Maiden, Mother, Crone (GM Reference)


Reign of Winter

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The Centaur village has a max. caster level limit of 5, so the 75% rules is not in effect. They could voluntarily kill themselves and get a raise dead which would remove the malady.

I'll double check but they might have enough UMD to control the hut so they might be able to have it walk the 600 miles to the next large city.


Caster level limit and purchase limits are very different beasts. Finding a caster who could cast heal would be much, MUCH cheaper than the scroll, but scrolls can still be available by chance.


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If the party gets the "good end", which is to say, gets rid of the invaders, ends the coven problem, and both convince Jadrenka of their mission and fully befreind her (treat her well, etc), then I don't see why she wouldn't be very clear about the pit, what it does, and how it can be avoided.

In my game, assuming the players pull this off, she would offer that the whole group undergo the croning and then enter the pit, gaining the wisdom of age, the humility of infirmity, and true understanding of the march of time, the ultimate force of creation and destruction. Assuming they do so, she would remove the physical penalties, leaving the mental ones. To some this could be a nice power boost, but I think its very plot appropriate if they managed a "good end". If they managed most of that, but perhaps didn't fully convince Jadrenka of their intentions or loyalty, she might remove both the penalties and bonuses, or she might simply be quiet and let them go about their business, suffering whatever consequences may come. She is LE, after all.


The Black Bard wrote:

If the party gets the "good end", which is to say, gets rid of the invaders, ends the coven problem, and both convince Jadrenka of their mission and fully befreind her (treat her well, etc), then I don't see why she wouldn't be very clear about the pit, what it does, and how it can be avoided.

In my game, assuming the players pull this off, she would offer that the whole group undergo the croning and then enter the pit, gaining the wisdom of age, the humility of infirmity, and true understanding of the march of time, the ultimate force of creation and destruction. Assuming they do so, she would remove the physical penalties, leaving the mental ones. To some this could be a nice power boost, but I think its very plot appropriate if they managed a "good end". If they managed most of that, but perhaps didn't fully convince Jadrenka of their intentions or loyalty, she might remove both the penalties and bonuses, or she might simply be quiet and let them go about their business, suffering whatever consequences may come. She is LE, after all.

So you'd let ALL players undergo the croning ritual and not just those with levels in witch? My players are getting decimated and wanted to throw them a bone and may do this option if they befriend her. Though our archer decided to shoot Jadrenka when they first met her... At the coven fight. Basically they found Caigreal, she followed them for a bit until they reached the croning ritual, and trying to pull them away from her allies, I had her tell them that the hallway was cursed and she bolted to go form her coven and deal with the group now that she had learned their strengths. They tracked her down and were brutalized, but now that Caigreal and the coven is dead, does Jadrenka have to fear losing the Artrosa Ring?


I am starting this book soon and have some questions I was hoping for help with:

My group is growing and could number anywhere from 4 up to 7 players when we start this adventure. There are lots of solo encounters (potential or actual) that seem I'll suited to simplyadding more enemies e.g. ddire boar, animated nightmare, ravens and ratibor.
Does anyone know how I can raise the challenge of these encounters (considering action economy)

Is the hut considered a dungeon or building for favoured terrain purposes?

Thanks


My party just reached the Eon Pit and I was wondering... Can they summon a creature or create undead to fetch the key, will this work? I understand a summoned creature MAY need to make saves, but what about immune to mind effecting effects creatures?
Is this a viable method to bypass the trap?


The insanity effect seems to be mind effecting influences. So as long as the creature can be given the appropriate instructions and make the perception check (which could be a problem for the pc's in my group most likely to make the saves!)

I haven't read the preceding sections in detail yet but how does the group:
a). Know what the pit does so that they want to avoid going in
b). Know the key is in the pit

Are these points covered in the adventure?

Also is it possible that they could reach the 'final' fight far too early ?


The key can be seen at the bottom of the Eon Pit. And no, if the party didn't make any friends in Artrosia, they won't even discover the pit is dangerous until they step into it.

Marislova, if won over, could let the party know that Jadrenka had warned her about the Eon Pit. The night hag who's got the bottled message might also advise that the Eon Pit is dangerous.

Jadrenka herself hints that they want to use her age resistance scroll if she's friendly to them at that point.

And yeah, the party could go straight to the final confrontation if they navigated the dungeon just right. The odds of them actually doing so are slim, but it can happen, in which case it happens.

