Bravo! Good luck to Paizo for standing on there own. If 4e, turns out not to be for me, I will be back. Hell, I'll be back to pilfer Paizo story ideas.
I thank you a whole lot. Be3st of success for Paizo.
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just that so far 4E has the appearance of being more tabletop wargame than RPG. ... They've been saying that about 3e for years. I think it depends on the Dm. I for one see no problem developing narrative for in depth story telling in what I have seen of 4e. With the powers description my players will have more to work with when describing the actions their characters are taking.
That's because it's 4e; alignments are out. Step out of the box, man and visualize the possabilities. Think of a violent street gang with fear, violence and a cult of personality, a street gang can make an effective "spy network", and rule it's domain.Is that a minor action step to get out of the 5' square box, or is it an action my Warlord has to grant me? ;-) LoL Stay tuned for the release of Dungeons and Dragons fouth edition, June 2008 and find out.
You delve into the powers description. You use the descritions in the powers to tell your story. You also use Dm fiat. The DM must decide how the movement of the characters brought on by this and that power, effects the game; does a character, PC or Monster, gain combat advantage, does the move trigger a an imediate action, etc. Its the thing DMs have been doing with out minis for as long as I have been gaming, almost 30 years. For me, well I have a 10 year old battle mat and a shoe box of WotC plastic minis (way more than any lead mini or token collection, I have ever had).
Hmmm. Makes me anticipate playing 4e even more. The Warlord is a Player Character Class I would like to play. One of my fovorite 3rd edition characters was a Paladin SirKaikillah. He would have made a better Warlord. The article "The Warlord Revealed" Also revealed some things to this old fiend. As a Dm I have more to work with in describing combat scenes and so do my players. Movement seems important in the game. The game board becomes even more important than it did in 3rd edition. D&D continues to move towards it's wargaming roots. Good.., bad.., there is only one way to find out. Play 4e Dnd. Really, I like a Heavy dose of story telling in my tactical gaming. I hope 4e delivers on both.
Ready to move on to 5 edition D&D.
My only gripe with the entry is if they are as chaotic and crazy as they are described then how do they have any kind of organized government and country? How can a king have a spy network? The first takes some basic organization and the second takes a lot of organization to be effective. The idea of massive kingdoms of crazy giants doesn't work for me. That's because it's 4e; alignments are out. Step out of the box, man and visualize the possabilities. Think of a violent street gang with fear, violence and a cult of personality, a street gang can make an effective "spy network", and rule it's domain.
That is why people care so much.
here here! I think one of the biggest problems is that the 4E lovers are taking every attack/rant against the system as a personal slight against them for wanting to switch. Ahh no. Although I think some pro 4e folk are trolling these messageboards to feel rightously indignant.
That might be true, but I'm 39, and I am looking forward to 4e. In fact, they're are two players in my group under twenty and dedicated Wow players, who are not looking forwrd to 4e. Manly they are apathetic about learning a new rules system. But they will play what I Dm, cause i'm good.
I don't play MMO's. But I think your right. WotC is propably following trends seen as successful in other game platforms such as MMO's CCG's; niether of which I have ever played. So those changes are all new to me. P>S> Again not all of us 4e supporters are taking rants against 4e personally.
I never thought about that. Good point Mr. Grimcleaver.
Damn it! Me too! I love the new cosmology of the 4e core multiverse. I love the idea of "Grimm" faeries. The Fomarian article was just some super cool stuff, in my fiendish opinion.
Unfortunately, goblins do not appear to be fey in 4e either, based on the stats released so far. Yes, but if my Dm says it's so.., then it is. Because he's the Dm.
I have a fourth; 4. Movement and range given in square. My minds eye just doesn't picture range "6". I can picture a range of "30 feet", but not "6". 5. 6. I only have 4. 7. I only have 4. 8. I only have 4. 9. I only have 4. 10. I only have 4.
1. I most two and a half months for the rules. 2. It has attracted a lot of haters ()h well, haters will hate and players will play, new games. 3. No gnomes in the PHB. Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! 4. I only have three. 5. I only have three. 6. I only have three. 7. I only have three. 8. I only have three. 9. I only have three. 10. I only have three.
1. The powers option concept. 2. simpler to run monsters. 3. Fresh new "fluff" ideas. 4. The gods are vulnerable to epic level characters. 5. Feywild 6. Shadowfell. 7.Darker, meaner, grimmer faeries. 8. Wizards still have there spellbooks. 9. My wizard can always do something magical, even at low level play. 10. No xp cost for creating magic items.
