Rightous Man's page

God, I always forget something. Also as pointed out by the posts linked by Dm Blake, it's clear to me that the wealth by level values are meant for buying, not crafting. Again, thank you all and good night!

In my current game, I have literally said "Use the crafting rules however you want. Have fun." I don't even care if they make duplicates of existing items way cheaper than they should be. I'm even applying the Making Crafting Work rules to magic items, meaning that 120,000 gp item won't take half a year to make.

But even then, the race and alignment restrictions only reduce the price, not the cost. (If you reread that section, a skill limit says it reduces cost, while a race restriction says it reduces price.)

Wow, I totally overlooked that. It does only adjust the price, not the cost of creation.

Reading the section itself it says that a judgement call is needed for some items.

Ultimately I've decided to restrict the maximum bonus to 20% and only allow feat, trait, class features and racial features that reduce the cost of items during creation. Further.. given the quite clearly stated fact that the 'guidelines' of wealth by level are just guidelines and are not exactly back up by science I've restricted pre game item creation by only allowing a pc to craft 3 magical items, not including scrolls, wands and potions or other mundane gear.

Edit: Thank all of you for your advice on this matter. Also I've specified to my pc's that making items with reductions such as Alignment or class or skill is just not allowed, outside of standard items that do this already.

This is a effort and hope on my part that the game will not suddenly become flooded with extra specific magical gear that the party never needs to get rid of, and does nothing but sell the normal loot and invest further, over and over into their crafter.

While they can still invest in him, he still gets all discounts from his racial features, traits, feats and class features but not as much as before. At higher levels I'm not sure if he can get up to the total of 20% with those restrictions or not, but as it stands i think he has a 10% discount currently.

And perhaps given his interest in being a cleric based on crafting and godly persuits I May allow him to take Hedge Magician... but if i do that then all the players would be able to pick multible traits from the same trees and as i understand it, traits cant really be cheesed, but they can provide unintended benefits if the normal restriction isn't applied.

Feel free to comment further on my choice, and hate me as you will or agree with me as you will. but it is my choice.

Edit 2: Specifically Ty to @Dm Blake, @Selgard, @Ryric and @Magimaster your posts made the difference in my decisions.

Ah, btw i use the 3 point system for leveling them up. I put it to a vote, with my vote favoring the 3 points. So it was 2 players for and 2 against, with me being the first vote caste.

Incidentally the older edition players voted for EXP while the newer ones preferred the 3 points.

Yeah 5 players with a 20 point buy is rough. I've not yet had to apply a advanced template to anything, but maxing out Hp's is the first thing I'm going to do. If that fails to provide a challenge, or ad least appear to even things out I may consider using the advanced template. But I've only got 4 players.

hm.... looking over chapter 5 now. hmmm how about adding him into the Ravenous crypts?

Edit: My guys are built on a 20 point buy to. And up until now I've not increased the loot or wealth they found. So I've kinda been using their 20 PB as a reason to give less reward. I'm going to change that though. First by adding in gear and wealth at all locations it can be found, and get them up to where they are supposed to be. For instance, I'm going to have 20,000 gp in Alderns townhouse in magnimar, in the form of 2000 Platinum Pieces.

And it doesn't help they miss one item or cache of wealth in the areas it can be found usually. I wont tell them where the treasure is, they still gotta look for it.

From what I understand, if one were to add all the cost deductions together, or rather subtract them you would end up getting them for free

100% cost
-50% (making it yourself)
-30% (specifying alignment/class to use)
-10% (Specifying skill check to use)
-5% (Hedge Magician)
-5% (eldritch smith)
=0%

So congratulations, you no longer have to pay gold for any item!

...ok, so that might be looking at it the wrong way.

Perhaps, if you look at the deductions as being taken away from the new total that it would take to make the item.

For example. Making a decanter of endless water

Original cost: 9000gp
New "Make it yourself" cost. 4500gp
Now, deductions brought about by specific other methods can apply

4500gp
-30 percent if it can only be used by clerics
-10 percent if it requires 5 ranks in survival to use it
-5 percent if it is made of metal or stone
-5 percent as you took Hedge Magician

New total cost: 2250gp!

So essentially, a quarter of the items cost!!

Yeah, i wont be letting him making anything for free. The discount is going to apply to the base cost of 50% of the purchased price. Considering what I'm seeing, and BTW he doesn't have Hedge Magician as his trait choices prohibit selecting traits from the same category, I may force a general limit on his own items that is slight higher from himself, and if he makes items for the party it will be lower. Like maybe a limitation of 35 for himself, and 25 for the party. Of course, that isn't going to stop him from charging his fellow adventurers a.. 'service cost' shall we say?

Edit: That is to say 35% for items that he makes for himself and 25% for items made for the party. I'll wait a day to make my decision. It may be lower or higher but given what has been said here, providing a challenge for the party and having fun is a factor to consider and your right @Jayder22, that is something as the Dm I need to consider foremost before simply rules. Although I may go as low as 30% for himself, and 25% for the group.

Also if he is making items that are insanely good for next to nothing the party will simply be selling all the loot for its normal cost and investing everything into him to further increase the level of magical gear they can get.

Now while downtime is not abundant at all times this limits his ability to craft obviously, but over the course of the AP I'm sure he can find the time to make the majority if not all of his desired items.

From items he posted

1)+2 Sacred helm of me – cost 2750 skill of 11
2)+2 Amulet of natural armor – cost 2200 skill 16
3)+1 deathless full plate with Vital guard, deflecting- cost 2200 skill 11
4)Steel buckler of shield +4 shield bonus – cost 825 gold skill 16
5)Amazing tools of the manufacturer- 3300 skill 11
6)+1 dwarven waraxe of countering - cost 2207 skill 11
7)+2 int belt –cost 1100 skill 11

1. I don't know what this is.
2. Amulet of Natural Armor +2 Base price 8000, 45% discount: 3600
3.+1 deathless full plate with Vital Guard, +2 total bonus is 4000 Vital guard is 500, fullplate is 1500 ; total cost 6000 add discount end cost: 2700
4 I couldn't find this but I assume it is a +1 buckler with a shield spell cast onto it for on use cast shield spell? that would make it +2 4000 before discount end cost: 1800
5. I don't know what this is
6. +1 dwarven waraxe of countering. Countering=+1 bonus so +2 at 4000 end cost: 1800
7. +2 int belt. well a +2 int helm is 4000 after discount: 1800. (I don't know if you as a GM would charge more for the slot being belt or not so that would be up to you)

And as an aside I would probably limit the cheese on this if it were me. for instance:

A dwarf with Hedge Magician + Eldritch Smith making an item that requires 5 ranks in craft and requires him to be chaotic good would give 50% +5%(eldritch smith) +5%(hedge magician) + 10%(skill rank required) +30%(required alignment) on a metal item if someone wanted to try to try to read the rules that way to me I would not allow it.

Thats one of my questions, is there a in general limit to the amount of discount able to applied to item creation, regardless of the source. Like i originally thought it was 30 or 35 percent as in a previous pathfinder game a wizard crafter was able to do so by limiting it to race and alignment, but he had told me there is a cap on the total discount, but i cannot find where it might say this.

Edit: As far as the math in concerned, I am concerned if his math is correct. As magic items can drastically change the game and he already has quite a few. Your cots seem a bit higher than what he has posted, so hopefully he can explain his math on here so someone smarter than me can answer him, lol.

Edit 2: Uh, far as Slot changing goes, I'm going to charge him 500 gp, if the crafting rules do not already cover the cost of changing a items usual slot. And on the issue of how much discount to allow him, it is a concern. Obviously I don't want him crapping out crazy amounts of magic items, but i don't feel i should limit his creativity any further than the rules do. So unless it comes out on this post as he is making things at ridiculously small amounts of gp then I'll allow him to make what he can get away with.

Question, when you have multiple sources of cost reduction or time reduction, do they stack into one total number or do you have to apply them one at a time to the new base cost each time? for instance, rather than going, ok item made at a total of -45%, would it be more correct to apply the percentages one at a time to the new base cost each time?

