Rjesterie's page

The crux of disappointment many players have with this errata is how it changes the many ways the feat can be used.

* many other 3 feat chains with certain builds can give a better flat AC bonus then -1 to hit, +7 versus one announced attack (-2, +3 otherwise). we may see a resurgence of combat expertise centered builds. (or a re-focus on snake style)

* Most characters interested in crane style had no interest in using total defense as it essentially prevents them from contributing to combat unless attacked and leaves them unable to counter or defend from combat maneuvers.

* if the "deflect" was the issue, why leave deflect arrow?

I do agree "craft-theory" has many flaws, such as assuming circumstances or other party members - and over optimization can bite you in the @#$ when you cant be friendly, cant climb, cant swim, or cant see anything but can kill things real good.

Also this isn't about "one feat" this was a 2-5 feat chain giving abilities people built concepts around that now will not work for the majority of those concepts. - and it affected more then monks.

the first 2 feats I can see some possible builds, but as it stands unless someone can clarify how a non threatening character can make a AoO Combat Expertise will replace Crane riposte every-time.

This is a great example of why I will never post a full build I play or plan to play in PFS. Easiest way for it to be nerfed to oblivion before I'm lvl 5

-PS. I do appreciate Jason Bulmahn's and Chris Lambertz's participation in this forum as that does alleviate some concerns about the developers "not giving a damn" when players gripe about changes affecting the creations they have spent both time and money on.
Alas, its obvious to me at this point some time will need to pass before any changes to the errata are considered and unless someone brings up a really good point I don't have anything more to say.

hope this looks better in a few days.

OK a lot of what I feel has been said, so I'll just cover what I think has been missed (or not clarified enough):

* I still feel linking Crane Wing to Total Defense is a joke.

Total defense mean no attacks, you no longer threaten (or enable flanking) and cannot use the expertise feat.
unless there is a ruling on attacks of opportunity I'm not aware of, you cannot take them when you do not threaten.

Crane Riposte: "Whenever you use Crane Wing to deflect an opponent’s attack, you can make an attack of opportunity against that opponent after the attack is deflected."

this effect will never trigger even if if is reworded to give a exception on the attack of opportunity.

When is it a good idea for a DPS / Tank / CM Spec to "curl up in a ball" with total defense and not contribute to a group? As I do not know of a way to force a creature to attack you while in total defense I believe A 5x6 stone statue is a better party member then a "crane wing" total defense spec as at least it can't be tripped or re-positioned! (and both of them you can simply walk by)

* Errata re-opened a potential exploit

"An attack so deflected deals no damage and has no other
effect (instead treat it as a miss)"

There are a few class features / feats that trigger on a miss, Snapping Turtle Style for example. (unless it is re-worded or re-clarified again to be the attack deals no damage and inflicts no effects)

If PFS GMs were annoyed at crane wing now, imagine a MOMs Monk 2/ Unarmed Fighter 8 practicing Crane Style, Crane Wing, Snapping Turtle style, Snapping Turtle Clutch, Improved Grapple, Greater Grapple,Rapid Grappler, Body shield and a few more (read the feats to understand, yes there is a bottleneck in swift/immediate actions and yes crane could be replaced with snake style but crane wing may work out more often with the +4 dodge without an action on one attack)

(A burly man shatters a pot of oil overhead, then rubs his exposed hairy chest with a smile. " Welcome to the ring, Let me sing the song of my people.")

* As a home game DM and PFS player, I'm really frustrated at the remake of this feat chain. Having to announce the +4 dodge bonus on every use will bring us back to how the old dodge feat wasted so much time, and will cause arguments with DMs that want to roll multiple attacks at the same time with different "weapons".

If I had a character in PFS that used crane style I would probably be remaking it now.

Please Errata this Errata post haste!

Jack-of-Blades wrote:

can you use your Wizard's Arcane School abilities to modify the Magus' spells?

If they modify spellcasting, yes. If they specifically modify wizard spells or do something else, then no. See the General rule below.

FAQ wrote:

Sorcerer: Do the bonuses granted from Bloodline Arcana apply to all of the spells cast by the sorcerer, or just those cast from the sorcerer's spell list? (page 72 of the Core Rulebook)

The Bloodline Arcana powers apply to all of the spells cast by characters of that bloodline, not just those cast using the sorcerer's spell slots.

General rule: If a class ability modifies your spellcasting, it applies to your spells from all classes, not just spells from the class that grants the ability. (The exception is if the class ability specifically says it only applies to spells from that class.)

—Jason Bulmahn, 10/21/10

'

thanks Grick! you just posted the reference I need. in the FAQ this is a instance where "Spell list" and "spell slot" are interchanged.

