SITZKRIEG!'s page

I am a simple alien gas bag with a simple request/hope. With the barathu becoming a core book ancestry, I hope the thematic bud drone feat makes it into the book as well. :)

https://www.aonsrd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Bud%20Drone

Thanks and I'll go take a look!

I've only been following peripherally basically coming here to the Paizo Starfinder front page and forums monthly to see if a new playtest packet is out. Have they confirmed a second packet with the missing classes/ancestries/etc? I'm glad as I was really looking forward to seeing the changes to the mechanic.

Thanks. I was trying to see if a goblin summoner benefits from this feat (Goblin Scuttle) if his or her eidolon moves next to them.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4441

"Trigger: An ally ends a move action adjacent to you

You take advantage of your ally's movement to adjust your position. You Step."

Is an Eidolon considered an "ally" for game effects/conditions/triggers? I did a search on the wiki that returned back LOTS of entries but I didn't see one defining the term (though I admit my Aon-search-fu is weak).

I appreciate the advice above as I'm not familiar with PF2e as a system so wasn't aware of certain tips (like Runic Body). I do hope that I get to put some of this into practice sometime in the (near) future!

SITZKRIEG! wrote:

I've always wanted to try a summoner as my first PF2e character

I'd advise caution here.

Summoner is a complex class to build out, and majorly complex class to play.

I've had the odd luck of only seeing it played by players completely new to Pathfinder 2E every single time I have seen someone play it, four times now. And every one of those players has struggled.

I've seen three of them give up. One of those give up on Pathfinder 2E itself as a result.

I appreciate the post and echo the sentiment (and even addressed it on my first post in this thread) but I'm honestly not overly concerned about it personally though I'm not discounting it either as a very valid general warning. I obviously don't know anything about the players you've encountered but, as for me, I'm a GM experienced in multiple crunchy systems over the decades (including D&D 3.x and PF1) and running simultaneously multiple NPCs in both roleplaying and combat encounters as well as playing characters for years in multiple systems with lesser pets like animal companions.

If I'm being completely honest, playing the summoner/eidolon concept is the primary reason I'm interested in trying out PF2e at all as its something I've been unable to do in other systems I've tried for the most part. Admittedly, my tastes have run over the past couple years to more rules light systems but I haven't forgotten my crunchy roots either. If I end up souring on the experience, it'll most likely be because the core PF2e style mechanics don't suit my current tastes and not because of the summoner specifically.

Regardless, your post and point are very valid and I'm not surprised about your experience with it as I do agree that as a caster with an integral pet that the learning curve on the summoner is definitely steeper compared with most other classes.

SITZKRIEG! wrote:

I've always wanted to try a summoner as my first PF2e character with a specific build that isn't possible in that other d20 fantasy game in that I'd like to have dual characters that play (whether naturally or artifically) differently using the eidolon mechanic similar to "twinned" characters in pop culture like Wily Kit and Wily Kat in the Thundercats or the Wonder Power Twins in the old Justice League cartoons.

This is such a fun concept that I've gone and homebrewed an eidolon for it! Although it's unlikely that you'd get to use homebrew at your table, let alone for your first character, hopefully this could give an idea of how the Summoner could work as a pair of twins.

Thanks and I'll take a look! I agree it's a fun concept but I'm obviously biased in that regard. Just to be clear for those reading my highjacking of the thread with my character idea off shot, I don't necessarily mean that the two subcharacters are identical or actually twins (though they could obviously be) but rather "twinned" subcharacters/relationship between the summoner and eidolon was a convienent one word way of describing the concept. They could be just regular siblings or even childhood BFFs... like an imaginary friend that turns out to not be so imaginary as the child grows up! :) The key is that they're so close that they're obviously similar/related even without the arcane mark indicating it.

Errenor wrote:

SITZKRIEG! wrote:

One thing I completely forgot to mention was that I didn't want the world/other player characters to necessarily know the other sub-character wasn't "real". I'd reveal that as needed during roleplay hence why I chose the fey one as it can simply be a humanoid style creature (but obviously with a dual arcane mark on it and the summoner).

I wouldn't expect this a lot. As you yourself posted, the mark makes the connection obvious. And summoners aren't that rare: there should be a lot of people in the world that recognize summoners instantly at a glance on these marks. You can't expect GMs to play along with that, you can't dictate this.

For example, I, GMing in Golarion, wouldn't do that. Maybe only in some forgotten corners of the world far away from common magical knowledge (which are not by coincidence also a home to a lot of summoners) you could expect this to work.