Not sure if the number would be the same doing it that way, but that was how it was explained to me by a Dm in 3.5, but obviously this is pathfinder not 3.5

The player whose character died recently at foxglove has looked up information about haunts and is of course certain he can meat the basic spell requirements to banish Vorel, whats funny is that I'm still going to make him role skill checks to figure it out in game, no cheating now! lol. He is rolling a dwarven cleric focused on crafting, see other post here also for advice on said crafting. http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pt5x?What-is-the-total-discount-a-crafter-can- get#1

Right now they are about to depart for magnimar (though they will of course be side tracked to ravenmoor for a side quest), or return to the manor to attempt Vorels exorcism. However i had Father Zantus advise them to simply not go back as now it is aware of them as a true danger, and will most likely attack them with everything it has as soon as they return. If they choose to not go back, I'll bring him back into the adventure later. I add libbed the necromancer into the manor as a person who was captured by Aldern to assist in creating more ghouls and more horrible undead that would obey him.

I think I'll have that necromancer be ' possessed ' or something by vorel even if they go back so that no matter what they will be able to look forward to a tough added in battle in the future. Now you say book 5 is the best place? where in that book would be best you think?

not trying to be lazy, just trying to make it actually make some sense.

Edit: The necromancer from the insane asylum. They never found him and had no hints what so ever about what was going on there. I think that encounter assumes the pc's have absolutely no manners when it comes to invading peoples privacy. My guys actually left when they killed the guy turning into a ghoul, because the doctor freaked out. Saying he could have still saved him! And that his condition may or may not have be curable.. I mean hell hes got a wererat two cells over. So while he may be a pioneer in the field of mental sciences, he isn't exactly learned in the field of religion or arcane arts.

I don't even really think the Necromancer and he talk much given their story line. More along the line of a working relationship that the owner of the Asylum regrets and would ultimately prefer to not be involved with anymore. Ad least that is how i saw him based on what i read. Perhaps i misinterpreted him and how he would have acted? Even so the encounter seemed relatively pointless and simply existed to take up more time as his presence has nothing to do with the overall story.

Hmmm... I don't think that Feast of Ravenmoor can be scaled up to present a challenge for an L10 party without making changes so radical that make it a fundamentally different adventure. It's designed to be a low-level investigative adventure from the bottom up. Part of the mystery in the module is that the evil is so low-level that most cultists don't have evil auras.

I'd recommend just making the town creepy, mysterious, and unfriendly to travelers. If you want the PCs to have an adventure there, I think you'll have to design your own.

I think the only way to run it as a side quest in Runelords would be to run it between Burnt Offerings and Skinsaw Murders. The PCs should be the right level then (4th) and you could just run it straight with a 4-PC party. (It's designed for 6 3rd-level PCs).

My guys are lvl 6 and I'm planning on using it to give them some additional xp. I think as far as the Cr of the module is concerned I can accommodate their APL by adding in multiple of the end boss, via multiple cultists dieing with it in them. Or something along those lines.

Edit: My group is 4 pcs, and I'm running it on the way to magnimar as a favor they need to do for a local NPC who knows the Tax collector from magnimar.

I'm running Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition. And one of my characters is rolling a Dwarven Cleric, focused on making items to replace his now dead Ninja.

He has informed me that via his racials, traits, and class features from Forge master? or something, i think its a alternate class for cleric, that he is able to get the cost for crafting item up to a discount of 45% for items that are specific to race, a skill, alignment and made of metal or stone. I've asked him to post his character on the forums and let the horde of dnd readers inform him if he is smart or incorrect.

Not a trust issue, as i know he is working within the rules and has checked the forums thus far for his new guy. But I'm curious mainly what is the total discount you can get when making items?

I'm going to link him this in the hopes he will post it here. Again not a issue of the Dm lording over my player, lol. He is smart to want to make items that cost less. Especially seeing as the AP doesn't provide that much loot overall, and I'm going to have to add in extra as in anyway.

Oh and it doesn't help that in every possible treasure area or loot area they have missed one item, or one cache of treasure hidden, obviously so to not be found. Now that i wont give them, its their own fault for not looking hard enough!

@Starfury I'm running this on the way to magnimar, in Rise of the Runelords. So I'm also looking to scale it up. No luck yet on finding a forum what has already covered this.

lol, woah not a single reply? Here I am trying to run this in Rise of the Runelords as a side quest. Dang it now i have to do my own work.

PC: Shi
Class / Level: 6. ninja / rogue
Place: Fox Glove Manor
Killer: Aldern, full attack while paralyzed.

Well they are level 6 right now, and I don't think they have any spells that can work. But your right it isn't required for them to get rid of the haunts. I'm not sure if they are going to try or not. I'm ready either way though.

I'll present them with the option of finding a Cleric in Magnimar who might do just that.

hm.. but what if they don't go back and get Vorel? Could I.. turn him into some kinda Lich that shows up to fight them? Where in the adventure would that work best?

Edit: Also ty for the advice, and I think maxing some of their Hp's would solve a few things. I'm going to run feast of Ravenmoor and then Dawn of the Scarlet sun as time fillers.

First and for most, this is a DM Section, if you are one of my players. DO NOT READ MY POST. As it obviously is going to contain spoilers. Bad player!

So yeah. 1st some general information about my players.

My players are a tough buncha guys. Even the squishy ones have incredibly high Ac's and ad least 2 of their saves each are average or better.

My players are pretty good at making effective characters. The Ranger has a level of rogue and is the trap finder and with his plus 15 to perception he finds most of them and notices most ambushes not being set up by goblins or something else with racial bonuses to stealth.

The fighter has a NA item, a Deflection ring, is wearing platemail and a ring of force shield. Now I've recently read up on that ring and clarified how it works precisely. So he will no longer be having quite a high Ac while wielding his two handed axe. However even without that shield he still has a very decent FF and Normal Ac. Only his touch is weak. Oh and also he does a very very large amount of dmg i think on a minimum he does something like 13 or 14. On average he does ad least 20 to 30 or more.

The caster is a cleric/wizard going for Mystic T. Hes not really overpowered at all. hes quite versatile and in general is a asset to the group more so for his very high knowledge skills and healing. He mainly pokes from the rear of the group with magic missile's and a few buffs. Sometimes he will attack if he sees a opportunity.

There was also a Ninja but he died fighting Aldern. The ninja was a hard to hit but squishy guy and started the encounter with Aldern alone when he was scouting. Aldern paralyzed him just as the fighter got into the melee. The fighter bravely stood over his body as he lay there on the floor. Which now thinking about it, i should have said he couldn't because you fall as you were standing, like a statue as i understand being paralyzed. But anyway the fighter tried to protect him. But Aldern was able to trip him and disarm him with pure luck of the roll but not before the fighter dealt him 34 more points of dmg putting him at 6 from death.

Then it was Alderns Turn, seeing that he was about to be slain, he went for the only truly available target and attacked the paralyzed Ninja under the fighter. helpless as he was, he was a easy target and Aldern full attacked him with 2d6 sneak attack and 3 attacks. So yeah he died..
but in the end so did Aldern. None of my guys are doing anything wrong by being the best their characters can be, and I don't hate them or anything for having strong characters its just frustrating to get the feeling you are providing little to no challenge because of the partys Dmg output during combat.

Now folks here are my questions.

1st I'm concerned I'm providing near to no challenge to my players. As they are truly afraid of NO scenario; except where I make it clear to them that they should avoid something. Such as a optional and quite deadly encounter with the Sand Point Devil. And even then, i had to warn them by using its hell fire breath on one of them. It almost killed him but the Devil left with some over the top words like " your destiny is not to die by my wrath, mortal " or some such.

The Fighter Smashes and destroys anything, even if it has Damage Reduction. He does so much dmg it simply provides no real true challenge to him, especially when he hit's like a truck and has a High Ac and has a high to hit. I'm going to ask him if hes factored in all his negatives, but I'm fairly certain he has.

