Sleepy's page

Xaaon of Xen'Drik wrote:

Abundant step was changed to a move action in the Beta, it's functions like dim door, it's not dim door.

As far as I can tell, it's treated like Dimension Door except for the casting time and that it should work only for the monk. If Sleepy wants to do a standard action before teleporting away, he's welcome to.

It sounds like something that should be raised in the Monk playtest thread.

I'm pretty sure it has been raised in the monk threads, and hogarth's reading is the same as mine. It functions as the spell in all regards except for a couple things. It is a move action, and it is a supernatural ability (i.e. it wouldn't provoke AoOs as a spell-like ability or spell casting would).

I think we're also in agreement that it should be a personal spell as well - not usable on up to 1 medium creature per 3 caster levels. Strictly going by the spell, Sleepy could have brought along a few friends - but that, in my opinion, really breaks the spirit of the ability. We should bring this up, if anything.

Just curious, Sleepy -- how much "Pathfinderizing" did you do on the horned devil & company for the playtest?

It just occurred to me that I might need to rejigger the frost giant jarl's saves (since Jason changed the way base saves work for prestige classes).

I didn't do anything - they were straight out of the SRD.

An open playtest would be just fine... although I lack my own boards to handle the traffic!

Would something like this be appropriate in the paizo PBP discussion forum? A thread(s) might not be enough, perhaps a full forum would be more helpful.

I haven't explored too much of what ENWorld could offer, but they seem to have lots of forum space/blog space. Here's a list of personal forums: http://www.enworld.org/forum/personal-hosted-forums/, maybe space is available there, but I'm pretty sure you have to have a paid membership for that.

Email sent, to those whose addresses I had.

Many, many thanks to anyone with a real interest.

And a link for those who did not:

Classless_Pathfinder.zip

hogarth wrote:

I'd be interested in seeing the rules. Any chance you can post them somewhere for download?

I'm ashamed to admit it, but figuring out how to post here is about the limit of my internet skillz. If someone could explain in baby talk how to do what you suggest, I'd be amenable to trying it. Unless it requires logins and stuff. Failing that, you'd certainly be on the list of people I'd be willing to email them to!

I'm not too familiar with the various file-hosting sites - but I do know that there are tons and tons. That being said, I'd be glad to host the file and post a link to this board. Just email me at the address in my profile and I'll put up a link.

Sure. They've been on my web site for a few months now, as one of the GMs on the RPTools forum wanted them as well. (And he's done such great work on his CampaignMacros for 3.5/PF that I wanted to help out!)

Be warned -- the campaign files are only 8-10MB, but the other resources are two ZIP files that are each over 75MB.

Thanks a million! I'll dig through and see what I can use - anything to help get a level started is better than nothing.

If you should ever decide to go high-tech, I have RttToEE maps (some of the CRM and all of the OF and IF) as MapTool campaigns. The OF and IF have all vision-blocking lines drawn in, but I think the CRM maps are so old that MapTool didn't have that feature at the time. And those maps have the NPC tokens on them as well. (MapTool now has an advanced macro system for automating things, but these maps won't have any of that as the macros are new within the last few months.)

I'm running the original ToEE by pbem and I use MapTools to make the round-by-round summaries. Is there any chance you could post the maptool campaigns somewhere? I, for one, would be immensely grateful. I know a lot of the maps are different, but having the campaigns for the Return would be a great starting point.

Nedleeds, these are awesome summaries - I'm getting a ton of inspiration from what you've posted so far. I've changed a bunch of the details just to keep the players on their toes, but the various ideas you've outlined are a great help. Thanks!

I really do not see the problem with a feat alowing a free bull rush on cerain attacks. Like a standard attack, or a shield bash, etc. Not exactly a game breaker, and has lots of flavor in my mind.

The Shield Slam feat does exactly that - a free bull rush attempt on a successful shield bash maneuver.

Benefit: Any opponents hit by your shield bash are also hit with a free bull rush attack, substituting your attack roll for the combat maneuver check (see the Combat chapter). This bull rush does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Opponents who cannot move back due to a wall or other surface are knocked prone after moving the maximum possible distance.

But I agree, another feat chain that mimics a swashbuckler's style of maneuvering opponents around the grid would be a welcome addition.

So, I'm trying out Pathfinder, and obviously the PhB races have been enhanced, with the conceptual reason of making them more appealing and balanced with some of the more powerful races in other books. Obviously, however, not all other races are equal, and so I feel that ideally a DM should make adjustments as necessary to non-core races to balance. It seems that the core races seem to follow the pattern of a bonus to a mental and physical score. My general rule of thumb was going to be 1) Reduce LA by one on LA races if it seems balanced to do so. and 2) Give LA 0 races that aren't significantly better than PHB races a +2 to on more score, typically a physical if they had a mental or a mental if they had a physical.