Yeah I missed that part of the OP but Errenor's right; the deception won't work according to rules as written. From AoN:

Your magical connection with your eidolon takes the form of a sigil on each of your bodies. As long as your eidolon is manifested, the sigil glows with light and can't be covered or disguised via any means; it will shine through clothing, appear over cloaks, and remain unaffected by obfuscating magic. This, combined with the way that the two of you clearly act in tandem, makes it readily apparent to an intelligent observer that the two of you are connected in some way, even if the person has never encountered a summoner before...

Now, that doesn't mean your home game can't change the way it works in your Golarion. But in standard Golarion, the connection can't be disguised. Though I'll note that the rules are silent on the summoner using magic to plant a fake identical copy sigil on a third entity, to confuse someone on which two are the real two....

Fair enough and thanks for the clarification. I guess I was just assuming that the mystical tramp stamp's meaning wasn't obvious but admittedly I'm not as knowledgeable as to what's accepted in PF. I just read it as being obvious that the two sub-characters are connected in some what and not automatically that the eidolon is an eidolon and the summoner is a summoner.

Summoners are cool, and you will have fun. But...Summoner-eidolon skills don't work that way. They share skill proficiencies yes but they have their own attributes. Thus if Alice the Summoner is trying to open a door while 50' away Bob the eidolon is talking to a merchant, Alice uses her Str+Athletics while Bob uses his Cha+Diplomacy. The Athletics and Diplomacy will be the same in both cases, but the Str and Cha won't (necessarily) be.

But don't let that stop you! They're fun and you can definitely get that 'two partners' role play experience.

That was my impression on the interaction as well so it definitely wouldn't stop me. As I said, this isn't a power build (is that even a thing with PF2e?) by any stretch and I don't doubt that a dedicated character would be better than my split character/split focus version. I was planning on deviating the stats between them somewhat significantly to give each a subspecialty (though there will be some overlap). On the RP end, I would tend to default consistently to either the eidolon or the summoner to perform each skill in game (with the other potentially aiding). It's silly, overly complicated, and basically gives me two glorified NPCs to run but it's something that I wanted to try someday and wasn't sure if it was truly feasible (it's definitely NOT in D&D). I'm a bit disappointed to hear that there won't be a Player Core 3 book that remasters the class though but it wouldn't stop me from trying if I actually got into a PF2 game locally.

pH unbalanced wrote:

There was an archetype for that in 1E.

For 2E it is absolutely possible to make that work, although the Eidolon will be marked with a rune that identifies it as an Eidolon.

You both get the rune.

One of the alternate builds I thought of was an undead but with my almost complete lack of knowledge regarding the world/setting of pathfinder I figured that NPC attitudes towards undead might be too much to deal with combined with my equally almost complete lack of experience with te rules, lol.

There was an archetype for that in 1E.

For 2E it is absolutely possible to make that work, although the Eidolon will be marked with a rune that identifies it as an Eidolon.

Thanks and I'll have to look that up on the wiki page for guidance/ideas. From my reading, it looks like the rune is obvious but not necessarily specific to a summoner/eidolon (though I'd guess some sort of a lore check might indicate that). I have no idea if there is any further info from an FAQ or subsequent book that clarifies or changes this from the wiki as this entry is my only source for the idea.

"This, combined with the way that the two of you clearly act in tandem, makes it readily apparent to an intelligent observer that the two of you are connected in some way, even if the person has never encountered a summoner before."

https://2e.aonprd.com/Classes.aspx?ID=18

edit: I looked up the archetypes for the summoner/eidolon on the wiki but it looks like it's coming up blank in my browser. Sometimes I have issues with the wiki but the rest of the entries seem to have been working this evening.

https://www.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?Class=Eidolon

I mean fey and elves aren't related in Pathfinder, but I guess yeah it could work. You could also take one of the phantom eidolons and reflavor them as your ideal self or something like that. Let's say your character is a scrawny and weak individual but the eidolon is a brawny and muscular version of you. You don't really need much guidance than that since this is mostly a flavor thing and not something mechanically, unless you want to have your character literally twinned and have to characters with exactly the same two stats and abilities.

Thanks as I didn't know that (re: fey and elves in PF). One thing I completely forgot to mention was that I didn't want the world/other player characters to necessarily know the other sub-character wasn't "real". I'd reveal that as needed during roleplay hence why I chose the fey one as it can simply be a humanoid style creature (but obviously with a dual arcane mark on it and the summoner). Apologies as that is a key element to the exact build I wanted that probably should be mentioned. And, yes, I'd pick the eidolon build that was most different attribute wise to the summoner so that each could have its own strengths (pun intended).

