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The Sarcastic Sage said wrote: You are forgetting the domain power (Wis Bonus) times per day, so technically it's 2 1st level spells, +Heal/Harm 6 times per day, +4 uses of their domain power (which at first level, is set to 1st level). So it actually ends up with a first level Cleric casting 12 first level spells. Now while that may be 1 less first level spell per day then your PF1 example, considering the reduction in spells per day amongst all casters in PF2, I feel that Clerics suffered the least. You are forgetting that PF1e clerics have them too. They can use most of them WIS +3 times a day. So 12 against 21? ;-) But i agree with you about the current state of the cleric. The class is clearly one of the most powerful at the moment.The Sarcastic Sage said wrote: Also, unless your GM was being very generous with points for point buy, and you are willing to eat a lot of 7's in your other attributes, or you were the luckiest guy at the table, having a 20 Wisdom, and an 18 Charisma at level 1 was highly improbable in PF1. Having an 18 Wisdom and 16 Charisma in PF2 is simply a matter of player choice. Of course it is. So what? ![]()
PossibleCabbage said wrote: I mean, a level 1 Cleric with 18 wis and 16 Charisma can cast 9 first level spells now! He can cast 2 level 1 spells and 6x Heal/ Harm through channel energy = 8? A Cleric in PF1e (20 Wis, 18 CHA) could cast 4 level 1 spells and channel energy 9 times (3 + CHA + 2 Extra Channel Feat) a day. ![]()
shroudb wrote: Secondary, martial in this edition do much more damage than blasters. Can you proof that claim? Sorcerer spell level 9 Cone of Cold: 19d6+9 = average 75 damage in a 30/60 feet cone.
Show me how a martial class that can even come close to that. shroudb wrote: The only case for martial/caster discrepancy comes from picking up their early damage options through multiclass (notably double slice) This is not true. A Caster can raise his STR to 20(22 with item) and can take armor training/ martial weapon training with general feats. No multiclassing needed.![]()
I Think there is a serious problem with the two "summon" spells.
A few examples to make my points clear: Level 1, Animated Broom, +7 attack against an average AC of 15
When you add the need for concentration and the limited control over the summons, Summon Monster/ Natures Ally seems to be an awful choice to prepare/ learn at higher levels. My suggested fix:
Level 1, Animated Broom, +7 attack against an average AC of 15
What do you think? ![]()
10 Monsters at level -2 are 40 XP above the extreme encounter budget and therefore should be the end of most groups. But what i mean by "low level monsters" against "high level characters": 10 Monsters at level -5 will hit characters at 14-16+ and can not crit. 10 Monsters at level -10 will hit characters only on a natural 20. You see the problem here? ![]()
More crits against low level enemies are not relevant, because they are next to no threat to high level characters.
This would be much less extreme if there is no level-bonus. ![]()
I agree.
Something like this:
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Nice build.
#1: Lacking option to attack flying enemies.
#2: Bad Reflex and Will Saves.
#3: Bad Attack Spells.
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I agree with MrShine here.
Clerics and wizards in particular can reach equal levels of offensive power with their weapons AND have 10th level spellcasting at their disposal.
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These are some valid points. I think #4.5 is more of a gerneal problem with a lot of powers and spells. Small modifiers with a short effect durations paired with high monster saves can be very frustrating for players. This will lead to generic blaster casters with very few utility spells.
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Honestly, i think the -2 untrained modifier is already close to a "dump skill".
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Why not change the proficiency modifier to -2 untrained, +0 trained, +2 expert, +4 master and +6 legendary? That way the difference between untrained and legendary will be a lot more noticable. This also leads to better skills/ saves/ attacks/ Spell DCs in line with the new monster stats and gives player classes an edge over them at high levels. |