Sgtdrill's page

 The most glaring one is that it's currently not doing a good job of reducing the number of magic item use-per-day pools at higher levels.

That's troubling.... seems to indicate an even more limiting system is being contemplated to replace it. My players are going to lose their minds.... they already hate resonance as it is.

Apparently its a minority opinion, but I disagree strongly. Prepared casting is a cornerstone of Pathfinder.

I like that there's variety - do you want the wizard and have more to choose from but must choose ahead of time? Or the Sorceror, less to choose from but can choose on the fly. The 'best of both worlds' Arcanist stuff bugs the heck out of me.

This has absolutely nothing to do with what is going on in the gameplay, but I just took a browse through the background generator and... I may have accidentally made Kane REALLY high up on the nobility chain!

To quote:

Quote:

Duke: You are the child of a duke or duchess, the most powerful noble in the realm apart from the royal family. Your parents attend directly to the monarch and have the highest place at court. Your lands, titles, and estates are significant, and many lords and knights serve under your parents' command.

So, uh... when I said he was the son of a Duke, I didn't know he was a mere couple steps from the crown of Taldor itself! It also makes his disinterest in his parent's court all the more telling... unless the GM would like me to lower his rank, I'm totally gonna keep that and play off it!

This is like that rich kid who hangs out with his middle class friends not realizing what a big deal with family's name actually is.

You're like Sinatra, and we're the rest of the Rat pack :)

Davick, to be honest, I don't think anybody is attacking you or your beliefs. They are just saying they disagree with your interpretation of the relevant passages, as you've laid it out. Perhaps restating a different way would help clear the matter up?

Are you essentially saying that maybe a passage saying the non-theists have just as happy an afterlife as theists would help?

New Identified Problem #12: Janky Lockpicking Rules: The rules for picking complex locks are tedious. Oh so very tedious. They involve the rogue's player making roll after roll after roll just to unlock a complex door, until they critically fail and snap their lockpick, or until the door finally budges. In this game, the Dexterity 16 cleric removed their breastplate to try to unlock a door with a DC 20, three-success lock. After 26, yes, 26 consecutive rolls, they had snapped a total of four lockpicks, and the door remained locked. Everyone else was twiddling their thumbs and simply watching this embarrassment unfold. What is this, a Bethesda game? This needs to go.

My players didn't even bother after trying a little. They just hacked every door to pieces.

I think I failed a Spot check

Forgot to add one more BAD:

4) Requiring an hour to identify magic items. Theoretically it increases the mystery of any found magic, but realistically requiring this even for potions seems bizarre. For example, without going into details, certain Chapters of Doomsday Dawn are time sensitive. That being the case, why even bother including magic items as treasure? They won't usable anyway.

At the very least, provide some way to circumvent that time limit. Reintroduce the Identify spell perhaps, but instead of providing a bonus, have it reduce the time required?

Example:

Level 1 - 20 minutes
Heightened(+1): Reduce the time required by 5 minutes, to a minimum of 1 minute.

Ran Chapter 1 of Doomsday Dawn on Sunday, wanted to provide some brief feedback from the players and I, on matters not covered by the surveys.

The Party:
Human Bard
Goblin Alchemist
Human Ranger
Dwarven Wizard

The GOOD:
1) The spellcasters were VERY pleased with the new magic system - particularly the fact that cantrips are decent now. Initially they expressed misgivings about the spells per day count going down from PF1, but after playing for a while they changed their tune.

2) The action economy - universally loved. Simplifies matters while still providing a structure. One said that they used to get frustrated when a cool idea wouldn't pan out because of PF1's action economy, but with PF2's she felt the freedom to do "cool stuff".

3) Exploration mode - they liked that it was codified somewhat, and could lead to more appropriate initiative rolls. One expressed a bit of hesitation because Dexterity wasn't the be-all-end-all of initiative any more, but they ended up seeing the logic of it.

