N S's page

Thank you both. These answers verify how I was reading the rules. Are there any other opinions? Or do others agree with Nefreet's and Mojorat's interpretations?

A multiattacking wolf gets two primary bite attacks, each at 1.5x Str.

Thank you. That is how I read it, as well. Do you have any suggestions about my other questions?

The rules are not at all clear about how the 9th level Animal Companion ability called Multiattack works for animals that have fewer than 3 natural attacks.

Here are the pertinent rules:

An animal companion gains Multiattack as a bonus feat if it has three or more natural attacks and does not already have that feat. If it does not have the requisite three or more natural attacks, the animal companion instead gains a second attack with its primary natural weapon, albeit at a –5 penalty.

Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type.

For the first few questions, assume the animal companion has exactly one natural attack (example, a wolf's bite attack).

1. The Multiattack ability grants a second attack with the animal companion's primary weapon, but at a -5 penalty. Is this second attack considered a "secondary" attack? According to the Universal Monster Rules (posted above), if a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack (implying that it might still be a primary attack, just at a penalty to hit).
2. How much strength damage does the wolf apply when making a single attack once it reaches 9th level? Since it now has two natural attacks, according to the rules, it would only deal 1 times strength bonus (making its single attack weaker than it was at 8th level). Someone posted a similar question, and the responses brought up iterative attacks, which is not relevant since natural attacks do not gain iterative attacks with a high BAB, and this is a special ability granting an additional attack.
3. If the answer to question #2 was that it deals 1-1/2 times strength damage on a single attack, how about on a full attack? Do the attacks both deal 1-1/2 times strength damage? If they are both primary attacks, would it be 1 times strength damage for both? Or would it be 1 times strength for the first attack and 1/2 strength for the second (if the second attack is considered secondary)?

For the next few questions, these are about creatures with exactly 2 natural attacks, such as the Baluchitherium and the Basilosaurus.

4. The Baluchitherium has two hoof attacks. If it gain a second attack with its primary weapon, is that a second set of two hoof attacks?
5. The Basilosaurus has two different primary natural attacks, a bite and a tail slap. Does the character choose which weapon can be used twice when gaining the ability or when making the additional attack? Or does it simply gain an additional bite attack (since that attack is listed first, so is the animal's "primary natural weapon")?
6. After gaining this "second attack" (I use quotes because it is poorly worded since the creatures both already had two attacks), it has enough attacks to qualify for the Multiattack feat. If the companion's intelligence is increased to 3 and it takes Multiattack as one of its feats, should this "second attack" now have only a -2 penalty (even if the "second attack" is considered a primary attack)?

Other animal companion questions:

7. If the answer to #2 was that the wolf deals 1-1/2 times strength damage on a single bite attack, even after reaching 9th level, then when another animal companion with more than one natural attack makes a single attack with only one weapon, does it deal 1-1/2 times strength damage?
8. An Elk lists its attack as a gore attack OR two hoof attacks. This means in a single round, it can make up to 2 natural attacks. At 9th level, does it gain the Multiattack feat or an additional attack? And which weapon is considered its "primary natural weapon"? While the gore attack is listed first, it seems its hooves are just as "primary". And when making a gore attack, how much strength damage should it apply?

I think those are all of my questions for this ability. I apologize for the length of this post.

So, does no one else understand the rules? Is anyone else interested in how they are supposed to work, or are people pretty much just houseruling whatever they want? Do most people think it is simple enough that it doesn't need clarification? I'm still really confused.

Ok, I have read it a few more times, and now I am more confused than before. The 3.5 SRD had everything that is now listed as "Requirements" as "Prerequisites". So, when the Pathfinder text refers to bypassing prerequisites, it seems to be referring to the "Requirements" as others have stated, but this is really not clear.

Additionally, a caster can create any item, so long as he meets the minimum caster level for the spells required for the item. But, if he is bypassing spells needed, what caster level does he need? I'm totally confused. It is possible for anyone of 3rd level to attempt to make any wondrous item, with or without the necessary spells, but likely, will just result in a cursed item? For instance, the Tome of Clear Thought +5. Some 3rd level wizard really wants one. He can't cast wish, so he can't create one. But, he decides to bypass wish, increasing the DC by 5. Is he now capable of attempting to make the Tome of Clear Thought +5? He will usually fail, obviously, because his spellcraft will not be high enough to come anywhere close to the DC 27 needed to succeed (5+17+5). How much would the item cost if he is bypassing the Wish spell? Would the 25,000gp material component cost be removed? I'm not sure it is in there in the first place... It seems like no material component is being used when the Wish spell is used for creating a wondrous item. The cost for the +1 tome is less than the cost of the diamond needed for Wish or Miracle itself...

