Bit of thread necromancy here, but I didn't want to start a new one for this.
I found an EXISTING solution, already published by Paizo.
The older, pre-Pathfinder Core softcover books (64 pages) like the Pathfinder Chronicles Gazetteer and the like, like these;
Or, really any of the stuff listed here I think:
I got the first two I listed up above, and they have lots of fluff, but little crunch to add to the game. Works great with the Beginner Box, and also fit in it. At least the two I have do, with room for maybe one more.
So, there is an option, already made, if you want to stick to a Beginner Box game but still have a few more options.
I've done it. You just have to focus on using more minions and critters with powers that don't 'move' things, and let your players know that powers that focus on moving will be not as useful. Keep it to one non-minion enemy per fight and it's pretty doable.
Well, that is a valid take, but I take a different view. From the class description in the PRD--
I see Paladins as less about pure good, as the good that comes out of order and following the laws set out in their 'holy scriptures.'
However, you could just as easy make the case for any of the Good alignments as well in your games. I just think that having to use the Lawful axis allows for the anti-paladin concept and LN is pretty much the Judge archetype.
I let the Barbarian not-Lawful thing stand, because it still leaves a lot of options for them to be. (Neutral Good, Chaotic Good, Neutral Evil, and so on).
For any games I ran with alignments, I just said that Paladins had to be LAWFUL, but the rest was up to them and their god(s). So, Pallys had to be LG, LN, or LE.
So, it seems we have two factors--
1) Many folks, like me, seem to like the rules lite approach of the BB.
2) Paizo has a vested money interest in getting people into adventure paths because that pays the bills (and frankly, that makes more sense than the WotC model of system bloat to try and pay the bills).
So, perhaps a middle road idea. A 'Beginner Box 2' (or as I'd call it for the old school folks, the "Expert Box") and then a series of Adventure Paths for BB/EB that, having the same rules as BB/EB (which means, the same as CRB leaving out some stuff), would just as easily adapt to the full Pathfinder rules (and by adapt, I mean 'pretty much run as written'). I could see the main setting book (Inner Sea Guide) being useful to pretty much both. I've briefly looked through it (still debating on buy) and it seems not really crunch heavy except for NPCs.
Does that sound like a reasonable idea and compromise between the two desires? Anyone else think that sounds reasonable?
I'll be honest. I love the BB. I'd run that for my 'fantasy fix' game. But I have the CRB and I have the same issues with that that I did v3.5. I'll play if offered, but I'm not running that, and not buying adventure paths for it. I had my fill of running that intensive a prep game 5 years ago.
I would seriously consider Adventure Paths for a BB/EB line. And I would buy an EB in a heartbeat.
Indeed. I could be counted as one of those 'vetran' players. I've been playing since I was 12 (started with the real Red Box, not that aborted abomination of a poor copy from last year), and I'm 35 now. That's 23 years. People of all ages like to play my games. I have had a few cases of some people paying OTHER people to not play so they can have the open slot.
Savage Worlds and BRP are two of my personal top 3 games. nWoD is the third. Shadowrun and Battletch fight for 4th place because they both pull at my nostalgic heartstrings. Pathfinder and 4th Ed fight for 5th place, again because they both relate to nostalgia.
But my top 3 are games that are easy to learn, teach, prep, and play quick. Why? Because at my age I am not putting more time into studying a game book than I am for finishing my Bachelor degree.
I gotta agree there. Currently, Savage Worlds is the top of my top 3 games.
My interest in Pathfinder these days comes from the Beginner Box and the fact that I keep getting invited to play, and as I run 98% of the games I'm involved in, getting to play would be nice.
I got the Beginner Box a few weeks back. I like it.
Then I got the Pathfinder Core book because I wanted to compare, and I keep getting invited to actually play in a game of it.
While Pathfinder is pretty much v3.5 D&D with all the house-rules I used already in it and a few new features, it is still v3.5 in essence, which still means it has all the issues I had with v3.5.
Mostly related to complexity and game-prep time issues. For fairness and full disclosure, I don't even do a lot of 4e anymore because now it has too many books and is more complex than I bought into it for. My current games of choice are Savage Worlds (Necessary Evil, Slipstream, and Weited War II), BRP, and nWoD: Mage.
But I really do like the Beginner Box. It's what Essentials could have been if they had not screwed up the marketing and product packaging (in short, they really should have had one big Player Book for Essentials instead of 2), and actually made them a good introduction to the game.
What I'm asking, or suggesting, is that maybe the 'Beginner' line should continue. Maybe offer a second beginner book with levels 6-20 of the 4 in the box. Another book with Beginner style versions of the other classes and races, levels 1-20. And a Beginner Bestiary. All with the pared down lists of feats, spells, and the like, and the fewer combat options (but point out the golden rule, or that you can adapt rules as desired from the Core Rulebook).
Or, same concept, but keep the Beginner lines levels 1-5 only. Or maybe levels 1-10.
I'd just like to see more like this. I think that the Beginner Box is the optimal level of complexity for the v3.5 rules. Enough options to do most character ideas, but not so many that a guy with limited time to prep and run could miss vital things that could break a game.
Just my two cents.
All I gotta say is I love DMing 4e a lot. It's easier, more intuitive, and takes a lot less of my time to prepare for than v3.5 did (with a family, time is important).
I will admit that why I enjoy the game so much might be that I play a lot of different kinds of games, and so the change to the 4e system is a lot less stark for me.
I actually have DM points on my RPGA membership for the first time in 3 years.
Chef's Slaad wrote:
Hadn't ordered yet.
I may order from Paizo, if I can afford it. Budget is tight right now, but I want something big and meaty to take with me to read before I ship off to basic training.
Lisa Stevens wrote:
Well Tell Amazon, they still insist it doesn't come out till next month.
Indeed! Very well said! And that's why I want a 4E Mystara.
Heck, Dragon (pre-Paizo) helped shape the world, maybe after the changes to the GSL, Paizo can get the go ahead for the 4E Mystara.