One of my player wants to be a Goliath. I feel like they are too good to be reduced to 0 LA. However, I'm not sure if they would stack up to a +2 LA equivalent, which is what they'd be if left where they are. I am contemplating giving them a +2 to Wisdom. What are your thoughts? Would this be a balanced addition? Should they be left as they are, as they are one of the races the PHB races are being balanced to? Thoughts?

I have a golaith barbarian PC in my ToEE game (using Pathfinder Beta) and he is, by far, a better front line combatant than the human fighter who is one level higher. Even with the +1 LA, the race seems a bit overpowered. I would not provide any boost to the race. One big thing that overpowers him is the variable size. When a race can be considered large in certain circumstances (with Mountainous Rage), that is a pretty big boost in combat (and is non-dispellable like enlarge person is) while the PC misses out on most of the non-combat problems of being large in a medium-sized world.

I just want to get a quick response about how much time people have spent playing or DM'ing at high levels, how they got there, and why they stopped.

1) What is the highest level that you have played at for a few sessions?

2) Did the campaign start at low levels?

3) What ended the campaign?

I ran a pbem FR game until the PCs hit about 18th/19th level level. It started out about 6 years ago from level 3, using 3.0, then 3.5, and then we moved to Pathfinder Beta rules last summer. The game was a lot of fun, but things began to change in the early teens or so.

The campaign ended mostly because I couldn't keep up with high-level combats in the same spirit that we did at earlier levels. It was a frustrating experience to attempt to keep up with the vast amount of options available to PCs at that level and still manage effective, efficient encounters with them. The effort involved in just one round of combat was overwhelming and I mostly burned out. I had no problem with challenging opponents and plot twists - it was the combat management that really killed me. I've tried a bunch of different tools, but nothing really seems to work better for me than plain old text files and round-by-round status management. However, that just doesn't work for me at high levels.

Fergie here.

Thanks for taking the time to post this. I find that the battles with outsiders really stress test the system well.

How do you feel the party did based on the EL? Did they use a quarter of their resources?

I had always interpreted the rules strictly when it comes to space and reach. You occupy the 5' cube, (or 10x10 cube with enlarge) regardless of weapons or limbs leaving that area.

Remember that in order for Pro Evil/Good to hedge out outsiders, Spell Resistance applies.

Did the devils buff up before the combat? Did the PCs have free rounds to cast buffs?

As for the Eldritch Knight, my experience playing one was as you discribe - good for minor fighting, but lacking when things get really tough.

Thanks for the questions! I'm sure the players have input as well.

The party did fairly well vs the CR of 16. We were originally set up with a rogue as well, which would have been an even challenge but the rogue dropped out making the challenge a little tougher for them. As far as resources go, most were used on buffs. Those with consummables used most of those up.

Thanks for the space clarification - I've been fuzzy on that for a while now. In the playtest, I was assuming that a charge/shield slam would put the PC within the horned devil's aura, but technically, I think I was wrong on that.

The magic circle was against good and cast by the horned devil for his only buff. They really didn't have anything else useful during buff rounds. That is what hedged out the summoned elementals. Using a strict reading of the space rules, I think they should have been able to use a slam attack, but not do anything that would put them into the same space as the caster.

The PCs did use a lot of buffs. Mostly potions (displacement, fly, barkskin), haste spells, mass enlarge person, mass bear's endurance, etc.)

First off, much thanks to Xaaon of Xen'Drik, hogarth, and James Martin for participating.

Thread

Basics:
PCs included 5 15th level PCs, Bartimus the cleric, Grumble the fighter, Strangler the druid, Sleepy the monk, and Elmora the fighter/conjurer/eldtrich knight.

Opponents were standard SRD Horned Devil and two Barbed Devils.

Brief Summary
The first two rounds were buffing rounds and in that time, 3 huge air elementals and 2 bralani were added to the PC's roster, and the druid was in the form of a huge air elemental.

Round 3:
Monk moved in to attack and was hit with Horned Devil's spiked chain and was stunned into inaction for several rounds.
Horned devil and 1 barbed devil attacked the monk while he was stunned.
Cleric channeled positive energy vs outsiders.
Fighter failed save vs fear when approaching horned devil and was effectively out of combat for this round. Druid missed his attack.
Elementals were unable to enter the area around devils due to magic circle vs good. There was some contention over this due to the discrepancies between protection vs good/protection vs evil spells. Conjurer cast greater invisibility and ordered the bralanis to attack.
Bralanis need a 20 to hit, which one attack in four does.
Second barbed devil cast Unholy Blight with minor effect.