This is getting even more confusing. Regardless, if we have this level 3 wizard who really wants to try to make the Tome of Clear Thought +5, the requirements that he is bypassing are the ability to cast wish. Since he no longer has a spell requirement, does the item have no minimum caster level anymore? Or does the minimum caster level remain 17, which is the minimum caster level required to cast wish, had he not ignored that prerequisite? If it is truly a DC 27, that is a rather easy DC to make for him. If it is Spellcraft, this wizard could make that DC with an 11 or better on a D20 roll (assuming the wizard I described above). That is a 50% chance of success and only a 30% chance of creating a cursed tome. There is only a 20% of complete failure. Are those odds acceptable? Should I be concerned about my 3rd level wizard attempting to create +5 tomes?

I just don't understand the rules at all. Could someone please break them down a little more clearly for me?

So, someone could make Sovereign Glue with CL 3, since Make Whole requires a minimum caster level of 3? Would that affect its price? It seems items are priced based on their caster level, so would you multiply the market price by 3/20 to get the new market price, or do you ignore that for wondrous items? (If it was multiplied by 3/20, then Sovereign Glue would only cost 360gp per vial...

There are two items I think you are missing.

One - In the PFRPG on page 98 it specifically states that selling player crafted magic items will only result at half the value of the list price. As stated this is clearly for game balance reasons, and in limited cases can be overruled by the DM for RP purposes. But as written it prevents the wealth machine you have detailed.

Two- I do not believe you can take 10 when there is a consequence for failure. And creating a cursed item is certain a bad consequence.

Overall I like the ability to have some flexibility in when and how you make an item. It allows for more fun in the game. The DM still has most of the control as he/she will control the level of gold in the game. Also the DM has control over how much free and uninterrupted time a player has to create items.

Keep in mind also that a player that is making items... and especially a player that is making items before meeting the requirements... is spending a lot of character resources in feats and skill points to be able to do so.

Finally, I love the mechanic of how and why cursed items can be in game. That makes the game and world feel a little more whole in its internal logic.

Those are good points, all, but don't really address the problem with NPCs and magic items. I think it is nice when the rules describe the setting. In this instance, there is definitely something missing. It could be as simple as saying that magic item supplies include supplies that are gathered by adventurers, and those are the really costly components. Since adventuring wizards are, well, adventurers, they come across those ingredients all the time! So, city-based magic item crafters actually have to purchase more expensive components which increases the magic item creation cost enough so that they are making a decent salary, but commensurate with the salaries surrounding them, yet when the wizard wants to make a magic item, he is spending half as much. That is entirely possible, and I'll probably use that when describing how the system doesn't break down. Still, from a flavor perspective, I would like to hear what the designers envision as the reason the NPCs don't break the economic system.

Edit: Additionally, I had not thought about the potential consequences. Actually, creating a cursed item is not necessarily a bad thing, especially for the 3rd level cleric attempting to create Sovereign Glue, who is actually trying to create a cursed item. But, I would have to say that the possibility of it failing and wasting the resources is a good reason why taking 10 would be unavailable.

Caster levels are not a prerequisite, unless they are specifically stated in the requirements section. The listed caster level is only the expected level for pre-made items the characters come across.

What makes you say that? Game balance? While I agree that is a good rule of thumb, the caster level listed is expressly described as the minimum caster level for an item. The term minimum is a term indicating a prerequisite. Nothing in the rules states that all prerequisites are going to be listed in the Requirements section. The closest we have is a rule that Item Creation feats cannot be bypassed, and these feats happen to be displayed in the Requirements section.

So, I agree that minimum caster level should not be able to be bypassed, but it is still a prerequisite that by the rules may be possible to be bypassed by simply increasing the DC by 5. I would just like clarification from the PF designers themselves as to what they intended. That, or change the name Requirements to Prerequisites. Or change the text to say that Requirements can be bypassed (instead of prerequisites).

Rereading it all again, perhaps the only requirements that can be ignored are the ones that are listed in the "Requirements" section of each magic item. This seems odd, though, as it seems that one could ignore the spells necessary for creating magic items. When the 17th level wizard decides to craft his Tome of Clear Thought +5, maybe he is allowed to ignore the requirement for Wish to be prepared. If this is the case, does he still need the 25,000gp diamond for it? I mean, increasing the spellcraft DC by 5 seems like a poor trade-off if the wizard no longer needs to be capable of casting Wish.

