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If 1 point is a big deal then man let me tell you about the school of the boundry. there you will learn of a focus spell to increase your summons checks and DCs by +1!
Sign up today and we will even throw in a free tote bag!
Community & Social Media Specialist
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If 1 point is a big deal then man let me tell you about the school of the boundry. there you will learn of a focus spell to increase your summons checks and DCs by +1!
Sign up today and we will even throw in a free tote bag!
I realize this was said in jest, but I still want to see the tote bag. Heh.
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I realize this was said in jest, but I still want to see the tote bag. Heh.If 1 point is a big deal then man let me tell you about the school of the boundry. there you will learn of a focus spell to increase your summons checks and DCs by +1!
Sign up today and we will even throw in a free tote bag!
Lol I think Paizo has an opportunity for a new product line.
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Not gonna lie, I'd totally spring for the tote bag that doubles up as a spacious pouch, especially if it were to come with a summoned crawling hand plushie.
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Community & Social Media Specialist
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Not gonna lie, I'd totally spring for the tote bag that doubles up as a spacious pouch, especially if it were to come with a summoned crawling hand plushie.
This is absolutely a plushie I could make. I'm putting it on my list.
Apparently in the new book rival academies there are no wizard feats, just a lot of spells and schools
I mean, we know it contains a class archetype that exclusively for the wizard, so to say it has no wizard feats is misleading.
But I don't find it that surprising that it doesn't include additional, more generic wizard feats. Adding more schools is already a "1 class only benefit" feature for a book to dive into, and one that is probably much more important to address, as it is where I think most of the remaster wizard frustration is coming from. The remaster did add a number of new feats for the wizard and many of those are very good.
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Apparently in the new book rival academies there are no wizard feats, just a lot of spells and schoolsI mean, we know it contains a class archetype that exclusively for the wizard, so to say it has no wizard feats is misleading.
But I don't find it that surprising that it doesn't include additional, more generic wizard feats. Adding more schools is already a "1 class only benefit" feature for a book to dive into, and one that is probably much more important to address, as it is where I think most of the remaster wizard frustration is coming from. The remaster did add a number of new feats for the wizard and many of those are very good.
I know you personally don’t agree, but I cannot express enough how anaemic the Wizard is.
New schools were NEEDED as a bare minimum because the remaster took more schools and focus spells than it gave back. Resulting in a net loss of options. The wizard still had the least class feats of any core class.
I’ve heard there is only actually 3 new schools as well, but I’ll have to wait and see on that one.
If there is some good curriculum design work in the new curriculums, that would be a step in the right direction.
I don't expect a new wizard until they do an Unchained type of book for PF2. Then they might let a designer take the wizard where it needs to be for PF2.
Rival Academies is a Lost Omen book, not a rule book. I never expected it to have that much rules content to begin with. A class archetype, three new schools and additional spells is a lot of rules content for one class to receive in a LO book.
I too am hopeful the new schools are well put together. If they are, and it seems like players react positively to them, we are more likely to see more in the future.
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Wizards haven’t got any new Wizard-specific content in the last 6/7 books, be they rules or LO. (There was an AP with a new school however! )
I haven’t seen Rivals yet, but Wizards have long overdue some actual content.
A lack of actual class feats is just sad to see. It’s hard to think of a book more perfect to drop a handful of new feats for specific things.
Well, either the rune lord archetype completely replaces the school feature (which might be exactly what a lot of players are looking for), or it is more likely 10 new schools of magic, since the rune lords include 7 schools. I think Rival academies is going to add a lot of different kinds of wizards into Golarion (or back into Golarion in the case of the rune lords).
I like it when magic has many origins, lore backgrounds, sources.
Even within a tradition(like arcane) origin diversity makes things more interesting for me.
So I would look forward to seeing schools take on different backgrounds from all the different regions of Golarion and feeling different in terms of playstyle direction.
Runelord seems like its going to do this based on what ive heard about them so far because its going to be a class archtype(i think thats what i heard) that has its own unique choices of school benefits but it would be nice to se a variety of options that feel like they really are different approaches to arcane magic from different Golarion cultures.
Wizards haven’t got any new Wizard-specific content in the last 6/7 books, be they rules or LO. (There was an AP with a new school however! )
I haven’t seen Rivals yet, but Wizards have long overdue some actual content.
A lack of actual class feats is just sad to see. It’s hard to think of a book more perfect to drop a handful of new feats for specific things.
This is not, FWIW, unusual. Like the Kineticist hasn't received any new content since the book it was released in, the Inventor received new stuff in the Tian Xia Character guide and nowhere else, etc. Like it's not like we're getting new stuff for Bards, Druids, and Clerics with regularity either.