Total PF2e n00b here so apologies if this is a silly question but I figured I'd ask seeing as how there is a rare confluence of circumstances (me coming to the PF forums AND an active Summoner thread!). I've always wanted to try a summoner as my first PF2e character with a specific build that isn't possible in that other d20 fantasy game in that I'd like to have dual characters that play (whether naturally or artifically) differently using the eidolon mechanic similar to "twinned" characters in pop culture like Wily Kit and Wily Kat in the Thundercats or the Wonder Power Twins in the old Justice League cartoons. I was thinking that the fey eidolon along with a similar character like an elf or gnome where depending on which skill was being used then either the eidolon or summoner would actually be doing the check; the same would go with roleplaying where they'd obviously have their own personalities.

I'm not particularly concerned with power (and it doesn't sound like the summoner is considered broken or OP anyways given the topic above) but rather the feeling of playing two characters sort of but not. Is this a pipe dream by someone with no practical knowledge of pf2e (let alone experience of any kind with the summoner specifically!) or something that is possible? I'm a former on and off GM in multiple systems including D&D 3.x for years so I'm not particularly worried about the crunchiness of the system playing with two semi-characters but obviously I don't know if I should be.

I know I'm late to the party (obviously) but I just downloaded the playtest document to see how things were shaping up. I haven't played SF since before the pandemic as my in person group broke up but was curious just in case. I'm surprised and glad to see the barathu becoming a core race in the playtest with lots of options including sizes small to large! I can't quite tell why I'm obsessed with that ancestry but I loved it from the first time I read about them as a playable race and started making characters the same day (though I never played them as I was 8 levels deep in my Veskness at the time!).

A common complaint that I have with alot of modern scifi is the trope of aliens just being humans with an hour or two in the makeup chair each morning even in written/animated fiction. Even massive budget scifi like modern Star Trek has failed to live up to what is possible with both practical effects and CGI nowadays (even killing off my favorite Andorian and only actually even moderately alien character in Strange New Worlds during season 1!). Starfinder obviously added anthropomorphic aliens in 1st edition but I'm glad to see their going full alien in this one with multiple ancestries including my favorite aberration! This blimpy alien vents my gas in your honor (and general direction) as thanks! :)

Also, the 25 playable Starfinder races mentioned in the product description are: astrazoans, astriapis, cephalumes, contemplatives, dragonkin, formians, hadrogaans, hanakans, kalos, kobolds, maraquoi, nuars, pahtras, psacynoids, quorlus, raxilites, ryphorians, scyphozoans, shimreens, SROs, trox, uplifted bears, urgos, vlakas, and worlanisi.

I'm glad to see my favorite (and only!) tiny space radish folk made the list. I'm most curious to hear what options they get!

Honestly I'm right there with you OP. I would love a sort of unarmored option, and I really don't think it's that crazy of an idea.

It would fit a lot of concepts, anything from an unarmored monk like character to a Tyranid monstery PC. Economy wise, there are plenty of ways around not needing to buy weapons regularly. Vanguard, evolutionist, unarmed builds, solarian to a degree, and a few others can get away with spending little to nothing on weapons. Unless there's an unwritten rule that the same can never be said for armour, I don't see why similar situations can't happen.

The main issue is that armour isn't just armour, it's environmental protection, comm unit, and a vessel for armour upgrades. Some of these can be overcome with augmentations and such, but it's not super user friendly and requires digging.

Lastly I just wanted to say don't get your hopes up for evolutionist having built in armour. I really think that would have been mentioned by now in some interview or write up. Maybe eventually, with an alternate feature or the like, but not right out of the gate.

Thanks and I agree (obviously) on all three ideas. That's why I was suggesting a "Twisted Ribbon" style melding or possibly even a biotech augmentation that you have to combine with an armor to meld biologically with it to get both the advantages and disadvantages. Armor is definitely more than just an AC bonus and I apparently didn't make that point clear in my first point as well as I thought I did.

The flavor you are looking seems antithetical to the game's core 'you need to replace your armor every couple of levels' design, so I wouldn't hold my breath while waiting for this option if I were you.

Out of curiosity, how would this be any more antithetical to the game's core than Twisted Ribbon weapons, solarian weapons (melee and ranged), or attack augmentations like boneblades? They all can't be removed and all are either can be upgraded whether by purchase or leveling up. I was simply asking about a similar mechanic for armor where you get the benefits of the armor just like worn armor (not just AC bonuses like the examples given here but also the environmental effects as well as the downsides like penalties to movement and skill checks). You'd still want to upgrade it periodically just like the other equipment that become part of your character whether via class or equipment.

