SentientShadow's page

(will be awkward if no one responds...)

Woops...

So, I've begun a new game of Pathfinder 1e recently and somehow only recently discovered the existence of this new magic system. A brief read sparked a thought, a character I've wanted to play for ages finally made possible.

Telekinetically wielded swords en masse!

Further reading lead me to the Armorist as the obvious choice, but specifically the Soaring Blade archetype. Allowing me to not only wield my weapons with telekinesis, but also summon/create them from the power of my magic alone with a variety of options, but also with full BAB and a solid Hit Die.

And so as I created my character I encountered a few questions that I now come to this community in the hopes of finding answers or at least get pointed in the right direction.

My GM in this game is new to GMing, and Pathfinder in general so naturally I'd like to ease their burden by maximising my knowledge of what I can and can't do; as well as do what I want to be able to do with minimal house rules. So with one exception (clearly called out as such), I'd like this answers to be RAW/RAI only; but if you happen to know of a house rule that helps something, have used it yourself (or been present through its implementation) to good (or exceptional) effect, chuck it in and I'll run it by my GM with my own thoughts added (for the record, I'm relatively experienced in the sytem, but with a relatively small scope (two GMs, one who'd been running all sorts of RPGs for years and another who had a solid foundation of the ruleset when beginning to DM))

With the stage (mostly?) set, onto the actual questions:

I.
Dancing Weapon (Telekinesis magic talent) allows you to treat any weapon you manipulate as if you were wielding it, imparting the ability to use feats and such with it. When manipulating a two-handed weapon (or potentially a one-handed weapon if it also counts), do I get the extra 50% damage from sources such as Strength (or relevant stat) and Power Attack? Or do I treat it as if it were being wielded in one hand regardless (removing any reason to use a two-handed weapon (except in some niche cases that almost certainly don't apply here))?

II.
The Death From Above feat gives a +5 to attack when charging (in place of the normal bonus) when charging from higher ground. With Accelerate (Telekinesis magic talent) you're able to initiate charges with your telekinetic weapons; can I move my weapon up with a basic move and then double the remainder to accelerate it at a target for the +5 bonus in a single turn (since this counts as charging but isn't actually charging thus isn't a full-round action)? Or does it have be set-up the turn before the charge (greatly diminishing the usefulness of the feat)?

III.
With Dancing Weapon + Divided Mind (Telekinesis magic talent), you're able to take multiple attacks with your weapons, but no more than you would already be able to; how can I maximise the number of attacks to more fully synergise with this ability? (Without relying on my class, I know my options within the choices at hand (ie Blade Swarm Arsenal Trick); and further bearing in mind my relatively limited feats. Eleven (ten for character advancement plus one for beign human) at 20, but can't guarantee we'll even get that far.)

IV.
I've gone over the enhancements provided by the Armorist class through Summon and Bound Equipment, even those unlocked through Arsenal Tricks, and find it to be lacking the Impact enchantment. Obviously, since the odds of this being an unintentional oversight seems pretty low (correct me with links if I'm wrong!), it would likely have to be house ruled in (if at all).
Thus I pose this in-depth hypothetical, if you were the GM, would you house rule it for a player? If not, why not?
If so, would it cost an Arsenal Trick or be a free addition? If it costs an Arsenal Trick, what other enchantments would you group with it (since from my reading over it, they're generally grouped into groups of two to four enchantments)? Or would it be its own Arsenal Trick?
Last question: would it stack with Forceful Telekinesis? Again, why/why not?

Thanks for the assist in advance (will be awkward if no one responds...), I'm able to elaborate further, just ask away.

For reference/starting points:
Dancing Weapon: http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/telekinesis#toc8
Death From Above: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/death-from-above-combat/
Accelerate: http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/telekinesis#toc6
Divided Mind: http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/telekinesis#toc9
Armorist: http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/armorist
Arsenal Tricks: http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/armorist#toc7
Impact: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abi lities/impact/
Forceful Telekinesis: http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/telekinesis#toc13
(In case you can't tell, I don't know how to hyperlink words here...)