The only time i can make him even slow down is when i put physical obstacles in his path or a monster with buffed Ac or other things to just fight him for a round or two before he gets a hit in and kills it.

What is really funny is that I originally made the game harder by adjusting the tactics and positions of certain enemys. That resulted in a party TPK twice, lol. So seeing as i was obviously in error. We did a reset and from then on everything has been fine. They dont complain that things are 'To' Hard, but now I'm complaining because things seem to easy for them!

And my 2nd question is what to do next with Vorel and Fox Glove manor. They free'd Iesha from her attic prison. But because of how dangerous my party is, i had her lead them to Aldern rather than attack him and weaken him before they got there. Because i knew they would dispatch him rather quickly. And they did, in about 4 rounds he was dead. The only reason he even got a kill was because the ninja unfortunately choose to initiate the combat via his scouting when he tried to stealth into Alderns Lair and Aldern spotted him.

Anyway, the party defeated Aldern and I had Iesha crying, I know shes a Revenant but I was going to have it be that shortly after Aldern was slain she would come back to her senses and wipe her tears just long enough to finally destroy Vorel. But just as I was about to say this, the Fighter said

F: So, what is Iesha doing.
Me: She is crying softly over Alderns now unmoving undead corpse.
F: Alright.. I attempt to end her life while she is doing so.
Me: Ah.. uh.. ok yeah go ahead and swing.

Normally i don't simply interrupt box text type situations, but he reacted so quickly to me saying she is crying that I let him do it. I view this as a consequence we all face, our own choices.

So Vorel isn't gone, they set him on fire. Which wont kill him. And now are planning on leaving foxglove for sandpoint to heal up and simply come back and burn the entire house down. I already know that isn't going to do much. As Vorel will just repair slowly anything that is done to the house. Ad least as far as i can tell he does. So I'm rather unsure of what to do here as far as story is concerned. I mean they slew their one way to truly lift the Haunt. So... advice?

yes i had this issue also. My pc's were dying tying to get into thistletop. Not to mention i was tweaking it to make it tougher. I think now with me appropriately leveling them and with the 3 point system they will essentially be on the fast track. 3 points and you level, 1 per session, sometimes more.

I'm having issues figure out how to replace the bonus xp reward system i was using. I had various things like rp bonuses 25 xp times lvl, awarded up to 3 times per character per session. 100 xp times lvl per journal entry written, max of one award per session. Now they want more gold as a reward, lol. They already get plenty from what i can see in the loot listed for most of the adventure.

I've decided to do a reset. I've read some other forums and it seems the best option given that i was tweaking things to make them harder, to hard.

They will be level 4 after clearing thistle top or very close to 5th if not 5th by the time they reach Ravenmoor. Its a mod for 4 3rd level pcs. Seems like they would have the advantage?

I was hoping to throw in Choppers Isle before they left Sandpoint also.

Interesting, i forgot i even made this thread. So let me answer a few things.

@ Andrea1 - Ty for the sarcastic comment that provides no help but rather only bad attitude. In the future please contact my secretary with such comments as I've no interest in reading them. With luck, it s big forum we may never read each others posts again.

@Nobodyshome - Thank you for the link it is helpful for suggestions on what to do with her if she escapes. Personally i was thinking of having her simply return to Magnimar as a additional solo encounter. Perhaps somehow melding her into the Dawn of the Scarlet Sun mod. but i will pour over this page for advice and inspiration.

Secondly, yeah a raid on sandpoint with them would be brutal. Overall I've decided to reset the AP to just before they entered thistletop. As my editing of placing certain mobs dragged the gaming sessions out and also was to difficult, although they did slaughter their way, step by step through thistletop.

@Damocles Guile - Yes actually them beating them would make them see them as less than a threat to be taken seriously. To be honest i had thought about that but ended up going with something else. To be honest I regret not toning down the difficulty so far and going with that idea.

@HangarFlying - Neither do I !

@Shillelagh Law - As far as how difficult it is for my players so slaughter goblins, its easy. They usually kill them in waves with burning hands and cleave. So adding more goblins is not so much as a Cr increase as it is simply more hp for the fighter to hack through each round. they get the loot and xp for killing the additions, and it isn't hard in the slightest for them to kill them. Only the goblin commandos even stand a chance.

Which to be honest the fighter effectively had the goblins beat. They could hardly ever hit him, Gogmurts wand of produce flame was the only thing keeping the fighting going at a certain point. I actually didn't even use tangletooth. As far as the tunnel and hiding in it, the description says the 4 foot tunnels wind through the briars and nettles. It doesn't specifically say its flat and strait, nor would a tunnel dug by goblins probably be exactly strait. I do not see a reason there couldn't be a bend in the tunnel that would break line of sight. My "flavor" that you sound so distasteful towards was a bit to difficult and i have since made adjustments.

Bruthzumas treats Nuaila like a mother and is bitterly jealous of Tsuto because he thinks the half elf is attacking sandpoint while he is forbidden to do so. Nualia a cleric of Lahmatsu who advocates rape, monstrous orgies and a whole host of Conan the barbarian flavored cult scenes I could think of, none of which are normal for civilized races. Her taking Bruthzumas is, i think, more likely than keeping Tsuto as her only lover. I mean this is just speculation at this point but.. yeah I mean read her gods info in faiths of corruption, she probably would eventually. And betraying allies is also a way for her to advance her ritual, tsuto doesn't really have much use after sandpoint is gone..

And yes, the pc's determined that if all of them went the bridge would fall. The fighter being the heaviest person in the group stayed behind while the three of them crossed.

And your right I was stacking it against them a bit to much.

thanks all.

Edit: Ah, @Nobodyshome, its only three posts? Still it does give me a idea, plus i just found another thread about it.

Well they wont go to Magnimar yet, they have to go back to sandpoint for the next part. I'm going to throw in a few Side quests. Feast of Ravenmoor, to give them a more powerful feeling after having 4 character deaths thus far. Changing it to Ameiko sending the pc's to collect payment for a old shipment that her fathers clerks somehow missed. she needs the money to get new workers for the glassworks.

Then Dawn of the Scarlet Sun and Rise of the Goblin Guild.

They will find evidence of Nualias presence in magnimar where she will fight them for the first time, but now as a half fiend. I had changed her to a anti paladin, but she and her 2 remaining yeth hounds didn't even get involved with the fight. So i might change her back to her normal stat block and give her 2 levels in divine scion or something. Whatever combination makes her cr appropriate for that area of the AP.

Also i think she will convert Bruthzumas into a Lahmatsu worshiper and he will get a even more interesting upgrade.. not sure what class or prestige class would work best for that idea though.

I mean should I start over at the beginning of thistletop?

I was thinking of having Nualia open Big M's prison, take him and some of the npcs with her for later bonus encounters. Having Shelu go with the new pc who has been sent by Aldern from Magnimar looking for his obsession.

They will find the pc's being played with by the goblins. King ripnugget remains, and is having a celebration with a few drunken goblins.

RotRL, Anniversary Edition. This post contains spoilers for RotRL Chapter one.

Anyway.. Long story short, lol. The party was reduced to negative hit points with 3 of them being stable. I had them all be stabilized and imprisoned.. I also had Nualia try to force the Nethys Cleric wizard to open the portal of greed. He refused, and after a little torture she sacrificed him to Lahmatsu.

Nualia is planning on having Lyrie read over the Kitsunes book on thassalonian stuff to see if it will help her get to Big M. And this is were I am. I was originally going to go with, they stripp you of all gear, take it and after a few days the entire place is empty. They forget about the pcs after Big M is free'd and Nualia has the goblins repair the bridge and they leave to go to magnimar.

I'm really unsure here as to how to proceed. Nualia is said to return to Magnimar but i could make her go anywhere. I really want to make her and Bruthzumas into recurring villains. Tsuto, i figure will be killed by Big B eventually as he wants Nualia.

The pc's Also never killed gogmurt, he fled into the briars and didn't return to see if nualia could actually defeat them. I was thinking of having him go work for the giants.

So basically.. How should i handle the Pc's now captured and bound in their cells.