The CONFLICTED:
1) The skill system. There was a feeling that nobody is significantly better than anybody else under the new system - that a legendary rogue would only be marginally better at Stealth than a dwarven cleric of the same level, stat mods aside. Once said that it feels like there's no room for specialists in the new system, no way to truly feel like you're extraordinary at something. They understood the importance of flattening the numbers to make high level play less ridiculous, but that this is not the best way. Another player suggested that instead of proficiency levels providing a flat bonus, perhaps they act as multipliers. For example:
Untrained - Stat mod only
Trained - 1/3 level + Stat
Expert - 1/2 level + Stat
Master - 2/3 level + Stat
Legendary - level + Stat

2) Resonance - They understood the logic behind this one as well, but expressed concerns on how it would play out. They agreed to reserve judgement until we got to play the higher level Chapters, when the players might actually have some magic items on which to use Resonance. In particular, the Alchemist expressed concerns. She saw herself at higher level, unable to use any magic items because unlike everyone else, she had to use all her Resonance on a class feature. Perhaps split off Advanced/Quick Alchemy into its own pool and use power points, and reserve Resonance for magic items only?

The BAD:
1) Lore skill - Much confusion on this one. It was unclear how specific lore had to get - the module mentioned "Gnoll Lore", which given how limited skill advances feel seems a ridiculous choice to make. Or should it be analogous to the old Knowledge skills like History and Geography? Given the examples given, those categories seemed too broad. In the end, nobody took any Lore skills except those granted by backgrounds.

The feeling was that this skill needed more structure - perhaps even a specialization system. A listing of categories, like:

History
Grography
Planes
Nobility
etc

Then give people an extra initial proficiency rank if they want to specialize further, starting at Expert - for example, Chelaxian History, Mwangi Expanse Geography, Ethereal Plane, etc.

2) The Dying rules - these are a confusing mess. Nobody could understand how one could be at full HPs from magical healing, and still have the Dying Status. The intent was clear - a desire to stop people from being able to pop back up after being taken to 0hp with no repercussions. But nobody liked the implementation, and nobody understood that intent. Since its magic, why would there need to be realistic repercussions? The thought was that it was "the power of God", so why punish outside of consuming party resources as usual. One suggestion was to reduce the dying threshold to Dying 3, and that any increase to HP that brings them above 0 remove all Dying status.

3) The players found the format of the character sheet jarring - the feeling was that there weren't enough free text fields, nor enough lines for equipment. And that needed numbers were hard to find - though they admitted that would get better as they got used to it.
Additionally the format of the rule book was a bit difficult. For example:
-a) Wizards - one of their main class features involved specializing in a particular school of magic, but the spell list had no way to determine school short of looking up each spell individually
-b) The color coding of rarities - but reading the forums, that's a known issue
-c) The feeling was that conditions should be in an appendix in the back of the book for ease of use - there are so many, and most are new, so they would need to be referenced often.
-d) It was understood that this was intended to be its own animal, but nobody could see why at least a few pages weren't devoted to major changes from 1st edition.

I mean, it's a lot easier to act as though your character does not know something, when the player in fact does not know what that thing.

So that's my standard for secret rolls- if it's something the character should not know, barring a certain result, (stealth and perception are like this) they don't need to see the dice.

Sure this hurts the players in the sense that they are super-beings who win all the time, but it helps the players be characters.

Absolutely agree, and for me this isn't a PF2 thing, I've been doing it for years. A big one for me is detecting traps. It should always be, "you find a trap" or "you detect no traps", without the player knowing what they rolled.

Besides, I don't get how this is removing agency. Its a random dice roll - what does it matter who rolls the dice? The PCs actions are not in any way controlled or directed. Unless somebody is cheating, how is player agency removed?

I will agree that the dying rules are needlessly complex and goofy. The wizard got poisoned, so he kept returning to 1hp, then uimmediately back to 0 and dying, then dying 3, then hero point, then no longer dying, but poison damage made him dying again, etc.