I tend to make sure any build I make works RAW, as RAI seems to turn into "rules as I want to interpret them" -which is fine for homegames but never for PFS. at least IMO.

As for the original post's question, I'm... A little confused. Are you asking if a multi-class Magus/Druid can Spell Combat and/or Spellstrike a spell using a Druid spell slot just because it's also on the Magus list?

yes.

another (slightly more complicated) example: magus 2/ sorc 2: casting shocking grasp.

if its from a Sorc, then this spell does not ignore arcane spell failure.
(armor prof. says "A multiclass magus still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes")

but shocking grasp is both a arcane spell and on both class lists.
(and SpellCombat / Spellstrike ask about that specifically)

If that's the question, the answer is no. You get spell slots from both classes and can only use the spell slots granted by Magus to use Spell Combat/Spellstrike with until you reach 6th level in Magus and take the Broad Study Arcana.

The whole "Magus Spells" distinction is referring to the spell slots granted by the Magus class, not just spells that also happen to be available to Magi.

this is the point I'm needing a reference or example on...

I've searched the core book and ultimate magic for a reference, but maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

I would totally agree if it said "Magus Spell" but it says "Magus spell list" .. I just need something to reference in the future if thats not the case

So here's another question about multi-class Magi.

If you take several levels in Magus, then take a level in Wizard, can you use your Wizard's Arcane School abilities to modify the Magus' spells?

I mean, for example, you have access to Fireball on your Magus spells due to your level in the class. Can you then use your Wizard's Admixture ability on your Magus' fireball to make it an acidball?

** spoiler omitted **

I only ask because it doesn't specify whether or not it's referring to your Wizard's spells or just any spells with those elemental descriptors.

this is actually in line with my question, and the answer for "can you use your Wizard's Arcane School abilities to modify the Magus' spells" is yes from what i have seen and practiced

- the trigger is "When you cast an evocation spell that does acid, cold, electricity, or fire damage" so you could also use this on the druid spell "flame blade" to make a "acid blade" (its normally a evocation spell that does fire damage)

there is no mention in "Admixture" the spell has to be granted from wizard class levels.

I'm against multiclassing , especially w/spellcasters, but as a general rule you cannot use a slot from by one class to use a spell granted by the other class, if this is what you are asking.

for this example he would be using his druid spell-casting ability to cast "Hydraulic Push"

- the catch is in the spell description:
Hydraulic Push
School evocation [water]; Level druid 1, magus 1, sorcerer/wizard 1; Bloodline aquatic 1

so this spell is on Magus,Druid,Sorcerer, and wizard spell lists.

I think "spells from the magus spell list" already states that the magus class features can only be used in tandem with spells from the magus class list

yup. we agree on this. but it doesn't say only spells granted by this class. -only the class spell list (very different)

this is important for other abilities - for example A druids animal companion's "share spells" ability only allow spells coming from a class that granted the animal companion - so a cleric 4 (animal domain)/ druid 4 (Animal companion) can share any spell they can cast targeting "touch" or "you" , while a druid 4 (Animal companion)/ wizard 2 (farmilair) can only share druid spells with the companion, and wizard spells with the farmiliar. -both targeting "touch" or "you".

(don't forget a magus needs to take the appropriate arcana to use arcane spells from the wizard's list).

I believe you are referring to the "Broad Study" arcana?

yes that would allow this no matter what, but I took it to mean you could Spell combat and Spell strike with spells that are not on the magus spell list at all (Bungle for example).

For Weapon and Armor Proficiency, the magus is listed as "He can cast magus spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance."

and

"A multiclass magus still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes."

note "magus spells" and "arcane spells received from other classes"

- so that pretty much says this ability is only for the spells you get from magus class levels (Simular to share spells with a farmilair / A. companion)

however both "spell combat" and "Spellstrike" reference "spell from the magus spell list" as the requirement for the spell... (but not "arcane spells received from magus")

- well most spells are on more then one class list (and some are different levels on those lists)

does this mean a Magus 2 / Druid 2 could use a druid spell slot to "spell combat" cast "Hydraulic Push" (both druid and magus 1) then "spell strike" it?

if not, do you know where it says that? (so I can mention it to my gaming group).

thanks in advance.

Dragon Style would let you get through DR/Slashing, wouldn't it?

Boar style could.

Dragon style is more for treating unarmed strike like 2Hnd attacks (1.5 Str) and charging options..

true... though a +5 AoMF is 125,000 GP.... so total of 148,500?

Ouch!

at 10th lvl, my highest pathfinder society character has earned a total of 71,690 GP over 26 adventures.... (with 25k "expected" from the last 5 adventures before retirement)

(edit)
the previous advice is built on a gold limit somewhere in line with society.

