NetoD20's page

Hullo, Finders of the Path.

So, I stopped awarding and calculating XP for my home games awhile ago, and since I've been leveling up my players whenever I feel sufficient time has passed, but usually after every 3 game sessions. However I felt that they really weren't doing anything to earn that new level, so I'm implementing an alternate XP/Level Up system I took from an RPG called Invisible Sun.

So far it has been working ok, basicly players need to gather 3 points of Joy, 3 of Despair, and 5 Acumen. They get Acumen for completing Character Arcs that are described in the original IS system. Joy and Despair they get whenever something really good or something really bad happens to them in the game. So growth and learning come from both good and traumatic experience through the course of adventuring, and through completing personal or group agendas (Acumen from advancing Character Arcs) like rescuing princesses, founding an organization, crafting a very difficult item, joining a secret cult, exploring a lost ruined city, and so on.

All this stems from the player's actions (and reactions), what their goals are, what they actually do in the game beside murdering and pillaging creatures.

However, my players are finding it hard to get Joy awarded to them, and I'm also finding it hard to come up with story reasons to give it to them, aside from "completing the quest" (also "screwing up the quest" for Despair).

The original Invisible Sun game system indicates three things that might award Joy, and three things that might award Despair, for each "Order" in the game (that's the closest thing the game has to Pathfinder's classes). So I thought of writing three things that would award Joy and other three for Despair for each race and class in Pathfinder. Of course not all of them at once, starting with the Core ones and going up from there.

So, what I came here to ask is: What would give an elf Joy? What would give a Dwarf Despair? What about a Barbarian? Or a Ranger? I'm having difficulty with the more martial classes, given that the Orders in Invisible Sun are pretty much all made up of magical characters.

These should be things that are not super rare, like once per adventure, but also can't be things that are too easy to achieve and abuse.

For instance: a halfling might get 1 Despair by going too long without good quality food. A ranger might get 1 Despair for failing to track his favourite enemy. A cleric that consecrates/desecrates the temple of an opposing deity might get 1 Joy. And so on...

I'm sorry but I heavily disliked almost everything that I read.

All feats, be they general, class, or skill, are very underwhelming, it seems Paizo let the Nerf Hammer completely loose. I can only specialize to legendary into three skills, but it seems Paizo determined that the skills I like aren't worth it, so they get only one or two skill feats that I can select, despite my desire to specialize in them, but skills like Athletics, Acrobatics, and Society get a ton of skill feats. I can't craft magic items using Arcana (1ed's Spellcraft) anymore, so I'm forced to invest in Crafting instead of a more flavourful skill that I'm actually interested in. Lore skills outside Arcana, Nature, Religion, and Occultism are mechanically unatractive despite me wanting to invest in them because of the flavour, why do I have to be punished for wanting to become Legendary in Lore: Planes? If I want to focus in one Lore skill I have to say goodbye to a whole third of all my skill advancement, and as much as I love being the knowledgeable guy it is just too much investment for little return, it's much more advantageous to just have it Trained, after all, being Legendary at it is numerically just three points more. As a matter of fact, I'm hard pressed to find something good about even Arcana, Nature, Occultism, and Religion, Nature being the only one with more than one skill feat. Still on skills, they said during the playtest previews that they were augmenting the number of skills the classes get, citing the Fighter going from 2 + Int to 3 + Int, but they actually reduced the number of skills the Alchemist gets, and the Wizard stayed the same. Also, way to dump Int right? It has no bearing on skills being 1st level, what a waste.

Zero organization, why aren't wizard spells at least organized into Schools of Magic?? That was a flaw of 1ed's supplements in relation to the Core Rulebook, and they made it worse by eliminating the short preview phrase of the spell. Why didn't they put the spell's spell list in its description?? I have to keep going back to the lists to see where they belong to, it's very bad. Who had the brilliant idea of putting the description of powers mixed with the descriptions of spells? That was awful, I have to keep jumping up and down the book to see what my class does. Turning everything into spells just to clarify 1ed's SLAs and Su abilities is bland and boring, just like the gamey term Spell Points, and as pointed out above it screwed the book's organization.