To echo others, nope. My group is looking forward to it.... aside from some wonky wording everybody likes it mostly.

Maybe its a brand loyalty thing? My group rotates games through different systems - Deadlands, Shadowrun, Rogue Trader.

So perhaps because we have less of an attachment to any one ruleset, the changes don't bug us as much? While more dedicated/conservative tables are the ones rebelling against the drastic changes?

Not saying anybody's opinions are wrong or right, just wondering if there's a pattern.

I think I found something that shouldn't work, but per Playtest RAW it seems to.

1) The section on multiple attack penalty on p305 states: "The second time you use an attack action (anything with the attack trait) during your turn, you take a –5 penalty to your attack roll."

2) Flurry of Blows for Monk states: " FLURRY OF BLOWS Frequency Once per round. Make two unarmed Strikes. If both hit the same creature, combine their damage and enhancements for the purpose of resistances and weaknesses" NOTE - no Attack trait.

3) It also states that Flurry is an action, not an activity: "Flurry of Blows You can attack rapidly with your fists. You gain the Flurry of Blows action."

4) Even if one did consider it an activity that costs 1 action, p296 states: "An activity doesn’t count as any of its dependent actions or other abilities." So the two Strikes under flurry don't count as Strike actions, thus don't gain the Strike attack trait.

So, how do multiple attack penalties work for Monks? Should Flurry have the 'attack' trait? Should it also have wording like Swipe: "A Swipe counts as two attacks for your multiple attack penalty."?

Or put another way, when monks flurry should it be:

Flurry & 2 Strikes - 4 attacks: full, full, full, -4

or

Flurry & 2 Strikes - 4 attacks: full, full, -4, -8

or

Flurry & 2 Strikes - 4 attacks: full, -4, -8, -8

or something else entirely?

If i wasn't raging, I'd use my move action to pinch Sheridan's butt.

Why the high (16) intelligence requirement? Do normal wizards need a 16 intelligence? Why would a dabbler require such a high stat?

I got two answers for ya.

1. To reflect the fact that in addition to learning their main profession at the normal rate, they're also learning a whole new profession - so they better have some aptitude for the new profession.

Kinda like having a minor in college - say, English major with a Physics minor. If you don't have the ability and skill to handle a whole different field at the same time, you're destined for failure.

2. And, of course, balance - same reason two-weapon fighting requires a 15 Dex. Multiclassing is a great damn feat, its going to have higher pre-requisites than normal.

Also, the thing about the grappling hook? I was totally scouring the net for some reference to a rope or length and I couldn't find any. My "who sells a grappling hook with no rope" was a comment on the SRD and my own reading comprehension.

I always have such a hard time managing carrying capacity...

Which, of course, is why you have Ngai :)

--------------Before the noise----------------

Ngai reaches below the table to give Sheridan's hand a squeeze. Speaking just as softly in an attempt to cheer him, she says, "If I barf, would it be another faux pas?" With a soft chuckle, she continues, "Listen, about last night... I was an ass. You know that conflilct with authority makes me nervous, but its not a good excuse to make our time here harder. I'm sorry."

--------------After the noise------------------

Ngai bolts up out of her chair. She begins to reach for her sword, but shoots a glance at Talia and reconsiders. Hands empty, she runs toward the door, and assuming an immediate threat doesn't present itself, out into the street.

As the town comes into sight, Ngai braces herself against yet ANOTHER bump of the cart. My rear end is going to be permanently imprinted with the wood grain of this bench, she thinks to herself as she grits her teeth. An audible sigh of relief escapes her as the cart rolls to a stop, awaiting entry into town.

Swinging down, she grabs her sword and stows it across her back. Walking up to the town gate she tries her best to adopt a pleasing smile - being 6' 5" with green hair can be off-putting enough, no need to antagonize anyone. Dodging a quick pinch from Sheridan, she gives him a friendly slap on the shoulder. "So what's the process, this is my first time. How long do they generally keep us waiting?"