I will start by saying that I did not read any other thread but the first very long.....one by BarelyCoherent. I will say that BarelyCoherent is wrong. He is right about 4e being flamed on this message boards. But that doen't stop me for making positive comments about 4e on these boards. Paizo regulars have been the most inclusive bunch of posters I have ever posted with,People voice there opinions that is what this place is about. You will be insulted, it' s almost an art form arround here. But in the end people arround here except the excpetional, even if with a healthy dose of insulting disagreement. I've never been to the ThinkTank, but the WotC messageboards is down right hostile. So BarelyCoherent got his feathers ruffled about how people bag on 4e. Try asking if you can have a imp wizard/3 use his suggestion ability through the use of message spell in 3.5 at WotC. They'll roast you for even thinking about such a stupid idea. Don't even question WotC's censorship policy on there messageboards, you will get a Wizo warning to stop bagging on there messageboard policy on censorship because they dohn't "censor" there message boards. I guess what I want to say is. I'm sorry if you don't like the 4e bashing here (I don't, I'm looking forward to 4e), but the Paizo messageboards are friendly and inclusive, Lilith will even offer newbies virtual cookies. Mmmmmmmmmm, Cookies!!!!!!!!!
Woot!!! Woot!!!!
Exactly. To me, D&D 3.x is like a fine,distinguished wine...probably of the white variety, though possibly red, to be tasted, pondered upon, and enjoyed and understood on a higher level of acquired tastes... 4e, however, is like those lemonade beers they released a few years ago to take the "kick off", or a nice fruity drink to get the naive and unrefined drunk quickly. At best 4th edition might be a bottle of sweet champagne.... prolly a mass produced California variety.Poop!
I like the art and the layout style. What happened to 14th level spells? What about 15th level utility spells? I just think something is odd about the layout.
See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. The 3rd edition architecture for monster design works best when you ignore it. If only I would have known.
I just may start designing my own adventures again. I found it easier to use adventure paths, because a lot of the work was done for me. If 4e works as advertised, I should be able to dm out of the monster manual, with a battle mat and an idea again. Something I stopped during 3rd edition. But simple only works if it is effective, we shall see.
Poop.
Interesting. I like static defense, it will making rolling dice in front of players more fun. Less meta game thinking than asking a player the make a Save v. such and this. A lot more surprise when a Dm describes what is going on. I also speculate, that the four static defenses, will eliminate Ac v. touch spells. A common statistic on stat blocks in 3.5 gaming products as of late.
Hurray. When I first saw this post, I thought the worst. But then I remembered this is the Paizo message boards. Most of the people here have remained civil about 4e dedication to Gary Gygax by WotC. A most appropriate action by WotC, in my opinion. There is a reason I like hanging out here (wel virtually), you guys are cool.
str 6 dex 9 con 11 int 13 wis 13 chr 16 I'm a wizard. A handsom wizard..., with one only spell (sigh).
Good point!
I like to go there and start flame wars!I go now! Burn the Wizards!!!! Burn the Wizards!!!! Burn the Wizards!!!!
Don't even dare question there message board policies, that is a no no. I once wrote a post about how WotC does censor there message boards (as does Paizo) and there is a reason for it, so as to maintain civility upon the messageboards. I was warned by an official WotC monitor that I was off topic and need to refrain from discussing WotC's policy of censorship. Which they don't do! But try to write f+#$ on the WotC message boards or this one. P>S> Thanks for editing the post. I mean it.
Everyone please check out the latest Order of the Stick. Thanks Sharoth. That was funny!
You changed my life! Thanks Gary.
The size of the new stat blocks reminds me of the old school 1st ed. monster manual. I like the idea I can actually play straight out of the monster manual. I miss that in dming a dnd game. I might be able to free style dm again, something I have not done since the out set of 3rd edition.
The 4e section is used mostly to voice why 4e is going to suck. Some even wait feverishly for any news on 4e, just so they can voice there opinion again on how 4e is going to suck. As for myself, I'm on the 4e side of the fence. But if people want to complain about 4e with out ever playing the game, let them. It's a lot more appropriate to to complain on these message boards about 4e, than spitting in the face of some WotC game designer. My point is, don't let the nay sayers get to you. Unless of course you WANT to debate about "why 4e haters post on the 4e section of the message board? In that case great question.
