just a quick question is cats grace just about the best low lvl buff spell or what one spell and you get plus 2 to AC,reflex save, initiative,ranged to hit and a host of skills is ther a better low lvl buff
and lets not forget melee to hit if your useing weapon finesse
In my experience, my PCs usually wear the heaviest armour possible, so they probably wouldn't get +2 to AC because of the max dex limit. The other stuff is nice but not amazing.
Haste does almost all of that, plus an extra attack. It is higher level than Cat's Grace, but still a low-level buff in the grand scheme of things.
Cat's Grace is pretty decent, but it has a fairly short duration when cast in combat it takes a round to cast for a single target spell, with initiative and skill bonus being used very rarely.
Many characters tend to be optimized in armor choice already without a short term buff, leaving reflex save, to hit bonus and a possible bonus to AC as benefit, that is pretty decent though likely to be outdone by shield of faith or barkskin depending on level and magical items possessed.
Haste is downright (too) powerful and no low level buff can compare to it, prayer is pretty sweet as well.
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In my experience, my PCs usually wear the heaviest armour possible, so they probably wouldn't get +2 to AC because of the max dex limit. The other stuff is nice but not amazing.
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The initiative modifer won't matter in most cases because you've already rolled initiative and I've never seen a DM adjust initiative values (not order) once combat begins. Plus Cat's Grace is not on the cleric spell list and they are the class which is most likely to be buffing the party. (Bards are likely to do bardic performance before casting buff spells - arcane casters have CC options).
If I were going for those low level buffs then the ones I have always prefered were spells like Bears Endurance or Aid. I prioritize anything that will give the target more hit points over antyhing else. Haste would come in at a close 3rd in the list of priorities, and then spells to boost your armor, like Shield or Mage Armor. Those are fourth because they are more likely not to stack than the other spells.
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Heroism is my favorite level 2-3 Buff (go bards)
+2 to hit, regardless of dex or str character and doesn't conflict with enhancement bonuses
+2 to saves (barbarians don't get full value of this, but still, +2 to 2 of their saves, unless they are superstitious, but they still get 2 of the 3 perks)
+2 to skills. I play in skill heavy games and it can really make a difference. Make a good check better make a poor check more viable.
And best of all...the duration. 10 min/level is so much better than 1 min/level.
Heroism is my favorite level 2-3 Buff (go bards)
+2 to hit, regardless of dex or str character and doesn't conflict with enhancement bonuses
+2 to saves (barbarians don't get full value of this, but still, +2 to 2 of their saves, unless they are superstitious, but they still get 2 of the 3 perks)
+2 to skills. I play in skill heavy games and it can really make a difference. Make a good check better make a poor check more viable.
And best of all...the duration. 10 min/level is so much better than 1 min/level.
It is just that morale bonus does not stack so well with other buffs, especially bard buffs make it a bit redundant, and while heroism is good haste outright eclipses any 3rd level buff spell in most cases. The main thing heroism got going is the duration though, which is very nice.
Rage + Cats Grace + Heroism + Haste + Blur = PWNAGE ... hell why not throw in a Enlarge Person too. Bwhahaha!!!
It is just that morale bonus does not stack so well with other buffs, especially bard buffs make it a bit redundant, and while heroism is good haste outright eclipses any 3rd level buff spell in most cases. The main thing heroism got going is the duration though, which is very nice.Heroism is my favorite level 2-3 Buff (go bards)
+2 to hit, regardless of dex or str character and doesn't conflict with enhancement bonuses
+2 to saves (barbarians don't get full value of this, but still, +2 to 2 of their saves, unless they are superstitious, but they still get 2 of the 3 perks)
+2 to skills. I play in skill heavy games and it can really make a difference. Make a good check better make a poor check more viable.
And best of all...the duration. 10 min/level is so much better than 1 min/level.
Not sure if this is what you mean but bard inspire courage is no longer a morale bonus, so heroism stacks. It doesn't stack with inspire greatness or heroics though.
The trick with Heroism is getting a couple of pearls of power and a lesser rod of extend. At 12th level that's (12x20=240) minutes per casting, or 4 hours, and 3 castings a day for 12 hours a day. Pretty much an entire adventuring day. All for around 10,500 if you have the right crafting feats. +2 to hit (meh) and all saves and skills (yay!)? Yes, please!
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The trick with Heroism is getting a couple of pearls of power and a lesser rod of extend. At 12th level that's (12x20=240) minutes per casting, or 4 hours, and 3 castings a day for 12 hours a day. Pretty much an entire adventuring day. All for around 10,500 if you have the right crafting feats. +2 to hit (meh) and all saves and skills (yay!)? Yes, please!
Alchemists got it even better. Alchemical allocation allows Heroism to be used as a second level extract and enchance/extent improves it's duration. Other than Good Hope, it's easily the best buff to use that combo for.
Not sure if this is what you mean but bard inspire courage is no longer a morale bonus, so heroism stacks.The save part of Inspire Courage is a morale bonus, the attack / damage part is a competance bonus.
But the bonus from Inspire Courage is only against Fear effects, and thus Heroism is superior anyway.
Oh, I agree, Haste is amazing. When the bard ding's 4th he should take heroism and when he hits 7th he should take Haste.
While it doesn't stack with everything, it gives enough and has the duration (which can be made ridiculous as others have pointed out) that if someone throws another morale bonus on, odds are you're still getting SOMETHING out of your heroism.
And since you aren't casting heroism in combat, given its duration, it doesn't waste actions...so you can spend your first round casting Haste and then round 2 you get to the stabbing.
Like anything, some buffs work better with some parties than others.
And on the Inspire Courage thing, it's a specific bonus to saves rather than a blanket +2 and the damage/attack portion stack. So as you level, Heroism gives a nice +2 and I run Inspire Courage for additional hit/damage. And if someone gets slammed with a fear save, they get a small increase over their Heroism bonus. So it's hardly a loss.