Sovereign Court

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Chris Lambertz wrote:
GM Reference thread for Maiden, Mother, Crone.

Dotted for future reference


I'm looking at Jadrenka's stat block, and I'm a little confused. Where does her +5 natural armor bonus come from? I count 2 from amulet, 1 from race.


+2 from having the advanced template, granted to her as warden of Artrosia.


Mystery solved. Previously I thought the advanced simple template was +4 to all base stats only. Thank you.


Started playing this an have some issues I would like to get some opinions on (but will use separate posts)

Experience deficit -

The book recommends that the party by level 8 by the time they enter Artrosa.
Now through a combination of newly introduced characters and the party increasing to 6 players, my group are going to be a long way short of this

I have calculated the encounters up to Artrosa and even the 3 who have played every session are going to be about 5000 short (the others 12000)

I am at a loss to workout how to fit in that much XP without dozens of encounters

Add in that I don't think my players will appreciate what will amount to a whole session hacking and slashing through things to grind up xp.

Easy solution is obviously just to level them up as required. But that seems a little unfair on the players who have always been around

My questions boil down to:

1. Has anyone got a way I can award chunks of XP without lots of combats. Non-combat methods could be interesting (however almost all the party are dreadfully built for social interactions - and have suffered for it so far!)

2. If it does end up being best to level up based on book recommendations can anyone think of a reasonable way to reward players who actually turn up to the games over those who no show?

Thanks for any help


My other MMC point is about the dungeons and is based on a concern I read on this board the other day (but I cannot remember if it was in this post or another)

That point being how deadly Artrosa is - especially as it is combat after combat.

I have looked through and am trying to work out whether this really is necessary. I would appreciate any input of the various rooms (especially from anyone who has played through)

Maiden

Spoiler:
C1 - I am not certain why the Ettin should attack the group as soon as they enter. It is annoyed that it didn't question the last group passing more closely. Why would it not question the PCs (with a naturally more suspicious / unfriendly disposition)

---> This is a change I am strongly considering making

C2 and C3 - Followers of Vselvold : I cannot imagine any circumstance where this would not be combat (especially the demons).

C4 - Satyr and tendriculous. I may need to find a way of powering this encounter up if my full party of six attends this.
In this instance I am not convinced why the Satyr would think he could take on 6 people (even with his monstrous aid).

The flip side is that the more foes, the more sacrifices for his target...

I can't help but wonder if there is scope for a more nefarious group to offer to help him though....(but there doesn't seem to be an easy way for them to work out his aims)

C5 - Good potential for no combat at least at this stage unless the party make some interesting RP decisions

C6 - Jadrenka - I struggle here and with all of the scripted Jadrenka meetings. They all end with her disappearing and leaving the PCs with something nasty to deal with. To me this just seems like it will make the PCs view her as an enemy.

C7 - Trap

C8 - Lurkers in the Light - It is not clear to me exactly why there is a light fountain but I can go with it. Seems like a pure combat room though

C9 - Trap

C10 - Nymph - doesn't seem like any scope for talking here!

Mother

Spoiler:
D1 - Another Jadrenka encounter with disguised foes (mentioned above)

D2 - Marislova - It seems impossible not to start to turn Jadrenka against you due to this room (even simply entering). And I imagine most groups will either free or kill Marislova which seriously damages their chances in the dungeons. How have people played this out?

D3 = Vsevolod forces - combat unavoidable

D4-D5 : More seemingly unavoidable combats

D6 = Trap

D7 - definite enemies

D8 - Upasunda. I don't really understand how this fits in this dungeon? What are people's thoughts?

D9: Another confusing one. It seems like you can avoid combat if the PCs are discussing Baba Yaga or the Black Rider. Now I cannot think why the PCs would be casually chatting about Baba Yaga by this stage in the dungeon. Seems like a frustrating potential alliance that most groups will never realistically be able to utilize

Crone

Spoiler:
For the Crone it seems like every room is just a straight out fight (especially as it has stuff like shadows)

My one point of interest is the Prisoner guard and his zombies. If he is the guard why is he so far from the cells. It is a bit confusing

Sorry for the very long and rambling post ( was easiest way to highlight some of my points).
I am looking for ways of preventing this dungeon being a very deadly grind through rooms that could bore and/or frustrate players

Any tips would be appreciated!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

You could add another battle with Frost Giants... or for that matter, an encounter with some of Queen Elvanna's witches and ice troll allies showing up to take Artosa for Elvanna. This could also include some defensive magic to help improve the survivability of the newer players (a couple cloaks of defense +2 and rings of protection +2).

