PHGraves's page

I agree with both Forever Man and Fox_Reeveheart. The point system, as it stands, doesn't really work for me. Maybe it should cost 1 point (or 2 or 3 as one levels up to greater rages) to enter a rage, but that's it. No "maintenance cost" per round. The rage could last for a set number of rounds, something like equal to your barbarian level, possibly /2, or keep the old way (3+CON). But, as the Rage Points system stands, I'm not very excited about it.

One way of off-setting the "rage death" Forever Man talked about is having a spontaneous healing effect occur whenever a barbarian exits a rage. Not much, maybe d4 or d6 per 2 levels. This way, a barbarian could at least maybe survive his wild frenzy of death and destruction.

Being the party cleric in my normal group, I have killed many NPC barbarians in 3.X with the Harm/Calm Emotions combo. While it is highly exploitable, I can understand the thematic reasons for using this type of temporary HP ("lose last") than the "lose first" variety.

I had suggested in another thread the idea of removing the Con boost from Rage and simply allowing a raging barbarian to ignore the effects of zero or negative HP for a number of rounds equal to their barbarian level. While massive damage, vorpal weapon, or other Death Effect will still kill them outright, high-level barbarians can withstand insane amounts of damage with the aid of a party healer.

Some ideas (most stolen/modified from previous posters ruthlessly):

1)Smite Evil No major change. You can expend positive energy to gain an additional smite as a free action.

2)Channel Positive Energy Move to 2nd level. Paladins count as a Cleric of half their Paladin level.

3)Alignment and Deity Paladins are Lawful Good. They can be a follower of any LG, LN, or NG deity.

4)Spellcasting At 4th level, Paladins select one domain favored by their deity. They gain the benefits of the domain as if they were a Cleric three levels below their Paladin level. Charisma is the relevant attribute.

We all liked the Rage Powers, but thought they should be cleass abilities chosen at certain levels, like Rogue Talents at 10th. Instead of using a brand new mechanic keep rage the way it is but allow the Rage powers to be used either Con bonus/rage for the weaker ones or Con bonus/day for more powerful abilities.

My group was wondering why they didn't have "Barbarian Types" similar to the Sorcerer/Specialist Wizard/Domain abilities. I can see a tiered choice set, as per your suggestion, working a tad better, though.

I have a major problem with the fact that a front-line fighter has more per-combat bookkeeping than a spellcaster. This really needs to be fixed before release.

Not that this matters, as the signal-to-noise ratio on these forums are cranked all the way into "noise", but I feel the need to say this:

What in the Nine Hells does any of this have to do with Alpha 2?

There is already enough Alpha 2 re-post spam to drown out the few good nuggets of information. Can we wait for Alpha 3 before drowning out its few useful posts with this dreck?

Rant done. Go about your business.

Maybe this could be replaced with somekind of bypass DR with an attack. It could be set up with a 1 for 1 expenditure so for every 1 Rage Point spent, the Barbarian could bypass 1 point of DR. Or, if a variation for different types of DR would be more desirable, it could be something like 3 pts. to bypass DR/type or magic, 6 pts. to by pass DR/cold iron or silver, 9 pts. to bypass DR/adamantine and 12 pts. to bypass DR/Alignment. I do not know if the point expenditure should be commuilative (ie. spend 12 pts. and by pass DR/silver and good) or if both should be necessary. Probably inclusive, since it is for one attack. Also, make it so it is spent before attack roll is made.

To an extent, this is done cheaper via Powerful Blow. Sure, it's just for one attack, but nothing bypasses DR like more damage. A 10th level barbarian can essentially ignore DR 10/- with Powerful Blow.

Why not just have a 12RP ability (minimum 12th level) that adds the barbarian's level in damage to all attacks for a round? This gets rid of the nonsensical elemental damage and adds a bit more oomph as the levels climb.

* Bardic knowledge is now +3 on Knowledge skills, rather than a separate roll

I'm wondering if this was scalable (i.e. +1 every 3 Bard levels or some such). +3 in the late game seems rather small.

Regarding barbarian hit points and rage, I do think that the loss of hit points after a rage can be a bad thing. If you have +24 hit points from raging, and you drop into the negatives, when your rage ends, you're dead. Hopefully, your friends will help keep you alive, but I'd just as soon see the Rage Hit Points be temporary hit points (that are lost first) so the barbarian isn't in danger of dying the moment someone casts 'calm emotions' on him. For a class that is supposed to be 'tough', they really are pretty easy to kill. Even if this replaced the bonus to Constitution (which has other advantages), I think it would work better than the current system, so that is the only 'major change' I'd like to have considered.

The current mod my group is trying is to remove the Con bump and temporary HP from Rage.