Wizards haven’t got any new Wizard-specific content in the last 6/7 books, be they rules or LO. (There was an AP with a new school however! )
I haven’t seen Rivals yet, but Wizards have long overdue some actual content.
A lack of actual class feats is just sad to see. It’s hard to think of a book more perfect to drop a handful of new feats for specific things.
If not the wizard school book....then yea, that's probably it for expecting new wizard feats. O well, runelord class archetype feats might change things up enough to be an a engaging wizard style of play. Beyond that it's probably not worth putting to much thought into wizard until 3e.
On the bright side, the dev commentary about the in house technomancer testing is really cool; it sounds like it'll have class features for augmenting spells through spell hacks and their spell cache. It might not have the studious schtick desired, but as far as engaging features it might make for a good wizard substitute once the core rulebook drops this summer. I have faith if only bc of the remastered oracle (having 4 slots AND class features): I don't think we'll ever have another "spell slots: the class" to worry about
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Wizards haven’t got any new Wizard-specific content in the last 6/7 books, be they rules or LO. (There was an AP with a new school however! )
I haven’t seen Rivals yet, but Wizards have long overdue some actual content.
A lack of actual class feats is just sad to see. It’s hard to think of a book more perfect to drop a handful of new feats for specific things.
With Monks in SoM, Barbarians in RoE, Druids in Dark Archive, Barbarians again in WoI
It's pretty clear imo that the next batch of wizard feats goes in battlecry.
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Wizards haven’t got any new Wizard-specific content in the last 6/7 books, be they rules or LO. (There was an AP with a new school however! )
I haven’t seen Rivals yet, but Wizards have long overdue some actual content.
A lack of actual class feats is just sad to see. It’s hard to think of a book more perfect to drop a handful of new feats for specific things.
With Monks in SoM, Barbarians in RoE, Druids in Dark Archive, Barbarians again in WoI
It's pretty clear imo that the next batch of wizard feats goes in battlecry.
Or the impossible book seems like a place where a lot of new magic class stuff would be located.
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We should start a pool.
Money goes to a charity to aid in childrens literacy.
I'll pledge 250USD that we get to 12 books, both Rules & Lost Omens, after Player Core 1, before Wizards get another new class feat printed.
Come on Paizo! Take my money, prove me wrong!
With Monks in SoM, Barbarians in RoE, Druids in Dark Archive, Barbarians again in WoI It's pretty clear imo that the next batch of wizard feats goes in battlecry.Absolutely! And a Wizard-General class archetype!
But will it be a modern wizard-general archetype?
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We should start a pool.
Money goes to a charity to aid in childrens literacy.
I'll pledge 250USD that we get to 12 books, both Rules & Lost Omens, after Player Core 1, before Wizards get another new class feat printed.
Come on Paizo! Take my money, prove me wrong!
On a crazy note inspired by what you just wrote there, I would love to see a book where every class (feats, subclasses and all) up to the point is compiled in one book and another book where every ancestry is compiled.
I know we have the Archives to find stuff but for old timers like me that love books in hand, it is a complete mess sifting through books to find stuff, especially with the various heritages being in the various Lost Omen books.
Those would be some hefty tomes!
I can see those being a nice end-of-life product for 2nd edition. A couple of big, heavy, books which compile various things in particular books. Maybe about 4/5 in total.
Wizards haven’t got any new Wizard-specific content in the last 6/7 books, be they rules or LO. (There was an AP with a new school however! )
I haven’t seen Rivals yet, but Wizards have long overdue some actual content.
A lack of actual class feats is just sad to see. It’s hard to think of a book more perfect to drop a handful of new feats for specific things.
With Monks in SoM, Barbarians in RoE, Druids in Dark Archive, Barbarians again in WoI
It's pretty clear imo that the next batch of wizard feats goes in battlecry.
If not for the Archives of Nethys, it would almost seem like Paizo was taking a page from Wizards of the Coast's Magic the Gathering marketing team: Randomizing everything into "loot boxes" and not telling you what is where. So, to get what you want, you have to spend big bucks on pretty much everything.
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I had set my expectations fairly low, but the disappointment is real :/
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They got two uncommon schools, that have the same problems as the previous ones, and a rare archetype, and that's it. The monk got more stuffSo... Rivals.
Surprisingly a lot of content for an LO book.
Somehow even less Wizard content than even I thought there would be.
That's an unfair characterization.
Wizards got two schools, but one of them (Magaambya) has 5 subschools and the other (Thassilonian Rune Magic) has 7 subschools. So there are effectively 12 new schools.
Monks got 2 pages. Wizards got 8 pages. (Although 4 of those are Runelord.)