I had originally thought about making it evident that the goblin tribes needed to be put down and then having the pc's slaughter them one at a time. But they kept dying at thistletop... so yeah

Name of PC: Quin Ray
Class/Level: Wizard 2 Cleric 1
Adventure: Burnt Offerings
Catalyst: Sacrificed to Lahmatsu when the pc's failed to raid thistletop a 2nd time.

Hm... Well one of the pc's was a avid reader and had three books, one was a holy book of Lahmatsu, from the tombs. One book on thassalonian traditional history and Brodern's personal theory's on the empire and the old light.

I was thinking that with the addition of those tomes, she would now finally be able to find and free Malf in the level two dungeon. I was thinking of having her send out raiding party's of goblins, back up by Big B. They would be entirely about causing chaos. While the pc's track them Nualia is bringing two smaller goblin tribes into her fold.

With the failed raid on thistletop, me having mentioned there are one perhaps two patrols beyond what they found here on the lost coast road area near thistletop, that'd probably be enough to make a decent sized raid, all the while shes actually freeing the Barghst back at base still. What does she do afterward? Head to Magnimar or let the Barghast out for lunch time?

Here's a question..

My players alerted the goblins of Thistletop very quickly without realizing it. And with the addition of my own flavor of behavior to certain npcs tactics this is how things went.

Summary, party attacked thistletop, raised alarm quickly allowing the druid to organize a delaying tactic hoping that his added force of goblin refugees and the remaining goblin dogs will be enough. He also sends 2 goblins to tell Bruthazmus that the heros of sandpoint are here, and that one of them is a Elf, or half elf. This is enough to get the bug bear to lay in wait at the guard tower at the end of the bridge. With 4 dog riding goblins to stall the pc's as he kills them from above.

He kills 2, 3 technically but I honestly felt kinda bad, so the third person i gave a break to and said he 'fell' to his death, but like in the movies. Hes found by a fisherman and then by the ratfolk on his way back to sandpoint. I'd rather move things along than take time in session to do that.

Now, here is my question. Why would these guys just sit in thistletop waiting for the pc's to come back? I think its a lot smarter to go on the offensive and attack sandpoint and its surrounding areas with terrorizing tactics; while more goblin tribes are brought into the battle.

Why wouldn't Nualia just put her studies on hold, to establish a more secure perimeter for her to continue her work. I mean whats the point of just having people attack you right when you don't want them to.

I'm sure Nualia can get ad least two more tribes interested in fighting.

What are your thoughts on this. Would a full scale goblin uprising occur? and if it did how would it spread, and how fast? To be honest i kinda want to do this. They need a bit more beef on their bones. Because so far they have been taking a beating. So I'll use this to give them say 2 more levels or so. so 6th by the beginning of chapter 2.

1st Adventure Burnt Offerings 3 deaths so far. Two when they tried to take thistletop. I had the druid do everything he can to delay them and when they finally arrive the goblins were more than prepared.

Thanks all, this was very helpful!

Sry to double Post. My last post was a bit confused. I think i was half asleep. Anyway, this short side quest looks amazing and fits right in with RotRL. When is the best time to introduce this module?

I'm about to start running RotRL, and i was wondering. Does sandpoint, being a villages sponsored by magnimar nobles fall under the same laws as magnimar?

For instance, Korvosa has these laws.

But i can find no mention of this in the magnimar guide. The listed crimes are from the Korvosa Guide. Also last i read the korvosa guide i swore it stated there were things nobles could do do commoners, and were considered legal. But i cant seem to find them, such as smacking a beggar or something.

Does anyone know where such information is listed?

I'm a huge fan of dark heresy, a dnd style game based around the grim and dark future of the war hammer 40k universe. I've always wanted a system for armor and hp that wasn't what dnd normally had. And the Ultimate warrior book has presented just such a system. However i find that while people become incredibly easy to hit in comparison, that ranged combatants slowly become more and more useless as time goes on.

Think about it. A average ranger around 4th level has a composite strength bow for 2 point of strength and either some magical arrows or already has the bow enchanted, adding another plus 1 dmg. So that's 1d8 +3. on average that's 7 point of dmg per shot without any special feats or traits to gain additional dmg from bows. Now a average party make up has 2 armor people, a cleric who wheres medium or light armor and a fighter who wears heavy armor.

The cleric, lets say is wearing a chain shirt. So his armor needs 4 point to get past it. Leaving a lesser 3 points of dmg dealt compared to the original 7. Now you might say, well its a lot easier to hit people , so the average of projectiles fired landing blows increases. And you'd be right about that.

But somehow i still feel that projectile weapons are basically being given the shaft in comparison to melee weapons. The system works fine for magic and melee combat though.

So I was thinking about adding penetration to the game as a game mechanic. My first thought was that since guns are touch attacks in the normal system, they would bypass peoples armor when fired from the first range increment in this alternate system. But i don't see a mention of guns bypassing or penetrating peoples armor in the alternate system presented. guns don't even really do that much dmg, so I'm not sure what the makers of the system are afraid of, the deadliest guns I've ever seen in a medieval dnd game were in Arcanis, where pistols did 3d4 and rifles 4d4 with crits of 19-20 x3 and x4 respectively.

So the help i'm searching for here is how to effectively add penetration into ranged weapons mechanics. Crossbows, historically were feared because a conscript could pick one up and figure out how to use it with very little training compared to archers. And the force behind the bolt was greater than a archer could usually muster, and at closer ranges the bolts would go right through people armor.

So.... any suggestions?

My only idea so far is that when a sneak attack, or crit is made via a ranged weapon you bypass the targets armor up to the weapons crit modifier. So a Bow shot from the first range increment would bypass 3 armor if it was a sneak attack or a crit. Also all called shots that land hits would bypass armor based on the weapons crit modifier. What do you all think?

Note to my players, or rather one player specifically. AJ stop reading posts in the Dm section, especially for THIS AP, which you will be playing in. If I have reasonable proof your reading them, I'm not going to punish you. I'm going to punish your character, over and over and over. Cause I'm a dick like that.

First off, I've yet to finish the entire first chapter of the AP, i have the anniversary addition of the entire thing and I am eager to run it. But i plan on ad least reading half of chapter 2 before I begin the story. I've glanced here and there in later chapters and find myself almost unable to stop reading and go back to the early chapters.

Anyway, in just a few short minutes my entire train of thought was derailed as i read more and more forum posts about this epic adventure. There is a short module in Kaer Maga called Seven Swords of Sin. Now I've glanced over the mod, as they are no where near being able to play it yet as we haven't even started rise of the rune lords, but eventually it will fit right into the story arch. What i want to do is give on of my first level players a story based sword, which depending on the kind of character they are might change the weapon they get. But I'm willing to give them any one sword except the sword of lust.

Personally i have a brand new player to dnd entirely and I'd like to make him focus heavily on his characters story, And i think giving him, unknowingly a artifact that has lost a considerable amount of its power that will later come into play would go a long way in making him feel more a part of the game.

What I'm looking for here is advice on if this is a good idea or not. Hes likely going to be a human fighter. Also keep in mind that the rise of the rune lords campaign has these sin points you can build up without the dm ever letting you know he was even keeping track, and perhaps if the pc in question gets to many, something about the sword wakes up when it encounters.. say a pool of arcane energy later in the AP?

I'm about to start running RotRL with a group of 5 or 6 players. I'm definitely going to need a few modules to push between the main story line quests and what not. I'm most certainly going to do this side quest, I've got the anniversary addition of the AP, all in one book. I haven't read every chapter yet, I'm finishing chapter 1 right now and then going to read ad least half of chapter 2 before I run that way I'm always ahead, but i was wandering what you guys are referring to when you mention the sand point devil, is that another side quest after dealing with the ghost, one i haven't yet read in a later chapter?

Alright. I've done some reconsidering of my actions and words. There are things going on outside of this forums scope that I'm unwilling to post about as they are not appropriate here. But basically it boils down to this. I've over reacted about what i have perceived as going on.