Actually, I just found something a bit worse. Let's take a 3rd level wizard. He says, I could use a Headband of Vast Intellect +6!!! The caster level is only 8!

He has a 20 Int (rolled 18, +2 from human), 3 ranks of Spellcraft, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), and Magical Aptitude. He then takes Craft Wondrous Item for his 3rd level feat.

Now, he has a +16 Spellcraft. His DC to make the headband: 5+8+5 = 18. He succeeds on a 2. The 18,000gp required is a little prohibitive, but if he starts off by making the Headband +2, selling it, making another, selling it, another, selling it, etc., he can work within his budget to never need to adventure, just spend a year making crappy items until he can afford to make the expensive ones. So, he eventually works up to the 18,000gp he needs and makes his Headband of Vast Intellect +6. Now, his spellcraft is +19. That's just dandy! A Headband of Mental Superiority has a minimum caster level of 16. If he wants to make that, he just needs to succeed on a DC 26 Spellcraft check. He succeeds on a 7 (and he may take 10 on Spellcraft checks).

Of course, I may just be reading this wrong. Still, it seems that after 3rd level, there is no reason for a spellcaster to ever go adventuring again! Hopefully some clarification on how this really works will come out, because the magic item creation guide really befuddled me in this regard.

And the more I think about it, the more I think that spellcasters would get giddy at the prospect of generating so much wealth from so little effort expended. What is to stop wise 4th level adepts from banding together to create inexpensive magic items of immense power? With basically the same feats I described for the wizard, the adepts are capable of generating physically enhancing wondrous items (Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, and Cat's Grace are all on their spell list, and with a 14 Wis or better, they have enough wisdom to gain a bonus 2nd level spell per day... odd how Fox's Cunning, Owl's Wisdom, and Eagle's Splendor are not). Anyway, the adept (with a 10 Int) could have 4 ranks in Spellcraft and the two feats mentioned above, giving each of them a +12 Spellcraft. If they had an 11 Wis to start, they can put their human +2 into Wis and put one more point at 4th level. 3rd level, they need Craft Wondrous Item, and voila! They are now nearly as capable at creating uber magic items as the 3rd level wizard with a 20 Int! To make Belts of Physical Perfection, they need to find a way to increase their spellcraft by 4, but the Belts of Physical Might are well within their reach. Two adepts per belt are needed to cast the requisite spell, but that is not terribly difficult. Especially considering the profits to me made!

So, now, all adepts just spend their time making easy-to-produce magic items well above their power level. True, these items will be easier to suppress with Dispel Magic checks than items created at their normal caster level, but when the fighter heads into town and sees these discount items, why would he ever bother with a properly-made one? How often is a caster going to think, "I should suppress the magic of his shoddily-made belt!" So, the cheap items become all the craze! Monsters are getting slain left and right by low-level parties. These parties are leveling-up like crazy! The low-level adepts keep making these belts, and before you know it, the market has dropped out! They flooded the market with their incredibly affordable belts. Now, they are being given away like last year's fruitcake. The guild of adepts is the new economic power in the campaign setting. Through the ensuing political maneuvering, several adepts gain a few levels, and now, they are busting out their Use Magic Device skills! Before you know it, they have every magic item you can think of available for purchase, ensuring their rise to the top!

This guild of adepts grows with each new magically inclined NPC that is born. Seeing their power waning, governments try to curb the power of the adepts, only to find their supply of magic items suddenly stop entirely. The guild has full control over magic in general. The king's wizards attempt to face off against these adepts, confident that their power is just as strong, but adept is an NPC class whereas wizard is a PC class. There are bound to be more NPC adepts than NPC wizards! The adepts easily overpower the wizards, conquering entire kingdoms, setting up NPCocracies where any PCs discovered are killed on the spot. There are no adventurers anymore. They have all been slaughtered. There are the adepts and the peasants. The adepts make magic items for each other when it suits their fancy, but other than that, they are content with their absolute power.

I have been reading up on the new item creation rules, and I must admit, I am a bit confused. Let me explain:

You have a 3rd level cleric with an Int of 10. For his 3rd level feat, he took Craft Wondrous Item. He places one rank in Spellcraft, which gives him a +4 bonus to Spellcraft.

Now, he is looking for wondrous items to create. He sees Sovereign Glue, and laughs. CL 20. But, the spell required is Make Whole... That is a 2nd level Cleric spell... According to the rules, so long as he is capable of casting the spell, he can attempt to craft the item, even though he doesn't meet the minimum caster level for the item itself.