Not only that, now domains and bloodline abilities not only have been reduced but have become just spells, and nothing more, No longer will we get passive domain and bloodline abilities, like the super flavourful Woodland Stride, that now has become a limited Spell Point spending power/spell. Making the Bard an occult spellcaster is just a forced excuse to have the "occult" concept in the game from the get-go in the Core Rulebook. And what's even the difference from Arcane and Occult magic? Why should there be such a difference?? At least with the psychic classes it was a little more fleshed out, but this is just lazy and forced. Why aren't sorcerers arcane spellcasters by default? It's horrible, sorcerers should be the masters of dramatic fireball-slinging spellcasting just like wizards, not of Divine magic, for instance. I mean, I love for them to get spells from other lists based on their bloodline, but to change the whole spell list?? No! It should be arcane just like 1ed, even though I think they should definitely get more spells from other lists than they did in 1ed. If anything, changing their list but reducing their bloodline abilities is less flavourful, so is having class feats that focus on their list instead of focusing on the actual bloodline, damn it.

NASS (Non-Automatically Scaling Spells) is a needless bog of boring choices, I don't want to choose at which level I wanna cast the spell, I just want to cast it. And NASS also had a terrible effect on the sorcerer, because it either makes spontaneous casters too powerful or too weak, in the end the playtest design chose the second option, where the class has to give up one of its known spells for each version of the spell the character wants to pick, automatically scaling two known spells being an ineffective and lazy fix.

They murdered some spells, like Haste and Glitterdust, instead of just making them higher level if they felt they were too powerful in 1ed. 10th level spells are a complete joke, they are glorified 9th level spells that were actually nerfed in relation to their 1ed version, and on top of that you must spend your capstone feat to get them, which allows you to choose TWO from a incredibly long list of THREE. Metamagic feats are few and far between, and although I like the "add one action" mechanic, they are very underwhelming, just like I said of the other feats.

Familiars actually got weaker and less customizable, which is crazy. I'm not saying I wanted them to be combat animals (that's already the role of animal companions), but in 1ed. I wanted to at least get to choose some extra feats for them as we level up, now that's not even in the agenda anymore to save familiars.

Ancestries are just sad, you get minimal physiological traits from your ancestry and then ONE ancestry feat. The idea of getting ancestry-related abilities for free as we level up and not just at 1st level is great, however it becomes completely void if we don't get the normal racial abilities we got at 1st level in 1ed.

Resonance is another joke, they said that resonance was supposed to be a single system to keep track of magic item uses, and yet they didn't get rid of the old systems as well, so I have to spend 1 resonance and 1 charge to activate staffs and wands?? Great Corellon! It should be either one or the other. Also, they want to make the game more streamlined for new players, but having to spend 1 Resonance to activate a one use item, like a potion, is one of the most counter-intuitive things I've ever saw in an RPG

Retraining as part of the core rules is nice, except they aren't really much in the way of rules, since they don't assert how much money you have to spend to retrain a certain ability, only time, and barely.

I think the playtest has some great ideas, like the way encounters are put together, using more silver pieces at the begining, xp awarding, poisons, traps, and other hazards being actually meaningful and not trivial, creating new monsters faster, skill feats if all the skills got the proper treatment they deserve, etc. but its content is awful.

Nature is not always pretty and bucolic, nature is also often savage and brutally competitive. I'm trying to channel the dark aspects of nature to form a bloodthirsty cabal of Ur-Flan druids. My idea is that, being a god of the naturalistic Flan people, it would be a great opportunity to present Nerull as a patron of such druids. Nerull is the god of death, and death is a very important aspect of the natural cycle, there can be no life without death, no renewal without decay. The weed feeds the lamb, and the lamb feeds the predator, the predator feeds the worm, the weed, and the flowers. I'm thinking of druids that worship the Decay aspect of nature, much like the Rot in the Swamp Thing comics. Nerull is a great candidate not only because he's a god of death, but also an embodiment of winter. Winter means the death of all life. Spring its renewal. Nerull cuts off the head of Obad-Hai, the Shalm, and hangs it in a tree at the beginning of every winter. In the beginning of spring seeds fall from the head into the ground, and Obad-Hai is reborn anew. So yes, Nerull is a great candidate for the patron of evil druids, even if I'm struggling a little bit with the whole undead aspect of Nerull, and how his druids would deal with that. Is undeath as unnatural to them as it is to most other archetypical generic druids or do they somehow embrance undeath as part of nature? Maybe they only raise spirit-less undead, the soul being departed as the natural cycle demands, but the corpse is still useful to the druid, just like it is to the worm, and the vegetables that grow off of it. Do these druids like to employ Yellow Musk Creepers? I'm fishing for ideas here, people, and for any interesting material/literature on evil druids and/or worshippers of Nerull. I DM Pathfinder, so any mechanical material from 3.X/PF would be great, but I'm more interested in lore about Nerull, and Ur-Flan druids. Of course, I can adapt material from any edition, as long as it is on-theme and/or Greyhawk related. I posted this here because I didn't know where a Greyhawk thread would be best suited to be.

