAB.
- Maneuver training: Removed entirely since they get full BAB anyway.
- Still mind: Gained at 4th level instead of 3rd level. Note that monk vows can still be taken by the unchained monk, but losing access to still mind hurts more now that their Will saves are poor.
- Ki Pool: Gained earlier at 3rd level instead of 4th level. Removes the ability to spend ki points to increase speed by 20 feet in one round and to gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC (the speed bonus is instead granted by the sudden speed ki power, which also increases the speed bonus from 20 ft. to 30 ft. The dodge bonus is instead granted by the furious defense ki power).
- Ki powers: many former abilities have been converted into ki powers. A number of abilities unique to monk archetypes have been added here as well to make up for the fact that the unchained monk loses access to the monk's list of archetype options. Below are those ki powers that have been changed in one way or another compared to their original versions.
-> Abundant Step: Taken as a ki power, the monk can gain this at level 8 instead of 12.
-> Diamond Body: Taken as a ki power, can be gained earlier at level 8 instead of 11. Doesn't grant total immunity to poisons however, just the ability to spend a ki point to remove one poison affecting them as if they were using neutralize poison.
-> Diamond Soul: Taken as a ki power, can be gained earlier at level 12 instead of level 13. However, it's activated by spending 2 ki points as a swift action instead of being always on. This is sort of a benefit, since it helps avoid rule ambiguity as to whether or not friendly spells should be blocked by it.
-> Empty Body: Taken as a ki power, can be gained earlier at 18th level instead of 19th. Note that this level requirement was left out of Pathfinder Unchained by mistake (and was printed with NO level requirement mentioned at all), and was clarified by one of the devs later on the forums. The only "official" correction to this is in the form of an update added to the Additional Resources and Campaign Clarifications documents for Pathfinder Society.
-> High Jump: Now a ki power. No change otherwise.
-> Quivering Palm: As a ki power, can be taken as early as 16th level instead of earlier at 15th level. However, the attack can be used as many times in a day as they have points to spend to use it (4 ki points) rather than once per day.
-> Slow Fall: As a ki power, must spend a ki point to activate, however there is no limit to the fall damage that can be negated due to the distance fallen (provided they're adjacent to a wall), and as soon as they take it they're essentially treated as having feather fall, just like a standard 20th-level monk would be.
-> Wholeness of Body: As a ki power, can be taken as early as 4th level instead of 7th level. Also can heal 1d8 + level instead of just level.
- Style Strike (NEW ABILITY): At 5th level, monk gains the ability to apply a specific effect to 1 unarmed strike made during a flurry of blows, learning more at later levels and even the ability to use more than one during a flurry.
- Tongue of the Sun and Moon: Gained MUCH earlier at 13th level instead of 17th.
- Flawless Mind (NEW ABILITY): At 19th level, monk is able to roll twice and take the better result whenever rolling a Will save (which makes up for the fact that they have bad will saves now [though shame it's gained so late]).
- Perfect Self: Adds the ability for the monk to enter a calm state to regain 1 ki point per 10 minutes spent in the state (up to his max).
Unchained Rogue: A total upgrade, period...:
Differences:
- Finesse training (NEW CLASS FEATURE)
- Sneak attack can attack concealed enemies now (but not total concealment)
- Many updates to rogue talents to make them stronger
- Danger sense replaces trap sense
- Debilitating injury (NEW CLASS FEATURE)
- Rogue's edge (NEW CLASS FEATURE)
ROGUE TALENT CHANGES * Basic
> Assault Leader (APG): No change.
> Black Market Connections (UC): No change.
> Bleeding Attack (CRB): No change.
> Camouflage (APG): Removes once per day limitation.
> Canny Observer (APG): No change.
> Coax Information (APG): Adds an effect that says when the duration of the attitude shift ends, the target goes back to its original attitude level, not one step down.
> Combat Swipe (APG): Adds an effect that at 6th level the rogue is treated as having the prerequisites to qualify for the Greater Steal feat (but they must still take the feat as normal).