Round 4:
One barbed devil kept trying to attack monk but had no luck getting past AC, even when stunned.
Horned Devil attacked druid, one hit with minor damage.
Cleric cast Chaos Hammer with some minor success, moved to help the monk and provoked AoO from Horned Devil. He also failed to save vs stun and was stunned for a couple rounds as well.
Conjurer casts greater heroism on fighter to remove fear effect, allowing the fighter to get back into the fight.
Fighter moved in and got off one successful attack.
Bralani's attacks had one more natural 20 for one more hit.
Druid hits the horned devil with one attack, minor damage.

Round 5:
Cleric and monk are both stunned.
Barbed devil moves to attack the stunned priest instead of the monk and does some solid damage.
Horned devil does some relatively minor damage against the druid.
Druid, Conjurer and bralani attack and all miss.
Fighte full attacks and hits with a critical - lots of damage brings horned devil down to about 1/3 hit points.

Round 6:
Elementals can finally move to attack the barbed devil that moved out of the magic circle to attack the priest. One provokes an AoO from horned devil and gets stunned. Other air elemental does no damage.
Monk and Priest are still stunned and cannot act.
A barbed devil attacks the druid and misses.
Horned devil changes targets to the very powerful fighter. His one hit actually missed due to 50% displacement from a potion.
Conjurer casts haste on party.
Bralani's move and cast healing on priest.
Druid casts heal on monk.
Monk immediately attacks and misses all attacks on horned devil.
Fighter full attacks the horned devil, hitting several times with one more critical and easily kills the horned devil.

Round 7:
Two elementals attack a barbed devil and do some moderate damage.
Barbed devil fails to hit druid.
Cleric is no longer stunned, but is grappled. He channels vs outsiders again and does some moderate damage.
Barbed devil on cleric does more impaling damage.
Conjurer and bralani full attack one of the barbed devils and all miss.
Druid full attacks a barbed devil and knocks it unconscious.
Fighter full attacks the other horned devil and brings it to negative.

Quick Thoughts
Most of the PCs were very ineffective vs the Horned Devil. The fighter was the only one with a reasonable chance of hitting him and the horned devil was no match for him. The monk didn't stand up well as a front line combat type. The cleric was effective when not stunned. The conjurer was only really effective in a supporting role. The druid was mostly effective in both, combat and support.

Buffs were pretty critical. Enlarge person, divine favor, bears endurance, magic vestment, barkskin, and haste were common.

Clarification is needed for some things like Protection from Evil/Good.

I have a technical question about fear affecting PCs that attack with reach. For instance, the Horned Devil has a fear aura of 5'. If a PC with 10 reach keeps 5' away from the devil and attacks with a shield bash, does the fear effect still affect the PC since he had to put some body part into the 5' space (an arm in the case of shield bash). If it were a weapon with reach, then the fear effect, in my mind at least, does not apply. But if an arm, leg, tentacle, slam, etc. does enter the space, it seems reasonable to me that the fear effect does take effect. I couldn't find a rule on this - any help is appreciated.

Opinions, comments, etc., are of course welcome.

Presenting Illamen, Elven Wizard. As with most of my new characters, he's nearly broke. ^^

Umm. Could someone please tell me on which page of the beta test I can find the available languages ...?

I couldn't find a list in the Beta, but each race and class has a language/bonus language entry that sometimes details the specific languages available.

In the Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide, page 14, you'll find this:

Varisian languages

Numerous languages are spoken throughout Varisia, including Common, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, and Halfling. Not as commonly heard in civilized regions are the Draconic, Giant, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan tongues. In addition, the following five languages each have their place in Varisian culture.

Boggard: A language of croaks and pops belched by the frogmen of the Mushfens. Non-reptiles can only speak the simplest form of this crude tongue.

Chelaxian: Only the wealthy of Korvosa and travelers from the far south speak the national tongue of Cheliax. Humans of Chelish descent gain this tongue as a bonus language.

Shoanti: The language of Varisia’s Shoanti tribes, this sharp tongue is spoken across the Storval Plateau and any of the other rocky lands the barbarians inhabit. Humans of Shoanti descent gain this tongue as a bonus language.

Thassilonian: This is the dead language of the land’s ancient monuments, spoken today only by intellectuals, historians, and arcanists.