Sgtdrill wrote:

Xenocrat wrote:

If I'm not mistaken elves get low light vision, 30' speed, Elf language, AND a ancestry feat at 1st level.

A half-elf...can choose two of those three, with the option to pick Diplomacy instead, and in the (distant) future has a broader array of choices, but does NOT get a separate feat at 1st level.

That's pretty terrible!

But look at it from another perspective.

What if were a sub-class of wizard who had fewer spells known at 1st, and was able to cast fewer spells at first.

But from level 2 on, their progression was identical to a Wizard in these two areas, with the added distinction of being able to choose their spells from the Druid spell list as well.

I think you meant you can pick one Druid spell at levels 5, 9, 13, and 17 in return for permanently stunted spell progression at your highest level.

Nope, meant what I typed. Post-level-1, half-breeds get the same feat progression as everyone else. All that's required is to choose a specific feat at 1st, which is more powerful than other feats in the category, and still contains some flexibility.

In exchange, you can go full power-gamer and cherry pick feats from 3 different categories - one of which no other race has access to.

If anything, its a strict power upgrade.

If I'm not mistaken elves get low light vision, 30' speed, Elf language, AND a ancestry feat at 1st level.

A half-elf...can choose two of those three, with the option to pick Diplomacy instead, and in the (distant) future has a broader array of choices, but does NOT get a separate feat at 1st level.

That's pretty terrible!

But look at it from another perspective.

What if were a sub-class of wizard who had fewer spells known at 1st, and was able to cast fewer spells at first.

But from level 2 on, their progression was identical to a Wizard in these two areas, with the added distinction of being able to choose their spells from the Druid spell list as well.

You're trading a bit of front-end power for increased power and flexibility later.

Which kind of even fits the 'half-breed' lore. Tough upbringing, but that same upbringing only hardened them, allowing them to be more successful later in life.

I love this, and look forward to trying it.

And if your setting has half-elves and half-orcs where the other parent isn't human, say half-orc/half-dwarf characters, you can just allow the half-orc feat for dwarf characters and the rest of the work is already taken care of.

This is my favorite part. In fact, I'd love to see half-(other base races). For example, maybe half-gnome heritage feat, to represent the offspring of a halfling/gnome union.

Just as a note - anybody can find any kind of trap, magical or otherwise. Even if we have nobody who can 'disarm' them, if we can find them we can find creative ways to get through.

Jesus, are shapeshifters getting shafted AGAIN?

Guys, it's okay for people to have fun.

Seems ok to me, but I'll probably need to reserve judgement until we see what polymorph spells are out there.

Also, the party looks like it's shaping up to be three or four sub-optimal frontliners (glowing rogue, weapon bond wizard, grapple monk, combat cleric) and that sounds like hilarious fun.

And one optimal gun guy, behind that front line, loving life.

Timezone - Central US

Number of current PbP campaigns - 0

Knowledge of this module? - None

Excaliburproxy wrote:

Naw, man. Return of the Runelords has a time travel plot and someone is going to step on a fairy 50,000 years ago and then goblins are gonna be a bunch of chill bros. You'll see. They will be the chillest bros in Cheliax or whatever.

Full disclosure: I don't play in Golarion and have no dog in this fight (which is a stroke of luck given that dog slicers are about).

I'm aware you're kidding, but for the record anyway:

All time travel in Return of the Runelords seems to be within a 10 year period or so [i]at the most/i]. There is no serious retconning time travel stuff.

I recently finished running Reign Of Winter, and as part of extending the campaign the party did a bit of time travel. The story is that Baba Yaga gained her 9th and 10th mythic tier by killing Aroden and opening the Worldwound.

