Pariah Dog's page

Ok. Last post got eaten in a PC crash so lets try again.

First let me say that I love the concept of a knife thrower, hell I'm playing on in a 3.5 campaign currently. He has some Houseruled gear (remade an item that generates +1 javelins as a free action to make daggers) and a bit of 3.5 cheese tactics stuff (rogue with a ring of blinking) and 1 item from the pathfinder armory (the instant wrist sheath, weapon as an immediate action)

Skimming there SRD (no APG here) there seems to be a belt slot item that implies it would do what hes talking about. However as a physical fighter type you are giving up your belt slot to pretend to keep up with the proper weapon users. (Which actually puts you behind the monk now that brass knuckles exist)

Skip the archer AFC. It specifies bows. Its also pretty bad but that is practically a post in and of itself. Also rogue is a trap. Yes the sneaky SOB with the throwing knives is cool (I love the concept) but with the loss of blinking and grease cheese there is no cheap and reliable way to get a lasting sneak attack against any target (surprise round + first round IF you win init)

Secondly, there is the problem with throwing weapons, you're double statting for hit and damage (dex to hit STR for damage) and limited to mithril chain shirt for armor if you take the archery fighter type. Range on most throwing weapons for lack of a better word, SUCKS. 10ft, 20 tops. So you're easily in move and murder range of anyone you're attacking. In fact you may be in a large creatures reach if you have a 10ft weapon (or take penalties to hit).

Then theres the feats. You'll want the standard archery fare point blank, precise, and rapid. You'll also need quick draw and likely far shot. So you're two more feats in the hole behind the guy with the bow. Plus he can get a belt of physical stats AND he can double dip for magical effects (ammo + bow). Plus hes using a safe distance back. You're within charging or even 5ft step range away from having a very bad day. On the plus side your throwing weapons (skip darts) do let you threaten so the actual melee guys can get flanking before your untimely death.

I can't believe no one mentioned this probably because its the most underused magical item but a Merciful weapon (I have a character in a game with qualms about killing that packs one) converts all damage to subdual and tacks on an extra D6.

Ohhhhhh so close. You cannot charge or run while burrowing.

Well I may not know exactly where it is but I do see where the earth is being displaced by the creature gives a pretty good idea where it is on a 2 dimensional scale. I may not know how deep it is but I know its there. Start running or pop a fly or a levitate scroll. also it doesn't know where I am until its 60 feet away anyways.

Well its a good thing I'm not using common I'm using MAGIC. Charming something in a language, isn't magic its diplomacy.

Dire Mongoose wrote:

ciretose wrote:

Displacement is also 3rd Level is rounds per level, so not lasting long there even if I don't make the will save to disbelieve the illusion. So those would be your two third level spells at 5th level.

Uh... since when do you get a save to disbelieve displacement?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/displacement

You are right, my mistake. Missed the harmless part. However you would get a save after a miss.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Illusion

Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief)

Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.

A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline.

A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss. A character faced with proof that an illusion isn't real needs no saving throw. If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus.

What are you smoking and where can I get some?

As much as you love to quote the SRD

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/rainbow-pattern

CONCENTRATION + rounds per level. Once I stop maintaining the spell then it becomes rounds per level.

Ok forums ate my last post and I'm not going to retype it all so heres the short version:

Charm. Monster has been stopped from eating me. Done.

Burrowing: Burrowing is not earthglide. A creature that size is going to displace a lot of earth. Burrowing is also not teleportation.

Fear: Please do not insult my intelligence by assuming I'm traveling with a pack of suicidal lemmings that instantly block any route to hitting a creature with a cone spell.

Rainbow pattern: Standard action. Maintain spell. Move action, 30ft. Spell also lasts rounds per level after concentration. Fascinate worm. Maintain spell, walk away.

Charm person... 25 +5 per level range... you want to be that close? sounds like putting alot of eggs in one basket to me. He saves, you are a body bag, doesnt really sound amazingly better than the fighter.

Fear also 30ft

as for hold monster that might be your best bet, but it would be only available to you at 11th level and is your highest level spell and with the creature only being a CR12 (I have found CR+2,3 is about right for my party) not unreasonable to assume you can hold him for one round (and he continues to get saves to stop this effect which as you pointed out requires you to drop him in some other way next round) and if there is two? forget about it hop into the body bag to make it easier (Two is usually the standard for CR if I remember correctly in the book.