Instead, a barbarian can ignore the effects of zero or negative HP for a number of rounds equal to their barbarian level. While this will allow a barbarian to function even below -10 for a short period, a failed Massive Damage save can still kill them outright.

PHGraves wrote:

Using this example, the party now has to wait 42rounds, over four minutes, while Lunch catches his breath.

This just seems to be penalizing...

In 3.5, the fatigue lasts until the end of the current encounter, which means that no matter how long the encounter may be, a barbarian will never recuperate.

I'm not sure what kind of encounters you were raging in, but combat encounters did not last over 45 rounds (3 rounds of combat + fatigue from example) at 10th level.

Also, Lunch spent 21 (out of 72 total) rage points in the encounter. While he spent rage like it was going out of style, he was far from 'out of ammo.'

If barbarians are supposed to be stingy with their rage points, why not remove the bookkeeping (which is more than the spellcasters') and simply grant them the rage bonus automatically in combat and make the rage powers all #/day?

Alpha 2, page 10

A barbarian can end her rage as a free action and is fatigued for a number of rounds equal to 2 times the number of rage points spent during the rage. A barbarian cannot enter a new rage while fatigued but can otherwise enter a rage multiple times during a single encounter or combat.

See, now this I have an issue with.

While the low-level barbarian (1-5) has relatively few rage points, they also have very little to spend them on (outside of the standard rage). Higher-level barbarians, however, have many more points to spend and the better the ability, the more points. Keep in mind as well, that you still have to spend the 1-2rp each round to continue the rage, regardless of whether you are using a rage ability.

Lunch, the 10th level dwarf barbarian, is fighting a stone giant while his cohorts are engaged elsewhere in battle. On the first round he rages, charges, and using Power Attack and Powerful Blow with his greataxe deals a quite large chunk of damage to his foe (1d12+10+17(Str20)). [RP spent: 7/7 total]

On its round, the stone giant sunders Lunch's greataxe.
Truly annoyed, Lunch uses Animal Fury and latches onto the stone giant (1d6+5). Since he hit, Lunch also fires off Strength Surge to make sure he wins the Grapple (go go Improved Grapple). [RP spent: 10/17 total]
Lunch also uses Strength Surge in the stone giant's round to keep the grapple. [RP spent: 3/20 total]
On his third round, Lunch can get some assistance from the party's rogue and so he manages to Pin the stone giant. The rogue's full attack (Two-Weapon Fighting, magic weapons, plus Sneak Attack) manages to put down the giant. [RP spent: 1/21 total]

Using this example, the party now has to wait 42rounds, over four minutes, while Lunch catches his breath.

This just seems to be penalizing the higher-level barbarians.

The Feint rules read:

"If successful, the next melee attack you make against the target
does not allow him to use his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).
This attack must be made on or before your next turn."

If your opponent moves away from you (is no longer adjacent) and you move up and hit him on or before your next turn, do you still deny your target his/her Dex bonus to AC?

On a similar note, why not just allow the Feint check to be made in conjunction with an attack so that it makes sense. Otherwise, you have foes running away every time you feint them, and that's not a feint, that's intimidation...lol.

My players were surprized that the Feint rules did not use some form of the CMB.

Due to work/family issues, tonight's game was cut short after character creation.

Races
Everyone liked the new changes to races, but only two went outside their comfort-zones.
One Half-Elf, one Half-Orc, and three Humans rounded out the party.

Classes & Skills
As we started as 1st level characters, the two Fighters (both Human) and Rogue (Half-Elf) were pretty basic. Both the Wizard (Human, Generalist) and Cleric (Half-Orc, of Gurum) liked the new take on Domains and Schools.
An odd question cropped up because of the Cleric's -2 Int modifier:
Are characters always trained in at least one skill (akin to the minimum of 4 skill points in 3.5), or can they start with none?

Hit Points
After a brief discussion and generating everyone's HP by each method for comparison, it was decided that Racial HP was the way to go. There was, however, one dissenting voice for Flat HP. A comment was made that the other methods should be added as "optional."

Feats
The Wizard was sad that there was only one new arcane-themed feat he could take at 1st level while everyone else got a few (until I pointed out the usefulness of Deadly Aim and ranged touch spells).
Both Fighters like the new Power Attack, but they are split over the usefulness of the new Cleave (pg 36). It was requested that the new Cleave should be re-worded to allow for "Charging Cleave" attacks.

Spells
I did notice that both spell-casters took Detect Magic and Read Magic as two of their 3 starting 0-level spells. Light and Acid Splash rounded out the orisions and cantrips respectively.

I have been talking with my group about the HP options (they are making characters tonight). So far, everyone likes the Racial HP option the best. I would have to rank them:

Racial
Standard
Flat
Double
Con

Then again, this may change after our playtest....