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Hey Everyone,

Just was looking on advice for adding Path of War to Core Classes without having to use Archetypes. The main reason being certain core skills (Paladin's Smite Evil) I would rather not replace as relied on the Archetype. Secondly, my plan is that all Martial Classes get this flavor in some form. (A Buff, because I am not planning on nerfing casters)

Currently my main plan was to add Martial Maneuvers etc based on Spellcasting Progression. Any Class with < 9th Levels Spells would get some Maneuvers based on access to extra abilities/spells.

Example: Paladins would get 2/3 Maneuver Progression, Fighters Full maneuver Progression, Magus 1/3 Progression.

1) Is there any takeaways that certain classes must be nerfed or allowed full maneuver progression based on Spellcasting access? (IE Rangers and Paladins both have 4th levels spells, but maybe rangers need more progression than paladins as an example).

2) Is there many Maneuver Modifiers in archetypes that are needed to supports specific maneuvers? See see that Path of War Archetypes do enhance certain maneuvers but some just add different abilities in the place of old.

3) Restricting Maneuver Stances to each class seems fair enough, any suggestions there is cool and fun :D.

4) And horror stories of combos to be aware of or specific maneuvers

Hey everyone,

Saw that the Champion was different (in a good way) from the playtest and was looking to ask about how the offensive options look for the Champion. Mainly, are the Litanies at useful compared to similar feat, Smite Evil worth passing up AoO, etc.

And yes, at this point most know the default "Choose flickmace" let's pass on that one.

To me so far, Smite Evil is only reliable for 4 damage. Foes can have some wild "Non-attack" options at their disposal. Litany of Righteousness seems good but s later levels, until it is seen to be competing with Divine Reflexes and some pretty awesome flavor auras.

Of course this is my first impression, just started playing at level one and wanted to see where I could go with Champion.

(Topic I came up with late in my previous thread which devolved from the main ideas of the initial thread)

So playing Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Pathfinder Tabletop, Dnd 5e, Dnd 4e, and 3.5, I think I have discovered my biggest issue with the Paladin other than no smite and retributive strike.

That is a loss of what we could call reliability, "old faithful", as it were.

In all of these edition the Paladins are usually smoked by the fighter in terms of raw build potential, but when a player chose a Paladin, they knew that they were ment to stick it through tough times and reliably do what they always have. Fighter fells to Will saves, wizards to focus and fortitude, rouges dodged, but Paladins stuck it out through thick and thin. Editions gave immunity to diseases, divince grace, lay on hands, smite evil all to emphasize no matter the enemy Paladins could be useful. That is lacking here for several core reasons.

This is best shown by comparing PF1 to PF2's allowance of abilities. Smite evil first was not tied to a trigger effect, and made sure that when faced with evil, Paladins could support the damage being done. Free, easy to use, reliable.

Second, Divine Grace. Charisma saves versus EVERYTHING, always active, NOT a reaction, reliable.

Third, Lay on Hands, SWIFT action on self, good heal, not encumbered by actions, reliable.

Forth, Regular feats such as Power Attack, gave plenty of options and versatility of build, reliable.

And finally Fear Immunity and Disease resistance and mercies built in seperately from feats.

All of these things added up to not make the class the best damage dealer per say in most groups, but the reliable frontline who could challenge evil and last through where others would falter, to make sure thier allies stayed alive. It was easier to be a defender in first edition with Attacks of Oppertunity, feats and healing even.

Does it need to be as strong as 1e? No, but design choices that don't interfere with eachother (limited reactions, no AoO default, lay on hands action economy and power) need to be looked at from 1e. Where there reliability was, where there purpose of design was.

I have a huge problem with Paladins in this edition after my love for them in 1E, and that is the focus around Retrebutive Strike.

For many paladin feats, and enemy must not A) Be adjacent to the Paladin when committing this act (looking at you evil wizards and rangers) AND hit someone other than the paladin. Not only then is this tactically avoidable to not be smited, now that smite is, imo, pathetically attached to this feat which the paladin has no choice over using. Smiting is no longer an event, but a tag on.

All in all, designing around a trigger that paladin can not be proactive about and is avoided by a gm playing smart is a failing for this class. A paladin can no longer search out evil alone, and must bring people to get his full effectiveness. Yes rpg's are team games a lot of the time, but this is not team coordination for cool effects and strategies, but team coordination to bring out usefulness that was packed into the class, rather than real tools of unique divine power.

Any other opinions? Often when you hear about class builds and suggestions, anything that is based on triggers out of your control is often avoided. Instead of pointing to that evil lich proclaiming your smite, you have to wait for him to actually do evil in the present to do so.