I know that polymorph spells were broken in 3.X, but 1st edition Pathfinder polymorph spells don't make sense. Why can I not get as strong as a giant ape when I polymorph into one? Or as swift as an air elemental? I want a polymorph system where I get the physical stats of the creature I'm turning into. If I turn into a dragon I want to be a fricking dragon! I'd prefer not to be allowed to turn into the pale shadow of the intended creature. Each polymorph spell could use a table of appropriate creatures you can turn into just like Summon spell lists, so that balance can be preserved and people can still turn exactly into the creatures they choose leaving out overpowered monsters.

I'd like to discuss something that was revealed yesterday in the Know Direction twitch stream. It has been confirmed that in 2ed playtest spells won't scale automatically according to your caster level. Based on what they said we can assume that, for instance, a fireball would only deal its base damage, no matter your actual caster level and, if you wanted it to scale, you'd have to cast it as a higher level spell. Similar to metamagic in 1st edition, similar to 5th edition's casting, and similar to the way in which you have to spend more power points in the psionics system in order to get greater effects for your powers. So your spells power won't increase while you become a more experienced spellcaster unless you make an effort and keep spending the resource of magic everytime you want them to match your actual power. I want to know the general opinion about this and discuss it in-depth. I, for one, absolutely hate it, pardon for the use of the strong word "hate" in here, I do not mean to be rude or antagonistic, but it is how I feel. I like virtually all the changes hinted at so far, combat streamlining, new magic item philosophy, new monster creation philosophy, backgrounds etc. but spellcasting has been disappointing me at every turn. They explicitly said from the announcement that they wanted lower level abilities to get less relevant as you level up and chose new higher level abilities, and it seems that they meant spells for the most part. I love my lower level spells even when I have more powerful ones, I don't want them to become useless unless I have to make them take the slot of a higher level spell. In my opinion it's an unnecessary nerf on casters, if they want to address the so called caster-martial gap then they should make non-casters cooler instead of making magic weaker.

So, I decided to make some alterations to the Witch class, and I'd like the community's opinion on it. I've always liked that the Witch was an Intelligence-based spellcaster, but the fact that they don't need Charisma nor Wisdom bothered me a bit. I like casters like the Psychic that have to rely on two ability scores for their magical powers, and to me adding Wisdom/Charisma to the brew seemed good to reflect popular portrayal of witches as either irresistible charmers or keepers of ancient folk spellcasting methods. That still keeps witches similar to wizards, but adds flavour and differentiation between the two. The other thing that always bothered me a bit was that the Witch Spell List always seemed a little too limited, I understand that hexes are the focus, but the fact that no witch can cast animate dead or planar binding independently of her chosen patron seemed just wrong to me. So I expanded the Witch's spell list, in turn counterbalancing it with her Hexes being based off either Wisdom or Charisma instead of Intelligence (chosen at first level). Needing two different ability modifiers to be effective, however, seemed a bit of a heavy toll, even with an expanded spell list. So I also gave the Witch the ability to spontaneously convert spells into Patron Spells and the Cauldron hex for free at 1st level. The seconf more for flavour reasons and to create symmetry with the Wizard's Scribe Scroll and the Sorcerer's Schew Materials. I made my decisions keeping flavour over balance in mind, the reason I alter classes is because I want for them to reflect a specific flavour and for them to better fit my home world. However, balance is still important, and that's why I'd appretiate the community's opinion on it.

WITCH

Cauldron: Every witch gets the Cauldron hex at 1st level as a bonus hex.

Hex: At 1st level every witch character must choose if her magic relies partly on ancient folk wisdom or in an innate gift for witchcraft. If she chooses the first, her hexes will use her Wisdom modifier instead of her Intelligence modifier for all DCs and effects. If she chooses the second option, her hexes will use her Charisma modifier instead of her Intelligence modifier for all DCs and effects. The witch’s spellcasting, however, still relies on her Intelligence for all DCs and effects. This alters Hex.