Varisian: Songs in this rolling, sultry language of Varisia’s native wanderers precede them wherever they travel. Humans of Varisian descent gain this tongue as a bonus language.

Gallows is ready for a look. I opted for the skill point rather than a hit point.

Background, sorry it's really long.
...

Thanks Gallows - that was a great read! I love the conflicted aspects of the character.

Hey sleepy, check out my AC

OK, I give up ... you win!

Hintal Hannibun wrote:

I'm checking in as well. I revised Hintal a bit so that he was more focused on urban adventure.

Friday the 20th seems like a long way off...

As per the thread instructions, here is Hintal's background, available for discussion if anyone is interested.

** spoiler omitted **

Just a couple additional things:

** spoiler omitted **

Alignment is on the second line, right above intitiative. I can probably set it off a bit so it's more prominent:

Neutral Small Humanoid (gnome)

Thanks for the extra info, I'll spend some time this weekend expanding on some of his familial background.

I've used this one with good results: http://invisiblecastle.com/
as well as this one: http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com/index.php

Neither one requires shared information, but both can easily link to any kind of roll.

Sleepy: I have no idea why you would want to activate your Boots of Speed in the surprise round; isn't that just wasting one of your 10 charges?

That's a good point - since it's a free action, I can do that in round 1 instead.

One question:

If I have a malus on STR and use Weapon Finesse with my dagger, I do 1d4 damage minus the STR modifier?! I never actually happened to experience this case and I want to be sure.

Weapon Finesse only applies a dex modifier to attack rolls in the place of the str modifier. The damage roll is still subject to a str modifier, so yes, if you have an 8 STR, then weapon damage rolls are -1 point of damage (to minimum of 1, I believe).

And one more question: I never heard of "Maneuver Resistance". Could someone please explain where to find this...

Might that be
DC = 15 + the target's CMB? From p. 150?

The resistance to Combat Maneuvers is usually 15 + your CMB (which is usually your BAB + Str modifier). However, some things provide for more resistance. If you have the Defensive Combat Training feat, for instance, that makes all maneuver attacks against you suffer a +4 to the DC. And if you have any of the Improved feats (grapple, trip, sunder, bull rush, etc) those add another +2 to the DC vs that specific type of maneuver. Hope that helps.

Sleepy wrote:

You're all very welcome, and thanks for the appreciation! I think I need to take a break from running the next one. Is anyone else up for refereeing a level 18 playtest? I can spend some time updating the monk - we'll see how effective I can make him.

I'll give it a shot. But don't expect me to pull any punches...

I'll set up a discussion thread.

If that was a monk pun ... A+

You're all very welcome, and thanks for the appreciation! I think I need to take a break from running the next one. Is anyone else up for refereeing a level 18 playtest? I can spend some time updating the monk - we'll see how effective I can make him.

Sleepy wrote:

Here are my stat rolls: 13 17 12 14 17 6 18

whistles Those are some nice rolls, man.

It's the first time I've used invisiblecastle ... beginner's luck maybe? Yes, it's almost difficult to decide what to do with them ;-)

Conditions at the beginning of round 7

Round 7

Battlemap

The two active air elementals attack, both hit with all attacks:
Elemental 3 full attacks does 1 and 22 points after DR
Elemental 1 attack does 2 points after DR

Barbed Devil full attack on Strangler
Claw 1 d20+18=34, miss
Claw 2 d20+18=24, miss

Bartimus channels vs outsiders while grappled:
SR d20+15=29 vs SR 23 on BD 1
SR d20+15=35 vs SR 23 on BD 2
BD 1 will save d20+12=32, saves for half (12 points)
BD 2 will save d20+12=14, fails save for full damage (25 points)
Others in range healed 25 points

Barbed Devil has a grapple on Bart:
Maintain Grapple: d20+20+5=36 vs DC 15 + 15 + 1 size: 31, still grappled
Impale damage: 3d8+9=20 points

Elmora and Bralani send arrows toward the barbed devils but nothing hits AC 29.

Strangler full attacks BD 1, attacks 1, 3, and 4 hit AC 29, 2 and 5 miss.
Damage 1: 28 points
Damage 2: 28 points
Damage 3: 1d6+2d6+7+7+4=30 points
Damage is enough to knock the barbed devil to 0 points and unconscious.

Grumble attacks the barbed devil #2 near Bartimus, hitting AC 29
Damage: 20 points after DR 5 (5 DR ignored from Penetrating Strike)
Damage is enough to knock the barbed devil to -5 points and unconsciousness.

Combat is officially over.

