Prost's page

I would like to contend that that AM BARBARIAN wins the CMD side of thing here.

Can combos be created to beat him? Sure, people (finally) seem to be coming up with some valid combos and some acceptable assumptions.

But what I find gives power to AM BARBARIAN is the simple fact that:

His tactics don't change, really. He might need to adapt, but for the most part he doesn't need to do anything different. He sees, he rages, he charges, it dies.

If it was a 1st level wizard or a 20th level wizard, he's going to treat it pretty much the same. When he uses what ability will of course go with the flow of the combat, but, honestly, Barbarian wakes up, grabs his stick and he's ready. He could be naked and it not really change the outcome against the CASTYS as either they aren't attacking his AC or they have some way TO attack his AC and are still going to hit even if armored.

Besides the limiting Beast totem line, the barbarian still has plenty of open feats and rage powers too. Even his Archtype is fairly flexible.

But the Wizards have several things they have to do.
Be a Diviner.
Treat AM BARBARIAN as a 20th level threat EVERY time. If we put Am Barbarian back on the Dire bat, he could really just be some 8th level Shmoo. He doesn't have some sign over his head that says '20th level, cut loose or die'

And that's not even taking into consideration the likelihood of the wizard having the right spells memorized all the time, for sure. We conceed that you still have to wonder, really, you'd do all that just for one guy you see coming on the horizon on a bat...or a CR 10 dragon even?

If it was a GM gaming it (still ignoring the fluff but just running a Hackmaster set of encounters) and that is how the player wizard truly reacted he would be dead because 4th level characters would bleed his 9th level spell combos before anything interesting happened.

But the Barbarian...he just spends 1 to 5 rage rounds of his 50+ rounds, uses his CLW wand(s) and moves on to the next thing.

His tactics are viable. They are not part of some contrived scenerio.

AM BARBARIAN's build works against CASTYS and FIGHTYS. In group combat or Solo combat, he does pretty much the same time. On the first encounter or the 7th, he's ready to rock. That is a build that WOULD function in a high level party. Magicly locked door? Don't worry wizard, I spend 1 of my /50/ rage rounds and it's done.

There is no way to contain him. He CAN break out of Adamantine chains. He CAN chew through freaking bars. And he can do it in an Anti-magic field while drunk.

The wizard, sure, he's got options. Lots of them. But he has a greater margin of error. If he assumes AM BARBARIAN is not a 20th level mage killer he's toast. And even then, I'm not convinced that the Barbarian with a ring of Spell turning and the anti-negative levels broach is promised to die before his rage comes on.

But even then it doesn't matter. The barbarian is solid. He can be built without the dumped Int (or as Dumped) and have some skills, he can sunder magic, he can take hits, he can demolish most things in a round, he has more HP than a mountain, he can escape, naked, from most confinements. DR doesn't mean anything to him as he does enough damage to bypass it. He can, by the rules, even have a dragon freak'en cohort that really cuts down on transportation issues.

In short, he is a character that has SOLID options without needing spells. There are few realistic challenges he can't just brute force his way through and he doesn't require some well thought out plan or combo to do it. Magic items are really just gravy or protect against those really crappy 'hahah, gotya!' effects (like negative levels).

but you know, there are even rage powers that let you ignore ability damage and negative levels.

Does that mean he can do everything? No, of course not. But this is a character that scales. He starts bad ass. At 3rd level he can be doing +9 to hit with a MW weapon and PA and doing 2d8+12 with an Large Bastard Sword. At 6th level, he can dispell magic effects and if he can take 2 rounds between attempts, he can do it 15 to 20 times a DAY! Sorcerers and Oracles get it at the same level. Only wizards, witches and Clerics (Not even DRUIDS) get it sooner and then only by 1 level and sure as hell aren't doing it 15 times in a day, every day, any day.

There really is no sharp drop off of power gain for AM BARBARIAN. He levels, he gets cooler, gets more stuff and can still handle most things with reasonable gusto and unless there is some bizarre circumstance, he doesn't have the 'oooh, I prepared my 'puzzle solving spell list' not my 'world traveling' list today issues.

And if you don't agree with me, I would say just think on this.

If you hadn't read this thread and really considered what AM BARBARIAN could do and you saw him...would you take the steps people are just now after 20+ pages laying down that MAY (and I stress MAY) be able to beat him?

AM BARBARIAN didn't need to read this thread. He doesn't care WHAT caster build you go with. His tactics were the same before and after. Casters need to plan for him. He doesn't need to plan for them.

Offer to be a Teacher Assistant (TA) for him.