> Combat Trick (CRB): No change.
> Cunning Trigger (APG): No change.
> Deft Palm (UC): No change.
> Distracting Attack (APG): No change.
> Esoteric Scholar (UC): Removes once per day limitation. Note that since any character can make Knowledge skill checks untrained, this ability likely meant to say that a rogue can attempt untrained Knowledge checks even on topics with a DC higher than 10.
> Expert Leaper (APG): Adds rogue's level to Acrobatics check and allows greater distances of falling height to be ignored if they beat the DC by enough.
> Fast Getaway (APG): No change.
> Fast Stealth (CRB): No change.
> Firearm Training (UC): No change.
> Follow Clues (APG): No change.
> Getaway Artist (UC): No change.
> Grit (UC): No change.
> Hold Breath (UC): Doubles the amount of time they can hold their breath instead of adding 2 rounds to the limit. Removes the part about being able to be taken multiple times.
> Iron Guts (UC): No change.
> Lasting Poison (APG): Increases rounds a poison can be used, from 2 to Dexterity modifier (minimum 2).
> Ledge Walker (CRB): In addition to narrow surfaces, adds uneven and slippery surfaces.
> Major Magic (CRB): Increases the number of times it can be used from 2/day to 1 per 2 levels per day.
> Minor Magic (CRB): Increases the number of times it can be used from 3/day to at will.
> Nimble Climber (APG): Make a Reflex save instead of a Climb check at the same DC as the Climb check (instead of base DC + 10).
> Ninja Trick (UC): No change.
> Positioning Attack (APG): No change.
> Powerful Sneak (APG): Allows reroll of natural 1s instead of treating them as a result of 2.
> Quick Disable (CRB): Adds ability to open locks as a standard action if they would normally take a full-round action.
> Quick Disguise (APG): No change.
> Quick Trapsmith (APG): No change.
> Resiliency (CRB): Doubles the amount of temporary hp gained.
> Rogue Crawl (CRB): Also reduces attack roll and AC penalties for being prone by 2.
> Rope Master (UC): No change.
> Slow Reactions (CRB): No change.
> Stand Up (CRB): Adds ability to instead stand up as a swift action that DOESN'T provoke attacks of opportunity.
> Strong Impression (APG): No change.
> Strong Stroke (UC): No change.
> Surprise Attack (CRB): Adds ability to add 1/2 rogue level to sneak attack damage rolls made during the surprise round.
> Survivalist (APG): No change.
> Swift Poison (APG): No change.
> Terrain Mastery (UC): No change (just clarifying text).
> Trap Spotter (CRB): No change.
> Underhanded (UC): No change. Note there's an unresolved issue with this talent still. Even with the Quick Draw feat, drawing a concealed weapon is a move action, and thus can't be performed in a surprise round along with an attack. If this was intentional, then the rogue would probably need some other ability to use this properly, such as the ambush class feature from the bandit archetype.
> Wall Scramble (UC): No change.
> Weapon Training (CRB): No change.
* Advanced
> Another Day (APG): No change.
> Confounding Blades (UC): No change.
> Crippling Strike (CRB): No change.
> Deadly Cocktail (APG): No change.
> Deadly Sneak (APG): Allows a reroll of 1s and 2s instead of treating them as a result of 3.
> Defensive Roll (CRB): Goes from 1/day to unlimited use.
> Dispelling Attack (CRB): No change.
> Familiar (UC): No change.
> Fast Tumble (APG): No change.
> Feat (CRB): No change.
> Frugal Trapsmith (APG): No change.
> Getaway Master (UC): No change.
> Hide in Plain Sight (UC): No change.
> Hunter's Surprise (APG): No change.
> Improved Evasion (CRB): No change.
> Knock-Out Blow (APG): No change.
> Master of Disguise (CRB): Allows disguise to be donned as standard action. Adds stipulation that rogues must have the quick disguise talent first.