It's fair to be disappointed with what Wizard got (I am) but they *did* get content.
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Part of it is the addictive vs the exclusive nature of the content.
The schools & archetypes exclude each other, you can only be doing one at a time and you can never mix and match.
Whereas class feats can be taken in a much more adaptive way. It expands the class to a greater degree in some ways, because they can expand all characters potentially equally. Whereas subclass options cannot do that.
I agree that some people are be overly unfair on the contents number. This is, by far, the most thought Paizo have given Wizards in years. The “technology” they are deploying here with the curriculum spells is a much needed elevation of the otherwise awful remaster change.
So it is good all round.
I just wish there was more of it on more fronts.
If there were feats that allowed picking up features of a second school how would they be structured?
Would one feat be sufficient cost to allow school slots to be used for the adopted schools spells?
Would it require a second feat to gain the adopted schools focus spell?
Would these feats leave universalist hanging out to dry or would universalist get something of their own?
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If there were feats that allowed picking up features of a second school how would they be structured?
Would one feat be sufficient cost to allow school slots to be used for the adopted schools spells?
Would it require a second feat to gain the adopted schools focus spell?
Would these feats leave universalist hanging out to dry or would universalist get something of their own?
I think I'd do it the other way around -- the first feat would pick the additional school and pick up the focus spell. The second feat would let you prepare that school's spells in your school slots, and I would probably limit it to spell slots lower than your highest rank spell.
And yeah, none of this would help Universalist -- there would need to be another feat or two limited to Universalists that would help them out.
I think it was unlikely to begin with that Rival Academies would fix the problems people find in the Wizard, given how that would require mechanical changes to the class rather than additional feats and schools. With that said, I really like what I've seen of the expansion so far, and it looks set to become one of my favorites. That the Wizard's number of schools has increased by a multiple is fantastic in my opinion, even if the class's problems remain.
If there were feats that allowed picking up features of a second school how would they be structured?
Would one feat be sufficient cost to allow school slots to be used for the adopted schools spells?
Would it require a second feat to gain the adopted schools focus spell?
Would these feats leave universalist hanging out to dry or would universalist get something of their own?
I'm with pH unbalanced on this one: the first feat should probably give you access to the initial school spell (which would finally allow Wizards to get three Focus Points from within their own class), and the second should let you prepare the second school's curriculum spells into your own spell slots. This, by itself, would leave the universalist hanging out to dry, so I think they'd need help of their own.
In this respect, while I still stand by my homebrew, one of the simplest improvements you could make could be to just make the Wizard a full four-slot caster by default, and apply Loreguard's suggestion of letting you substitute curriculum spells into your spell slots when you Refocus, as a weaker form of Spell Substitution. With Unified Magical Theory, rather than give extra uses of Drain Bonded Item (which does strictly nothing at levels 1-2), you could instead get the full Spell Substitution thesis for free.
If you want to get even spicier, and perhaps as an arcane thesis option, it could be interesting to be able to cast curriculum spells as spontaneous signature spells, without having to prepare them first: effectively, the bulk of your spells would be prepared through traditional Vancian means, but alongside that you'd have a repertoire of curriculum spells that you could always count on, and that you could cast using whichever prepared Wizard slots you have. This could address the grievances a lot of players have with Vancian spell preparation, and allow Wizards to excel at their chosen curriculum through flexibility. It would also have the advantage of making the curriculum feel like a benefit, rather than a limitation.
Don't both the bard and druid versions give you the focus spell second? It's also, on paper, more of a power boost, whereas in theory additional school spells are something that your GM can flat out give you (in practice, it's the missing flexibility for the 4th slot a lot of people are craving, but Paizo doesn't seem to value that a lot given how slapdash school spells are)
Bard muses don't have an initial focus spell the way some other class's subclasses do, just the initial feat (although the most popular muse, especially when factoring in multifarious muse, gives a focus spell via it's starting feat). The only difference between two bards who start with a different muse and pick up the other's muse at level 2 via multifarious muse is their extra 1st rank spell known (All but zoophonia give occult spells anyway, so that's basically nothing).
I would love to see the option for wizards to pick up a minor/double major/exchange via a feat chain, though.
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given how that would require mechanical changes to the class rather than additional feats and schools
I broadly agree with this. Feats and schools are problems for the Wizard, but they aren't The Problem with Wizards.
That said, a 1st level feat could do a lot for the Wizard I would say.
Prerequisite: Arcane Thesis
You gain the Additional Lore skill feat in Academia Lore.
You can Recall Knowledge on any creature you can observe using Academia Lore. When you Recall Knowledge in this way, you may only learn information on that creatures Weaknesses, Resistances, Immunities and Saves.
