Nimoot's page

I will look into this... Thanks! :-) A huge negative from all this crazy rules turned into a possible positive :-).

Wow.... that's an interesting concept for sure... And people trust what you're rolling is real and not rigged then?

What's a Play by Post?

Yeah, I've told him that "We can't talk about Pathfinder stuff anymore, we fight too much with your "new rules"".

Thank you everyone who's basically said him/his group is nuts... Now I just need to find a local group who I can play with XD.... Introvert for the win? >_<,

It's difficult for me to meet a group. The pathfinder group in Seattle that's on meetup actually disbanded because the DM quit XD...

Yeah... I've told the GM I don't want to be in his next campaign (which is the one I'd be playing in Potentially...) if he's going to be this nit picky... He's forcing all players to multi-class, which ruins most of what I'd want to do with my characters and their builds... :-\

And no local groups have any room for a Magus or a Psion (Dreamscarred Press book)

In this case I think "rules-lawyer" means "being stubborn", and has no correlation to actually knowing what they are talking about. I have some free time. Invite him to the boards or at least ask him to provide a rules quote.

So he's got two people from Wizards of the Coast that play in his group, and almost everyone there out of the 8 people are like "The messageboards can't be taken seriously, we have to call up a developer to resolve rule arguments" ... :-\

Ah, ^ that'd do it! Thanks!

This person is VERY good at being a rule-lawyer, and standing their ground about this kind of stuff.... Know anything I could 'bring to the table' that'd trump him? :-\

I think I'll have a rough time telling him "you only get sneak attack dice on One of the rays and before you roll to see if it hits"

I've been told recently that you can't be a Magus/Rogue and do your Spell Combat ability and add any of your sneak attack dice to any of the hits because it's a "special ability" and that means you can't add those dice to it?

Anyone able to verify/debunk this? Thanks.

A friend has said you can use Scorching Ray and Sneak attack on a Rogue/Sorcerer, so you'd be able to use Scorching Ray, the target is denied their Dex bonus, so you add your precision dice to the attack?

That just sounds broken... Thoughts?

For tips and tricks on playing a Tactician, we recommend this guide: Tactician Guide

Apparently this guide is OP lol....

According to my 'friend' who actually wanted to play it.

Anyone have any websites or ways to find local Pathfinder groups to connect with to play since the one I'm trying to join isn't working out >_<.

I was meaning if the whole party is in the Vitalist Collective and the Tactician Collective, could abilities be chained or anything special.

No automatically belong to 2 collectives, that'd break stuff lol.

Nimroot, I'm playing one right now. Admittedly, it's a brand new game, but I've got it planned out to 20th (and 10 mythic tiers).

I call my healers that in D&D/MMO's... hahah...

Where do I find mythic rules for psions?

Just got a wicked idea... Do the Tactician's and the Vitalist's collective link together so they could combo off each other if all of the same targets are in their respective collectives?

That was short lived haha :-D. The Tactician must not be played very often.

Not sure what you mean by a Tactician. Do you mean

* A particular archetype/prestige class called the Tactician?
* A PC who specializes in tactics and tactical play
* A PC who helps others improve their tactics and tactical play

TarkXT got it... the Psionic Class. A friend of mine wants to play one, but I don't know how useful it'd be and if he'd be better served playing a different character from the Ultimate Psionics book.

How would you build a Tactician?

I am curious how one would work in a party of say... 7 people, including yourself. I know probably different choices would be made with what tactics to choose and when to use them and such... Could just be a general idea behind how you'd play them.

Oh and try to only use stuff from the core books if you can, DM can be questionable about using 3rd party books that haven't been praised by Paizo/they sell it on their website.

(No traits either, he doesn't use them... already have a comment thread about that if you'd like to talk about it over there :-D)

^ He's apparently been DM'ing for 20 years... You'd think that could prepare him for anything players could throw at him. Two of the party members actually helped create 3.0/3.5 D&D as well... and they are the ones that just Bull Rush into a fight and expect to not die... XD

^ So because of that... I was looking at Life Leech, and hopefully adding one of the summons to the Collective ( I think that's valid? ) so I can siphon off the boss smashing someone to pieces to a minion... OR by some miraculous event I add the boss to the collective and he kills himself with his own hit...