Actually, as it turns out, this was FAQ'd in the Mummy's Mask set where this first appeared.

And actually selecting a Sword to replace another weapon where your deck couldn't support the favored card type is a-okay.

Ha ha ha, gotta admire there balls for not disallowing you to build a deck without a favoured card.

Thanks for the find, wouldn't've thought to look at Mummy's Mask as it's the one version I've not played.

Yes it'll cause an infinite loop. That being said, you're also choosing the replacements in his deck - the only way you're forced to have an illegal deck is if you banished the only Sword(s) in Valeros' deck and you picked up a non-weapon Sword in the scenario (so you can't replace it with a choice of cards).

In a home game, you'd probably just houserule the replacement of a level 0 Sword or something like that to keep your deck from going infinite.

But it's not an 'illegal' deck as you put it. I found nothing in the rules that states you 'must' have a favoured card in your deck; the fact that this possibility exists at all means it's an issue that needs to be addressed.

So, in the new Core Set we've encountered a favoured card issue that I can't seem to find a resolution for online; if there is one, just link me to it and I'll edit this post to reflect it.

Using Valeros as our example, his favoured card type is 'Sword Weapon'. So the issue we've encountered is that not every weapon is also a sword and that it is quite easy to not have any Swords in his deck.

If this occurs, what happens during Valeros's initial hand?

By the rules as written, it would seem to be an infinite loop of Valeros drawing his hand, not having a 'sword weapon', drawing hands until he runs out of cards in his deck, re-shuffling and drawing then looping with no end as without a 'sword weapon' in his deck, he will *never* draw his favoured weapon into his starting hand and thus can never stop trying to draw his starting hand.

How do we resolve this loop?

Okay, another update (I'm not just sitting here idle waiting for responses of course.)

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STRENN
Male Human Theurge

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Born the son of a wizard, Strenn was obsessed with magic as he grew up but felt as though following in his father’s studies would’ve limited him. He studied arcane theories and the miracles that priests and clerics could work. Eventually, he found a way to cast their magic without channelling any outside, let alone divine, force. A leap ahead for him, and so he took to adventuring to put his theories into practice.

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STR…..d4 ([_]1)
DEX….d6 ([_]1) ([_]2)
CON.…d6 ([_]1) ([_]2)
INT…..d10 ([_]1) ([_]2) ([_]3) ([_]4)
…Arcane +2
…Craft +1
…Knowledge +1
WIS….d10 ([_]1) ([_]2) ([_]3) ([_]4)
…Divine +2
CHA...d6 ([_]1) ([_]2)

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Hand Size…7 ([_]8)

Choose a spell with the Arcane and Attack traits and a spell with the Divine and Attack traits. When you play one for your combat check, you may recharge the other to add 1d6 ([_]1) ([_]2) and that card’s traits to the check.

When you acquire a spell on your turn, you may immediately explore ([_] or increase your hand size by 1 until the start of your next turn).

When you recharge a spell, you may recharge a card to add 1d6 to the recharge check.

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Card List
Weapon…….-
Spell………..8 ([_]9) ([_]10) ([_]11) ([_]12)
Armour…….-
Item………...2 ([_]3) ([_]4)
Ally…………2 ([_]3) ([_]4)
Blessing…….3 ([_]4) ([_]5)
Favoured Card Type: SPELL

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Strenn (Battlemage)
Hand Size…7 ([_]8) ([_]9) ([_]10)

Choose a spell with the Arcane and Attack traits and a spell with the Divine and Attack traits. When you play one for your combat check, you may recharge the other to add 1d6 ([_]1) ([_]2) ([_]3) ([_]4) and that card’s traits to the check.

When you acquire a spell on your turn, you may immediately explore ([_] or increase your hand size by 1 until the start of your next turn).

When you recharge a spell, you may recharge a card to add 1d6 to the recharge check.

([_] At the end of your turn, when you reset your hand, you may recharge spells instead of discarding them.)