Simple, effective and flavourful. Also plugs the missing skill I guess.
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Part of it is the addictive vs the exclusive nature of the content.
The schools & archetypes exclude each other, you can only be doing one at a time and you can never mix and match.
Whereas class feats can be taken in a much more adaptive way. It expands the class to a greater degree in some ways, because they can expand all characters potentially equally. Whereas subclass options cannot do that.
I agree that some people are be overly unfair on the contents number. This is, by far, the most thought Paizo have given Wizards in years. The “technology” they are deploying here with the curriculum spells is a much needed elevation of the otherwise awful remaster change.
So it is good all round.
I just wish there was more of it on more fronts.
Also yeah +1 to this. More feats are always great preceisely because each feat adds more options to the class, which grow exponentially. Not that I don't want archtypes and schools, but if i had to choose...
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Is there a breakdown anywhere? I'm curious about runelord post OGL.So... Rivals.
Surprisingly a lot of content for an LO book.
Somehow even less Wizard content than even I thought there would be.
Overall Runelord hasn't changed a lot -- *except* that the Sin Schools have changed, and have all new Focus spells. I don't have the eye for detail to really give a breakdown there, except that Pride (the Sin I have an existing Runelord for) seems to still have all the spells that I cared about at the the levels I expect to play, so I have no complaints.
The big thing is that you are essentially locked into Staff as your thesis (your thesis is technically "Runelord" but you get the ability to use your Polearm as a free staff with your school spells in it, and eventually to merge an existing staff into your polearm to combine them). They also really foreground the Polearm in other ways -- you don't *need* to use it, but if you design a Runelord that *can* use their polearm semi-effectively you will be rewarded for it.
They cover your opposed schools with thematic Anathema -- if you break that Anathema, it severely disrupts your spellcasting (must make a DC15 Flat check to cast a spell) until you atone.
I said up above that Runelord was 4 pages -- really Runelord itself is 1 page and the detailed breakdowns of the seven sin schools and their new spells and focus spells are 3 pages.
Runelord does look like a pretty cool midrange wizard from the skimming a did.
Did the Magaambya sub schools get unique focus spells as well?
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Did the Magaambya sub schools get unique focus spells as well?
No.
Basically the base Magaambya school gives you your focus spells and one of your school spells per level, and the branch gives you the second school spell per level.
This differs from Thasillonian Rune Magic which gives you your advanced Focus spell and one school spell per level, with the individual Sins giving you your basic Focus spell and *two* school spells per level.
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Runelord does look like a pretty cool midrange wizard from the skimming a did.
I think the new Runelord is actually the best Paizo have put out for them this edition. It does a lot of good things while still being tied to the curriculum system.
Having a mini Staff Nexus baked in with a mini spell substitution alone makes it head and shoulders above the base Wizard.
But, more importantly, it has focus spells I want to cast every combat. Shame they didn’t keep the point expansion.
Runelord does look like a pretty cool midrange wizard from the skimming a did.I think the new Runelord is actually the best Paizo have put out for them this edition. It does a lot of good things while still being tied to the curriculum system.
Having a mini Staff Nexus baked in with a mini spell substitution alone makes it head and shoulders above the base Wizard.
But, more importantly, it has focus spells I want to cast every combat. Shame they didn’t keep the point expansion.
Interesting. I like the Runelord idea.
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Since the new book doesn't give much to the wizard apart from an archetype - that namely competes with other archetypes - I'm still trying to find a way to "fix" the wizard.
Most people here agree that one of the most "wizardy" thing you have in PF2e is the spell substitution thesis, and that it should be given to all wizards (and replaced by something else to choose).
So I was wondering if, instead of this "you take 10 minutes to swap a spell" thing, we could change it to a focus spell that all wizards would get. Something like this:
Thy knowledge shalt not falter
Focus 1
1 action
Prerequisite: You must have your spellbook in your handYou turn the pages of your grimoire and find the exact spell you need for the situation that arose. You can swap one of your spells for any spell of the same level in your spellbook, but you must cast it this round or lose it.
It gives the thesis a use inside combat, where all those "silver bullet" spells could shine. Like the wizard flavor text says, this would allow you to cast revealing light if someone is invisible or fly if you need it, or an extra fireball if need be - at the cost of a focus point and an action.
Outside of combat, it doesn't change much from the thesis - you can swap quicker, but you need to refocus later, so it's a small buff (but you're caught with your pants down if someone attacks during your refocus).
I don't think it's particularly powerful since this can already be achieved with scrolls for the most part, but it would at least give back the wizard his identity as a problem solver.