The Dm and I have been friends for a long time, and as friends do sometimes we fight or clash on our points of view. And as I don't work as much or have a family life to attend to i have more free time to think and fester over certain things than a person who has these things does. I could go into more details but it isn't require on here.

This isn't a spoiler because he has taken his own path with the adventure as most dm's do in their own ways. based on your questions regarding the vampire, Jask from SS, the Cleric of Nethys is the Vampire. Circumstances led to him being slain via blood loss by Big Red and weather or not that's coherent with rules doesn't matter, given that story is usually more important than rules anyhow.

So anyway. Base on recent communications and very need apologies on my part given my words have been somewhat over the top and spiteful recently, I've been informed that it's more than likely that my character will be able to adapt to the situation as it is presented.

And btw he has read both postings of my question here and to paint him in a less than 'evil overlord' light I will quote something he has posted on our Facebook group.

"Ol Bes smiles on the freedom of the sea n that whov pledge their lives to it. But not all who brave the waves do so for tastes of glory. Some seek to plunder no other than the freedom itself.

SLAVERS I say!. . and spit on their kind, for they bring not glory nor fame but the fate of chains upon us all.

In life I knew not but the shackle and the chase of crimes for others greed. By Nethys' hand, I now sail upon the night's black sea cursed as a slave of undeath until none shall know more the cuff or whip..

..My crews shall profit from the fatten'd merchants, whose haughty galleons float their ways back to the greed of the North Not a coin shall I keep form myself, for this not be my part of the game. But of the cowards of the fleshtrade and them devil kissin' Chels who drive it, be ye warned cross my bow and it'll be a sea hell for all'v ya!"

~fro the marks of Jask Derindi(risen)-Dread Vampire & Pirate at large!

Alright. I've done some reconsidering of my actions and words. There are things going on outside of this forums scope that I'm unwilling to post about as they are not appropriate here. But basically it boils down to this. I've over reacted about what i have perceived as going on.

The Dm and I have been friends for a long time, and as friends do sometimes we fight or clash on our points of view. And as I don't work as much or have a family life to attend to i have more free time to think and fester over certain things than a person who has these things does. I could go into more details but it isn't require on here.

This isn't a spoiler because he has taken his own path with the adventure as most dm's do in their own ways. based on your questions regarding the vampire, Jask from SS, the Cleric of Nethys is the Vampire. Circumstances led to him being slain via blood loss by Big Red and weather or not that's coherent with rules doesn't matter, given that story is usually more important than rules anyhow.

So anyway. Base on recent communications and very need apologies on my part given my words have been somewhat over the top and spiteful recently, I've been informed that it's more than likely that my character will be able to adapt to the situation as it is presented.

And btw he has read both postings of my question here and to paint him in a less than 'evil overlord' light I will quote something he has posted on our Facebook group.

"Ol Bes smiles on the freedom of the sea n that whov pledge their lives to it. But not all who brave the waves do so for tastes of glory. Some seek to plunder no other than the freedom itself.

SLAVERS I say!. . and spit on their kind, for they bring not glory nor fame but the fate of chains upon us all.

In life I knew not but the shackle and the chase of crimes for others greed. By Nethys' hand, I now sail upon the night's black sea cursed as a slave of undeath until none shall know more the cuff or whip..

..My crews shall profit from the fatten'd merchants, whose haughty galleons float their ways back to the greed of the North Not a coin shall I keep form myself, for this not be my part of the game. But of the cowards of the fleshtrade and them devil kissin' Chels who drive it, be ye warned cross my bow and it'll be a sea hell for all'v ya!"

~fro the marks of Jask Derindi(risen)-Dread Vampire & Pirate at large!

I appriciate all of your advice, The reason i continue to play in the game is that the in game sessions, up untill the last few have been very fun. The Dm's attatide suddenly changed however over a off week where we switched from 1 game every monday to 1 game every 2 mondays. It literally flipped around and now i honestly wounder if he just wants me gone, or unhappy as punishment.

The Dm and the Player of the CN fighter, who is a Dm for other games agrees with him about how i need to curb my character to fit with where the AP is going. And.. I just truly do not agree with their logic. Yes when you make a character you make it for that AP and so he can function in the party but then suddenly flip flopping the game to something new and as the new player joins basically saying that all the old characters either have to get on board or be removed from the campaign just seems rude.

I dunno, as I've said to him perhaps just over the horizon at the next plot hook is a way that this ship can function so that all of the party members from the old AP and the new player character can function together but my character just doesn't see it.

And The Dm's argument has never been that there is a way for us to function together despite my observations that slavery is going to be a part of the plunder taken, but rather than I cannot possibly have a reason my character cannot function with the way the AP is going, and that Its me, not my character that has the problem.

I am interested in what he has to say to all of your questions. But i doubt he actually read any of these forum posts. Although I did link them both to him. I'll advise him to do so now however given your responses and questions. I'm not interested in spoilers so I'll advise him to open a new thread or something, but i doubt he will. He will most likely think that he doesn't need to check anything out as he has done nothing wrong.

And who knows, maybe just around the corner is this big thing he has planned that will make it all work. But that's not the feeling i get at all, either from his attitude or what he has said.

I've decided to prep a new char, i will still have my discussion in character but based on the rather a$$h0leish way the dm has communicated in the past recently i get the impression he just wants me to shut up and stop fighting him. I doubt my main character will continue to be in the game and quite frankly the 30 mile drive, gas money and the 4 hour sessions, only once every two weeks are other reason to not play.

@ Uri Meca, thank you I will consider what you have said for the upcoming session. The group is split down the middle. The type of pirate that the evil pc wants to be is one side. And on his side is the vampire, the intimidated crew and our CN Fighter. The fighter is willing to try and convince me to come to his side of the argument next session.

On the other side, is My character. Who wants to be more of a privateer or ad least a non slaving pirate and who does not know where any of his allies are at this time and knows that he is a prisoner of a vampire and a bunch of pirates. The other Ranger is also on his side, although unbeknownst to my character as they have no way of communicating currently and have not seen one another for about 3 days now.

Edit: How can i put this.. without giving away spoilers..

Ok, the Big RED THING is dead, the wart covered old lady has left the building. After Ship 'The B D ' took us safely off the island we were set adrift by a accident involving a hole in the side of our ship. Then the worm wood pulled up to us after a few days at sea. They sent over people to ask if anyone was aboard and then came back to press gang us. So I'm fairly certain we only did the first part of the SS unless that's all of it.

EDIT 2: I've decided to prep a new char, i will still have my discussion in character but based on the rather a$$h0leish way the dm has communicated in the past recently i get the impression he just wants me to shut up and stop fighting him. I doubt my main character will continue to be in the game and quite frankly the 30 mile drive, gas money and the 4 hour sessions, only once every two weeks are other reason to not play.

ah, well that's the issue. The PC captain is unlikely to allow me on board if my condition is no slavery. The player has made it clear that when his character gives a order as captain it is to be followed. I will consider that as well however for the next session.

One issue with that @Bltzkrg242 if i try to secretly be a robin hood kinda guy, I'm a ranger / zen archer and i don't have bluff, lol. So getting past the sense motive checks from the captain may be a challenge. Its worth considering though. And again i dont know if I could even successfully pull it off without being found out, I'll think more about it.

i originally posted this in the Skulls and Shackles section to get a larger group of viewers. If your interested click Here

Edit: I suppose i could just change his back story but that seems wrong somehow. But your correct i do enjoy this character. I suppose i could either change him to Bekyar, which would fit perfectly, or leave him as bas'o and go with the dark enlightenment thing.

i re posted this in the advice section to get a larger group of viewers. if your interested click Here

yes I'm very much aware that not all pirates are evil. And there there are pirates who strive to be as good as they can be with their actions yet still do pirate things such a plunder and what not.

And yes you only do have my side of the story here, but i've done my best to not be bias but I'm sure if he was to read this article he would have something to say.

I will take your advice and ask the dm about making space for my character. If you have any further suggestions feel free to keep posting them i will continue to monitor this thread for a bit. hell we only ever play 1 game in a two week period so its not like i dont have time.