([_] After you successfully defeat a monster, if your check had the Arcane and Divine traits, you may recharge any number of cards to draw an equal number from your deck ([_] or you may recharge one card of your choice from your discard pile instead).)

([_] After you play a spell, you may recharge a card to draw a card.)

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Strenn (Thaumaturge)
Hand Size…7 ([_]8) ([_]9) ([_]10) ([_]11) ([_]12)

Choose a spell with the Arcane and Attack traits and a spell with the Divine and Attack traits. When you play one for your combat check, you may recharge the other to add 1d6 ([_]1) ([_]2) and that card’s traits to the check.

When you acquire a spell on your turn, you may immediately explore ([_] or increase your hand size by 1 until the start of your next turn)([_] or recharge a card from your discard pile)

When you attempt to recharge a spell, you may recharge a card to add 1d6 to the recharge check.

([_] If you would take damage outside of your turn, you may recharge a card to reduce the damage taken by 2 ([_] 4).)

([_] If you successfully recharge a spell after playing it, you may instead shuffle it into your deck instead.)

Oh, right. Thanks Axoq. I suppose I should review changes after I make them rather than assuming others are right.

Skill Dice = 42
Card List; Initial/Upgrades = 15/10
Standard Power Feats = 4

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Strenn 
Male Human Theurge
Born the son of a wizard, Strenn was obsessed with magic as he grew up but felt as though following in his father’s studies would’ve limited him. He studied arcane theories and the miracles that priests and clerics could work. Eventually, he found a way to cast their magic without channelling any outside, let alone divine, force. A leap ahead for him, and so he took to adventuring to put his theories into practice.
Strength.......d4.....[_] +1 
Dexterity…....d6......[_] +1 [_] +2 
Constitution..d6......[_] +1 [_] +2
Intelligence...d10....[_] +1 [_] +2 [_] +3 [_] +4 
--Arcane +2 
--Craft +1 
--Knowledge +1 
Wisdom.........d10....[_] +1 [_] +2 [_] +3 [_] +4 
--Divine +2 
Charisma.......d6.....[_] +1 [_] +2

HAND SIZE:......7.....[_] 8
Choose a spell with the Arcane and Attack traits and a spell with the Divine and Attack traits. When you play one for your combat check, you may recharge the other to add 1d6 ([_] +1)([_] +2) and that card’s traits, to the check.

When you acquire a spell on your turn, you may immediately explore ([_] or increase your hand size by 1 until the start of your next turn)

When you recharge a spell, you may recharge a card to add 1d6 to your recharge check.

CARD LIST 
Weapon – 
Spell 8 [_] 9 [_] 10 [_] 11 [_] 12 
Armour – 
Item 2 [_] 3 [_] 4 
Ally 2 [_] 3 [_] 4 
Blessing 3 [_] 4 [_] 5 
FAVOURED CARD TYPE: SPELL 
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Think I got it right this time. Put the last skill feat in Con since Humans tend to be persistent despite all odds and it was more suitable than Strength considering I want that to be a weakness.

Alright, here we are:

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Strenn 
Male Human Theurge
Born the son of a wizard, Strenn was obsessed with magic as he grew up but felt as though following in his father’s studies would’ve limited him. He studied arcane theories and the miracles that priests and clerics could work. Eventually, he found a way to cast their magic without channelling any outside, let alone divine, force. A leap ahead for him, and so he took to adventuring to put his theories into practice.
Strength.......d4.....□ +1 
Dexterity…....d6......□ +1 □ +2 
Constitution..d6......□ +1 
Intelligence...d10....□ +1 □ +2 □ +3 □ +4 
--Arcane +2 
--Craft +1 
--Knowledge +1 
Wisdom.........d10....□ +1 □ +2 □ +3 □ +4 
--Divine +2 
Charisma.......d6.....□ +1
HAND SIZE:......7.....□ 8 □ 9
Choose a spell with the Arcane and Attack traits and a spell with the Divine and Attack traits. When you play one for your combat check, you may recharge the other to add 1d6 (□ +1)(□ +2) and that card’s traits, to the check.