I would agree though that I shouldn't hold my breath given the almost unanimous response of Ni to the idea in the thread though. :)

Thanks for the tips. I think the thread has confirmed that the flavor I'm looking for likely doesn't exist (yet?) in the game but hopefully some day might. Regardless, I appreciate the ideas as a basis for RAW incorporation of some aspects of it.

Evolutionist is coming out in Interstellar Species.

Thanks! Looking forward to seeing that one on my FLGS shelves then.

What you're asking for is very exact -- Starfinder doesn't do exact, and that's by design. By giving you what you want they would consume page real estate that could go to broader options that accomodate more players.

There's organic armor plating. There's a class that revolves around upgrading the same set of armor over and over. And there are armor upgrades that allow you to mount weapons that can't be disarmed.

I cannot think of a single thing your GM would have to houserule/homebrew to get you to where you need to go except "...and by the way if you take off this armor you immediately asphyxiate".

I'd probably categorize most good requests as "exact" since the petitioner demonstrates that they know what they want but I disagree that it would take an unreasonable amount of page real estate. It could be accomplished by a single paragraph using the existing armor manufacturer template for both the fluff and crunch combined.

Regardless, I completely agree that it can be houseruled by a GM as well but so could almost any of the mechanics like feats, upgrades, augmentations, and gear that don't require a full class with options to create... but they still come out despite that. :)

Check out the Evolutionist coming this year.

While you're waiting for that, the following can be, with the Experimental Armor Mechanic, flavored to be what you're looking for:

Heavy Armor:
Formian Plate
Kyokor Plating
Exochitin

Light armor -
Various hide armors (Defrex, Ursikka, etc)

Power armor -
Living Tree
Feral Frame

Thanks. I was aware of most but not all of those. Are any of them literally bonded phsyically/biologically to the user or all just worn/piloted? I was referring more to the former so that they can't be forceably removed any more than a natural weapon could be. Hopefully something like that is in the book the evolutionist is coming out in. Has Paizo announced which book that will be? As I mentioned above, I've been a bit out of the loop and only peripherally following developments since I don't currently have a group (just got the evolutionist playtest materials to look at today prior to posting for example).

I haven't kept up with the latest and greatest in Starfinder after my previous group drifted apart but I was curious if organic bio-armor has made it into the game? One of my original character builds was a character that didn't depend on equipment where possible and the game has made great strides to improve natural weapons, barathu weapons, add classes with innate weapons/attacks (like Solarian), and various body morphs (like the geneturge mystic and upcoming evolutionist)... but I don't think I've seen a way to incorporate living armor INTO the character as opposed to just wearing it.

I've seen obviously bio-organic and class abilities that give you a token +1 or +2 to AC but I'm more referring to the twisted ribbon manufacturer for armor where the armor melds with your form and can't be removed (other than obviously a long process when you level up) but still otherwise provides the abilities and disadvantages it normally would (EAC/KAC bonus, environmental protections, upgrades, etc). Have I missed this option? If not, am I the only one interested in such a variant? So far, I've only been able to use necrografts for environmental functions and basically just skip the other features of armor.

I know it sucks and I am in no way excusing any of the original corporate participants in that kickstarter. Also, Archon has done VERY sketchy stuff in the past to their own crowdfunding customers (look up the AVP kickstarter disaster on independent forums for details since Archon/Prodos literally DMCA'ed/scuttled their own kickstarter page to hide the details) but this isn't one of them. No one here is owed anything from Archon and $13 for 32 minis (or multiples there of) is a good deal. You'll never get your money back just like my Robotech Tactics kickstarter wave 2 money/product is gone forever but you'll be able to sell what you get for more than $0.50 a mini that you're paying now if you want to ulitmately make some money back or have anything to show for it. It's icing on a poop cake but sweet nonetheless.

TL:DR; It sucks no matter what. This will make it suck less for some (but definitely not all) people.

Pretty much within the mechanical restrictions of size and obvious drone status. There is a drone mod in one of the supplements that allows your drone to look organic at least superficially which opens up more options.

https://www.aonsrd.com/DroneMods.aspx?ItemName=Lifelike%20Appearance

Not technically an Archon announcement but rather Starfinder minis and it seemed silly to start another thread for it rather than just posting it here.