So, he spends three days and 1,200gp worth of supplies. At the end, he makes a Spellcraft check to determine success. His DC is 5+minimum CL (+5 for each prerequisite he does not meet). So, his DC is 5+20+5 (because he does not meet the minimum caster level for the item). That is a DC 30 Spellcraft check. If he rolls a 20, he only gets a 24. He is guaranteed to fail by 5 or more, making Cursed Sovereign Glue.

Now, the Appraise check to determine the function of said cleric's work is 18 (15+CL = 15+3). The DC to determine that it is cursed is 28. A 3rd level character is likely to have at least a +8, and taking a 10 on the Appraise check with Detect Magic is likely to determine that it is Sovereign Glue (not detecting the Curse). Is this an effective way for clerics to dupe unsuspecting victims into purchasing cursed items? Any cleric of a God of Trickery should be making as much of this stuff as possible!!!

Next query... a 5th level Wizard who has taken Craft Magic Arms and Armor. According to the magic item creation, he needs a minimum caster level of 3x the bonus he intends to enchant (so a +1 needs a CL of 3 and a +2 needs a caster level of 6). Let's see what kind of Spellcraft we can get by 5th level:

Let's say we rolled well. We got an 18. We put that into Int, and chose Int for our human +2. As a human, we get 2 feats at 1st level+Scribe scroll. We choose Skill Focus: Spellcraft and Magical Aptitude. This gives us a Spellcraft of +18 before magic items (5 ranks, +5 Int, +3 Class skill bonus, +3 Skill Focus, +2 Magical Aptitude). With magic items, you can probably get a headband of int+2 by then for a +19, but that really isn't necessary.

Let's just look at magic weapons:

Our wizard decides he wants to create a +5 weapon. Should be impossible, because he is not 15th level. But, according to the overriding rule for magic item creation:

"Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory."

So, the only thing that is mandatory is the item creation feat. He doesn't need to meet the 15th level prerequisite, but just increase the Spellcraft DC by +5. So, what is his DC to create this +5 weapon? It is 5+CL+5 = 5+15+5 = 25. By taking a 10, our wizard gets a 28. He is guaranteed to succeed.

Now, you might say, that is rather prohibitive. Our 5th level wizard is going to have a problem finding the 25,000gp material components needed for crafting a +5 weapon. All the wizard needs to do is find someone looking for a +5 weapon. He doesn't need to adventure at all. Once he finds someone, he just has them pay the 50,000gp, and he begins toiling away. 100 days later, he has two +5 weapons made with guaranteed success! He sells the second one and now has 50,000gp of his own to do whatever he wants with. For 100 days of work, why would a wizard ever go adventuring again?

Oh, an interesting side-note, a 3rd level cleric who has taken Craft Wondrous Item can now make Sovereign Glue... I wonder if it has any diminished effect...

Anyway, according to the rules, the 3rd level cleric must succeed on a DC 30 Spellcraft check (Base 5, +20 from caster level, +5 from not meeting the caster level requirement). So, in general, the 3rd level cleric can make cursed sovereign glue... what does that do?

Our artificer doesn't stand a chance, as he must succeed on a DC 40 UMD check first, then a DC 30 Spellcraft check, so he doesn't even have the chance to make cursed sovereign glue.

I'm starting a short campaign using Pathfinder rules, and none of my players are using standard classes (artificer, spirit shaman, and warlock). Specifically, I'd like feedback on my 3.P version of the artificer:

Replace artificer knowledge with detect magic and read magic as at-will spell-like abilities.

Replace craft reserve with magical artisan (crafting costs are 75% normal).

20th-level captstone ability: Master Crafter: crafting costs are only 50%, and the artificer can take 20 on checks to make items in half the normal time.

What to people think?

So, let's build this artificer to see how he functions in comparison to his 3.5 version and in comparison to the PF wizard and the 3.5 Wizard:

Let's use the standard hero array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. The only stats we care about are Charisma and Intelligence. According to the Eberron Campaign Setting, Artificers don't rely on their Intelligence much, so that will be our third highest stat.

Cha: 15
Int: 13

With racial modifiers (let's take Human), we have Cha: 17, Int: 13

Putting a rank into Spellcraft and a rank into Use Magic Device, and taking the feat Skill Focus: Use Magic Device, we have a UMD skill of +10. If we take Magical Aptitude, we get a +2 to Spellcraft and Use Magic Device, which seems optimal. So, we have a UMD of +12 and a Spellcraft of +7. We can automatically succeed on the Spellcraft check with a roll of 1, so we have no worries there. The UMD requires a 9 on the die, and we get to roll twice per scroll. So, there is a near 80% chance of success on the scroll. Not bad. Assuming the artificer continues trying until he succeeds, here is the average total cost: 1.25 days, 11.76gp (I used the infinite geometric progression where each time he fails, he tries again, which converges fairly easily).