End of round 7 conditions:

Ok, some answers:

- Snatch can be used on creatures 3 sizes smaller than the creature that tries to Snatch; so, a Huge Dragon can Snatch only a Small or smaller creature. This is the reason I didn't give him the feat.

I ran an encounter recently with a pair of old white dragons with Snatch and Improved Snatch (let's you snatch larger creatures than normal), and Snatch and Swallow from Draconomicon. It was a blast having the dragons pick up and swallow the less physical PCs, take flight and digest their meal from on high. Any creature that has Snatch just has to have the other two feats, IMHO.

Here are my stat rolls: 13 17 12 14 17 6 18 Looks like we have a potential cleric, rogue, fighter and druid in the making - how about a sorcerer? My initial thoughts are of a young apprentice plucked off the streets for his as-yet-undiscovered and raw talent to work for a wizard or alchemist. The PG does have a lot of great info - I'll spend some time reviewing that today.

Regarding the first initial questions, I fall between a 2 and 4 depending on the game itself. I'm happy with more directed games and happy with less directed games, but the extremes are not my cuppa.

Question 2: Definitely not b and d, but definitely sometimes a, c, and e. A good mix of those three, but not to the extremes, is more my preference.

Please count me in as well. I haven't had the chance to look over the Ptolus guid, but I'll do that as soon as possible, look over the current PC roster, and pick something interesting.

Well at least she removed the fear from Grumble and the bralani helped Bartimus back up, those Cure Serious are kinda handy.

A smoothly functioning support team is one of the keys to success. If Grumble is the only one who can hit them, then it's best to help him do that as much as possible.

Does Haste provide me with +1 attack and an additional +1 attack with a full attack?

Haste provides an attack bonus of +1 which is an overall effect applying to all attacks. Haste also provides an additional attack when making a full attack. The +1 bonus would apply to both, normal attacks and the additional attack.

At Home: Against Pathfinder characters, I tend to give monsters 80% of max HP, and BBEGs 100% hp to balance them against Pathfinder core increase.

Good idea - I think I'll start doing that, or something similar to that. I'm running the original ToEE module (with 3.5 updates to all of the NPCs/monsters) with pathfinder PCs now. It is very clear that the PCs often out-class the standard monsters out of the box.

I'd be very interested in participating as well. Looks like some fighter-types or priestly types might be needed? Let me know if there's room and I'll get to work on a PC.

Conditions at the beginning of round 6

Round 6

Battlemap

Air Elementals 1 and 3 move to attack the exposed barbed devil on Strangler's orders.
Air Elemental 1 provokes AoO from Horned Devil (any movement to within reach of barbed devil is inside chain's threat range)
d20+25=38, hit, 24 points, 19 after DR
Stun DC 27 Fort save, d20+9=17, failure, Elemental 1 is stunned for 3 rounds
Air Elemental 3 attack: d20+19=36, hit, damage 2d8+4=9 points, 0 points after DR

Sleepy Monk is stunned and cannot take any actions.

Barbed Devil 1 takes a 5' step and full attacks Strangler:
Claw 1 d20+18=26, miss
Claw 2 d20+18=23, miss

Horned Devil sees that the real threat is Grumbly. Full attack on the dwarf.
Chain 1 d20+25=45, hit, damage 2d6+15=22
Chain 1 crit confirm: d20+25=26, fails to confirm
50% concealment miss chance: d100=30%, attack actually misses, no damage, no stun
Chain 2 d20+20=31, miss
Chain 3 d20+15=16, miss
Bite d20+22=25, miss
Tail d20+22=30, miss
Horned Devil howls in complete frustration.

Bartimus is stunned and cannot take any actions.

Barbed Devil 2 has Bart grappled:
Maintain Grapple: d20+20+5=31 vs DC 15 + 15 + 1 size: 31, still grappled
Impale damage: 3d8+9=26 points

Elmora casts Haste on the party. Grumble and Sleepy are already hasted, the air elementals are 30+ feet from Elmora so are out of effect, but the rest of the party gains Haste.

Bralani 1 moves to cast healing on Bartimus, he is healed 18 points.

Strangler successfully casts healing spell on Sleepy, he is now fully healed and no longer stunned.

Sleepy Monk immediately takes a 5' step to flank horned devil, attacks, spends Ki point for extra FoB:
FoB 1 d20+18+2=23, miss
FoB 2 d20+18+2=31, miss
FoB 3 d20+18+2=35, miss
FoB 4 d20+13+2=28, miss
FoB 5 d20+18+2=27, miss

Grumble full attacks the horned devil, attacks 1 and 2 hit, 1 critical confirmed, attack 3 misses, total of 83 points.
Attack 1 damage: 33 points, 28 after DR
Attack 2 damage: 58 points, 55 after DR
Grumbles attack drops the horned devil to big negative numbers.