Wizkid's next batch of "deep cuts" unpainted Starfinder minis was announced a couple days ago. Looks like a Lashunta two pack and a dragonkin (yes, you read that correctly!).

https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/50023/wizkids-drops-more-pathfinder-sta rfinder-deep-cuts

I wouldn't sweat it for typical combat encounters unless the players are using full auto or weapons that have five or less shots before needing reloads. It's a nice change of pace to do an extended low resource combat every once in a while but I would warn them at the beginning to meticulously track ammo if that's not what normally happens. Of course, you have to cherry pick the enemy type so that they don't drop extra clips themselves of course because that would render the whole thing moot once the first person gets into close combat.

Agree with the above. Resistances in Starfinder are very fragmented so you just switch to another type of damage. As stated above, if you've got adamantine for DR then use an energy based weapon instead. It's really difficult to be resistant both as a player or monster in Starfinder to most things.

Eox! I want to "live" forever. :) At least the parts of me that don't rot and fall off of course.

FWIW, some more figs got released on Archon/Prodos' webstore. They don't have a blog news entry but the last Starfinder one from a year ago was wave three and I know there was another way inbetween (the one with Epic Obozaya) so possibly wave 5?

https://archon-studio.com/shop/23-starfinder

Two more vesk (yay!) and a human.

Thanks for the advice above. I don't think (at least single classed) that the class is a good fit for my playstyle then but I appreciate the ideas. I may have to rethink it from the ground up instead as I'm looking for a bit of variety.

It may sound silly but I tend to make characters up based on cool art and/or figures I find (or buy in the latter case) and I have one that seems custom made for a Vanguard (heavy armor and big shield). What roles can a vanguard fill in a party besides the obvious tank? I tend to play combat casters because I enjoy for the variety of having both straightforward attacks to choose from as well as off the wall spells but I'm not sure I'll get that with the vanguard. I didn't play a solarian despite liking the look of them for the same reason as I didn't feel there was enough variety. Coming off of playing a barbarian in D&D, I'd prefer to avoid another rinse/lather/repeat playstyle character.

Sincerely,

Vinnie the "Tank but not just a Tank" Vanguard

Hey folks, I saw the wiki was updated with Tech Revolution and was wondering if the intent of entropic shot was to still allow entropic strike in melee as a limited option.

https://www.aonsrd.com/AltClassFeatures.aspx?ID=37

https://www.aonsrd.com/Classes.aspx?ItemName=Vanguard

The last sentence in the rule says it modifies instead of replaces strike and the bulk of the rules use permissive optional words like "can" instead of "must" in the first paragraph for new uses while the second paragraph lists specific abilities that are lost/replaced. The closest analog to this would be the solarian manifestation but thatbone specifically says you pick one and not the others (so flare instead of weapon or armor).

I'm not complaining but it didn't stop them way back in a Society adventure I think when they came out with a different gobbo powered armor. Regardless, I'm glad it's here and available for low level powered armor character builds.

I wouldn't personally adopt the rule across all powered armor sets but rather only low level ones under the level gate of the feat (of which there are only a few). I wouldn't be opposed to a rule for others but I don't necessarily think it is needed.

A goblin NPC wearing a salvage chassis is illustrated in the adventure - the gear itself is not.

Thanks! Is it the goblin from the Roll20 marketplace entry for Junker's under their sample images? Third from the left/start.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.d20.io/marketplace/1939458/08GG1iyB2Dq8AQdVb MynAQ/med.jpg

https://marketplace.roll20.net/browse/bundle/12045/starfinder-adventure-jun kers-delight

That's smaller than I was expecting but in a good way since I hoped to use it for a medium sized creature as a counts as.

edit: it looks like the forum software doesn't allow links so it inserted a space in the word junk that you'd have to remove to get the working link.

I think its specific to that set of armour rather then Power armour in general. No mention that I have seen in Tech Revolution and from the wording on the site, it sounds like it is a special property of that armour

Thanks for the reply. I was hoping it was maybe a prelude to a general change but I'll take a low level starting gear capable power armor any way I can!

Do they have a pic of it? Is it against the rules of this forum to post pics from books? I'm curious if it's a sort of 40k ork contraption or something completely different.

Is this a specific change for this one armor in Junker's Delight or is this more of a general rules change in the recent Tech Revolution book?

https://www.aonsrd.com/PoweredArmor.aspx?ItemName=Salvage%20Chassis

" A character who is proficient in heavy armor is considered proficient with a salvage chassis. A character with proficiency in powered armor from some other source—such as a feat or class feature—gains an additional benefit while wearing a salvage chassis;"

My group hasn't played in over a year at this point so I haven't really been keeping up with the more recent rule books and adventures. I went to the wiki to see what was new and found that blurb under the new level 2 powered armor. I personally like the idea of powered armor being possible at the lowest levels (instead of the current 5th level entry gate for PCs) with an added benefit/cherry on the top for those officially trained in it. I'm a bit biased though because I'm a fan of power armor characters in scifi RPGs (and even scifa like this on!) but it never was a possible starting loadout except with a GM handwave. I'd even be fine with a further nerfed version if folks are worried about game balance (like a bonus to strength up to the max listed instead of autogranting the max) for these hybrid heavy/powered armors.