Just pimp your PC for uselessness.

I know this kind of DM. The more useless you are, the more he will see you as a better roleplayer, and player in general.

As such, you will end up with random DM fiat "get of jail" tickets, and random specialized treasure.

Rumourmonger Rogue, with a 13 13 13 13 13 10 stat array.

If he decides he doesn't like the PC, just ask him to build you one. You can even ask if he wants to play it as well.

Bring beer. You are likely there to watch him play, and not yourself, so you might as well kick back a few brews.

Well the DM attempts to over-balance fights I think, since someone almost always is able to summon a crowd of creatures and thus make fights not entirely easy to balance well.

If I were that useless, the party would likely vote to kick me, each of the party is good at something, I would be good at nothing lol.

^ Yeah it'd be a 15 point buy system... I do have 7 Wis/Cha, but my next lowest score is Con at 12, Str is 13 so I can carry crap without being slowed, and then Int is 16 and Dex is 18... The DM hates Min/Max people... but if you have Ordinary Stats... you should just play a townsperson and not go on adventures... lol. There'd be nothing special about you.

Whelp, that's a bit of healing XD... Trying to figure out why you said Spherical mender 20 in vacuum", but that's the first time I've seen that healing ability.

Sadly the group I'd Want to use Vitalist with only gets to around lvl 15 or so before the DM ends the campaign because he can't keep it balanced. 7 people is a lot of people to balance encounters for. He keeps doing singular creature HUGE boss fight instead of a dozen or so smaller creatures because a Druid in the party is a Minion Master basically lol... so they have like 9 summons, hard to balance combat... or so he claims...

"Spherical mender 20 in vacuum heals 1200 hp divided as he pleases among four party members, with one standard action, up to ~20 times per day. That's ~23000 hp healed per day. Of course about half to third would be overheal, as most parties don't have such hp pools. Healing at half strength would be 600 hp per standard action, ~20000 hp per day. IMO high-level menders are not very fun to play (with), because you basically can't die from hp damage."

^ What's all that? It sounds awesome and I must know!

TY Nyaa, that's Very good reading... omg.

As for the "Define OP"... Anyone I've explained the whole tactic of full round attacks plus spell, which you could hit again for max BAB, plus Intensified Spell Shocking Grasp... you're a force to be reckoned with until level 10, unless the DM starts throwing creatures at you immune to lightning damage... in which case I would probably see that as the DM trying to counter how I'm playing lol.

It may not be OP... but this is my first time deeply researching a class and it's combo's... and so far, it feels OP... but then again I haven't gone and researched an OP Wizard build or some such, I guess I could and then play him all OP so the DM can "Ban Wizards for being OP!" which would be Dumb, but he might do it if I'm too ridiculous.

I've had a Love for Psionics... and it's true, ever since they came out, all my friends wouldn't allow me to play them because "They're broken" well I fully understood them, and I love the power point system (Spellcasters should at least get a version of this, even if they can't buff their spells with these points).

Well I'll try and send those 2 links to the DM to change his mind... because in all honesty... Vitalist is much more NORMAL than Magus is... Magus is OP even if played poorly... Or am I crazy?

Yeah I wanted to get the trait for Magus that lowered the caster level of a specific spell by 1 when you use a metamagic feat, so I'd get it for Shocking Grasp so I can Intensify it at lvl 1 in my spellbook instead of lvl 2.

I have a DM that won't allow traits at all because they can "break the game"... Is this something that'll ruin character customization, or is this not a huge deal?

Well they play with 7 people, so if someone quits, I jump in and I'd be the 7th... I Wanted to play a Psion, but everyone in the group thinks that a Psion VS anyone else gets beaten hands down... And I don't know of any way to convince them since if the DM says something, no one questions it.

I basically found out my DM doesn't do 3rd Party Content, so I've unfortunately scrapped the idea :-(...