Patron: Unlike a deity to a cleric, the patron provides very little of the witch’s power to her, its role being that of a witch’s supernatural tutor, teaching her magic through the familiar as an intermediary. If the witch’s patron is destroyed she does not lose her powers, but rather she has to find a new patron to keep teaching her magic in order to keep gaining new levels in the Witch class. A witch is very similar to a wizard in that they use magic in a very similar manner, but learn it differently. A witch has no pact with her patron which, as an unknowable entity, simply chooses to teach her magic for its own mysterious reasons. Often a witch has no grasp on the true nature of her patron, and leaving it might be a difficult task.
Every witch can spontaneously convert any spell they have prepared into a patron spell of the same level.

Spells: Every witch gets the following spells added to their spell list at the given levels:

1st – Level Witch Spells
Curse Water: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/curse-water/
Deathwatch: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/deathwatch
Detect Undead: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/detect-undead/
Endure Elements: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/endure-elements/
Entangle: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/entangle/
Faerie Fire: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/faerie-fire/
Jump: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/j/jump/
Memory Lapse: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/memory-lapse/
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/protection-from-evil/
Silent Image: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/silent-image
Thorn Javelin: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/thorn-javelin/
Ventriloquism: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/v/ventriloquism

2nd – Level Witch Spells
Accelerate Poison: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/accelerate-poison/
Bear’s Endurance: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/bear-s-endurance/
Bull’s Strength: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/bull-s-strength/
Cat’s Grace: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/cat-s-grace/
Command Undead: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/command-undead/
Continual Flame: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/continual-flame/
Darkness: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/darkness/
Darkvision: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/darkvision/
Dust of Twilight: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/dust-of-twilight/
Eagle’s Splendor: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/eagle-s-splendor/
Fox’s Cunning: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/fox-s-cunning/
Owl’s Wisdom: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/o/owl-s-wisdom/
Silence: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/silence/
Tasha’s Hideous Laughter: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/h/hideous-laughter/
Twisted Space: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/twisted-space/
Wrath: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/w/wrath/

3rd – Level Witch Spells
Beast Shape I: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/beast-shape/
Calm Emotions: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/calm-emotions
Contagion: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/contagion/
Deeper Darkness: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/deeper-darkness/
Magic Circles Against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-sp/magic-circle-against-evil
Major Image: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/major-image/
Oneiric Horror: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/o/oneiric-horror/
Wind Wall: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/w/wind-wall/

4th – Level Witch Spells
Animate Dead: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/animate-dead/
Beast Shape II: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/beast-shape/
Dimensional Anchor: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/dimensional-anchor
Dominate Person: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/dominate-person
Hallucinatory Terrain: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/h/hallucinatory-terrain/
Overwhelming Grief: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/o/overwhelming-grief
Shadow Conjuration: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/shadow-conjuration/

5th – Level Witch Spells
Aspect of the Wolf: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/aspect-of-the-wolf/
Beast Shape III: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/beast-shape/
Control Summoned Creature:
Dismissal: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/dismissal/
Dream: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/dream/
Giant Vermin: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/giant-vermin/
Lesser Planar Binding:
Mirage Arcana: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/mirage-arcana/
Nightmare: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/n/nightmare/
Polymorph:
Repulsion: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/repulsion/
Shadow Evocation: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/shadow-evocation/
Snake Staff: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/snake-staff/
Tree Stride: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/tree-stride/
Wall of Thorns: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/w/wall-of-thorns/

6th – Level Witch Spells
Animal Growth: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/animal-growth
Antilife Shell: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/antilife-shell
Banishment: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/banishment
Beast Shape IV: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/beast-shape/
Circle of Death: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/circle-of-death
Create Undead: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/create-undead/
Envious Urge: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/envious-urge/
Form of the Dragon I: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/form-of-the-dragon-i/
Planar Binding: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/planar-binding/
Serenity: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/serenity/
Shadow Walk: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/shadow-walk/

7th – Level Witch Spells
Animate Plants: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/animate-plants/
Ethereal Jaunt: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/ethereal-jaunt
Form of the Dragon II: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/form-of-the-dragon-i/
Control Undead: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/control-undead/
Greater Shadow Conjuration: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/shadow-conjuration/
Phantasmal Revenge: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/phantasmal-revenge/
Finger of Death: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/finger-of-death
Stone Tell: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/stone-tell/

8th – Level Witch Spells
Create Greater Undead: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/create-undead/
Dimensional Lock: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/dimensional-lock
Form of the Dragon III: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/form-of-the-dragon-i/
Greater Planar Binding: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/planar-binding
Greater Shadow Evocation: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/shadow-evocation/
Screen: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/screen/

9th – Level Witch Spells
Etherealness: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/etherealness
Gate: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/gate
Overwhelming Presence: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/o/overwhelming-presence
Shades: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/shades/
Shambler: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/shambler/
Shapechange: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/shapechange
Weird: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/w/weird
Winds of Vengeance: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/w/winds-of-vengeance/

I think that a long time ago I may have already done a question similar to this, but anyway.