I'd actually suggest having an encounter with Elvanna supporters, as it helps create more of a sense of continuity with the previous AP, and also continues the feel of warding off Elvanna's world domination ploy rather than a "collect the plot coupon to go to the next castle" quest.


Thanks! I was already penciling that in (not least because a player wants to change character to a Baba Yaga supporter from Irrisen and I was going to make him sneak to Iobaria with a group of Elvanna supporters)

I was also planning on adding some encounters with Vsevolod's centaurs in the forest to introduce his name / presence into the equation earlier

Still leaves me very short on XP (unless the groups of Irriseni / centaurs are very large)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

What point are you at, by the way? Have they left the Hut yet? Because you could go a couple more rounds of Frost Giant attacks before the Hut attacks and triple or quadruple the XP bonus for that (especially if they drop several giants). Seeing it's one giant a round, it might not overpower them too quickly.

There are some random encounter charts at the back of the book (p. 81). You could look into those. A couple ideas include the Tsolniva Outriders (Tsolniva centaurs who are hiding in the woods and attack anyone who comes across them) or an encounter with the white dragon Thragandor. (Also, don't forget: You can have an encounter flee, and they would still get XPs for it.)


They got to the centaurs in the last session and spectacularly failed on diplomacy both with the scouts and leader - made everyone hostile.

Unfortunately my group had only one pc with diplomacy (or indeed a charisma over 10) after one of the paladins died. And that pc could not speak the right languages.

I think I played it out badly in that I didn't make the hostile centaurs immediately attack. Therefore the rogue pre-empted and attacked first (because the character is useless if it doesn't get sneak)

The paladin was not cool with that (and neither where the rest of the party ) so they surrendered to the centaurs and chained up the rogue.
Went to korak and blew the diplomacy making him hostile too. They were ejected from the camp (with the guide to lead them away), ans I ended the session throughly confused about how to move forward

It all went pear shaped due a very one dimensional part structure (and a return to the good old days of everyone dumping charisma) :-(


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Hmm. Actually, that opens up some opportunities. For instance, the dragon Thragandor. If the dragon is seen heading toward an encampment and the centaur guide urges them to stop it... and they do go after it, this allows a reboot of the diplomatic situation with the centaurs. After all, they did drive off (or kill) a dragon that was threatening the centaurs.

Small question: is the Paladin one of the people close to leveling? If so, I'd drop a hint to the player to put a point in Linguistics and also suggest the Feat Cosmopolitan for its two languages. And then perhaps let them level up early - keep them at the lower XPs, but allow them to be 8th level despite the lower XPs.

One other thing to consider is this: the inclusion of two extra players may lessen the threat of not being 8th level. The game is designed for four 15-point built characters. You have six. A good example concerning this is the free module "Dawn of the Scarlet Sun" which is meant for six players of 5th level. It suggests if you only have four players to have them be 6th level. So the group may end up being able to cope better than you think. (Still, giving them a couple encounters to bring them CLOSE to level 8 won't hurt.)


The paladin actually wants to swap out his character because he us fed up of playing the good guy (i know but I think the centaur thing hammered home the restrictions to him in a less than positive way. That and there were originally 2 paladins so he had back up)

My concern is the deadliness of atrosa when combined with my players competence levels. Included in the group is someone playing for the first time (rannger) and two wizards who want to be sorcerors (both seem to only take magic missile and blasty fire spells)
One of the new characters is likely to be a really creepy bard who will not be up to a great deal in combat but would in theory be great rp material (especially with all the oddness in the dungeon)

Oh and both wizards are so staggeringly cowardly you would think they were commoners who would die in one hit.
Both were killed and saved by hero points against logrivich . So if the guide mentions another white Dragon then I imagine they will run as fast as possible in the opposite direction :-(


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Hmm. Yeah, I know a chap who was rather frustrated at a fellow player who wanted a blaster-wizard instead of considering how versatile wizards can be (and how beneficial Buffs can be).