The Skewering Weapon Enhancement for some reason posts that it uses craft wondrous item, rather than craft magic arms and armor like there rest, is this wrong or is it really Craft Wondrous item? Hers the d20pfsrd as a quick reference (Which may be wrong but I do not have the book at the moment)

Also is this the Rule as intended or is errata then necessary?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abil ities/skewering

Does anyone know why the d20pfsrd doesn't show the Pummeling Style critical effect anymore. Was there an FAQ or Errata question???? (Every style feat I use for my monk are changing GAAAAAAAAAAAAH)

In order of the book for the confusion about armor on phantoms.

Page 73 PDF

[Fully manifested phantoms can wear armor and use
items (though not wield weapons) appropriate to their
forms. Any items worn, carried, or held by a phantom
are dropped when the phantom returns to the spiritualist’s
consciousness, and must be retrieved and donned
anew if the phantom wishes to use them when it fully
manifests in the future.]

THEN

In the PHANTOMS section pg 78

[Armor Bonus: The number noted here is the increase
to the phantom’s natural armor bonus when it manifests
as an ectoplasmic creature, and its def lection bonus when
it manifests as an incorporeal creature. An ectoplasmic
or incorporeal manifested phantom can’t wear armor of
any kind, as the armor interferes with the spiritualist’s
connection with the phantom; a phantom may seem to be
wearing armor, but this appearance is just an illusory part
of its appearance.]

YET the only 2 forms of full manifestation are those two. As pointed out here.

pg 79

[Full Manifestation Forms
Each time she fully manifests her phantom, the spiritualist
must choose whether to manifest the phantom in either
ectoplasmic or incorporeal form.]

So I am assuming you can't equip armor ever to the phantom.

I am a player in a group of close friends in pathfinder, however I seem to be the only "Normal" person when it comes to creating characters and choosing races. Also I feel as though I am the only one that realizes there is such thing as going too far by being "in character." We are playing Shattered STar and are level 5, but constantly my party members make it so I have to avoid pissing them off even with the best intentions. Every time I disagree and try to reason with them the Chaotic Neutral is "in Character" and thinks it is dumb where our half-orc (who claims he is "intelligent" but acts like a 5 year old and the minute he mistrusts me or I take something shiny he wanted (Usually to identify or sell for the party)) in character he'll mistrust and even attack me. As a custom point our party seperated and my character had to make it look like I betrayed them (GM created story) the minute I got back I said "It was a ruse/The leader planned this" I got an axe thrown at me, then the half-orc who is good btw talked to the CN and the CN then publically embarrassed my character with sneezing powder. 24/7 I am treying not to get attack but be a good party member. Now I feel sometimes they are "in character" but I still feel that that is an excuse. How should I feel about this? Am I right in being fustrated? It took me a long time of thinking and I wanted to see what others thought. (I may have added an excuse when I used ghost sound as someone on the other side of the door because the hald-orc CONSTANTLY knocked on every door to see if someone was there even when I reasoned for him ot too and was still being threatened with a bomb to my face by the alchemist who was clearly insane. These guys roll d100 to see how they react too which I feel is dumb)

In summary, were they justified in having reason to attack me by being "in character" though I wasn't evil and has anyone else had any experiences where they tried to be helpful but felt like the party hated them? What would you do? This arguement has been on going and fustrating me to try and not have my character die ot be in constant fear of getting on the bad side of them.

The result of all this was me leaving the table saying "In Character" I would NEVER want to work with them again after there constant misunderstandings at feeling as though I would be stabbed byt them. And the Orc is supposed to be a good guy mind you. He likes helping but easily acts like this.

PS: My friends don't dislike me and I don't hate them for this to have started. We all hang out and were in orchestra together. We still play football outside of pathfinder before I showerd them it etc.

Hey I was wondering if there was anyway to make a katana work with Pummeling style (assuming you can already flurry with the katana such as having the Crusader's flurry feat)

1) Could I use the feat Martial Versatility as a human to changed the unarmed strike requirment into a katana> (Knowing this is a fighter feat)

2) Would Blade of the Sword Saint being able to allow attacks to be treated as Ki Strike as though they were unarmed mean that weilding it allows Pummeling Style with attack that count as unarmed strikes coming from the blade?

3) Any other technique that would change the unarmed requirement to allow the use of a katana or other weapon.

I am not asking this to abuse it (which probably doesn't matter), I was trying to find a technique to make a unarmored katana samurai style character (Which I currently plan on Monk and a dip into Crusader cleric with the Crusader's flurry feat) and I saw some questions over this area.

First time on the forums posting and thank you for any feedback! ;)