(-edit-, said something snarky before my morning coffee that I shouldn't have)

I believe anything above a +2 AoMF is ridiculously overpriced... and if your monk has a high attack stat (STR based melee monks work well) hitting should not be a major issue....

if hitting is a common problem a +6 Str belt is more reasonable (at 36k).... or getting someone to enlarge you...

or better yet:
get poly-morphed: as a animal/plant/elemental/whatever of med. size or larger you get "size" or untyped bonuses to you stats, and can still make monk unarmed strikes in that form......

Damage reduction annoying you? don't care about ki and hate being lawfull? go Martial artist and get Exploit Weakness.

But I digress...
the subject is items to improve unarmed damage, since Brass Knuckles were changed AoMF is the only way to enchant unarmed strikes like weapons ..... unless you use the other Items mentioned.

Hope that helps!

From what I've seen with the brass knuckles since the UEG printed is you treat them like any other weapon - they do nothing special with monks, bards, or sorcerers for that matter.,,,

so unarmed attacks are still the hardest to enchant / enhance in the game,,,

I know of these options:

A) Amulet of mighty fists (neck slot)
+ enhances all natural weapons and unarmed strke
+ Any weapon enchantment
+ the first +1 can be traded for a ability.
- gets expensive FAST

B) FORGE FIST AMULET (Neck, 13,000, UEG)
+ "hands" become adamantine and flaming (Unarmed strikes and natural attacks)
+ command to activate, swift to end
- "hands" cannot wield or grasp objects while activated

C)FROST FIST AMULET (Neck, 10,000, UEG)
+ "hands" become cold iron and frost
+ command to activate, swift to end
- "hands" cannot wield or grasp objects while activated

D)GOLEMBANE SCARAB (Neck, 2,500)
+ use standard action to detect golems within 60 ft
+ attack with weapons, unarmed attacks, or natural weapons as if those golems had no damage reduction.

> nice item to have when storming a wizards tower....

E) amulet from "Quest of perfection" (Neck, price?)
+ add 3 levels to monk for unarmed damage / bonus movement
- (Edit) dot NOT stack with monk robe

F) Monk robe (Body, 13,000)
+ add 5 levels to monk for unarmed damage, AC bonus, and an extra stunning fist.

G)DELIQUESCENT GLOVES (Hand, 8,000)
+ reshape to fit any hand, claw, tentacle,or alien limb.
+ if using a limb wearing the glove, the unarmed strike, natural attack ot melee weapon have the corrosive quality
+ limbs wearing the glove are protected from oozes "acid" ability
+ natural or unarmed strikes from these gloves never cause a ooze to split.

so optimal is:

+5 monk level unarmed damage
+1d6 Acid Damage
+1d6 Fire Damage
"Hands" count as adamantine.

golembane on standby.

hope you have 36,500 saved up.

if you are looking for feats, look up "Dragon Style"
if you can figure out a way to enlarge yourself, there is more unarmed damage.

Thanks for your answer Will Johnson, you seem to get what I'm asking.

the issue seems to be poorly worded text in the item description.

it could have been written:
"The coat only absorbs potions with a duration of instantaneous or rounds per level in the spells base description"

- and that would have saved me a few arguments.....

I dont think you understand my question...

its like going to the store and saying "I need to walk out of this store with 32 oz of soda." and the store clerk saying "I'm sorry, we only sell 8 oz cans, try going to the other store down the street"

32 oz of soda = 4 * 8oz cans...... wtf.
^Edit 8 * 4 = 32 oops bad math

the wording on the coat only prevents "permanent" durations.

are you saying if a 12 level cleric brewed a potion of prayer (thus creating a 12 level caster potion of prayer ) that it would not work with this coat?

that's like saying "you can eat 6 seconds for free for every birthday you have had" then charging me for eating over a minute.

do you see the issue?

this should work with any spell that is
A> potion compatable
B> has a duration. (or is instantaneous)

what next, Am I to be told I cant benefit from mage armor in combat because its printed duration is not in rounds?

hmm, this is not meant to be a troll response... but im Really confused on some of the rulings on this item.

page 179 PHB "The Combat Round
Each round represents 6 seconds in the game world; there
are 10 rounds in a minute of combat."

the spell "shield" has a duration of 1 min/lvl
Ergo:
the spell "shield" has a duration of 10 rnd/lvl

the spell "Mage Armor" has a duration of 1 hour/lvl
Ergo
the spell "Mage Armor" has a duration of 60 rnd/lvl
.......
(I know this, as I constantly use a wand of mage armor and have to keep track of durations frequently in adventures.)

the item description does NOT mention an upper limit of rounds that the potion can contain. that would read something like:
"up to a maximum of 9 rounds"

the previous posts seem to use the logic: the instant you have a one min duration or more, this jacket will not accept the potion.

for example:

a 10th level cleric with brew potion cannot put his full caster level into a potion of prayer, as now the duration is 1 min. (or 10 rounds)

this does not make any sense to me. did I get a "pre-release" version of the book that is missing some text?