Alright so my gaming group starting gaming about two months or so ago, maybe just a month. If you read all of this, you get a brownie point.

We originally started out on the Serpents Skull Adventure Path and made characters accordingly via the guide book.

I made a Tiefling N Ranger. Hes a native tribesmen of the Bas'O tribe and in the subgroup Zenji ( spelled correctly i think? ), there is more to his back story than this but basically he is not a naturally born Bas'O he was adopted by a Bas'O man who raised him in their tribal ways, claiming him in full as his child. Despite my characters desire to be Bas'O he and his father were forced to live outside the main camps, whenever camp was struck. No woman would have him and the friends he had slowly drifted away.

Over the years many of the younger hunters in the tribe who didn't like Jarvaxius, more like hated him began plotting ways to remove this 'taint' on their tribe. Its a imperfect world, the Bas'O people are no different. There were several 'accidents' over the years. Sometimes when Jar' would kill a elk or other animal that he was hunting and moved in to claim his prize. He was instead met with one or more of his fellow hunters. They would then claim he took one of their kills, stating that they had infact been tracking this animal for some time and marked it. A fight and death of one of more of the people would happen, Not because they or he were evil but because of pride and hatred. They are a tribal culture after all, they have some brutal laws that are considered totally legal i would imagine, as all of this is character fluff and there is no detailed writing on their cultural laws and how things are handled. This happened 3 times over the coarse of my characters life amongst them.

My character eventually decided that his presence was ruining his fathers life. Not to mention the battles with fellow Bas'O, which made me hate myself for being a 'monster'. On one moonlit night I had a dream of another group coming to kill me, this time no pretence or accident, they wanted me gone. And if my father had to die, so be it. Obviously they are the radicals of the tribe, not the norm. So in the middle of the night right after i woke up I gathered my things and left to find his own path. - the dm gave my Teifling a precognition ability that he cannot control ad least not very well. He ended up getting captured and sold into slavery by pirates, luckily the person who boat him was Captain Kovack, and he made him a indentured servant for 3 years.

Which is the end of the back story and the start of the adventure. The changes i made to him are, that being a sailor / smuggler of illegal but not harmful things on a merchant vessel made him more of a sailor now, so less tribal but still different. Likes to drink and smoke and party at the local brothels and taverns just like all sailors.

Ok, now we did some of the AP of Serpents Skull, mainly just the first place, no spoilers, but if you know it you know it.

Now, before we go to the next part, wanna state a few things. My guy is tribal. Tribal cultures have some strange laws. And he is no different in that he has a set of laws that guide him ( he became LN over the course of the adventure turning back to his tribal heritage and trying to rekindle his former nationality .) The Bekyar are the rival tribe of the Zenji - which the Bas'O are in. The Bekyar are slavers, robbers, raiders, killers, demon worshipers, and pirates. Their tribe and mine do not ever get along. The Bas'O are hunters and nomads, but also a warrior culture. They prefer to not act violently, but will do so over insults, offenses and other various tribal things, they are suspicious of foreigners and don't like people who rob graves and in general bring bad luck by taking cultural treasures.

My character, is a dirty dirty fighter. He would use poison if he knew how, he has used traps, he would slit a sleeping persons throat, he has slaughtered a entire village of people because they had been trying to kill him and eat him since he met them, and he is willing to steal and take what is most certainly not his, so long as hes taking it from people who he thinks have it coming or are his enemies.

He has cut the heart out of a particularly strong foe and taken a bite of it to show his dominance over the dead man and absorb some of his power ( all flavor, no in game benefits .)

Being a sailor for many years he doesn't like Chelaxians given their devil worship and pension for slavery. Infact pretty much doesn't care for any kinda slavers at all. Is willing to commit acts of piracy, and that does make him a pirate in all honesty, but for reasons he can justify. Such as sacking a merchant who is a slave trader, sacking a military vessel of a nation he dislikes, sacking another pirate ship, ransoming a captured prisoner, and making sure they are not mistreated while in captivity. Blowing up a shipping yard, with civilians inside if the mission calls for it given the circumstances.

All in all, my guy is a dirty bastard. But.. He is not a Raping and Pillaging and plundering, anything he can get his hands on pirate. And thus is where we run into my problem folks.

The AP has now switched to Skulls and Shackles.

And my character, Jarvaxius is simply not willing to be a pirate in the stereotypical sense, and while i do not know how the adventure will unfold or how my DM will change things I'm being left with the impression that the campaign has drastically changed. We lost a player because of the text in the adventure guide alone.

He was unwilling to make a character that would be a pirate in any way. We gained a new player and while I think the new guy is pretty cool, his character is a stereotypical pirate. He is of a evil alignment ( yes i know not all pirates are evil, stereotype here. ) he has intimidated the npc crew into following him and has the backing of a powerful npc vampire that the crew is even more afraid of. I've been found and tied up and gagged.

The Dm has decided to be nice and rather than just kill me for being a stow away; the vampire is a former npc companion and took pity on me? Declaring to the evil pc that I was to not be harmed (cause he wanted to kill me for being a stowaway), so long as I made a choice to either become a pirate and serve him -vampire, and as a extension of that servitude, obey the evil pc whom he has placed in charge. Or get off the boat at the next opportunity and don't make hostile actions.

My character and the other ranger, ironically we are both tieflings, are very much so opposed to the idea of being a stereotypical pirate's, which has been made OVERLY and CRYSTAL CLEAR in game by things pc's and npc's have said. That that is where the campaign is heading. This other ranger is also hiding right now / lost because of a storm but is returning( missed a few sessions because of personal things .)

The only person my character knows is the human fighter from the survivor group who has embraced piracy and is 100 percent behind his new captain and change in lifestyle. We agreed next session his character and mine would have a talk about why it is ok for me to be a pirate ( thus my character stays in the game ) or just in general him trying to convince me to come to their side in this matter.

A change in lifestyle... That's basically what this is. The Dm is telling me that even though I made a character for another AP, he said that this changeover was going to happen and that my attitude and argument is wrong. I and another player distinctly recall him saying the AP was NOT going to switch and then never bringing it back up until all of this happened.

I'm in this AP now, and the dm says that I have no reason to be 'forcing' my character to have this ideological confrontation. That I am the one with the problem, that I am the one causing the problem. He has even sited an example about why I am wrong in this entire situation.

http://www.giantitp.com/articles/tll307KmEm4H9k6efFP.html

Stating that as the Player it is my job to curb my characters entire life to meat the adventure path and the fun goes on, and the group keeps playing. And in all honesty i agree, if only i had made a character for Skulls and Shackles, not Serpents Skull. I put a LOT, way more than required, into taking time to make this character and now I'm having arguments / heated debates about how I'm essentially causing a disruption to the group by voicing that my character is not going to be a pirate, ad least not the kinda pirate that seems to be where the AP is pushing. - the player of the evil pc has stated that slavery, vice and everything a pirate is known for is what he is, and what he will push the crew towards, and punish those that do not agree.

I don't have a single problem with the new guy's character or the new guy. He came into the group for Skulls and Shackles. Don't get me wrong, my character and his as of right now probably wont get along well, but they haven't even had a chance to meet because of the various circumstances surrounding the last few games, the continuing argument revolves around the one line in Skulls and Shackles Pc guide that only PALADINS can absolutely possibly have a problem with being a pc in this AP, that no other class combo or alignment could possibly ever have issues in this campaign with being a pirate.

- for snarky remark, see the Sea Dragons sub section in Faiths of Balance under Abadar, LN clerics of the god who will tolerate slavery, WILL NOT work with pirates, they actively hunt them, they are actively planning on a way of destroying the shackles. I sited this example to him as the new character i had considered making until i read that. As i am completely willing to make a new character that better fits with the group. And his response was to say he'd change how Abadar is so i could play one and be a pirate if i wanted to play one. While i appreciate this Dm's willingness to alter the Game world, I'd rather not go that far as it seems wholly unnecessary. And just make a Cleric of Gozreh.