So I just recently learned there were Psions in Pathfinder and had to look them up because I was such a fan of them in 3.0/3.5 D&D.

After some heavy reading, because I bought the Ultimate Psionics book to get fully versed in the stuff, I liked the utility of the Vitalist.

However, after learning how the group of 7 others in the Pathfinder group USUALLY play, I didn't want to be a Psion because then the GM might ban Psionics because no one has ever played them and would otherwise think the damage/mechanics I'm doing are broken. So I chose to go super utility with Vitalist.

Before I go and make a case of the class since they are not well informed on the Vitalist, I was curious if any of you have any tips for me about the class. I don't mean tell me all the Min/Max strats, because I'm playing him for fun, not to be the Best Healer Ever and all that.

I noted the Other Vitalist methods, and was intrigued by the Life Leech Vitalist Method, but after hearing how difficult it is to overcome Magic Resistance/Psionic Resistance with this particular GM if it would suit the party better if I just went Mender Vitalist because then I'm dealing with Willing participants the whole time and don't have to worry about Will saves and the like. (Unless someone has ideas on how to do this easier/more reliably)

I look forward to the discussions, thanks :-D.

Kayerloth wrote:

Of course, as GM, you could always let them work on it, do research etc., without giving them the precise DC needed and if they aren't taking any hints you're providing on the appropriateness of said Item (or probable crafting level etc.) --> then some time later they are most likely the proud possessor of a suitably cursed Ring of Constant Whiffing (and if you feeling especially cruel anytime they do some how hit despite a -20 to all their rolls well then there's that miss chance it gives the possessor as well :p).

Spot on! : )

That's so mean though.... I know as a character, flooding 90% or more of my wealth into this ring for either myself or for a party member... spending 10-20 sessions making it, only to have it cursed? I'd feel so defeated I'd probably quit after that session...

If you can't use your imagination in a game like D&D and only use what you feel is Correct off the tables... Then what's the point yeah?

If the effect of the item is not the same as the effect of the spell in question, then the DM says yea or nay, and the player can't even point to the tables to justify a cost.

That being the case, if the effect desired by the player is to give the wearer a +20 insight bonus to every attack, with no required activation action by the wearer, then the DM has two available answers:-

• roll D% and say that this is how many millions of gp it will cost, the time to craft being the usual 1 day per 1000gp

• say 'Hahahahahahahahahahah....no!'

You saying if he says yes but it's millions of gold for the crafting time, and also they can't rush it with feats and stuff?

^ Exactly my point... :D

A 'constant' true strike is self-defeating. The duration is, effectively, one round or until discharged. If you were to increase it's duration to 'infinite', then it becomes, effectively, 'infinite...or until discharged'; you'd be paying the price for a permanent magic item and only end up with a one-use item, which will automatically activate when you make the first attack roll you make whether you like it or not, and then your item will be non-magical.

You're the first person to bring that up.... then it's the debate of semantics of... Since it's constant effect, and therefore ridiculously more pricey than just a ring of at will True Strike, I would think it'd keep the bonus on all attacks... but by the time you can afford things like this... you really don't need it lol... and if you did make it and it somehow got stolen... you'd be in huge trouble.

Just for the sake of arguement, would GM's allow a Ring of True Strike that let you cast the spell an infinite number of times a day?

Given you'd have to spend an action to gain the buff, and it only applied to the first attack each time, would it be a viable item and how would you price it?

That type of an object would be a BIT more balanced.... since if you did Flurry of Blows on a Monk for example... instead of ALL the hits getting +20 (Broken IMO), only the first hit would get the effect.

Nimoot wrote:

So if you flat out say "I don't have the caster levels, so I'll just add 5 to the DC, would you still include the caster level in the DC, or only add 5? Since it's 5 for not being CL 60, plus 5 for rushing, and the original 5.... does that mean the DC is 15?... If this was the case, I'd just have my familiar at home doing 3,000 (Or 6,000... I don't know which doubling rule to use and whatnot yet) for a year to make my ring for me... and anytime that I'm at 'home' I'd help the crafting to speed it up.

