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If it hurts your brain let massage them for you... So deliciously tender... As an ex once told me, "I think you meant to say imply."
It is wrong. It may also have been harmless, even funny, everyone may have had a blast. But it was still wrong. It's good that no one had hurt feelings. All GMs make mistakes and this time the mistake didn't upset anyone... in fact they had fun with it. But it could have gone so much worse.Yeah, I think the table's expectation is the point. In that game the latter bolded statement may not be the case. (I've played in games where the player actions are sometimes determined by the DM - it's not my preferred style, but it's not wrong).We were at that point where the GM knows us well enough to pull things like that. We had that level of trust. I wouldn't have mentioned it as story without some complaining if it was bad. We still remember that and laugh. If you guys react so strongly to possible GM controlling when it isn't even your game and we're all happy, just wow. He was too eloquent for his stats. I agree with what the DM did. The player wanted to do A, but didn't have stats for it, so in his mind A was done, but reality was what DM revealed as B. If this is the case why can't I just say I swiftly scale things with my 8 str 4 armor check penalty character? DM is the narrator, the player is the character from the character's point of view (but y'all metagamuhs fo sho), so as narrator, he describes how it happens. Didn't want it to happen? Don't dump stat. You want your dump stats, how about you reinforce that any time anyone wants to ever talk to an NPC require a diplomacy check, and just give the DM the gist of what you want. You do that for swimming and climbing, so why not make the whole game rollplaying. Pathfinder is pretty much set up for it anyway.-Confession of a 5e convert that likes spell points and poisoning level 2 players' food.
The tiny amount of additional damage hardly seems worth two to three extra levels. Sure, it's probably +5 to damage, but with Inquisitor 5 I'm getting Bane (average +7 damage) and more spells. The idea is you can't have bane active 24/7 where as training is always active.
By the way, how did the Guided enchantment fly with your DM? He ruled it would work for damage. He also said he'd let me use magic items and feats for bows can work for xbow, within reason, which he trusts my judgment. On the note of Judgment, I saw the Grave Warden's Bandoleer and fell in love, so I think I will go one level of Cleric (Crusader or Theologian) for channeling, pick up Channeling Scourge, and possibly Cleansing Burst. Sacred Conduit trait, etc... Do channeling inquisitors work well? And will that be worth it in this AP? Rest Inquisitor (Kinslayer) maybe a level or two of Ranger (Corpse Hunter). We're doing alternate multiclass rules from unchained, so multiclassing to pick up channeling isn't going to hurt my BAB, only my spellcasting and feature progression, but is inquisitor even that much of a caster?
Lol, I dump statted Wisdom so my grit pool ain't so high, but I appreciate it. xD
And thus the game goes from fun because of concept to not so fun because you have to be mechanically sound. HAVE to be mechanically sound to survive many APs. Except reality is there is far more mechanically unsound than sound. I have been in the army for 5 years now, and well, I'd say a good half of the people I've been with have been "sound" at something, but very unsound elsewhere. I'm pretty damn good at my job, I'm barely passable with a rifle, and good with my m9 and unbelievable with my languages. Plenty of soldiers can be fantastic with their rifle but can't run a quarter-mile. They signed up to be soldiers, just like the low wisdom Pippin who was constantly touching crap that he shouldn't have been became an adventurer. A true adventuring group should have people with realistic flaws while the other party members divide up labor so that they can function to minimize those flaws or lack of expertise. Min-Maxing is so unrealistic that I can't justify it even in fantasy, especially when many supers have powerful and exploitable flaws. Unfortunately Pathfinder is about mechanics, and if your concept can't be worked in spirit through those mechanics you're not going to have fun. I can't hit the broad side of a barn with my rifle irl, and shooting is still fun, but in Pathfinder if I'm just rolling a D20 to hear I miss, then I'm not having fun. I've built a character for roleplay in Jade Regent and was absolutely miserable during combat. I couldn't bypass DR, the damn Oni made every single will save, and there was no opportunity in much of the AP to actually RP to a notable extent.I've began rambling.
The Cleric might be weaker than its 3.5 incarnation (I wouldn't know) but it's definitely stronger than the Paladin and Warpriest. The Oracle MIGHT be on par with it, but only in the specific God of Charisma Ultimate SAD-ness build. Don't mistake my intentions, because this isn't me being argumentative, nor do I want to derail the thread, but I am very curious to hear your reasoning for Cleric > Paladin. Maybe we could move this to another thread? Edit: Wow. This was serious thread necromancy. May 2012...
That feat is really... Really good. IMHO.