> Opportunist (CRB): Removes restriction for Combat Reflexes.
> Redirect Attack (APG): No change.
> Rumormonger (UC): No change.
> Skill Mastery (CRB): Reduces skills to be chosen from 3 + Int mod to just Int mod, but also automatically includes all skills chosen for rogue's edge class feature.
> Slippery Mind (CRB): No change.
> Stealthy Sniper (APG): No change.
> Unwitting Ally (UC): No change.
> Weapon Snatcher (UC): No change.
NEW ROGUE TALENTS INTRODUCED FOR UNCHAINED ROGUE * Basic
> Certainty
> Multitalented
REMOVED ROGUE TALENTS * Basic
> Finesse Rogue (CRB): Redundant now that all unchained rogues start with Weapon Finesse.
> Befuddling Strike (APG): effects are now a part of the disoriented debilitating injury class feature.
> Charmer (APG): Removed as it is now part of the Certainty talent.
> Fast Fingers (APG): Removed as it is now part of the Certainty talent.
> Fast Picks (APG): Removed and folded into the Quick Disable talent.
> Hard to Fool (APG): Removed as it is now part of the Certainty talent.
> Honeyed Words (APG): Removed as it is now part of the Certainty talent.
> Peerless Maneuver (APG): Removed as it is now part of the Certainty talent.
> Snap Shot (APG): Removed as it now has a simplified version in the new Quick Shot talent, but is now an advanced talent as it has become a swift action.
> Sniper's Eye (APG): Removed as it is now something all unchained rogues get for free with the update to sneak attack.
* Advanced
> Entanglement of Blades (APG): Removed as it is now part of the hampered debilitating injury class feature.
> Thoughtful Reexamining (APG): Removed as it is now part of the Certainty talent.
NOT MENTIONED BUT SEEMINGLY NO REASON FOR THESE TO BE UNAVAILABLE TO THE UNCHAINED ROGUE: * Basic
> Guileful Polyglot (APG): Additional languages seems harmless.
> Offensive Defense (APG): Possibly removed since this talent needed an official FAQ update to it to prevent players from abusing it. As long as you're aware of the FAQ (AC bonus only applies against the creature the ability was used against and dodge bonus doesn't stack with itself in case the rogue uses it multiple times in a round) then there's no reason this shouldn't be an option for the unchained rogue.
> Convincing Lie (UC): Harmless roleplaying talent.
> Ki Pool (UC): Seems like an oversight considering unchained rogues still have access to the ninja trick talent.
* Advanced
> Hard Minded (UC): This was left out due to a technicality. Originally this talent was called hard to fool, but there was already a talent with that name from the Advanced Player's Guide and this one did something different. A later errata to Ultimate Combat changed the talent to hard minded, but by that point Pathfinder Unchained had already been published.
> Master Tricks (UC): This talent was left out of the original printing of Ultimate Combat by mistake, but was later added back in with an official errata. Unfortunately for the unchained rogue, however, the errata was released after Pathfinder Unchained was published.
Unchained Summoner: A much-needed rebalancing...:
Differences:
- Spell list overhaul. (Note: It is highly recommended to start using the unchained summoner's spell list even if you prefer to stick with the vanilla summoner for your games. This new spell list isn't so much an update as it is a correction, as evidently the original summoner was mistakenly printed with an earlier draft version of its spell list and not the one it was supposed to have. The list it ended up with caused a number of metagaming issues like players trying to seek out summoners to craft things like boots of speed since they gain haste, as well as many other spells, at a much lower spell level than they should.)
- Major eidolon changes including:
> Their weapon attacks are now counted against the max attack value.
> Their evolution pool has been reduced, gaining fewer points to spend as they level up.
> They can now disobey the orders of their summoner if they're commanded to do something against their ethos. They will also refuse to be summoned if their summoner's alignment changes more than 1 step away from their alignment.