As the final arc, the party had to find the Orb of Dragonkind, figure out a way to destroy it releasing the soul of the entrapped Great Wyrm Time Dragon, then True Res her so that she would send them back in time. All so they could intervene, keep Baba Yaga from gaining the immortality mythic power, and finally kill her for good.

Since my next DMed games will be the playtest, that's my in-game rationale for the PF2 changes - the players changed history in earth shattering ways, and this is the result.

I know that many will be using the playtest adventure specifically written for the purpose, but to me that means that playtest experiences outside of that will be valuable.

With that in mind, I'll be converting Giantslayer to PF2. Seemed like the AP that would be easier than most, as many of the opponents are pretty common monsters.

Because of the time frame involved, I'll be running book 1, book 3, and book 5 only. The players will be making new characters for each book, so that my party of 4 players can try out all 12 classes. My two main concerns regarding conversion are save/skill DCs, and conversion of magic items - but I'm sure I'll figure it out.

Anybody else planning on an AP conversion? Not sure how long it will take me to get mine ready, but I would be happy to share my conversion once complete.

If so, a wand of invisibility is going to cost more like 1,000 gp and be something you find/buy/get closer to 10th level than to 4th. And it would invert the relationship between staves and wands, insomuch as...

Then maybe diverge dramatically from what wands were. Instead of multi-use spells in a can, go wacky with them.

Perhaps:

1) They can act as batteries, in which you store an additional spell known, but requires resonance invested to use.

2) Spend a point of resonance to remove the need for a Somatic action on a spell you are casting.

3) A particular wand is linked to a school of magic, and while wielded (and invested), they grant an additional number of spell points in that school. So wands would have degrees - Mark I, Mark II, etc.

Just spitballing, but if wands are kind of the odd man out in PF2.... and it sounds like they are..... why not fundamentally change their nature?

I actually quite dig the concept of Resonance, and during the playtest I'll try it as written.

But if it goes to live unchanged I will 100% be house ruling it. Making magic item use dependent on Charisma automatically makes any non-Charisma class MAD (or even more MAD).

It seems to make much more sense to make it primary-attribute-dependent, similar to Starfinder's RP.

Do you maybe mean this?

Builds

Should also look at Adept. Some early entry spells there too... like Heal as a 5th lv spell.

Two big tricks I use:

1) When they go to do something - open a door, identify an item, eat a sandwich - just ask in a neutral tone, "So.... that means you touch it, right?"

Even if there's nothing bad about it, its fun watching the light of panic in the players' eyes.

2) A deck of many things. No player can resist it.

1) Trap a mithril golem in a forcecage spell, and start shaving pieces of mithril off him for sale

2) cast Make Whole to repair that damage, and repeat step 1

Yeah, we have several months of Skull & Shackles ahead of us, so it won't impact the campaign at all.

I'm just so hyped that I can't help the curiosity level :)

Sevus wrote:

Marigold Malachite wrote:

I'll be running it, and my players look like they're settling on:

Mystic Theurge (taking advantage of the new FAQ ruling)

Paladin

Druid

Sorceror

I'm limiting them to base races, so they're still batting that one around.

No backgrounds yet, we're waiting for part 1 to be released.

Sorry, but what FAQ ruling is this?

Seconding this question. I love the MT as is, but if theres something that makes it even better I'm all ears.

Spell-like abilities can now be used to substitute for spell-casting requirements on PrCs. For example, An Aasimar can cast Daylight 1/day - this is a 3rd level spell, thus satisfies the requirement to enter the Eldritch Knight PrC.

Here's some info that might help: A thread about it

Left here, without further comment:Two-hundred-forty dollars worth of pudding

Dwarven Mystic Theurges can be pretty sweet.

Level 1 forgemaster cleric with heighten spell feat gives you 2nd lv divine spells

Level 1 wizard/witch with magic lineage trait and heighten spell gives you 2nd lv arcane spells

Lets you start the prc at 3rd, so yer only 1 level behind on each side.