Erm, channeling kinda sucks in Pathfinder unless you spec for it. No reason why you can't ignore that you have the feature entirely, the Cleric is still a very powerful class without it and is significantly less MAD. Maybe this is a holdover from 3.5, but I find the Cleric to be very weak compared to its old incarnation, Paladin, Warpriest, and Oracle. Edit: I am trying to recall what exactly it was that gives me this impression other than playing basically the same Cleric under both systems and feeling really underpowered, or perhaps balanced, while the rest is heavily overpowered.
And thus the game goes from fun because of concept to not so fun because you have to be mechanically sound. HAVE to be mechanically sound to survive many APs. Which is why my groups are actually withdrawing from Pathfinder. Low charisma cleric HAS to have that archetype or he's useless in combat if he HAS to burst (Selective Channeling is necessary, so why its a feat at all baffles me. If its necessary for any and all builds to work it shouldn't be an option, it should be baseline). I'm playing an Elven Barbarian in 5e. No problems. Pathfinder I would have needed to spend ALL my points in CON just so I could rage for a round. As for anti-character concepts, I am trying to work on a Dhampir Kinslayer and I am refusing to make my CON higher than an 8. I want to be sickly and frail. Might even go melee with her.
That water scorpion is pretty cool.
Another idea I guess could be 5 Gunslinger (Bolt Ace)/Ranger (Corpse Hunter, Something to replace Wild Empathy which doesn't fit character idea, and ACs seem to be s%&% in every campaign I've seen), since I just realized that Disrupt Control works on ranged attacks. This way I can spend grit to hit touch AC, get DEX to damage, ignore rapid reload by picking up all my Xbox feats through Ranger Fighting style and save my normal feats for the more fun s!%&. Like Eerie Sense.
What about Grave Warden Stalker 2 Errata'd Corpse Hunter/Divine Tracker Ranger? Or is there a more fitting archetype for this AP (Urban Ranger etc.) than that combo? I know if this were Carrion Crown I'd do fine haha, this way I'm full BAB, can slap some holy water on a weapon as a swift (I don't think Rangers get many swift actions). Only downside to that is it has to be a melee weapon. Which isn't a big deal. As a Divine Tracker of Pharasma I'd take healing and death blessings. This IS assuming we can't get the inquisitor to work in some fashion.
I'm asking about guided right now. I read a thread you posted in a while back where there was no general consensus. Corpse hunter ignores the fact that undead are immune to ability damage.
Oh... The legendary Black Blood Troll! I've been a fan of your posts.
Other idea was a Khopesh wielding magus or fighter.
This confuses me - you're saying I'm suboptimal due to saves, which I don't see, I only get every save and Stalwart, and dodge bonuses to AC while being ranged... Gunslinger and Inquisitor cover all three saves, and I have a high dex and wisdom. But the AP is to tell a story, so, how can things be suboptimal to the point of not viable? You didn't really give me any advice for how to remedy that other than don't play that, play another AP.
I think at 9 I will actually take Deific Obedience and Evangelist, at 10th I'd align Inquisitor with Evangelist.
I might want to squeeze weapon finesse in there to land touch attacks and dagger attacks.
First question, is how high does Mummy's Mask go? I know the final adventure begins at 15th level. Second, I was thinking about a Dhampir Inquisitor (Kinslayer/maybe Sin Eater) of Pharasma and 5 levels in Gunslinger (Crossbow Ace).
If I don't take Sin Eater, I am thinking Final Rest or True Death Inquisitions (Does Final Rest's Disruption work on ranged? Or a blunt crossbow bolt, my GM approved the production of those). Also, is my brand worth powering up? The ability seems pretty cool but I'd need to take weapon finesse to ever land it. And if I took Heretic, could I still use the Detect Undead ability? I plan on using a heavy repeating crossbow and acting as the party's face. I have access to traits and drawbacks, and we're doing a 20 point build. Dhampir (Dayborn)
Recommendations?
First question, is how high does Mummy's Mask go? I know the final adventure begins at 15th level. Second, I was thinking about a Dhampir Inquisitor (Kinslayer/maybe Sin Eater) of Pharasma and 5 levels in Gunslinger (Crossbow Ace).
Also, is my brand worth powering up? The ability seems pretty cool but I'd need to take weapon finesse to ever land it. And if I took Heretic, could I still use the Detect Undead ability? I plan on using a heavy repeating crossbow and acting as the party's face. I have access to traits and drawbacks, and we're doing a 20 point build. Dhampir (Dayborn)
Recommendations?