What is the Bard's build like? First, never underestimate the power of the Bardic Song! ;) If he's a straight bard, then he's giving a +2 to everyone's to-hit and to-damage with Bardic song. That can be quite handy! Also, Bards tend to do well with Buffs as well, so that creepy bard may end up being the power broker of the group with the ability to ensure everyone else's survival.

Let's see. You've got a Paladin (who may be going away), a Ranger, two Wizards, and a Bard. And an unknown sixth class. ^^;;

I'd assume the Ranger probably is a ranged tactician? (What favored enemies? If he's anti-Fae or anti-Giant, that'll benefit him. Also, did he go with Companion-buffs, or animal companion?)

If the Paladin does end up dropping, suggest to him to build a Diplomat-style character. There are a couple useful classes for diplomats, and they don't have to be goody-two-shoes. Oracles are Charisma-heavy and can be quite handy to have around. For that matter, a simple Fighter can be an effective Diplomat - all the extra Combat Feats means he can take Skill Focus and feats like Alertness or Persuasive and become an effective face for the group.


If I were you, I would follow your instincts and aggressively change the encounters. Every GM has a different party with different interests, goals, and playstyles.

I took out the Upasunda and replaced it with a monster tied with one of my PC's backstories.

My party hasn't met Marislova yet. I plan on making Marislova's top priority making amends with Jadrenka as opposed to simply leaving. I feel Artrosa is dungeon-crawly enough that Marislova's encounter should be a nice change of pace.

Also, if your party doesn't use longswords, I would change the ghost-touch weapons in the tomb to be weapons your martials actually use. Otherwise, the witchfire and shadows get quite deadly, especially when your party has two low-Str wizards. (I changed one of mine to a longbow)

As for Nostafa, my party actually managed to avoid the battle. I had Nostafa exchange a few words before she attacks, but one of my PCs mentioned Baba Yaga in her reply, which led to Nostafa questioning the PCs and realizing they are not her enemies.


Six 8th level characters are probably more than 50% tougher than four 8th level characters, so... you may not have to have them be 8th level. Six 7th level characters should be able to handle it, I would think.


I'm thinking of fleshing out vsevolod's backstory to the pcs through some pre artrosa encounters.

I don't want him to merely be someone they hear about once they get to the dungeon and then kill.

With that in mind I am going to I include some of his outriders and potentially even a junior cleric (probably no more giants though as they are quite tough). I assume his followers would either be centaur , giants or demons (can't think of much else that makes the cut)

I'm also thinking of adding his sister as a centaur with some class levels (barbarian I guess) and some templates to represent what happened to her - going with ravenous and broken soul.
Could be quite nasty especially as ravenous grants fast healing 10 to a creature that has beencannibal in the last day (although I feel the pc's should indirectly / unknowingly have a chance to prevent this...)


I have one more question. What exactly is Vsevolod doing at the Eon Pit? My understanding is that he's here to sack Artrosa of Baba Yaga's secrets, therefore he's also looking for the key to the Dancing Hut.

So is Vsevolod just walking around the pit staring down into the darkness biding his time? What exactly is the reason that keeps Vsevolod busy at the Eon Pit? I mean, the centaur barred the iron doors for a reason right?


It would appear that he was performing the ritual to sacrifice the giants to gain the power from his patron to take artrosa

And I guess he is then waiting fir jadrenka to work out what has happened and rush to the defence ...


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What Vsevolod's hoping to accomplish beyond taking Artrosia for Kotschtchie isn't really spelled out anywhere.

My little background additions I'm making for my game (where I'm making Vsevolod mythic) -

1) Kotschtchie is native to Golarion, and has a deep bond to his place of origin. Deep enough that he could've torn open an abyssal rift and created his own worldworld.

2) Baba Yaga recognized the threat and as a massive "screw you" to the Deathless Frost erected Artrosia on top of his birthplace, where it acts as a seal against Kotschtchie.

3) Kotschtchie needs to overcome Artrosia before he can try to reclaim his homeland. Baba Yaga's out of the picture, so he's sent a local elite force - Vsevolod and his cult - to take Artrosia under the radar. Kotschtchie's holding back because he doesn't want to alert various other powers of what he's about to do.

4) Vsevolod's goal is to subvert the Eon Pit, which may be the heart of Artrosia. He's setting up the ritual while his allies guard him. He may need the Warden to die before it can be completed, but that'll be easy enough to arrange once he's set up.