Bralani 2 moves to cast healing spell on Bartimus, he is healed 20 more points.

End of round 6 conditions:

Just think of a one-on-one fight between Grumble and Sleepy, the only advantage you have over Grumble is speed, Grumble has higher AC and higher attack values, that's why I made the monk I did, it can actually keep up with the fighter on the offensive side. did you check out my monk?

Yes, I did have a look. I remember looking at it a while back as well. I think it certainly does what you're trying to do - put him in the ballpark with the fighters.

Depending on what the final Pathfinder monk looks like, I'll keep that one in mind.

I'm pretty happy with the way this fighter turned out...now if only the monk were this powerful.

If only ... that stunning attack is pretty powerful. I've been trying to keep him single classed in the hopes of seeing how they could keep up with the front line fighters. It doesn't look so good. Multi-classing will help, but again, that's what I was trying to avoid.

At the beginning of round 5, these are the current conditions

Correction from round 4 - the bralani's damage vs BD#2 was not negated by DR. Damage is shown below.

Round 5

Battlemap

Air Elementals sit and await further orders.

Sleepy Monk is stunned and can't take any actions.

Barbed Devil 1 takes a 5' step and continues one more full attack vs Strangler in an effort to hit.
Claw 1 d20+18=33, miss
Claw 2 d20+18=24, miss

Horned Devil full attacks Strangler as well:
Spiked Chain 1 d20+25=38, hit, 2d6+15=23 - 5 DR: 18 points
Spiked Chain 2 d20+20=26, miss
Spiked Chain 3 d20+15=30, miss
Bite d20+22=39, hit, 2d8+5=19, -5 DR: 14 points
Tail d20+22=24, miss
Stun chance: DC 27 Fort save: d20+16=27, Strangler successfully saves.

Bartimus is stunned and cannot take any actions

Barbed Devil #2 moves around Sleepy and attacks Bartimus
Claw 1 d20+18=28, hits Bart's adjusted AC of 26, 2d8+6=15 points
Fear save when hit by claw, DC 20 Will save: d20+18=33, save vs fear
Free grapple attempt, d20+20=37 vs DC 15 + 15 + 1 size: 31, grapple attempt hits
Impale damage from grapple: 3d8+9=23 points

Elmora moves up 30', attacks, but nothing hits.

Bralani 1 attacks barbed devil #2, but misses both attacks.

Strangler full attacks but misses all attacks.

Grumble full attacks. Axe attack 1, 2, and 4 hit (crit confirmed), Shield bites 1 and 2 hit vs AC 35, 106 points of damage total.
Axe attack 1 damage: 26 points (31 - 5 DR after penetrating attack)
Axe attack 2 damage: 18 points after DR
hasted Axe attack 4 damage: 53 points after DR
Shield bite 1 damage: 4 points after DR
Shield bite 2 damage: 5 points after DR

Bralani 2 attacks barbed devil #2, one hits, but critical is not confirmed (barbed devil's AC is 29 - it was 31 when within 10' of horned devil but he moved outside of that range to attack Bartimus. Damage is 14 points that bypasses DR.

At the end of the round, some of the horned devil's wounds close.

End of round conditions, heading into round 6

What are Sleepy Monk's attacks though? (+18 correct?) Grumble has a +28 attack with both his dwarven axe plus he's a shield specialist. Monks need a LOT more work. They are far behind the fighter now. Grumble has mobility +4 dodge, could drink a +5 barkskin be at almost a 50AC....

Yes, the monk attacks are nowhere near the fighters - that is a big weakness. I was only referring to the AC dilemma. There are problems, and Jason has mentioned a couple times on various threads that the monk has received some special attention. I'm hoping this is one aspect that is brought more in line with front-line fighters.

Sleepy wrote:

hogarth wrote:

Who are we waiting on? Strangler is going to wait until the devils act before doing anything.

Sorry, been a busy weekend.

You're allowed to take the weekend off. :)

Mostly I was worried that everyone else was waiting for me... (That has happened on numerous occasions.)

I suppose I need to submit a written request for vacation time during the week ;-)

On a side note, thanks all, for hanging in there with all of my mistakes. I thought by now the lot of you would be running for the hills. It might not show, but I've been DM-ing for going on 25 years now ... all the way back to one of the first versions (can't even remember what it was) back in the service. Those were the days!