A shield is a part of the Close weapon group. Any Brawler can flurry with one. *facepalm* Maybe I should have looked up close weapons before posting... I got a little zealous on potential mistakes. =P
Sorry for double post, Brawler Shield Champion can use her shield with flurry of blows ONLY when she throws it... Can't melee shield bash with flurry of blows. Oversight?Could you explain your reasoning here? I just looked over Returning Shield and I don't see a problem with it. Sure thing, direct from the PDF: "A shield champion can throw a shield as part of a brawler’s flurry."Brawler's Flurry: "When doing so, a brawler has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat when attacking with any combination of unarmed strikes, weapons from the close fighter weapon group, or weapons with the “monk” special feature." Thus, RAW, a shield champion brawler cannot make melee attacks with her shield as a part of a brawler's flurry. They can, however, only throw their shield as a flurry. I have never really liked Captain America, so shield throwing is not really something I'm keen on, especially when its still a move action to equip it to gain the armor bonuses (I just thought of that while typing), unless you're using a small quick draw shield, which leaves you with only +1 AC (+ Enchantments). Edit: Steel Hound archetype might be written incorrectly, and I am actually praying it was. Packing Heat replaces Poison Use, which Investigator's don't have, they have Poison Lore, so that was a typo. Then, Shot in the Dark replaces Swift Alchemy. But then I got to Talented Shot, and realized that it doesn't replace anything! Its completely free. I looked over Investigator and they get Poison Immunity at 11. So my understanding is that it may have been an oversight, as the archetype was meant to remove poisons from the class. So should: Shot in the Dark replace all ranks of Poison Resistance, and Talented Shot replace Poison Immunity?
Sorry for double post, Brawler Shield Champion can use her shield with flurry of blows ONLY when she throws it... Can't melee shield bash with flurry of blows. Oversight?
Ooh, spell components to enhance spells ^_^
Eldritch Scion Magus Archetype
Though:
I suppose ignoring Elemental Immunity/Resistances as per White Witch is enough to make up for that?
Here's to hoping it was +wis mod to ac?
My group is playing Skull and Shackles and I am playing a druid. I just hit level 4 druid a few sessions ago and used my wild shape for the first time last night.
Why do Paizo designers/editors hate the cleric so much? That is a question asked at my table about once a game session. They just don't really have any class features to keep them competitive with everything else released. Thus, archetypes have little to realistically change.
Ecclesitheurge has me rather confused.
Have any of you read Adv Class Guide? A lot of these, I feel, were touched on in that book, or rather close.
I have coup-de-grace'd players before. Normally I don't have them do it unless they are not threatened by other players - OR - they are a creature that is trying to kill one person. So its rare. EDIT: Though I HAVE killed a ton of my players. As this forum is testament to. But normally because they are being morons. But in this case I would have killed the player as well just because of the group's reaction to a confusion poison. Which is pretty ridiculous. Teach them not to shut down your own teammate and then leave him in melee.
My party just reached the Eon Pit and I was wondering... Can they summon a creature or create undead to fetch the key, will this work? I understand a summoned creature MAY need to make saves, but what about immune to mind effecting effects creatures?
Had another death. The Coven is a gnarly fight if people decide to just "tank up" the witchfire.
So you'd let ALL players undergo the croning ritual and not just those with levels in witch? My players are getting decimated and wanted to throw them a bone and may do this option if they befriend her. Though our archer decided to shoot Jadrenka when they first met her... At the coven fight. Basically they found Caigreal, she followed them for a bit until they reached the croning ritual, and trying to pull them away from her allies, I had her tell them that the hallway was cursed and she bolted to go form her coven and deal with the group now that she had learned their strengths. They tracked her down and were brutalized, but now that Caigreal and the coven is dead, does Jadrenka have to fear losing the Artrosa Ring?
Wow, one death... My party will argue bout tactics and halfway through book 3 we've had about 15 deaths... O-o
... This is sad...
The Gory Details:: Party decides to scale the cliff face in one day with uses of spider climb, anthaul, and fly. This ate up quite a few resources and the party had a hell of a time dealing with the two will-o-wisps. The alchemist was the only one capable of identifying them and talking to them and didn't communicate with the party until they attacked him. This fight ate up a few healing spells.