Is there a pic in the book to show what this looks like officially? I've got some ideas floating around from other popular scifi properties like mega-armored 40k orks but was curious to see what other possible counts as might work.

It is likely more passive than you would like but there's also no real way for us to make them talk to us and there's no real way for us to apply pressure on them to produce things at a faster pace. They took over the job of fulfilling this and were given a big empty hole to fill so they are working on filling it as best they can. They still need to keep their core business moving forward and are working on this as they have capacity.

The figures they have produced have been awesome and the future sculpts we've seen look equally great. We just need them to be in a place to release the next wave and I don't have any timeline on that.

Thanks for the honest and quick response even if it's not the answer I was hoping for.

Another quiet week so no update.

I appreciate the updates but I do have a question. Are you actively reaching out to Prodos/Archon each week or passively checking whether they've updated you of their own accord?

A bunch of fans, on Paizo's own Message Boards, speculating about why Starfinder (the game they are talking about) isn't talked about by more people.

The irony.

I'm going to agree with that first part but unfortunately likely for the opposite reason you said it. The opinions that might be most valuable to the company are those of the players who either stopped or never started playing and you're less likely to find them posting in a timely fashion here unless they're also engaged with PF. I only come here every once in a while to see if there is an update on the miniatures debacle and haven't bothered to log in for a while since I don't need to do that just to check a single thread for "no news" weekly updates.

What turned me off of Starfinder? There were alot of reasons honestly and they're likely to be hotly debated as the complete opposite preference is perfectly valid as well. I was drawn in at first by my positive (albeit short) experiences with PF1 during the Dark Times (D&D 4e) and the consistently good art. As a long time player of 3.x, I was obviously familiar with the basis for the heavily modified rules but skeptical that they'd work well in a scifi setting. To Paizo's credit, they never pretended that this was scifi but rather science fantasy so they in no way mislead me; I simply hoped that the mashup would have turned out better in practice than I felt it did. Additionally, I wasn't a fan of this being a future version of the Pathfinder setting though I fully understand why they'd want to mesh the two together. In my case, I simply would have preferred a dedicated scifi game where firing a futuristic space laser was mechanically different than letting loose an arrow from a bow and were the rich background of fantasy dwarves, elves, and orcs had nothing to do with adventures in space.

The game seemed to dip its toes into each familiar niche of the genre but never seemed to fully jump in. There was hacking... but it was basic. There was space combat... but it felt like a completely different game and (for my mystic character) usually amounted to just an assist role for someone else's shot as I either didn't meet any of the criteria to be good for a specific role or my stats weren't good for just manning a secondary gun. I liked the new races and classes but the traditional fantasy races felt crammed in for me and brought down that aspect of the game. I could see the care and effort put into this (unlike say Palladium's Rifts which felt like it was cobbled together on sequential all nighters across multiple decades the nights before each book was due at the printers) but it just didn't gel for me. It didn't feel like it did particularly any of the scifi elements well because it was trying too hard to do everything at once; it was truly the jack of all trades, master of none.

And then there is the ongoing mess of the Ninja Division miniatures campaign. Paizo isn't directly responsible for that but indirectly I don't feel they both thought it through initially (the warning signs were absolutely there for ND to screw it up royally) and didn't handle the aftermath well either whether due to contractual non-disparagement reasons or simply "not my problem" thinking. Well, it was and continues to be their problem.

That's my two cents. As I said before, I fully expect others to disagree as I'm sure that some of my personal bugbears with the game/system are reasons others actually were attracted to it... but I figured I'd mention them in case it helps to get another perspective. I can't comment as to whether the game is actually less popular as frankly I've stopped following it online (except for a foray to the forums for a few seconds every week or two) or purchasing the products. I can say though that when I was excited about playing the game (and did play for about a year) despite my misgivings that outside of this forum my attempts to generate interest with the general gaming public didn't garner much response. YMMV.

Ghost725, I don't know you but I've repeatedly posted in support of you FWIW... but he publicly apologized and corrected the mistake. Yes, you can't take the pee out of the proverbial pool but better late then never. I'm not saying that you have to accept the apology as that's entirely your personal choice but I'm not sure what you expect to achieve with the confrontational parts of the post above other than vent and apparently inevitably get reported.