1.How does rp influence cr/ecl? If the cr/ecl of a 1st level character with an 11 rp or less race (core races) is equal to her character level (assuming appropriate PC wealth), what would be the cr/ecl of a 1st level character belonging to a race with 42 rp (like the Drow Noble, which has 41 rp)? It surely shouldn't be the same.

2.Whatever your answers might be, let's assume for a moment that the creature's cr/ecl would be augmented by +3 due to its 42 rp, to a total of cr/ecl of 4. How much wealth should this character have? Should the character gain wealth by level according to its final cr or its class levels?

So, I may be going mad, but I was certain that Paizo published a alchemist archetype in one of its soft cover books terribly like Ultimate Magic's Vivisectionist, with more or less the same theme and role (alchemist torturer with a sneak attack).

But I simply can't find it anywhere, nor its book or its name.

You may ask why would they publish similar archetype with different abilities and thus question to validity of what I'm saying, though it has happened before that Paizo published similar archetypes in different books, take the Homunculist and the Promethean archetypes, for instance.

I may be wrong, or I may have implanted memories, we will never know.

P.S. I'm certain I'm not looking for the Wayward Rogues' Vivisectionist hybrid class nor any of the multiclass archetype classes, but I may be confusing this mystery archetype with yet other 3rd party content.

Ok, I have a big concept/fluff problem here, and I'd like you guys, as well as both Paizo designers and Dreamscarred designers, to help me solve it.
So, I've liked psionics since 3.5 and loved how Dreamscarred worked on them for the Pathfinder system. But you see, it's not exactly my main thing. I like them and have decided which places they fit in on my favourite and regularly used setting, Greyhawk. So if I want the Scarlet Brotherhood, illithids, priest of Zuoken and/or Xan Yae, among other themes, to be involved in a given adventure, I'll probably reach for psionics. What I'm trying to say it's that I'm far from a specialist, I'm just a guy who likes psionics and uses them once in a while.
That said, my problem is how to differentiate psionics and psychic magic in fluffy/concept. That's extremely important to me, because I want to use both of them in my home Greyhawk world, but I can't acknowledge them as the same thing or kind of power/thing, given that they have very distinct mechanics.
If I can't come to decide that, I'm afraid I'll have to drop one of the two systems, and I really don't want to do that, because I like them both.
See, when I think of psionics what springs to mind are illithids, Martian Manhunter, the Brain (DC villain), the two Gith races, and aliens (outsiders) in general. On the other hand when I think of psychic magic I visualize Penny Dreadful, spirits, cryptic visions, secrets, and mysteries, but aliens spring to mind once again when I think of Elder God cults and mad priests getting psychic powers from their otherworldly patrons. However, this is only a very vague and unsubstantial differentiation of how the two feel, but not a definition on how exactly different they are in source and concept.
One thing I could do is blurring the lines and making psychic magic a kind of arcane magic. But that still doesn't do for me, I don't know exactly from where to tackle this problem.
So I would like your inputs on how you guys view psionics and psychic magic on the same world being different things, for I would like to build as robust boundaries between them as possible.

What I wanted to do here was to get the summoner class far from the sorcerer and more wizard-like.
Doing so I had to create a completly new origin story and flavour-text for the class, which was something I disliked a lot about the original Pathfinder summoner.
Then I placed this origin story as a recent minor event on my favourite campaing setting, the World of Greyhawk, which is where my home campaigns take place.
I still left some space in the setting for what I called "natural summoner", which is the summoner class as presented in the Pathfinder Advanced Player's Guide in opposition to the "regular" summoner I just created.
To those of you who do not know the Greyhawk setting, there is something you must know: most of the time, but not all, the "sorcerer" word used in the origin story of this class does not refer to the sorcerer class. That happens because I tied my variant summoner to a World of Greyhawk organization called the Sorcerer's Nexus of Rel Astra, which was created in AD&D age when the sorcerer class did not exist, and the word "sorcerer", as far as I know, was just another synonym for the ordinary magic-user.
Nexus Sorcerers kept their name in third edition, as seen in Living Greyhawk supplements. I tried to make the difference clear everytime I used the word sorcerer to refer to the class instead of refering to the members of the Nexus, so I would not have to appeal to tecnical terms.