> Eidolon's now have subtypes tied to one of the outsider subtypes (and a few non-outsider types in later books). This subtype determines the eidolon's alignment, their base form, the evolutions they can choose, and some extra specific evolutions they gain automatically.
- Evolutions now list additional requirements before they can be taken, including which subtypes are allowed access to them.
> UPDATE: Only one evolution seems to have been updated between versions. The pounce evolution went from a 1-point evolution to a 3-point evolution.
THINGS THAT WENT MISSING BETWEEN VERSIONS Note: Everything introduced in Ultimate Magic was ignored, which seems bizarre considering it was released a couple years prior. - Base Forms
> Aquatic (UM): This seems like a HUGE oversight considering aquatic campaigns exist and there are a number of outsider types that have fishy-looking things in them.
> Avian (CoC): Normally I wouldn't mention non-core books, but this one feels like it deserves special mention since the book it comes from, Cohorts and Companions, was being edited and published around the same time as Pathfinder Unchained.
> Tauric (CoC): See avian above.
- Evolutions
> 1-Point:
~ Basic Magic (UM): A number of subtypes now grant spell-like abilities, which was probably why this was omitted, but Horror Realms did introduce the line of psychic magic evolutions which are very similar to this (albeit usually only available to the aberrant subtype). One thing worth noting is the azata subtype has a 20th-level ability that allows it to become incorporeal, but says it can still activate any spell-like ability evolutions it possesses. The azata subtype does not naturally gain any spell-like abilities and there are, in fact, NO spell-like ability evolutions since this line of evolutions was omitted from the unchained summoner write-up.
~ Hooves (UM): Like claws but only for the feet. Omitting this seems odd considering they're technically worse than the claw evolution since they're secondary attacks.
~ Low-Light Vision (UM): Subtypes now describe what vision abilities the eidolon gains beyond the darkvision they all have. Interestingly only the plant subtype from Ultimate Wilderness gets low-light vision.
~ Unnatural Aura (UM): Seems like this would have been a no-brainer evolution for the aberrant subtype from Horror Realms to gain automatically.
> 2-Point:
~ Channel Resistance (UM): This one's tied to the undead appearance evolution (see below).
~ Head (UM): There's plenty of outsiders out there with multiple heads, and again another no-brainer (or extra-brainer?) for the aberrant subtype.
~ Keen Scent (UM): This one was more tied in to the left-out aquatic base form.
~ Minor Magic (UM): See basic magic in the 1-point evolutions above.
~ Shadow Blend (ARG): Some parts of this evolution were folded into the 4th-level ability gained by eidolons with the shadow subtype. It's not a complete recreation, however.
~ Shadow Form (ARG): See shadow blend above. Also the ghost touch effect from this evolution is also a feature of the 4th-level abilities of the radiant and void subtypes.
~ Undead Appearance (UM): This would have been a great evolution to base a nightshade subtype off of, but alas we never got that in 1st Edition's lifespan. The shadow blend and shadow form evolutions above would have also been great additions to this subtype.
> 3-Point:
~ Major Magic (UM): See basic magic in the 1-point evolutions above.
~ See in Darkness (UM): Many subtypes now grant the see in darkness universal monster ability at a certain level.
> 4-Point:
~ Dimension Door (UM): No comment.
~ Incorporeal Form (UM): Only the azata subtype via its 20th-level ability has the power to naturally become incorporeal now.
~ Lifesense (UM): This evolution was tied in with the undead appearance evolution mentioned above. It's worth noting that void subtypes gain this ability at 12th level and aberrant subtypes eventually gain blindsight (a broader version of this ability).
~ No Breath (UM): No comment.
~ Ultimate Magic (UM): See basic magic in the 1-point evolutions above.
Given that anybody can attempt Knowledge skill checks untrained, this ability likely intended to say that the rogue can attempt untrained Knowledge checks on topics with a DC higher than 10.
For Nualia's statblock, I think the DC for Lamashtu's Mark isn't correct. The wording of the feat in all sources I can find online is NOT halving the character level/HD, so it should be a much more respectable DC 19.