Is the purpose of Artrosa and it's residents spelled out anywhere?
How often does Baba Yaga visit. Because I thought she visited Golarion once a century (or is that just Irrisen?)

Because she has taught Jadrenka who I believe is younger than a century

I am struggling with working out why/how the current residents came to be there. And how they were the ones picked...

As I mention above I am considering replacing some but I can't really get a handle on what to replace them with without an idea of why the current ones are there.
I don't want to add more of vsevolod's followers in their place as there are some places he would not have gone.

Does anyone have any ideas about the population?
And also what sort of other minions Baba Yaga may have / choose to place there. It would seem like corrupted fey are a good shout...?


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Artrosia was established to watch for and ward against Kotschtchie's return to his homeland.

Baba Yaga visits it rarely, but more often than Irrisen. She came by to drop off the keys and the bottled message before going off to Earth.

Most of the residents have a brief description explaining why they're there; they're a mix of willing servants (like the hags) and fools who made bad bargains (like the corrupted nymph). Nearly everything in the place is immortal, as best I can tell.

Jadrenka's age is "several hundred years" old. She's the 11th and presumably longest serving warden, since Artrosia predates Irrisen by a few centuries at least.


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Tangent101 wrote:

As for Marislova, her wanting to leave at all costs seems... contrived. It's meant to turn Jadrenka against the party. But considering Marislova is still in love with Jadrenka... then I suspect the moment she learns Jadrenka is in danger, she may switch motives and instead want to save her love. And this could even be how she "proves" she is faithful.

Though there is an alternative: Marislova as a replacement PC. After all, it's a dangerous land. Traveling alone could be fatal. And there is no guarantee of escaping Jadrenka. But traveling with the group? Safety in numbers and allies all in one. ;)

Honestly, I always felt that Marislova's wanting to leave at all costs makes sense.

I mean, it's just my personal interpretation, but Jadrenka doesn't seem to be what you'd call a sane individual - I certainly wouldn't expect her to be, what with having been raised from birth by her hag mother and having spent centuries living with the paranoid knowledge that if she *ever* fails in her duties, her mom gets to take her place *and* turn Jadrenka into a hag herself. By the time the party finds her, Marislova has to be feeling that Jadrenka's lost it, especially with how she's treating Marislova.

Even beyond the fact that Marislova is under severe emotional distress from Jadrenka's refusal to listen to reason and "tests" of her faithfulness, the relationship is frankly rather one-sided.

I mean, Maris fell in love with Jadrenka, despite the fact she was not only a changeling (which lore tells us are seen as inherently creepy in-universe by their very nature), but also one who had absolutely no clue about how to act around people, since, like the Iconic Witch, she was raised by hags. Maris didn't let the fact he'd have to move into Artrosa to be with her stop his feelings, even though this meant he'd be moving into a dungeon full of evil Fey, one of whom is his new stepmother (i.e: a crazy, evil, malicious, cruel, powerful spell-casting crone with a taste for humanoid flesh), out in the middle of nowhere. Even when Artrosa began inflicting him with gender dysphoria, he could have cut and run, but he chose to stay, embrace her womanhood and become Marislova, all to be with Jadrenka.

And how does Jadrenka thank her for all these years of love, faith and devotion? By believing Kyrisjana when she claims Marislova and her have been having an affair - one would think that one wouldn't *need* Int 21 and Wis 14 to realize that maybe trusting the half-succubus Chaotic Evil nymph isn't a very smart idea, especially when it comes to the faithfulness of your ever-sacrificing lover - and imprisoning Marislova, subjecting her to psychological/emotional abuse by continually forcing her to take cruel "tests" to prove her innocence, but never accepting that Marislova is innocent.

So, yeah. I honestly don't blame Marislova for wanting to bug the frak out of Artrosa if she's convinced the PCs can get her out of there.


I'm still in the market for an alternate Witch Tree riddle. Does anybody have any ideas? I'm thinking some sort of riddle based on the keys the players used to get to Artrosa (lock of hair from a frost giant's beard, plague doctor's mask).


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Where might i find the Crone Golem?
i know its not actually in the adventure but i'm rather curious as to what they look like and their stats and CR and all:)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

so, no one knows where the Crone golem is from then?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

an internet search was no help at all


captain yesterday wrote:
so, no one knows where the Crone golem is from then?