They reach the top and run into the Witch Tree. Alchemist again identifies the creature but none of its abilities. She demands sacrifice and they begin talking. They took about 10 minutes BS-ing about what to do so I had the Tree begin singing in Abyssal. Add to the creep factor... Alchemist takes a swig of barkskin potion, Tree questions his actions (I allow spellcraft for alchemist extracts) and he fails to give a disarming response, but talks to the tree in Abyssal. He begins small talk and gets the Sense Motive prompt. He fails. No one else understands Abyssal. He decides they're going to fight so he drinks a potion of shield. She attacks. First round she dominates Tevaga. Then tells the party she has chosen her prize. They try to diplomacy after she's already made up her mind, and then same time attack her (yeah 'cause shooting an arrow at her and then asking if you can parley is how most things do business...). She calls Tevaga to her as her move action. Begins awesome blowing players around being overall frustrating but not overly deadly. No one but the barbarian ever tried closing into melee with her and so she grapples him. Few rounds into the fight they protection from evil Tevaga, and fail. The tree then instructs Tevaga to defend her. My sister plays Tevaga and was very cruel to her previous allies. She positioned for cleaves, charged healers etc. This lead to the melee focusing her down instead of the tree. The healers refused to heal her, and so... She dies. Diehard took her past 0 and yet she was unrelenting in her domination (she did this all by herself after reading the spell description to the point where I acted same time as her with the tree and didn't even watch that she was critting other players.) and finally fell after about 15 rounds or so of combat. The Witch Tree knocked the Warpriest, Branis, down below 0. Nearly killed the Barbarian (who would have died 3 rounds after combat ended had he not gotten any more healing), and choked out the Winter Wolf. After her chosen prize died she informed the party that she was disappointed but would still accept the body as the sacrifice. She also allowed them to loot her and the corpses in the copse. (Did this because of how frustrated the group has been recently) They also sneakily took one of her fingers and went on their merry way into the doorway to ropetrick up for the night.
There's a 'Viking' fighter AT that gives rage powers and such. theres enough feats to go around that you can pick up TWF without much issue. Fighters also have so many issues with skill points. I liked the class abilities from Sea Reaver (ignoring cover for attacking opponents under water etc.) To fix that would my best bet be to invest in Fast Learner?
Hey all, I've done a fair amount of research on the high seas of the interwebs, yet, I still don't know how my character is going to turn out. I want to build a terrifying viking/sea reaver type character for Skull & Shackles. Now, I hate dump statting, so I don't want any stat below a 10, I have 20 pts to spend, and my DM has made a few changes to some stuff that affects what I want to do/makes me want to do something.
This gives me more misgivings about the encounter against the Witch Queen's Nightmare. Has anybody run this encounter in a way they were happy with? I would change the requirement to get an answer from a bluff v sense motive to a DC 20 Diplomacy, Intimidate, or Bluff. This way a character that wasn't a complete POS and dump statted and dropped 0 social skills will be capable of making the requirement 1/4 to 1/2 the time. I had her attack the person who asks a successful question (so that endurance is actually part of the trial). I was not going to use phantasmal killer, but you could also reserve it for the person who gets the final answer from her. Make sure to have her Nightmare Curse be scenes of murder and deception so that the players can add that as a bit of a hint. If your players are like mine, they didn't think they really needed social skills or knowledge skills, and oddly enough it has bit them in the butt since book one. If they fail to correctly ID who the animate dream should be, allow them to ask the Raven if they interact with her. I think for information to help ID the dream change the DC to a 15 when they ask her the question (down from 20) and allow them to make the knowledge check again. It is a very crucial bit of information for them to know that she is the daughter and previous queen. If they player's kill her, have the raven tell them that nightmares cannot be slain by anything other than the coming sun, and have the door slam shut, they reopen and she respawns from the pool of blood. I liked being cryptic, but don't be... too cryptic. I ended up frustrated and had to give it to them or get lynched. lol
If I am currently DMing Reign of Winter, could I still participate in the gameplay? I would probably play an Arctic Druid coming down from the mountains bordering Varisia/Irrisen due to the rumors of a unnatural cold down south.
Alright, Necrovox reporting in! Brace yourselves: Near TPK 1:
Name: Githym Rundeath Race: Half-Elf Classes/levels: Alchemist 6 Adventure: The Shackled Hut Location: The Enchanted Forest Catalyst: Peryton The Gory Details: Rolled randomly to determine who would be shadow marked, Githym and Maiana (wizard). Combat began and Githym failed his will save, and bolted. He was run down by his peryton and had his heart devoured. Name: Jon Rivers & Branis Boldarm
This was 3 deaths out of 6 characters in my group. All three were reincarnated, Githym is now a wikkawak bugbear, Jon a half-elf, and Branis is ... still an elf. But wait! There's more!
