Psychotic Monk's page

See, there's a response I like! Player solutions to player problems!

I don't see a problem for me in that quote.

I have mentioned a few, but you seem to be ignoring them. I think your practice of joining a group and then attacking and killing your own members, will be your ticket to the ban hammer.

Sorry if I missed the link or dev quote, but I still havn't seen anything that says my methods are bannable. If they are, then I certainly wouldn't use those particular methods, but I don't see any reason that thinks like awoxing should be bannable and I havn't seen anything from a dev that says that they will be.

@Brutus If my opponent, who is finding ways to cause me harm without leaving the equivalent of highsec (economic methods come to mind) then why shouldn't I be allowed to use whatever tools I devise in order to hit them back?

Personal vendetta doesn't say anything about my methods, just my motivation. And I would think harming someone because of revenge or something similar viewed as valid reasons. And even if it wasn't valid reasons... so? I don't think someone needs to write an essay before they engage in pvp inside of a pvp game.

I havn't said anything about doing things disallowed by the TOS/EULA. I'm glad bans will be account-wide. It wouldn't make sense otherwise.

No one has told me that my style of play or any of the things I've suggested I'd like to do will be disallowed by PFO. Have I misread?

Psychotic Monk wrote:

Although it occurs to me we're talking a lot about eve when we're supposed to be talking about PFO.

OK, a PFO question, how do you expect to deal with this?

Quote:

Traitor/Betrayer: Leaving a player or NPC group after betraying them may result in a flag: Traitor for PC groups and Betrayer for NPC alliances. These flags last for quite some time to allow the player to be punished for whatever actions were taken against the previous member group.

I'm not sure. It depends on how what the effects of the flag are and how long they last, what triggers them, and if I can talk my way out of it. There are a lot of variables in play there. Worst case scenario I let that character cool down and do work on other characters. I'm sure there's a ton of options.

Bludd, as an experienced EvE criminal I can tell you with very large amounts of confidence that very few kinds of the work effect your sec status and while very occationally a character needs to be sold (as is entirely legal within eve) characters never need to be deleted and, in fact, deleting characters to avoid the consequences of crime is against the rules.

Although it occurs to me we're talking a lot about eve when we're supposed to be talking about PFO.

This meme of only honourable combat, is it a player construct only or is this something the devs are supporting as well.

Are there not going to be any way for a cleverer or more dedicated opponent to do damage to a numerically superior opponent? That seems pretty boring, that the solution going to be determined only by who has the most dudes.

My friends find me perfectly trustworthy.

Yes. If I'm killing them it's because they are my enemy. Also, that seems a bit like a semantic difference.

Ah, I was misunderstanding. As someone just coming into this now I've got a somewhat incomplete view of what we expect is going to be implemented. I thought you were saying that there was going to be a mechanical advantage to Good.

Cool then.

If you'll humor me, why should arbitrarily declaring yourself Evil and killing Good have inherent drawbacks while declaring yourself Good and killing Evil not?

This is getting a little into derail territory, but what you're describing is two groups forming inter-supporting communities where one has a stated goal to hunt down and destroy the other and one has a stated goal to engage in (sometimes noncombat) pvp with a wide variety of people mostly because they enjoy it.

Which of these groups is the evil one in this scenario again? Which of these groups should be given in-game mechanical advantages?

Organizational espionage and social engineering raids will probably be something you can only do once per character, if that often; getting the trust required will be hard after the first time it happens. I don't think such behavior should count as griefing, especially if you show a large personal profit.

Attacking people for the explicit purpose of making them afraid of being attacked is pretty low-rep, if it isn't outright griefing.

Declaring vendetta against every group that operates under a 'protection' agreement will probably get you expelled from everywhere, because nobody will want to risk harboring someone who makes that many enemies.

It's been my experience with several different games that you can typically resuse a character roughly once per enemy organization at a minimum. This also prompts the question if I would need character skills to do damage or if surprise and superior planning would be enough to overcome low character ability and do some reasonable amounts of damage.

There's also the point that you can do a fair amount of damage without getting burned. Theft often leaves little trace, relaying enemy comms can be a huge help (even in the middle of a fight "they're going to flank from the right, get some defensive dudes over there.") and you can even grind morale down from the inside or throw a wrench into the gears by making sure that whatever jobs you are entrusted with are done badly or get pounced on by the enemy at just the wrong time.

@Sade

I don't mean the forum community. I mean in-game organizations. I think it's fairly safe to assume that in-game organizations will engage in some form of conflict at some point...?

Also, it occurs to me that as different communities will likely have differtent norms, do we know of any plans to be able to set standings regarding who will be accepted into a community and who won't, rather than a somewhat arbitrary judgement on methods, rather than result?

Well, my methods include joining peoples corporations to take advantage of the rules that allow me to shoot them, theft, and suicide ganking. These are things that are well within the rules of EvE, and as a sandbox MMO I was under the impression that this flavour of work would also be acceptable in PFO. If I'm mistaken, my apologies. I only just got here.

By personal vendetta, I mean that I've come across them before and have some reason to continue a previous conflict. By ideological differences I mean that I tend to view the desire to encourage newbies to hide away from PvP and have no ambition other than to toil away for the benifit of an exploitive CEO repugnant and do what I can to destroy those organizations so the members can find places that will provide them with better gameplay.

My chosen peers are those that engage in similar work to me and have compatible attitudes, and I do a great deal both in and out of game to support them and their playstyle.

But imagining for a second I were attached to a group that you guys would consider otherwise within all norms, am I really to understand that engaging in theft or targeted murder or spying on their behalf is something PFO wouldn't be open to? My bias may be showing here, but is ~honourable~ combat at dawn really the only form of organizational competition we'll accept?

edit: I don't mean to show up just to pimp my own blog, but for an idea of what the day-to-day in my community looks like, you can check out www.belligerentundesirables.com

Hey guys.

I come from EvE where I am typically considered a griefer, mostly due to my methods. I have a variety of reasons to do what I do, including profit, personal vendetta and ideological differences. I work for my community, raising newbros into the life (including spending significant [stolen] monies on them), freeing the oppressed from their crappy gaming organizations, and generally being a good dude in the eyes of my chosen peers.

I feel like the system you're describing will punish me because of my methods, no matter what my intentions may be. I also see talk of being barred from things due to a low reputation. Is this something we expect would be automagic, meaning I may end up barred from the settlement belonging to the community I serve, or is it something we expect will be player controlled?

The D&D style alignment system is a bit limited to really talk about the actions of a person.

I don't mean to slaughter a sacred cow around here but I'm not sure if it can accurately capture the actions of a player in a sandbox environment.

Like, if I proactively hunt and kill my enemies, that makes me evil. If, on the other hand, I proactively hunt my enemies because they will kill me if I give them the chance because they view me as evil, I'm just on the wrong side of the propaganda.

Just food for thought.