So when can we accept that 4E is what it is (like it or not) and those that want to play it deserve a space where they can talk about it freely without the sniping and rancor. There can can only be one.
According to Chris Pramas' experience of one game, DnD 4e is like a CCG. I've never played a CCG or MMORPG, but I am looking forward to playing DnD 4e. As far as the claim that 4e is "unbreakable", well my gaming group hasn't seen the 4e rules yet. If it's broken, they'll find it. Then they'll exploit it like a cheap hooker, as they've done to 3rd edition. I can't wait!!!!
I've never played CCGs. So the whole power options thing is new to me. I like it. Still have no plans to play CCGs.
Thanks to Cruelaide and Guillaume Godbout for the linkyies. I guess I'm looking for things to make me excited about 4e. Those articles fit the bill. Mahalo!
Thank you Lazaro for the work you've put into the transcription. It couldn't have been fun. Unfortunately, the answers only mad me sadder :( To badd. I here the violin music. As for me, after listening to the podcast, I am even more excited about playing 4e.
I liked the 4e rogue. A rogue's wit and speed are more deadly than ever. Sneak attack is even more prolific. I'm guessing the skill "thievery" is a catch all for things like pick pocket (yeahh remember that one), open locks, disarm traps. I like that; simple, faster, easier equals smarter for me(the smarter formula simple+ faster+ easier= SMARTER). Hopefully new 4e source books will offer new rogue builds and optional tactics with new powers. You know those capitalists at WotC, are thinking about it as another way to stealth my hard earned money. the one thing I did not like.., No hit die...,mmm make me sad, I like to roll them dice. Common how can it be role playing with no dice to roll.
The character renderings are scarry. I am not impressed. The virtual game table screen shot was cool though.
that's because my battlemat is 2 dimensional grid not a 3 dimensional virtual representation of dungeon. I sure hope the virtual game table can support 3 dimensional battles: because my gaming group likes to fly arround (A lot of headaches with that).
1) Yes! I can't wait for the 4 edition! 2) Yes! Especially if the quality I expect from paizo continues with the 4 edition. 3) No. I've moved on with each new edition and will most likely continue that trend.
In others it's actually complimentary. I think Greek mothers spit on there babies' faces for good luck. I'm guessing here,on something I may or may not have seen on TV.
[They should've stayed with 3.5E as long as possible. Give me the game and someone like me can easily get 3.5E to stretch out a good 20 years. I was playing 1st edition AD&D, 20 years ago. I'm sure there are poeple still playing 1st editionn AD&D. I hope to be playing DnD 8.0 in 20 years. But if your still playing 3rd edition and those Grognard hold outs from 1st AD&D are still arround and playing, I hope we are all still haveing fun playing Dungeons and Dragons.
Actually, it varies by culture. In American culture, it's disrepectful and, given fear of blood-borne diseases, likely to trigger assault charges. In some cultures, it's a deadly insult. In others it's actually complimentary. I would diffinitly get in trouble in a culure where spitting on someone is a compliment. In my culture you can get arrested for assault for spitting on someone. Spit on me, you better run fast, because I'll assault you with my fists. Since we are talking about WotC in America, where spitting on someone is an assault (not just an insult), I would still offer better alternatives to expressing ones discontent with WotC, than spitting on them.
This is true... The "down side" of freedom of expression... :DIt wouldn't be understandable just rude and nasty. You would earn a face full of nuckles for that kind of crap. Spitting on some one isn't freedom of expression. It's assault! By all means beatch, grip, yell, scream, pout in a corner, but don't spit on someone and pretend it's freedom of expression. In fact the best way a person can express there dislike, nay hatred for WotC and what there are "Doing" to DnD 4e, is not to purchase the product. Continue to play DnD as who always have.
WOW nto DnD silly!
Can I get some free miniatures?
Sadly fighters or any class in my campaign are pulling off Power Ranger moves. I encourage my players to describe what thier character is doing in combat; and who under thirty hasn't seen Power Rangers.
I agree with the 4e a new fantasy game. New rules. New "core" setting. But for me it still feels D&D. there is still six ability score, hitpoints, armor class, levels, etc. From Greyhawk to Ebberon through Dark Sun and Planscape, D&D has always been able to handle diverse settings. I haven't seen anything stating that you cannot play campaigns with such diversity in 4e. P>S> I really feel for Forgoten Realms fans. WotC was brutal in beating the Forgoten Realms into shape of the 4e "core" setting. OUCH!!!
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