Yoshua wrote:

Seriously, every community member should be inflamed that a Paizo employee with access to our personal and financial information has done this and doubled down.

After the implied death threats made against Paizo employees in one of the very first threads on this? I'm very disinclined to care sadly.

So the justification is that two wrongs make a right? How very 2020 of you.

Unless it was the same poster who the president addressed (and you have verifiable proof of it), it has no bearing on what happened most recently in this thread. Additionally, call me old fashioned but I hold highly paid company executives to a higher standard than random internet pundits of indeterminate age. YMMV.

This thread has certainly taken a turn for the worse. If a company executive think that posts are so egregious then warn/ban the poster as per your own existing rules instead of resorting to quasi-doxxing and veiled threats. Just keep in mind that you're likely treating your own customers who cummulatively lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in a harsher fashion than you are the company that took the money.

I appreciate the update even if there is no news. You *WILL* get some flak from some (and honestly for good cummulative reason) for coming in here without tangible progress but I think it is the right thing to do both for the brand and the company. Pazio screwed up in choosing ND and the company and especially your customers paid dearly for that choice (customers in actual lost money and Paizo with potential earnings lost). Posting here on a regular basis is the right thing to do and the first step in earning back some (definitely not all but simply some) of the trust that disappeared along with all the funds put into ND's account.

In all reality, the true colors were WELL known before the Starfinder KS campaign launched. Within minutes of launch, they were being swarmed with users from previous campaigns warning others about ND/SPM's history of lies/delays/failures.

Agreed and I referenced that in the sentence just before your quote started. There is a difference between "showing" and "knowing" though.

There is a reply to Lindon's post. Hopefully, it is clear.

Thanks and I appreciate it.

Sorry to keep multiposting but it wouldn't let me edit the prior post as some time limit was reached. It might be a good idea for one of the backers to correct Lindon over in the kickstarter comments as he or she is claiming that "Apparently Archon Studios bought the Starfinder miniatures licence from ND for $150k" when that's clearly not what they posted. There is enough misinformation and unrealistic expectations (exacerbated by a lack of timely communication from both Archon and Paizo) floating around and that post only makes it worse.

Let me tell ya, the people burned by Prodos, and then Archon, for the Aliens vs Predator debacle still show up everytime Prodos/Archon start up a new venture to warn people that they should be aware of the companies history.

This is going to stick with Paizo. It will be talked about in the community every time Paizo promotes new lines that require crowd funding.

And, FWIW in reference to your earlier post response, I think both those are reasonable responses by customers. I got screwed over in ND's Robotech project; in that case, I personally consider the simple majority of blame to be on Palladium but given ND's ongoing history of failures that they also played a significant part. I pinky swore that I'd post an accurate and honest warning to potential customers once for each dollar of product promised that I didn't receive when I see their names mentioned in regard to other projects. I'm still probably over 100 posts away from my stated goal by my estimate but at least in my case I got half my rewards (albeit in a finicky, unnecessarily complicated, and inferior way). Regardless, ND's history should have been a red flag for Paizo to put additional safeguards but they didn't. I fortunately found out about the Starfinder minis after the initial funding ended but I was seriously considering becoming a late pledge after the fact; ultimately, it was the involvement of ND (who wasn't yet showing their true colors on Starfinder) and my experience with Robotech that convinced me to instead just wait for the project to potentially hit the shelves or to buy out a pledge on the secondary market once it delivered. I'm glad that I was able to avoid this minefield unlike my first experience with crowdfunding.

Hi Archon, here, I wanted to give you an update about Starfinder releases.

But before, as I see a lot of misunderstanding of the situation I wanted to clear it up.

Firstly Archon is not legally obligated to fulfill your orders placed with Ninja Division Kickstarter, thus, if you looking for a refund please contact Ninja Division.

We have also been a victim of bad business practices by ND, with a net loss of 150k USD.

We approached Paizo for the license with hopes that we will recoup some of the losses generated by ND with the Starfinder retail release.

Later, we proposed to manufacture more models, out of our cost for backers.

No one, ND or Paizo paid for this to Archon. So any profit/sale we made on the Starfinder via retail channels is allocated to making mode models for ND backers.

Sound crazy? I know.

@Yoshua, thanks for your concerns, Archon's team is doing the best to help ND backers, please understand we, as a company and backers are on the same boat.

COVID and shipping.

The master plan included several factors, one of them being able to use "cheap" postal service out of Poland. Unfortunately, due to COVID, this service is currently not available.
We have other options. However, the cost is x3 higher, plus FedEx still has not lifted shipping limits for parcels shipped from Europe to USA.