I haven't read through everything in the module yet and have not come across it, where is the crone golem?

Paizo Employee Senior Developer

captain yesterday wrote:

Where might i find the Crone Golem?

i know its not actually in the adventure but i'm rather curious as to what they look like and their stats and CR and all:)

It doesn't exist - all that's left are its shattered remains. That's why the crone golem was called out as a "unique" construct. Baba Yaga only created one, and it was destroyed before the PCs got there. So if you want a working crone golem, you'll have to come up with its stats yourself!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Rob McCreary wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:

Where might i find the Crone Golem?

i know its not actually in the adventure but i'm rather curious as to what they look like and their stats and CR and all:)
It doesn't exist - all that's left are its shattered remains. That's why the crone golem was called out as a "unique" construct. Baba Yaga only created one, and it was destroyed before the PCs got there. So if you want a working crone golem, you'll have to come up with its stats yourself!

Thats cool:) i thought it might've been from Tome of Horrors or a Wayfinder and might've been cut for space purposes.

mostly just curiosity was why i asked:)


I have only just realised that Jadrenka could give the party a really bad day if they get into a fight with her. I didn't realise some of her spells had a pretty much permanent effect.

Could be constructively a tpk, hamstringing the party what with baleful polymorph , feeblemind and major curse (which the tactics recommend she use)

I admit I wouldn't expect any thing else from an advanced character 3 levels higher than the group.
But with no cleric (for what good it would do) a encounter with her could effectively end the game with there not being facilities (or resources available) to remove the effects...

With this in mind I wonder if the adventure :
a) does enough to discourage conflict with her
b) makes her get hostile too easily..

What are people's thoughts?


Jadrenka could also get squashed in a round. Witches have lousy defenses.

Diplomacy with Jadrenka's relatively easily, right until Marislova gets involved.

Marislova is where it can fall to pieces very abruptly since she (a) doesn't trust Marislova but (b) gets really mad if the party killed Marislova (who is hostile by default).

My party had explored all of the Maiden, most of the Crone, and just started the Mother; they haven't even approached Jadrenka and Marislova's quarters yet. This is a weird and winding dungeon.


Started running this today.

I am really concerned about the alternate routes that can be taken. My group went through to the satyr and he surrendered to them. He told them the hag quarters were in the next room so the group back off and headed into the crypt in the mother (they still think they are in the maiden).
Game finished after witchfire.

I am worried they will take the path without the door head through the crone and then take the nearest door to the penultimate room and get to the eon pit really early (and potentially get squished unless the dice really go their way)

The unpredictable nature of the dungeon makes it even more lethal than usual!

As an aside if they were to somehow win doesn't the dungeon then end leaving them behind track on xp unless they decide to clean the rooms out (which I don't see myself!)


Lanathar wrote:

I have only just realised that Jadrenka could give the party a really bad day if they get into a fight with her. I didn't realise some of her spells had a pretty much permanent effect.

...
What are people's thoughts?

One of my PCs got Major Curse'd on his primary stat by Jadrenka. The PCs talked their way out of getting hit by other spells.

Said PC cured the Major Curse through the healing cauldron with the Mihstu. The Cauldron is CL 20, and can remove Jadrenka's curse easily.


I have a couple of questions. One is connected to my point above about PCs potentially (inadvertently) skipping the majority of the dungeon a getting to vsevolod early.

Would people alter this and have one or both of the frost giant allies alive and no svathurim?
Or if I was to keep it how it was and the PCs beaten and forced to retreat...what would then happen. Surely the two of them will not stay there until the PCs come back

I remember reading a review that criticised the static nature of events in this dungeon (but I am sure it is something most dungeons struggle with). It is something I would want to avoid

But what is Vsevolod actually doing? He summons his ally and is by the Eon Pit. Then what...? What is his next step. I think the book alludes somewhere what he is trying to achieve (cannot find is at the moment - but surely involves destroying artrosa). But it doesn't really clarify how.

Would he attempt to summon more followers of his god to take over the place? I am a little confused but want don't want to leave things static

My other question concerns the Eon pit. It says it has no effect on the Venerable. I assume it means if a venerable person was to enter. But if someone younger is aged to venerable they still get affected (as it specifically says you can die from this).

I note the characters do not have long. 2 rounds per a category gives them about 7 or 8 rounds.