Some great games I've played in have been where the GM just wants to tell the story. When it comes to the Krunch a player steps up and helps manage things, keeping the numbers rolling out and combat flowing. Sometimes even help put together NPCs and the like so they are a challenge.

Can the PCs get away with a lot more and 'pull the wool' over his eyes? Sure. But if the PC's are mature and if the groups having fun, it works out.

Can he overextend things and might the 8 level monk PC somehow also have the Pounce ability as he charges and flurries? Sure. Is it a big deal? 9 times out of 10 it won't be. Pathfinder is pretty adaptable. 'Make a save' can cover a lot of random 'hmm' scenerios that pop up.

As long as everyone is on the same page for expectations it should work out fine.

Heroism is my favorite level 2-3 Buff (go bards)

+2 to hit, regardless of dex or str character and doesn't conflict with enhancement bonuses

+2 to saves (barbarians don't get full value of this, but still, +2 to 2 of their saves, unless they are superstitious, but they still get 2 of the 3 perks)

+2 to skills. I play in skill heavy games and it can really make a difference. Make a good check better make a poor check more viable.

And best of all...the duration. 10 min/level is so much better than 1 min/level.

The DD is pretty solid.

I'd go with a Glove of Storing (as it's a solid idea) and get a 2 handed weapon. (Large Bastard Sword)

That + Power Attack gives a solid damage base. With Glove of Storing you can put weapon away, cast, recall weapon. Though the DD is really designed to just cast 1 or 2 spells at start then get rollings.

Add in Arcane Strike

Start with round 1 Dance of a Hundred Cuts. At 13th level that is +4 Hit, Damage, +AC, and Acrobatics for that Tumble check you will be making a ton of. (It's Morale, but that means you don't have to worry about Heroism or the like)

Swift action to get your Rain of Blows Dance going for another +3 Hit, +AC and Reflex (So +7 Hit, +4 Damage, +7 AC, + 7 Reflex) You also are now Hasted so have 3 Attacks. With Fleet you're at +25 speed so you can tumble for 25 feet a turn which is usually plenty.

Second turn you are all set, can use Swift for Arcane strike. Make 3 power attacks.

That's 2d8 + 4 for DoHC + 3 for AS + 9 for Power Attack before counting str and enhancement. If those are even moderately competent you can do 75 + 6d8 damage a turn if you hit three times. Given you have a new +4 to hit After the power attack before you worry about things like flanking, weapon focus, etc you should have at least 2 solid attacks in a turn.

Take Gallant Inspiration (2nd level, Verbal only, Immediate action spell that adds +2d4 to failed attack and skill. Great for you AND allies) and Saving Finale (1st level spell, reroll save if under Bardic Performance. Less usefully as only applies to you. Also has Somantics, so need to use Glove of Storing to put sword away at times)

While this is certainly not the highest DPR build you could dream up, it only takes 3 feats (EWP, Arcane Strike, and Power Attack) and 3 spells, (1st, 2nd, and a 4th) with just 1 round of prep. Gallant Inspiration does cut into your next round Arcane Strike, but Hitting vs 3 to 9 points of damage is a solid trade off.

Given you can have all the feats this requires by 5th level and tons of spells still to chose you can eek a lot more into the build. Discordant Voice is another solid choice. If you want to be super nice you can spend 1st round casting Haste for the party (won't help you) and then buff self 2nd turn and then get to the whomping. But if they can get haste from other source I wouldn't worry about it.

I think the Inquisitor is a great fit for a witcher style character. Monster Lore is a class feature, as is being a loner, intimidating and very adaptable to all kinds of circumstances with both the flexibility of Judgement and their pretty solid divine spell list.

Adding Brew Potion allows them to 'over prepare' some buff spells and you can take a Domain (Rage?) to give you an 'overdrive' / mutagen feel.

But with just cosmetic description of the judgements and using Divine Favor/Divine Power/Bull Str/Etc you can get a nice buff chain going.

Also, the Bane Ability and the ability to change your judgements mid-combat can give a good sense of "Stance" switching, and just the feeling of being utterly prepared at all points in time.

THe Mutagens of the Alchemist are kinda cool, but really I think the Inquistor is more 'in theme' as it's just a Feat for Brew Potion where Alchemist adds in the bombs and bizare spell casting style.

It also isn't hard to image the Witcher order as some splinter Divine group of some Diety who has lost contact with the 'mother church' and hasn't seen a Cleric or other real 'divine' leader so the hands of the chruch (the Witchers) just recruit and train with the 'understood mission' (Protecting Humanity from monsters) while not really having a 'deeper' theology.