As for rainbow pattern it is an illusion that is mind affecting (guess you were counting on no undead today or things with SR) and it also only fascinates them (which can be ended very easily by usion that is mind affecting (guess you were counting on no undead today or things with SR) and it also only fascinates them (which can be ended very easily by violent actions) with concentration or your level.

The latter are higher level and more viable but still have their weaknesses and at 7th to 11th level the fighter can dish some devastating damage and effects.

As for the fighter not having a light slashing or piercing weapon? ryou dont think a fighter is going to have atleast one on his person or in his boot? he is a fighter. that isnt metagaming thats not being an idiot.

EDIT: excuse me 9th for the wizard spell hold monster. But you would only get 1 per day (2 if you have 20 int) which is the best you got that day.

Also this is all provided the PW is above ground, which is not likely. Monsters are not to be played like idiots either.

Charm Monster is a 45 foot reach. if that fails run away 30 feet. I'm out of charge distance by that point.

Fear is riskier yes but the odds are still in my favor. By level 9 You'd easily expect to have at least 22 in your main stat (18 start, 2 from level ups and a +2 item) so thats a DC 20 vs a +4 will save. 70% odds of success.

Hold monster you can get about 2-3 rounds before it can roll a 16 or higher during which your big dumb melee can do battle with the creature without becoming worm food (pun intended)

Rainbow pattern I just lead the creature away with the pattern then go on my merry little way. As for the SR/undead bit. That all depends on the area where you are adventuring today. But that was a desperate little grasp at men made of straw anyways.

Edit: Sorry accidentally diced off the whole quote trying to remove all the previous stuff.

As for the if theres 2. If theres 2 you're screwed anyways. Especially since purple worms are solitary.

As for the CR+2-3 thats a whole different issue.

True they are burrowing creatures so if they do get an ambush its likely going to be spent biting and swallowing (more or less killing) one person.

As for the fighter with the light slashing/piercing weapon, true. Was thinking grapple was similar in restrictions to 3.5 grapple where you know you're not free to murder the hell out of the idiot as he holds you hand with full attacks.. And yeah any adventurer without major brain damage has at least 1 dagger on them somewhere, they're cheap, work well as simple tool etc.

As for the claim that damage is a mook role, damage ends more combats than anything else. Also, try casting [b]black tentacles[/i] on a purple worm. A lot of the spells cited might end one combat and be completely meaningless in another.

Ok since you bring up the example of a purple worm. Yes Black Tentacles is not going to work on him. However any non HD dependent will save will (+4 will save) so you're looking around charm/hold monster, fear, rainbow pattern.

Now compare this to the fighter's options.

Worm has 15 foot reach meaning it is getting an AoO on your trek into melee reach. Or hell lets be generous and not give it one with its abysmal initiative and let you charge it first. Can you do 200 damage before it goes?

Bites you with its +25 to hit for an average of 30 damage. Swallows you whole (unless have some serious CMD vs the grapple check) for another average of 36 a round (including the first). Hope you have a light slashing or piercing weapon

Dragonsong wrote:

LilithsThrall wrote:

One thing I would -not- want is for the Monk to be turned into just another DPSer like the Fighter.

I don't care whether the Monk can do as much DPS as the Fighter. That's not his job.

This is the job of the monk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXIGP6_fNZk&feature=related

The focus is on fast movement and combat manuevers, not high levels of DPS.

3.5/PF does not encourage that level of improvisation/openness in the fight. For big dumb melees it encourages them to stand there and wail on each other like rock'em sock'em robots.

Also as cool as that is, its really the monk (Jaa) whipping up on a bunch of mooks. Cool but not effective against a target of equal or greater level. Even the BBEG (who seems like a he has one or two levels in a non npc class, a few npc levels and the leadership feat) beats him down till he pulls a pro wrestling style Hulk Hogan comeback.

Mistah Green wrote:

Master Craftsman doesn't work the way it's supposed to

Please elaborate.

I'm not green but I will take a stab at this.

The feat gives you a +2 to your relative craft/profession check and craft magical arms and armor and craft wondrous item. However you still take the penalties for not having the proper spell (I believe EVERY magical item has some spell required) so that ups your DC by 5. You are 15% more likely (minimum) to fail at making an item of than a caster attempting to make it. Plus spell trigger items are out which is where some of the really good build your own items come from (may not apply if you can only make items straight out of the books)

Is your party consist of nothing but full casters? (For this purpose, bard is not a full caster)

Are you handing out magic items with a shovel?

If you answered no to either of these questions don't expect a game to go past level 5 unless you throwing nothing but humanoids with warrior levels at the party rather than level appropriate creatures.