The whole thing would be crippling for martial characters. And as I think I have referred to before, I don't think the nature / danger of the pit is ever even hinted at to the PCs before they reach it....

Have many people played through this yet? How devastating is this dungeon to the group - even if they survive. It strikes me that after all the curses most people would rather their characters die (no matter how much they like them) and replaced just to have more functional characters...


I am trying to do a hex grid exploration map similar to Kingmaker for the Dzveda Marshes. Any good idea for quests around this area ?


What is the 14 being referenced in the witch tree's riddle?

Quote:

the witch tree recites the

following riddle:

Midnight, Morning, Bright Sun—
Spoke thee with but one.
Accursed now you be,
For he befell the wrath
Of two times seven.
Oh tell me, who is he?


Elvanna. 14th queen of irrisen


Here is the riddle I used.

A lock with no key, yet I allowed freedom.
A beak with no wings, yet I allowed flight.
What were we?


Lanathar wrote:

I have a couple of questions... skipping the majority of the dungeon...

But what is Vsevolod actually doing?...
...I don't think the nature / danger of the pit is ever even hinted at to the PCs before they reach it....
Have many people played through this yet? How devastating is this dungeon to the group...

I GM'd this AP. At the time of this post, my party is near the end of Book 4.

When I ran this, I kept a lot of the dungeon as-is. I swapped a number of the rooms with encounters that are specific to PC backstory.

The dungeon has a ton of locked rooms. When my PCs tried to physically bust down a door, I had Jadrenka teleport in and confront them. After that, my PCs actively seeked unlocked rooms before they tried to pick / knock locked rooms. Because of this and coincidence, my PCs reached the Eon Pit literally last.

I knew that it was possible for the PCs to 'accidentally' wander into the Eon Pit early. If I thought my PCs were underpowered for the Eon Pit, I would have swapped rooms without telling my PCs. Fortunately, my PCs probably could have taken the Eon Pit encounter even if they wandered into the Eon Pit early (which they did not).

Instead, my PCs were very strong and rules-savvy. I had a group of misogyny demons teleport in to help Vsevolod.

As for what exactly Vsevolod is doing, I don't really know, even from reading the AP. But Zhangar's posts above are good explanations for what he might be doing.

Eon Pit: My PCs received advance knowledge of the Eon Pit's powers through the Night Hag. A caster PC fell down to the bottom of the Pit (to reduce time spent in Pit), picked up the Key, and flew out. Said PC didn't make all the Eon Pit saves, and said player really wanted to keep playing the PC. Fortunately, one of my PCs has a Time Patron, so through essentially gm fiat that was aligned with PC backstory, I restored the PC's age.


How did you play out the night hag?
It says she will attack unless she overheard the pcs discussing their task.

Did your group really happen to be having the appropriate in character conversation whilst walking through her room?

Because (despite me telling them) my group doesn't rp as much as I would like and tend to trudge through the dungeon not conversing with each other unless an npc has triggered an rp encounter :-(


Thanks for your tips, voideternal. They are very helpful.

I don't think any PC in their right mind would randomly discuss Baba Yaga while exploring empty rooms, precisely because you don't know who's watching. I plan to have Nostafa have "a feeling" about the PCs, and to be really upset about it. She doesn't kill them right away, and really wants to. Instead, she will invisibly ask something to the effect of "Why am I not killing you right now?"


Lanathar wrote:
How did you play out the night hag?

My group doesn't RP that much either. I wanted to leave the possibility for Nostafa's encounter to end in non-combat. Similar to flamethrower's suggestion, in my game Nostafa gave a threat and a warning to the PCs, something along the lines of, "Leave Artrosa now or I will kill you." To my surprise, one PC actually responded immediately claiming to be Baba Yaga's Rider, and the rest played out in RP.

If you are worried that the PCs will not have information about the Eon Pit, you could possibly give more NPCs knowledge about the Pit. Jadrenka would know for sure, and she might have confided in Marislova about the Pit in the past. The other permanent residents of Artrosa may have heard rumors about the Pit that they may sell for their lives. Even Vsevolod's followers might know of the Pit's capabilities recalling Vsevolod 'testing ' the pit by kicking a giant down and seeing what happens. It might require more effort, but you could also write an Iobarian warning or poem in the Eon Pit room hinting its danger and what lies within.

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