How did that bralani get sickened? I think I missed that effect.

In round 3, Bralani 1 failed his will save vs Barbed Devil #1's Unholy Blight spell. Bralani 2 was unaffected as BD#1 failed to beat his SR.

Elmora will move within 30' but above her. Activating her flight power of her celestial armor. Elmora will move within 30' of the Horned Devil. Using Silver arrows, Elmora will fire her holy bow at the Horned Devil. (Normal, not using rapid shot, I will just use the hastened extra shot.)

1d20=12+20
1d20=11+15
1d20=13+10
1d20=14+20 (including +1 height bonus.)

ugh, I doubt any of those hit.

The horned devil has a base AC of 35, +2 vs good creatures as long as the magic circle is in effect.

My shield has been enlarged, does its damage increase for its bites?

Yes, we really should be calculating the damage of enlarged weapons as well as unarmed attacks, but I haven't done that. Please do take that into account when rolling damage dice.

Umm...are the barbed devils (target of bralani's new attack) resistant to holy damage as well? holy damage is good damage.

My mistake again. I keep reading the DR entries in a very dyslexic manner, sorry about that. The barbed devils have DR 10/good, and the bralanis have good-aligned attacks, so they do bypass the barbed devils' DR. I can't edit that post anymore, but that will be updated for round 5.

Who are we waiting on? Strangler is going to wait until the devils act before doing anything.

Sorry, been a busy weekend.

Sleepy wrote:

Strangler McGee wrote:

Strangler's AC is 38 because of the Barkskin he cast in the prep round. Also note that he has DR 5/-- (from Elemental Body IV).

Thanks, that brings his damage down by 23 points.

The round 4 post is edited to reflect that now.

Actually 48 points:

20 point hit from barbed devil misses
23 point hit from horned devil misses
5 points from horned devil hit stopped by DR

Round 4 is updated again, thanks.

Strangler's AC is 38 because of the Barkskin he cast in the prep round. Also note that he has DR 5/-- (from Elemental Body IV).

Thanks, that brings his damage down by 23 points.

The round 4 post is edited to reflect that now.

Sorry, for interupting, Picture back handing a guy with your shield. it is more visually accurate. I would also rule a 'my bad', as it would completely change the outcome of last round and most of the curretn round.... Sorry for interupting. JMO. Great playtest BTW.

I have thought about it, and yes, I wasn't being imaginative enough - I think it's reasonable to try and shield-bash with reach (if you have reach, of course). It's one of those problems where the picture-what-I'm-thinking of the PC doesn't quite align with that of the DM. I find it to be common in pbem's. If this were a campaign, I would do a rewind. Since we're just trying to plow through this, I think we can keep going as is.

Corrections and status from last round include:

Round 4

Battlemap

Air Elementals sit and await further orders.

Sleepy Monk is stunned and can't take any actions.

Barbed Devil #1 takes a 5' step towards Strangler McGee (avoiding AoO) and full attacks.
Strangler's AC = 33 in huge air elemental form
Claw 1 d20+18=28, miss
Claw 2 d20+18=37, miss

Horned Devil takes a 5' step towards Strangler McGee (avoiding AoO) and full attacks.
Strangler's AC = 38 (33+5 barkskin) in huge air elemental form
Spiked chain d20+25=36miss
Spiked chain d20+20=31, miss
Spiked chain d20+15=25, miss
Bite d20+22=29, miss
Tail d20+22=38, hit, 2d6+5=15 (10 points after air elemental DR) and infernal wound

Bartimus casts Chaos Hammer. There is a radius to catch only the devils and exclude Sleepy ... will assume that to be the case.
Barbed Devil 1 SR 23, spell succeeds, will save d20+12=28, saves for half (16 points), no slow effect
Barbed Devil 2 SR 23, spell succeeds, will save d20+12=22, saves for half (16 points), no slow effect
Horned Devil SR 28, spell fails against him.
Bart moves to position behind Sleepy.
AoO provoked by moving within threatened spaces of Horned Devil's spiked chain.
d20+25=37 vs AC 26 (28 normally, - 1 size, -1 dex), hits
2d6+15=24 points + stun
DC 27 Fort save: d20+15=19, failure, Bart is stunned for 2 rounds (round 5-6)

Barbed Devil #2 full attacks Sleepy
Claw 1 d20+18=28, miss
Claw 2 d20+18=29, miss

Elmora casts Greater Heroism on Grumble, instructs Bralani to change targets.

Bralani 1, hits with one attack, d8+5=9 points which overcomes Barbed Devil 2 DR.