Near TPK 2:
Name: Jon Rivers & Maiana Race: Half-Elf (originally Human) & Elf Classes/levels: Gunslinger 7 & Wizard 7 Adventure: The Maiden, Mother, and Crone Location: The Trial of Night Catalyst: The Drowning Pool The Gory Details: Let the bodies hit the floor, let the bodies hit the floor, let the bodies hit the *dun dun* FLOOR! Souzael and Jon Rivers cross the pebble path formed from Githym drinking from the appropriate Chalice (they guessed well on each riddle save for the animate dream), but was set to last only 3 rounds, and they screwed off, round 3 they finally try to break the lock. They fail, and the path falls into the water. Souzael fails all three saves, Souzael fails all but one. Saving his life. Branis ran out onto the path that formed from Einen taking the next swig to rescue them. Maiana, now annoyed by the trap attempts to outsmart the old crone's trial and spider climbs up the wall. She got 30 ft. before the pool attacked her and suffocated her to death after 3 failed saves.... Name: Souzael the Keleshite
Maiana also quit the game after being killed and then witnessing the events in the next chamber. They have since moved on. Jon Rivers and Souzael did not reincarnate and have returned as a Winter Wolf Fighter, Agilur from Shackled Hut, and a Suli Barbarian named Sergeant Sanders "The Maggot" Bornhald of Brevoy respectively, and then a new player is Tevaga of Brevoy, a Half-Orc Fighter. Due to the player quitting and 2 near TPK's I allowed a bit of retraining for free. Einen is going Rogue/Wizard into Arcane Trickster now (which was more along the lines of what she wanted to do with Faunra) and Branis traded out his 7th level feat for Leadership and brought in a "healbot" Gunner Longshadow of Brevoy.
*edit* Cleaned up formatting so it wasn't a massive wall of text.
I am halfway through book 3 at roughly 8 months (one month was off due to annual training). I've added hours upon hours of roleplay with Greta, Nadya, Black Rider, Red/White Riders (when they found them), Radosek, Rohkar (this guy was around for like 3 consecutive sessions due to RP and TPK), Korag Kaag, etc. They also had about a 3-4 session derailment to get their first reincarnation. (its been easier to get people back after that)
dotting for interest or possible later post.
I was planning on Elvanna escaping through a Contingency or the like. She then flees to the ice caves which are the setting for the Witchwar Legacy module - the end battle is fighting her in the final chamber while in possession of the Torc. Tangent! Mind brainstorming with me a bit in the other room? (points to Witch Queen Revenge forum) lol. I was thinking of having the start of the fight inside the kurgan, she flees into the palace using the portal, and then the players will have to chase her, but I like this witchwar legacy idea. What were you going to do with the granny though?
I imagine the Jadwiga would bring their fist down on Waldsby. Nadya can point that out to anyone who is on the fence, and when they make their exodus and close the portal they will feel like good heroes. And then when you make mention of Waldsby being destroyed by a warband sent from Hoarwood, but the Jadwiga found that most of the residents have fled and are attempting to track them down, the players might feel a lot more like... better heroes. I'd bring up Waldsby's destruction later on in Shackled Hut, right after the party meets up with Solveig.
Has anyone reviewed the final fight with Elvanna and found it... Not quite as mythic as it should be? For some reason I want the combat to spill through the mirror portal and into the royal palace. And I might want to take on a few mythic tiers and maybe a few additional allies. Thoughts?
Thread Necromancers! The item can be used on both arms, right, and basically incur the weapon minuses as per buckler?
I think this is pretty neat, should tack on Racial Point costs though?
We just started the Maiden, Mother, Crone and its been a blast. Many of my players have said its one of the best campaigns they have ever played in. It can be really difficult (my group, except on player, enjoys that), plenty of role-play, hack'n'slash, and good isn't a necessity.
Dotting for interest. I have a player in my Reign of Winter campaign interested in Necromancy. I am a fan of Necromancers and so I would like to help create/use a balanced system for it (since Paizo likes good characters too much). I like the Necrocraft, the only issue is, as with animate dead, the size category, if there were rules for slapping advanced on it instead of increasing it in size it'd work rather well, aside from the intelligence score. As for Create Undead, I would allow a diplomacy check and then use of Leadership. The Diplomacy check will always fail after using control undead (Sylvanas and Arthas).
Turns out the first world forest in book 2 was particularly nasty as well, had three deaths leading up to Nazhena.
Alright, Vseslvod as a Warpriest!? Anyone think it is more fitting for his role? I am just... In love with the changes they made on Monday.
Couldn't Baba Yaga, as part of her wish granting as a thank you...bring back Nadya's daughter? My party told Nadya to go back to her sons at the uncle's request. I had her break down crying begging them to let her come along so that baba yaga could get her daughter back. The Cleric (soon to reclass warpriest I'm sure) was having a romantic relationship with her and he may wish for that. We shall see.
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