Again i don't know what the DM is planning or where the AP actually goes but at this point I've been given the option to either make a new character and retire this one or have him become a pirate and break his people's moral code relating to slavery and not hurting those he doesn't see as deserving it, but rather those I'm ordered to hurt by a captain who controls via fear and a whip. And while I've considered him breaking his code and just changing his mindset and trying to find a way to justify it based on past events, i really cant figure a way to do it. Mainly because I've already slowly changed him during the first AP, he went through a physical and mental metamorphosis, his time on that island change him in many ways and I've move him forward on a path that has led him to his current moral issues.

So all in all, here is my question. Is there a way for me to justify why my character Jarvaxius should change his lifestyle to become a pirate, keeping in mind the type of pirate he is going to be forced to become if he says yes. Or am i totally wrong and just need to shut up? Or should i just roll up my new cleric of Gozreh, who likes doing anything that's fun and involves destruction of civilization.

Links for incite into your choice.

http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Mwangi_%28human_ethnicity%29

http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Mwangi_Expanse

http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/17789/wikis/mwangi

A short recap. This issue has been in debate for so long in the group and the situation in game is this. A vampire has taken over the vessel, he has one true ally - the evil pc, he has several ally's of choice, one pc and many npcs, anyone else has been intimidated into service. I am locked up in the hold and although free of my bonds have no reason to try and escape as My character doesn't know of any way to escape. There are no islands or places of even remote safety nearby, that he knows of.

Going down fighting is something he has thought about but he feels more weighed down by the lost and confused feelings. Again i don't know where the campaign pushes the pc's but at this time based on everything my character knows, the ship is 100 percent pirate. And i have been given a ultimatum to either convert and do as i am told or get off at the next port, which will be at the beginning of the next session.

Is your opinion that despite the evidence pointing towards the fact that the ship i would be a sailor on is intent on enslaving and pillaging in every way a pirate can, that my character who has strong objections about slavery will function just fine with a group of people who want all of those things? OR should my character get off at the next port?

I really like this character but i don't know if i can justify him being a member of a crew that is most certainly going to push towards wanton destruction and enslavement at the first opportunity.

Edit: Oh and he has been informed that there is a port nearby, that they are going to, where he can get off.

@ Ferrinwulf, i should have included this in my post but after writing so much and editing for spelling and grammar several times i just didn't have it in me.

This issue has been in debate for so long in the group and the situation in game is this. A vampire has taken over the vessel, he has one true ally - the evil pc, he has several ally's of choice, one pc and many npcs, anyone else has been intimidated into service. I am locked up in the hold and although free of my bonds have no reason to try and escape as My character doesn't know of any way to escape. There are no islands or places of even remote safety nearby, that he knows of.

Going down fighting is something he has thought about but he feels more weighed down by the lost and confused feelings. Again i don't know where the campaign pushes the pc's but at this time based on everything my character knows, the ship is 100 percent pirate. And i have been given a ultimatum to either convert and do as i am told or get off at the next port, which will be at the beginning of the next session.

And your saying Ferrinwulf that despite the evidence pointing towards the fact that the ship i would be a sailor on is intent on enslaving and pillaging in every way a pirate can, that my character who has strong objections about slavery will function just fine with a group of people who want all of those things?

Edit: Oh and he has been informed that there is a port nearby, that they are going to, where he can get off. Maybe i posted this on the wrong forum section?

lol.. well how they could tell i'm Kellid of Varisian when i have half orc blood is a question i would ask. The orcish features i would have are no doubte quite pronounced with my 7 charisma. Thinking more on this however i have decided to instead be a Half orc of orc and human varisian stock.

Mother was captured by a war party and after i was born she stole away into the night, the tribe had long since moved on from where it had taken her and when she ran they were on a pass in the Tusked Mountains, she ran down a path and into Ustalav. After a month or twos hard road she finally found some civilization, and from their contacted the only relatives she had, the Szcarni.

And yes, i enjoy playing characters that are racial discriminated against, quite frankly the gaming world is overpopulated with ridiculously proportioned men and women who are all white or white with a tan, or pale white.

Edit: And they are all 'pretty' regardless of their charisma scores. Which i find strange because i thought charisma represented your ability to persuade people, ability to speak your mind or try and get your point ac crossed. If it just represents pure physical beauty then all the sorcerers should just walk around naked.

Alright so my gaming group starting gaming about two months or so ago, maybe just a month. If you read all of this, you get a brownie point.

We originally started out on the Serpents Skull Adventure Path and made characters accordingly via the guide book.

I made a Tiefling N Ranger. Hes a native tribesmen of the Bas'O tribe and in the subgroup Zenji ( spelled correctly i think? ), there is more to his back story than this but basically he is not a naturally born Bas'O he was adopted by a Bas'O man who raised him in their tribal ways, claiming him in full as his child. Despite my characters desire to be Bas'O he and his father were forced to live outside the main camps, whenever camp was struck. No woman would have him and the friends he had slowly drifted away.

Over the years many of the younger hunters in the tribe who didn't like Jarvaxius, more like hated him began plotting ways to remove this 'taint' on their tribe. Its a imperfect world, the Bas'O people are no different. There were several 'accidents' over the years. Sometimes when Jar' would kill a elk or other animal that he was hunting and moved in to claim his prize. He was instead met with one or more of his fellow hunters. They would then claim he took one of their kills, stating that they had infact been tracking this animal for some time and marked it. A fight and death of one of more of the people would happen, Not because they or he were evil but because of pride and hatred. They are a tribal culture after all, they have some brutal laws that are considered totally legal i would imagine, as all of this is character fluff and there is no detailed writing on their cultural laws and how things are handled. This happened 3 times over the coarse of my characters life amongst them.

My character eventually decided that his presence was ruining his fathers life. Not to mention the battles with fellow Bas'O, which made me hate myself for being a 'monster'. On one moonlit night I had a dream of another group coming to kill me, this time no pretence or accident, they wanted me gone. And if my father had to die, so be it. Obviously they are the radicals of the tribe, not the norm. So in the middle of the night right after i woke up I gathered my things and left to find his own path. - the dm gave my Teifling a precognition ability that he cannot control ad least not very well. He ended up getting captured and sold into slavery by pirates, luckily the person who boat him was Captain Kovack, and he made him a indentured servant for 3 years.

Which is the end of the back story and the start of the adventure. The changes i made to him are, that being a sailor / smuggler of illegal but not harmful things on a merchant vessel made him more of a sailor now, so less tribal but still different. Likes to drink and smoke and party at the local brothels and taverns just like all sailors.

Ok, now we did some of the AP of Serpents Skull, mainly just the first place, no spoilers, but if you know it you know it.

Now, before we go to the next part, wanna state a few things. My guy is tribal. Tribal cultures have some strange laws. And he is no different in that he has a set of laws that guide him ( he became LN over the course of the adventure turning back to his tribal heritage and trying to rekindle his former nationality .) The Bekyar are the rival tribe of the Zenji - which the Bas'O are in. The Bekyar are slavers, robbers, raiders, killers, demon worshipers, and pirates. Their tribe and mine do not ever get along. The Bas'O are hunters and nomads, but also a warrior culture. They prefer to not act violently, but will do so over insults, offenses and other various tribal things, they are suspicious of foreigners and don't like people who rob graves and in general bring bad luck by taking cultural treasures.

My character, is a dirty dirty fighter. He would use poison if he knew how, he has used traps, he would slit a sleeping persons throat, he has slaughtered a entire village of people because they had been trying to kill him and eat him since he met them, and he is willing to steal and take what is most certainly not his, so long as hes taking it from people who he thinks have it coming or are his enemies.

He has cut the heart out of a particularly strong foe and taken a bite of it to show his dominance over the dead man and absorb some of his power ( all flavor, no in game benefits .)

Being a sailor for many years he doesn't like Chelaxians given their devil worship and pension for slavery. Infact pretty much doesn't care for any kinda slavers at all. Is willing to commit acts of piracy, and that does make him a pirate in all honesty, but for reasons he can justify. Such as sacking a merchant who is a slave trader, sacking a military vessel of a nation he dislikes, sacking another pirate ship, ransoming a captured prisoner, and making sure they are not mistreated while in captivity. Blowing up a shipping yard, with civilians inside if the mission calls for it given the circumstances.