I'm just checking if this is correct, as I've found nothing in the faq about it.

assume a 4th level cleric (no other classes) with animal domain:

Picks up this feat:

would his animal companion jump to his character level? or would this feat have no effect?

2.5 questions on dervish dance:

1) can a non qadira faction character take this feat (did not list faction affiliation as a req.)

2) the feat says you cannot have a weapon or shield in the other hand, but can you have a object in your hand and still have the feat apply (wands, potion, ect.)

if so

2.5) since you cannot have use a two handed weapon one handed, if you had a longbow in one hand, could you still apply the feat?

just want to make shure this is legal before I build the caracter.

thanks for the info :)

I would like to give some kind of benifit, so usse make that suggestions to my players.

running silent tide with 2 taldorian music loving "paladins" of shelyn

a few months ago I tried to run "decline of glory" , because of time constraints (and other factors) we only did 1/4 of the mod. my players lost thier caracters (first time we tried pathfinder/ pathfinder society)
the players barley recall it was in a "swamp".. and it was not reported (I didnt know how to setup the game at the time)

would it be ok to have them redo the mod with new caracters?
(now that most have read up on the factions and the world)

or better yet, since Im the only one who knows this mod (im DM) hold it for a few adventures and re-introduce pathfinder with a different mod (perhaps one more forgiving on absolutely new players/gm)

moreso any suggestions on a great mods as a starter?

A great place to solicit players is to advertise here on the boards and on the EN World boards as well. If you get the word out you may find other people in your area who just don't know where to look.

MountainCon that's the one in Salt Lake City correct. I had a chance to go two years ago and play some LG. I live in NY but have family out there.

If Don Brown still around or is he playing LFR?

noted, ill prob be doing that (right now Im getting the old group to test this out)

mountaincon is in SLC, not shure if its running this year though..
and from what I know, don is still playing LFR - dont know him personally though..

Sorry about the double post,

Im trying to orginize a gmae but cant find the minnimum amount of players needed (the reporting part seems to say i can have more the 6? thats kewl)
can a game be run with 2 players and a gm?

sorry about being confusing, I was really asking about interactives at cons.

I assisted organizing and running mountaincon's LFR offering (it was really our old LG gaming group supporting the local con)
while we were able to offer the special 1-2? mo. before general release we didnt have anything to pull players there (although mountaincon itself gave out some prizes for attendance) - interactives (a big reason to vist a con) will not be supported for some time, if ever....

playing with new people at a convention setting is great!

Playing at a table where people can move onto other tables to help (or evade something nasty at thier table) is increadible!

being able to work with other tables for a common objective and make lasting choices for yourself and the region.... master card comercial :)

(I got the killing blow on the troll general "brushnack?" gaining the "trollslayer" title.. worth traveling out of state twice.)

im ok if some of this is not supported, (im already sold on playing) I just want more ammo to get my group onboard :)

Thank you everyone for the great answers!

finishing my second read through, then buy a mod to run sometime next week :)

one more question:

I know gencon will recieve mod support, but will other conventions?

(living greyhawk did real life regions based on geography, so traveling to out of state cons gave great flavor, -inter-actives or "specials" were another reason to attend a con. - games that were either con-exclusive OR released early only at the con.)
(im really asking for my gaming group.. if LG was still around we would prob. attending more conventions as this was tons of fun)

hmm, ive read the "pathfinder guide to orginized play" but have a few questions I'd like to verify:

A) to run a game, someone at the table has to buy the module right?
(five bucks is pretty cheap, so no real complaints)

B) if you need to purchase the mods, do you need to purchase a new one (for reporting) each time you run the mod (like at different locations at different times)

C) does being a DM to a module prevent being a player when someone else runs the mod (like living greyhawk did)

D) can a DM alter the module for flavor / challenge purpose (like DM empowerment in wizards living forgotten realms)

E) can a caracter go through a module multiple times? can a player with a different caracter?

F) when you complete a mod, the items found can be purchased at full price (with your split and current savings) - can this go over the "gp limit?" your "faction support" allows? (guides not in front of me, so I dont remember the terms)

I just got the pathfinder book last night (spent the whole night reading it) so im pretty excited about participating in a "living" campaign under these rules (loved living grewhawk the 2 years i played it)