Nicolas Grilli's page

Sorry for reviving the post. We are playing dead suns 3. I am reading the marrowbligth and its multi-attack is worse than a full attack (-5 to hit). What conclusion did you reach? Can monsters Full attack or not?

Speaking about arrows and Bulk. They should be heaviest to me, considering a flask of acid has also L bulk, shouldn't the arrows have Bulk 5L or something?

Presenting this as a Dwarf only situation is weird. Any non-Elf in Heavy Armor winds up with the same speed as the dwarf does.

And yeah, in an open plain, kiting such people is a solid tactic...assuming they don't simply move off in the opposite direction to seek cover or the like.

I was checking if this situation occurred in PF1. It could happen but it was less obvious, since the fastest PC had to run. This left him without attacking at least 1 turn. Maybe in PF2 the situation is more obvious especially because you can double move and attack.

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Realistically, what GM is going to run a combat via "the monsters attack once and run away, using their superior speeds"?

If this was a PvP game, the OP's concern would be reasonable, but it decidedly is not.

Well, they might put the enemies at the top of a sheer 90 foot cliff from the players though, pelting them with longbows. Or have flying enemies, like a Grig. CR 1 flying 30 foot enemy with a ranged 30 foot attack. Its certainly not going to fly into melee with the dwarf to deal 1d4-2 damage. Staying 30 feet directly above the dwarf seems like a good plan.

I mean, in such a scenario, the dwarf simply loses without a ranged attack.

That kind of scenario (the flying one) make me thing about the changes and say "hey, the changes on ranged bonuses are a good thing. But a PJ shouldn't be able to move faster than a bear because that let the bear withouth chances (except if he knows how to use a bow)

Nicolas Grilli wrote:

I love the new actions system, but I am afraid about something. Let's say we have a level 1 Elf, with a Bow and speed 40 ft. And on the other hand we have a Dwarf with speed 20 ft. If the elf decide to move+move+shoot, the dwarf will never catch him even if he use his 3 actions to move, cause the elf move 80 ft with 2 actions (and then he fires) and the dwarf only move 60 ft.

Please tell me I am wrong.

The thing to think about is kiting with an animal companion with a speed of 35 but only 2 actions. It's faster than 30 move creatures but can never outrun them...

Well I did some math, and have good news. The Dwarf archer vs the Elf archer have a chance at least on low levels (there are too many variables to consider what can happen on high level) because he hit harder (superior strength bonuses) and will have more HP.

But a troll has 0 chance even with a movement of 30 feet. I am thinking about capping the maximum speed for the PJs on 35 feet.

PS: I know that you usually never have infinites squares. But is so sad for many monsters who do not have a ranged attack.

Quandary wrote:

Or... just limit speed disparities so 3xDwarfMove >= 2xElfMove. The stated problem doesn't exist for 25 vs 35 speed, nor for 20 vs 25, nor for 20 vs 30 (which was 3.x/P1E ratio).

You just need 5 more feet of movement to make double move shoot while the enemy can't do anything (unless he has Attack of Opportunity or Sudden Charge).

The new system is very different on movement. Now, moving is an extremely powerfull action, move speed bonuses are extremely important and having a ranged option is both very viable and nearly mandatory.

You have a point, but considering it, maybe the ranged attack on mele situations, should have a stronger penalization.

And the elves shouldn´t be able to move 40 feet since level 3.

How'd he get speed 40' at 1st level? He can have Nimble Elf to bring him up to 35', but has no way to get Fleet to make 40. Not that this changes your actual point, since moving 70 with 2 actions still beats the dwarf's 60 with 3.

Anyway, you are correct that the elf wins here while laughing maniacally (as a free action).

EDIT: And if the dwarf is foolish enough to carry a tower shield (-5' speed, not susceptible to Unburdened Iron feat 'cause it's not armor) then a regular 25' person of whatever race can pull off the same thing, moving 50 in 2 while the dwarf moves 45 in 3.

Anyway, you are correct that the elf wins here while laughing maniacally (as a free action). XD

The only way to get around this design wise is a) have no differences in move speeds across the game or b) tie movement to a dice roll. A is boring, B is tedious.

If your dwarf is concerned with being outpaced he can spend money (or a feat) on a horse, take movement enhancing feats (Sudden Charge for example) invest in movement reducing options (tanglefoot etc.)

How does this work on previous version? Maybe the charge and the run help with these. The main problem, from my point of view, is the double movement and shooting.

On PF1 you could have a similar problem with somebody on horseback, but that's at least a bit uncommon.

Anyway, I take note of your advices.

Your Dwarf can just hide behind a wall. Your Dwarf can draw a bow. Your Dwarf can do tons of things other than running after an Elf. If he doesn't have a range weapon and if he's on an open field, then I think he gets what he earns.

Maybe you are right, but that sound like a design flaw to me.

I love the new actions system, but I am afraid about something. Let's say we have a level 1 Elf, with a Bow and speed 40 ft. And on the other hand we have a Dwarf with speed 20 ft. If the elf decide to move+move+shoot, the dwarf will never catch him even if he use his 3 actions to move, cause the elf move 80 ft with 2 actions (and then he fires) and the dwarf only move 60 ft.

Please tell me I am wrong.