When you acquire a spell on your turn, you may immediately explore (□ or increase your hand size by 1 until the start of your next turn)

When you recharge a spell, you may recharge a card to add 1d6 to your recharge check.
CARD LIST 
Weapon – 
Spell 8 □ 9 □ 10 □ 11 □ 12 
Armour – 
Item 2 □ 3 □ 4 
Ally 2 □ 3 □ 4 
Blessing 3 □ 4 □ 5 
FAVOURED CARD TYPE: SPELL 
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So now what do you think about this revision?

First, I’d like to say: holy s+++, thanks for the responses. I’m new to forums overall, let alone getting such useful responses.

So, as far as addressing changes. I understand that the primary concern is the underwhelming initial power. I’m honestly not sure what I was trying to do with it now that I look back on it (haven’t actually been here since I posted it first).
So I’ll probably shifting that to be more akin to the Magus example (and Brother Tyler’s recommendation).

The next concern was to do with the Mystic Theurge’s original classes regarding the prestige class. Would just like to mention that this character is not based on the Prestige Class; but rather the 3rd party class produced by Kobold Press, the Theurge as it has been, by far, my favourite iteration and much closer to what it should have been (in my opinion).

And the idea behind creating a theurge (beyond just being one of my favourite spellcasting classes in Pathfinder) is that there were characters who focused on spells (wizards and sorcerer) or characters who could play both types spells (bard and as I have been informed, a specific character role for one cleric) but none who really excelled at both, which is a niche I’d personally enjoy playing, even if to the detriment of other capacities.
The purpose of getting feedback is that despite enjoying the character of feeling powerful, if I wanted to ever actually play this guy he’d have to be balanced to the system like every other character and playing a character without fault can be a bit, well… cheated.

So I’ll revise changes and re-post the class shortly to get even more feedback from you guys and once we sort out the base class, I can look to roles. I’m thinking that one will focus on non-combat applications of spells while the other will a battering ram of magical force.

So, looking through the classes for which character decks where available I couldn't help but see a lack of my favourite conceptual character, one who blends arcane and divine magic seamlessly together: the Theurge. Mystic Theurge technically was a prestige class (and one that seems relatively underwhelming in the tabletop game) though my favourite iteration is actually the third-party class.

But in any case, using the Theurge's concept as a base I wanted to design a class that encapsulated the blending of the two magics in a way I thought appropriate to the card game.

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Strenn
Male Human Theurge

Born the son of a wizard, Strenn was obsessed with magic as he grew up but felt as though following in his father’s studies would’ve limited him. He studied arcane theories and the miracles that priests and clerics could work. Eventually, he found a way to cast their magic without channelling any outside, let alone divine, force. A leap ahead for him, and so he took to adventuring to put his theories into practice.

Strength.......d4.....[_] +1
Dexterity......d6.....[_] +1 [_] +2
Constitution...d6.....[_] +1
Intelligence...d10....[_] +1 [_] +2 [_] +3 [_] +4
--Arcane +2
--Craft +1
--Knowledge +1
Wisdom.........d10....[_] +1 [_] +2 [_] +3 [_] +4
--Divine +2
Charisma.......d6.....[_] +1 [_] +2

HAND SIZE:......7.....[_] 8 [_] 9

For you combat check, you may recharge a spell to roll your Arcane skill. ([_] You may also add up to two traits from the recharged spell to the check.)

When you successfully acquire a spell, you may choose to explore again or increase your hand size by 1 until the start of your next turn.

When you play an Arcane or Divine spell, you may recharge a spell of the other type to add 1d6 ([_] +1) to your recharge check.

CARD LIST
Weapon –
Spell 8 [_] 9 [_] 10 [_] 11 [_] 12
Armour –
Item 2 [_] 3 [_] 4
Ally 2 [_] 3 [_] 4
Blessing 3 [_] 4 [_] 5
FAVOURED CARD TYPE: SPELL
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I've not considered anything in the way of roles just yet, but suggestions are appreciated. As are any regarding touch-ups to what I already have.