The DC is 5+CL whether or not you have the CL needed. So it'd be 5 base +60 CL+5 not having CL+5 rushing for DC 75.

I figured as much... :D This thread has been fun ^_^

So if you flat out say "I don't have the caster levels, so I'll just add 5 to the DC, would you still include the caster level in the DC, or only add 5? Since it's 5 for not being CL 60, plus 5 for rushing, and the original 5.... does that mean the DC is 15?... If this was the case, I'd just have my familiar at home doing 3,000 (Or 6,000... I don't know which doubling rule to use and whatnot yet) for a year to make my ring for me... and anytime that I'm at 'home' I'd help the crafting to speed it up.

I mean... I understand the crit rule, if you raise a crit severity from X2 to X3... it's doubling the crit severity... instead of going X2 to X4 right? I don't think my friend knew about the certain dwarf deity speeding up how much you can do in a day... I'll have to bring that up.

Where is it to say that it doesn't double instead of adding to the multiplier? In my mind, both ways make sense, but going 1,000>2,000>4,000>8,000 is doubling your effectiveness.

Doubling things don't stack multiplicatively, they stack additively. Two doubles make a triple, for example. Doubling thrice would give you 4,000 a day.

Can you explain the math on that, like use 1,000 gold and then go through the math with that for 8 hours of crafting, rushed, with a familiar with cooperative crafting who shares the mythic crafting feat as well.

So he's got Valet Familiar, he rushes, adding 5 to the DC, and has cooperative crafting, plus he has a mythic feat called Mythic Craft that doubles the amount he can do in a day...

The Math:

1000

2000 (rushed)

4000 (rushed with familiar helping)

8000 (rushed with familiar helping with mythic crafting)

Right?

Cooperative Crafting is in the Valet Template for a familiar, it doubles how much gold you can work on an item by double... still trying to figure out the rest of the math...

Nimoot wrote:

(My friend said he can do 8,000 gold per day with his crafting feats... is that possible? O_O.... I realize this'll cause a whole different can of worms to be opened but I figure I may as well do it!)

I'd like to see how he can do 8000gp of crafting per day.

Ravingdork came up with ways of making the costs a lot less, but not ways of doing a higher total per day.

I think through the use of his familiar with the Valet Template?... I'm not sure what that entails to though.

Yes, a friend wanted to make his party a few rings of constant effect true strike.... but figured they'd be ridiculously expensive and time consuming to do so... I was QUITE curious at how long and how expensive such rings would cost. Yes to Constant Effect, and Yes to Every Attack lol.

(My friend said he can do 8,000 gold per day with his crafting feats... is that possible? O_O.... I realize this'll cause a whole different can of worms to be opened but I figure I may as well do it!)

So what would the Math be behind what it would cost? I'm looking at the graph, and I get 56,000 for you needing to be spell caster lvl 7 for rings, multiplied by spell level, 1, by 2000, and then by 4 since the spell lasts in Rounds/a round.

1 X 7 X 2000 X 4 = 56,000... but since it's adding +20... what part of the chart would I look up for that?

Thanks again very much, I love discussions like this, gets my mind going.

Could I have a Magic Ring with True Strike constant effect?
I'm totally prepared for a no, but I'm curious as to the reasoning behind a yes/no answer.

Thanks :-D.

So even if I wanted to have an Amulet that had infinite casts of Shield and Mage Armor... that still isn't doable?

You can create items with constant effect spells (with GM approval only) IF they do not fall under another category first. Specifically, the items you want to create are under the AC boosting clauses that Diego pointed out.

However, your GM is completely justified in simply saying 'no custom items'. Custom items can be screwy and are usually difficult to balance.

The only thing I disagree with Diego on is the 'slotless' statement.
Bracers of Armor + another effect is the price of Bracers of Armor + 1.5 times the second effect. This is on CRB page 553.

- Gauss

Any clue what level I would need to be to be able to even craft said item with +4 armor and +4 shield? Our DM has an issue with the "Loot System" as it's his first campaign... so we have 138 gold at level 2.... with a few magic items which might give us more gold... so if I want to craft something I want to get the bang for my buck.