Programming Bard's page

I like incapacitation, I certainly like it a lot more than legendary resistance bc of the degrees of success. A boss is a boss, it's something to be interfaced with, not trivialized. I, the dm, am playing the game too and would really like the big bad I spent an hour or two making a final encounter for not get paralyzed like a chump for rolling a 1. There could be better solutions, but the spirit of the rule is something I back fully. The suggestion for changing incapacitation to just being higher lvl enemies not crit failing sounds good to me

Legendary Resistances is a much worse 'solution' to this issue, one that causes more problems than it solves, but that doesn't mean incapacitation is good enough of solution either (or that it isn't clunky)

As for big bad boss encounters... I am mostly a forever GM, and have been so for nearly 16 years now; I don't understand why some GMs feel bad when their one-shot or otherwise solve their boss encounter in a single turn, I have fun and enjoy the game when my players get to do so, I lobe to let them shine in those moments and while I hide it from them and even feign a bit of pain to enhance their accomplishment, I internally celebrate with them. But even if you don't enjoy these momments like that, you are not forced to making all your big bad boss encounters single-creature encounters and even then you are not forced to make your single creature encounters devoid of any other obstacles, challenges, enviromental hazards, or other complications instead of spending two hour to stat-up a single big bad boss.

If your final encounter is just one big bad guy with a super powerful statblock, it is going to be a boring encounter regardless of whether it is paralyzed or one-shoted on turn 1, or whether it takes 10 turns of playing the hp-race game, at least for me (either as a gm or as a player)

I also fail to see how is that any different from one-turning the big bad guy via critical hits (other than the fact, that you are more likely to crit than the big bad boss is to roll a 1, and that the big bad can save each turn to end the paralysis but it can't save each turn to come back to life)

The issue with save or die spells is that no one else is playing the same game. In a damage race, unless things have gotten horribly wrong, everyone has contributed something, and evenif you dont one shot you've still contributedto the next person's attempt. With save or die, one, maybe two people did a thing, and it's very binary if you fail (and wasted your turn) or succeed (and wasted everyone else's).

At least with incap,now these spells functions best in tense combat with multiple enemies, where you can gamble on taking out large chunks but not the entire encounter.

That is a fairly one-sided way of looking at both playstyles and stating that one has a problem while the other doesn't. I could spin the argument and say that dealing damage doesn't contribute to debuffing or controlling effects, and it would be as true as your argument (if not more so, because a lot of debuffing, debilitating or SoS effects do help damage dealers deal damage, but dealing damage never helps them back); either way you see it, I don't think the solution is to nerf either style into near uselessness, instead interwine them in such a way that both feed and benefit from each other organically.

I am not suggesting we revert them back to their height of power they had in 1e, but there is a lot of middle ground between what they became in 2e and what they were there;

Plus, 2e being a system with such an elegantly designed degree of success resolution mechanic, that also puts a lot of emphasis on team work, it has a lot of design space available they could have explored to achieve a result that does not neuter them this much and isn't as cumbersome, inorganic and counterintuitive as I find incapacitation to be.

The kind of effects given the incapacitation trait don't lead to fun or interesting gameplay and I appreciate how much the trait nerfs them

What is fun or interesting is subjective; I for example, find solving encounters and defeating most boss encounters via smacking or blasting them until their hp drops to dead - unless i am doing so in an unconventional way (improvised weapons etc...) - to be the far more dull, boring and uninteresting type of gameplay to me. Yet, I have nothing against this style of play, nor do I think it should be nerfed into a non-option.

I also think that this kind of statement usually carries a double-standard connotation (I am not saying that is the case here), because usually the same people that complain about this, praise powerful critical or otherwise high damaging attack sequences that can either end or trivialize an encounter in one turn when they happen.

Programming Bard wrote:

It seems like they are buffing classes that were already up there and didn't need a buff, and nerfing some of the weaker classes that needed some help.

Other than the changes made to the Witch, my opinion is pretty negative thus far, and my overall trust in the designers, paizo and PF2e has dropped a bit from the unsurpassable peak I used to hold them at.

New poster with only two inflammatory posts ?

Is this your first time on these boards or did we know you previously under another name ?

Not that it should matter, but this is my first time in these boards, but I have been active in several pf2 discord channels and the pf2 reddit for quite some time.

I don't think my post on this thread is inflammatory at all, and it would take a lot to interpret it as such, unless disliking most of the changes in is inflammatory.

All I said above was that before the remaster previews I held paizo, the designers and pf2e at the top unrivaled, and after the previews that we have seen thus far, my confidence and trust in them took a hit and as a result they no longer are.

Not that big of a hit really, but enough so that they are no longer the unrivaled number 1 on my list.

It seems like they are buffing classes that were already up there and didn't need a buff, and nerfing some of the weaker classes that needed some help.

Other than the changes made to the Witch, my opinion is pretty negative thus far, and my overall trust in the designers, paizo and PF2e has dropped a bit from the unsurpassable peak I used to hold them at.

I didn't know PF2e had a Wizard class.

Do you mean Arcane Sorcerer?