And given Nualia's artwork and description, it seems the Intimidate and Diplomacy effects of Lamashtu's Mark aren't factored in. If you do, Diplomacy is at +3 and Intimidate at +14, but if you balance out the two skill ranks between them, you get Diplomacy +8 due to class bonus (Nualia is charismatic to gather followers like she has) and Intimidate works out to the +12 in the statblock.
Thoughts?
A couple of things here.
Lamashtu's Mark: I couldn't remember the source of the Lamashtu's Mark update. I could have sworn we had a dev weigh in on it and admit it was a mistake, but looking back it looks like we didn't know for sure and we decided it was half character level because Nualia's stat block said one thing, the feat description said another, and we chose the correct one based on precedent (1/2 level is the most common so we went with that). However, I just did a search in the Ask James Jacobs thread and found THIS. So it looks like I'll need to correct the correction and say it's correct as written in the feat description, and it's actually Nualia's stat block that needs to be updated as you suggested.
Skills: You're absolutely correct and good catch. Technically this could be explained away by saying her gear is covering her belly, since whether her abdominal scars are visible or not determines if she gets those bonuses and penalties, but you can clearly see by her artwork that her armor leaves room to expose them. I'd say that's good enough. Diplomacy should be at a +3 bonus and Intimidate should be +14. Specifically, Nualia has spent her 12 ranks the following way: 6 points in Intimidate, 5 points in Knowledge (religion), and 1 point in Linguistics.
Not an error per se, but GMs may want to consider adding the psychic class's phrenic pool to the list of class features this power can block by spending 2 ki points. That class feature is in the same family as the various point-based class features mentioned in the 4th sentence of this ki power, but was probably overlooked as both Pathfinder Unchained and Occult Adventures were being designed at the same time and Pathfinder Unchained was ultimately published first.
So weird situation I noticed when going through these creatures' stats. All of the skills listed are being treated as class skills and 2 of them bring up an interesting question about racial class skills when creature types are changed. Sense Motive, which is a class skill for undead; and Survival, which is a class skill for humanoids with racial HD like the skulk. Both of these skills fall outside of the rogue's class skills. What this stat block is saying is that the skulk got to keep Survival as a class skill despite being turned into an undead creature via the vampire template.
This isn't game-breaking and certainly an argument could be made that becoming a vampire doesn't "unlearn" the talents it had in life, but you could also counter that argument by bringing up the class retraining rules from Ultimate Campaign.
Corrections to my corrections. My favorite. I'm not sure where the original errors originated, but the following reverses some of the changes that were made earlier in this thread:
* Xyoddin's listed hit points are correct.
* Xyoddin's skills are evenly spent. An earlier correction said he was missing 1 skill point but that was incorrect.
As for the updates to his stats for anyone wanting to implement the updated Advanced Bestiary stats:
* Change his hp to:
hp 243 (15 HD; 9d8+4d8+2d8+180); fast healing 10"
* Change the Acrobatics skill bonus from +28 to +24. You can then spend the additional 12 skill points he should have for having 2 additional HD.
Found some more errors on the black monk I missed. I'm a little out of practice so if anyone spots an error in my corrections here, please let me know.
CMD seems like it should only be 39:
10 + 8(BAB) + 10(Str) + 4(Dex) + 4(Wis) + 2(monk) + 1(Dodge)
Additionally, if you're also implementing the changes from Green Ronin's updated Advanced Bestiary, then also change CMB to "+22" and change CMD instead to "42".
Second, I discovered in the first Bestiary that the energy drain description for the vampire template says it applies to all of the creature's natural attacks if it has any, not just the newly gained slam attack. This means that the bite attack, tentacles attack, and constrict attack should all say "plus energy drain" next to their damage values.
I've updated the errata document with these changes.
El oh el, was just brought to my attention that the energy drain ability can only be applied once per round, so nevermind on this one? I guess if the slam attack misses, you can always try with the other attacks in the same round.