All in all, my guy is a dirty bastard. But.. He is not a Raping and Pillaging and plundering, anything he can get his hands on pirate. And thus is where we run into my problem folks.

The AP has now switched to Skulls and Shackles.

And my character, Jarvaxius is simply not willing to be a pirate in the stereotypical sense, and while i do not know how the adventure will unfold or how my DM will change things I'm being left with the impression that the campaign has drastically changed. We lost a player because of the text in the adventure guide alone.

He was unwilling to make a character that would be a pirate in any way. We gained a new player and while I think the new guy is pretty cool, his character is a stereotypical pirate. He is of a evil alignment ( yes i know not all pirates are evil, stereotype here. ) he has intimidated the npc crew into following him and has the backing of a powerful npc vampire that the crew is even more afraid of. I've been found and tied up and gagged.

The Dm has decided to be nice and rather than just kill me for being a stow away; the vampire is a former npc companion and took pity on me? Declaring to the evil pc that I was to not be harmed (cause he wanted to kill me for being a stowaway), so long as I made a choice to either become a pirate and serve him -vampire, and as a extension of that servitude, obey the evil pc whom he has placed in charge. Or get off the boat at the next opportunity and don't make hostile actions.

My character and the other ranger, ironically we are both tieflings, are very much so opposed to the idea of being a stereotypical pirate's, which has been made OVERLY and CRYSTAL CLEAR in game by things pc's and npc's have said. That that is where the campaign is heading. This other ranger is also hiding right now / lost because of a storm but is returning( missed a few sessions because of personal things .)

The only person my character knows is the human fighter from the survivor group who has embraced piracy and is 100 percent behind his new captain and change in lifestyle. We agreed next session his character and mine would have a talk about why it is ok for me to be a pirate ( thus my character stays in the game ) or just in general him trying to convince me to come to their side in this matter.

A change in lifestyle... That's basically what this is. The Dm is telling me that even though I made a character for another AP, he said that this changeover was going to happen and that my attitude and argument is wrong. I and another player distinctly recall him saying the AP was NOT going to switch and then never bringing it back up until all of this happened.

I'm in this AP now, and the dm says that I have no reason to be 'forcing' my character to have this ideological confrontation. That I am the one with the problem, that I am the one causing the problem. He has even sited an example about why I am wrong in this entire situation.

http://www.giantitp.com/articles/tll307KmEm4H9k6efFP.html

Stating that as the Player it is my job to curb my characters entire life to meat the adventure path and the fun goes on, and the group keeps playing. And in all honesty i agree, if only i had made a character for Skulls and Shackles, not Serpents Skull. I put a LOT, way more than required, into taking time to make this character and now I'm having arguments / heated debates about how I'm essentially causing a disruption to the group by voicing that my character is not going to be a pirate, ad least not the kinda pirate that seems to be where the AP is pushing. - the player of the evil pc has stated that slavery, vice and everything a pirate is known for is what he is, and what he will push the crew towards, and punish those that do not agree.

I don't have a single problem with the new guy's character or the new guy. He came into the group for Skulls and Shackles. Don't get me wrong, my character and his as of right now probably wont get along well, but they haven't even had a chance to meet because of the various circumstances surrounding the last few games, the continuing argument revolves around the one line in Skulls and Shackles Pc guide that only PALADINS can absolutly possibly have a problem with being a pc in this AP, that no other class combo or alignment could possibly ever have issues in this campaign with being a pirate.

- for snarky remark, see the Sea Dragons sub section in Faiths of Balance under Abadar, LN clerics of the god who will tolerate slavery, WILL NOT work with pirates, they actively hunt them, they are actively planning on a way of destroying the shackles. I sited this example to him as the new character i had considered making until i read that. As i am completely willing to make a new character that better fits with the group. And his response was to say he'd change how Abadar is so i could play one and be a pirate if i wanted to play one. While i appreciate this Dm's willingness to alter the Game world, I'd rather not go that far as it seems wholly unnecessary. And just make a Cleric of Gozreh.

Again i don't know what the DM is planning or where the AP actually goes but at this point I've been given the option to either make a new character and retire this one or have him become a pirate and break his people's moral code relating to slavery and not hurting those he doesn't see as deserving it, but rather those I'm ordered to hurt by a captain who controls via fear and a whip. And while I've considered him breaking his code and just changing his mindset and trying to find a way to justify it based on past events, i really cant figure a way to do it. Mainly because I've already slowly changed him during the first AP, he went through a physical and mental metamorphosis, his time on that island change him in many ways and I've move him forward on a path that has led him to his current moral issues.

So all in all, here is my question. Is there a way for me to justify why my character Jarvaxius should change his lifestyle to become a pirate, keeping in mind the type of pirate he is going to be forced to become if he says yes. Or am i totally wrong and just need to shut up? Or should i just roll up my new cleric of Gozreh, who likes doing anything that's fun and involves destruction of civilization.

Links for incite into your choice.

http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Mwangi_%28human_ethnicity%29

http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Mwangi_Expanse

http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/17789/wikis/mwangi

Side note: If you are in my game, if you are the Dm, if you are reading this and who know who i am. Do not infer anything from this article. I am purposely leaving out names and specific events as they are not needed to understand the situation, this is not Jerry Springer and I am NOT interested in starting a debate with any of you on THIS forum, we already have enough of that going on with the Facebook stuff.

I've been reading over the abilities of the inquisitor class and the judgements are interesting but some of them seem somewhat underpowered. The ones that provide a bonus via every 3 levels are fine. The ones that only give a bonus per 5 levels is a bit retarded. For instance Destruction gives a plus 1 to all dmg rolls for every 3 levels its counterpart, Justice only gives a plus 1 per every five levels, this seems a bit dumb to me.

Mainly because its a once a day ability that stays once a day for a long time, and even when its more than once a day its still only one at a time, you cant activate two judgements at once, ad least not that i can see.

Also the slayer class ability which is beyond the AP as its level is 17 i think, mentions something from the beta build about the judgements increasing in power as they did during the beta build. Is there some errata I'm missing?

I've been searching the boards and I've found a few builds for inquisitor so perhaps I'll just read those if no one has any suggestions.

It occurred to me that I should explore game play as a less exotic race. As i tend to play ones on the fringes very often. Given the various regional and cultural conflicts Ustalav has. I think I'd rather play a half orc instead of a Dhampir. Vampires can still be something i hunt, and can still be linked to my back story easily enough.

Moving on with the half orc concept, mother was a Varisian Scarzi, father was a Kellid Half orc. I'm now thinking about being a inquisitor of Cayden Cailean.

lol.. Now the Grave Walker Witch has switched to a Oracle of Bones for a better fit for her character concept. Alright, i'm not going to keep jumping back and forth, which is what i do way to often. So for the purposes of this discussion let us continue building on my inquisitor.

Race: Dhampir - mainly because i enjoy playing characters of a unwanted nature to add to their character and increase interaction between npcs and pcs for that matter. That said i could also play a human of Kellid or Scarnzi lineage and face a equal amount of discrimination.

I am a huge fan of the tiefling race, I like the idea of half orcs but find their racial's when compared to a tiefling who will basically experience the same amount of hatred to be sub par, and while all races are available I need to justify why such a creature is in this particular area at this time. So i wont be playing a Kitsune of Styx anytime soon, not that i wanted to really.

Given your previous statement about how vital a Cleric is to the party I think i'm going to go with Cleric. However i will keep your advice in mind should he not survive. Thank you for your help.

2 traits. Traits are, one from the players guide linking us to the AP and one of our choice, not from the players guide.

This is normal Pathfinder stuff aside from the point buy. Favored class applies as normal, I'd pick inquisitor obviously. I would take hit points i think given my con.

Feats, Undead Hunter? I only get one, perhaps point blank shot instead of undead hunter and then precise shot at level 3?