Due to these reasons, we have closed our online store or limited shipping only to the EU.

We have also limited our online store releases.

Tooling.

We have made two tools with nine models to be released (2 waves in one go). And as soon as Global Express (the "cheap" shipping option) is available, we will release them.

There is a question about how long it takes to turn STL model to plastic injection:

1. Engineering(preparing a single model for plastic) takes about 24 working hours/ per model.
2. CAD (tooling) that about 40 working hours.
3. Tooling, this is about 2 weeks to cut on CNC machine.
4. The injection takes about 1 week to set up everything and about...

Quoted for posterity just in case Starfinder goblins get to it. I hope this clears up some misconceptions about what is "owed" to backers by Archon. Archon's actions were, for years, reprehensible towards their customers under their Prodos banner (that they largely subsequently ran away from both financially for future projects and physically back out of the UK) but they're frankly the best and more importanly ONLY hope for Starfinder kickstarter backers. They're not going to run their own company into the ground to fulfill someone else's promises though when that's not what they're required to do. I do think that they've proven they're willing to help backers at minimal cost to themselves (i.e. a few pennies material cost for a plastic sprue punched out during an existing production run). Ninja Division has a history of long and ongoing delayed or failed projects and it's unrealistic to think that they'll have the money set aside to ship out to backers waves 1-6 if and when Archon ships it to them. Again, your only realistic hope to receive ANYTHING for your $200 average pledge is to kick in another $20 in shipping and one additional purchase direct from Archon... and even now that option is delayed/limited as per Archon's post above referencing the lack of affordable shipping costs.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... the blame for THIS project is squarely on the doorstep of ND for failing to produce the project as promised and, to a lesser extent, for Paizo for knowing that ND had a public history of doing that at the time of the crowdfunding and not taking the proper precautions (like keeping the funds in escrow and dispersing it as needed for milestones met) to protect their own customers and their own IP. Could that have meant that ND didn't agree and they'd have to settle for another company offering a much smaller project scope? Sure... but backers wouldn't have been left with a multihundred dollar hole in their wallets.

I strongly suspect there are multiple issues at play but that's just conjecture on my part. I frequent several minis specific forums and European boutique minis companies have had ALOT of problems with delayed shipments with non-essential international shipping closing down for weeks to months at a time and then having to deal with backlog. People are just now reporting getting shipments confirmed by postal services as received back in march and arriving in mid to late August.

Then there is the issue of whether or not Archon actually sent out waves to those who didn't pay to order other items from their catalog. The waves themselves are running significantly behind with them only being on wave 3 when they should be IIRC at over 6 now (wasn't it initially monthly?). Backers are unfortunately at their discretion and they're not going to run their company into the ground for someone else's mistakes. Heck, they didn't want to make good on their own mistakes with the AVP kickstarter that didn't deliver full pledges to roughly half the backers despite the products being on the market for years until they were on the cusp of ending their license and would have been forced to destroy the remaining product.

If there is someone to blame, it's definitely ND and to a lesser extent Paizo for not having enough failsafes/oversight in their contract to prevent the debacle in the first place. I fully admit that they may not have been in a position to demand them but that doesn't help backers either. At this point, unless you feel like ordering something else from Archon, you should consider the amount pledged as a loss and anything you might possibly get in the future as a bonus. Archon is IMO disincentivized from releasing too much now that there is a competing minis line in roughly the same scale for the same game from a bigger company. I know I'll probably get anger directed at me from backers but you deserve to hear what is likely the truth even if it hurts. I've been there as a backer of a massively blundered minis project and I know how it sucky it feels.

I think the end of this project will likely be due to the competing Wizkids prepainted minis hitting the market after Archon/Prodos lost 6+ months of potential sales due to Covid. I think we'll still see one more wave but I'll be shocked if anything is announced after a potential wave 4 that is likely already in development. YMMV. And, yes, it sucks for backers and Ninja Division really screwed over their customers/the Starfinder fanbase.

It is a bit odd when compared to the layout of the other movement types.

Swimming wrote:

You can move your full swim speed while swimming, and you can use the run action while swimming, provided that you swim in a straight line.

Climbing wrote:

You can move your full climb speed when you use the move action while climbing, but you cannot run.

The section on Swimming tells us we can run, the section on Climbing tells us we cannot, and the section on Flying is silent.

I'm glad Pathfinder 2 is a bit more consistent with its wording. Maybe Starfinder 2 will be as well.

LOL, that's some serious Goldilocks and the Three Bears game design there. :) Thanks for letting me know about the others as I had focused on fly specifically in my own search before posting.