Strangler full attack vs AC 37 (35 + 2), hits with one attack: 18 points after DR.

Grumble moves to attack. There isn't a straight line between him and horned devil, so he has to move, then attack.
AoO has already been provoked by Bart
Attack roll of 41 + 2 = 43 vs AC 35 hits.
It looks like you rolled a d20+13 instead of a d10+13. Damage re-rolled: 1d10+13=22, 1d6=6 electrical
Damage 17 after partial DR, no resistance to electrical, so it takes the full 6 points: 23 points.

Bralani 2 attacks but both arrows miss.

Some of the horned devil's wounds heal up.

At the end of the round, these are the current conditions:

enhancement to fists? i don't think that is possible...

I just had a thought. a monk has the WORST AC in the game. no armor= no enhancements= the monk is a minimum of 6 AC less than others. Mages can wear armor if they don't mind tha spell failure, until they can just cast magic armor. The monk either has to depend on the party mage, or spend massive amounts on potions or rods.
I was thinking of giving him access specifically to padded armor, and alow him to keep all his monk abilities.Not fancy, but it gives him access to enough protection to justify putting him on the front line.
This combined with adding gontlets to his monk weapons list would go a long way toards playability.... IDEA, give him this ability at say 10-13th level. that is a heck of alot beter than any other monk ability above 12th.
Does this sound rasonable all you monks out there? Equal rights. that is what we want. We've had the women's movement, how about the monks movement. :-D

The Amulet of Mighty Fists provides enhancement to unarmed attacks (fists), and provides a mechanism to add weapon properties as well (i.e. holy, flaming, etc.).

I'm testing out a level 15 monk on this thread and I've gotten Sleepy Monk's base AC up to 32. With a ki point spent on a +4 dodge bonus, Dodge, and a potion of +5 barkskin, he's up to AC 42 - not too shabby for a monk. In comparison, the 15th level fighter has a base AC 41 before miscellaneous add-ons - so I'd say he is in the same ballpark as the fighter.

hogarth wrote:

Comments:

[list]

The druid had no problem pulling his weight in melee by turning into a giant octopus; he had lots of primary attacks with good reach. This brought up a question, though -- can a druid wild shaped into an aquatic form (like an octopus) breathe air? It says he can breathe while swimming, but can he only breathe water?

I'd rule one of 2 things - either the druid couldn't wildshape into an aquatic creature while not in water (similar to the summoning restrictions), or they'd have to hold their breath (suffocating rules).

Thanks for starting this thread Hogarth, I've been meaning to but just hadn't gotten to it yet.

For the purposes of this playtest, we chose the second option - suffocation. Since the combat lasted only 4 rounds, it really wasn't a problem. I think this route is generally acceptable given that some combats will last a bit longer and put the PC in the position of having to make a different choice.

(I just noticed, you said I get within 5 ft of the devil then get feared. But I have reach since I'm large, how large is its aura?)

This is an interesting point. Yes, large humanoids gain 10' reach. Grumble, however, declared a shield-slam (w/free bull rush) attack. Conceptually, contrast that with Strangler's unarmed attack with 15' reach. A bull-rush is an attempt to push an opponent back x amount of feet. To do that, Grumble would have to be within 5' of him. This is how I initially considered this scenario ... rightly or wrongly.

I think we need a bit of rules clarity here. My question would be, can the free bull rush attempt granted by the shield slam feat (or any kind of bull rush attempt) be done with a reach attack? It doesn't make logical sense to me that it could. I'm imagining Grumble putting his body behind his shield and plowing forward with all his strength. That, to me, implies it can't be done as part of a reach-attack.

Any thoughts?

Elmora will cast move to Grumble and cast greater heroism. Granting immunity to fear...this should get Grumble back in the fight correct? (if it doesn't then I'll have to cast black tentacles instead.

Greater Heroism does provide immunity to fear which will allow Grumble to act normally as long as it is in effect.

Note that Bartimus's channel energy does its normal healing in addition to turning outsiders. Also note that the bralani acutally hit with one arrow attack (it was a natural 20). Also note that Strangler is good-aligned, so he takes 14 damage from Unholy Blight.

RE: Bart's channeling - Yes, Sleepy was the only one damaged at that point in the initiative, so he'll get the healing from that. I'll resolve that before going into round 4.

RE: natural 20's always hit - I always used that as an optional rule, but you're right, there it is on page 131. I'll resolve that before going into round 4.

RE: Strangler's alignment - Looks like another thing I mis-read. Thanks for pointing that out.