In 3.5, he would only have a +11 to UMD (because he wouldn't get the +2 bonus to Charisma that PF offers). Now, he only needs to succeed on the UMD DC 21 to create the scroll. We won't even worry about the spellcraft check. His odds for success are now only about 75% (still not bad). Once again, this converges easily. His average cost now is 1.33 days, 16.67gp, 1.33 XP (comes from his craft pool). That is an increase from PF to 3.5 of time and gold.

Now, the PF wizard would likely have the 17 in Int. This would give him +7 to Spellcraft without any feats to boost it. He automatically succeeds on his creation of the scroll, and it costs him 12.5gp.

The 3.5 wizard also requires 12.5gp and 1 XP, and automatically succeeds.

Seems to me than you have given the PF artificer a great way of making items far less expensively than ever before, albeit taking a little longer. I'm thinking the gp reduction is a bad idea, unless you really want your players to have 4/3 the amount of items they otherwise would have (as that is approximately what the math is showing).

For a variant idea of how to balance the artificer, what about increasing his HD, BAB, saves, or anything else that you might increase. His crafting ability seems secure as it is, even without the Craft Reserve and Retain Essence. After all, he is already better at it than his 3.5 counterpart just from the stat boost alone.

Other options for balancing the artificer might be to expand the concept. For example: Why should an artificer be limited only to magical items? The term artifice actually refers to a far more sinister concept of trickery and deception. Why not include that into the artificer to balance him out? Grant him abilities to infuse lies with magic? Make Bluff and Disguise class skills for him. Now, grant him the ability to spend gp to create webs of magical lies for political intrigue or mercantile prospects. These webs of magical lies grant him bonuses on Diplomacy, Intimidate, or any other skills that you deem appropriate. In fact, you could create an entire array of magical lies that could be crafted, each one granting different bonuses to the artificer in different situations, much like different magical items provide different effects in different situations. This benefit should not only balance the artificer nicely, but also provide additional depth to an otherwise nonsensical concept--why is a character with so much personality who uses Int as a secondary stat spending so much time toiling away studying his craft? This changes that. Instead, he is an incredibly social character, creating items and building massive webs of lies to aid in his magical endeavors.

The psychic warrior is the most tested class out of the core psionics stuff, for our group. It doesn't seem like much on paper, but the difference of

1) 3/4 BAB
2) D8 HD
3) PPP limits

really make a difference to how the psychic warrior and the fighter stand up next to each other. The psychic warrior can only keep up with the fighter as long as he has PPP. If he uses more power points than he needs to, he can eclipse the fighter with ease, but the cost of doing so is being able to keep up with the fighter for an even shorter length of time. +5 to hit over 20 levels is a fair amount - it's the difference between the fighter and the rogue (the cleric having numerous spells to help out in the manor of PPP).

One problem I know some groups encounter when using psionics is that the DM lets the players use psionics, but then they never add any psionic related challenges. To balance the classes properly, they need to be integrated into the *world*. This means psionic monsters and diseases too. There should be power-point-stealing-ghosts! A blue in every goblin tribe!...

Very cool! Even still, it is not the balance issue that I was interested in changing, but more the flavor. I am looking into different options, still undecided which direction to go:

1. Grant supernatural abilities, similar to how a monk gains supernatural abilities, but alter the flavor to give uniqueness. Currently, all abilities are extraordinary (from feats) or psionic (from powers).
2. Grant Mantles to the psychic warrior (from Complete Psion). These allow the psychic warrior to choose a path to follow, indicating how he trains his body and mind to act in unison.
3. Similar to the Mantles idea, break down a psychic warrior based on how he trains. Offer various training disciplines which grant different chains of abilities, similar to talents from D20 Modern.

Anyway, I'm still looking into how I want to build this. The 3.5 psychic warrior was left with many open levels, so I shouldn't have much trouble filling in the holes. Mostly, I feel that the psychic warrior in its 3.5 incarnation is nearly balanced with PF already (I run an Eberron game with lots of magic and psionics. The psionic characters do feel the effects of psionic maladies and enemies, as well as sorcerous ones. There are psionic items and challenges available, as well.) The base psychic warrior has been standing up well with the rest of the party, although lacks the flavor that PF has added to the rest of the classes. That is the main reason for my desire to redesign.

N S wrote:

the Unofficial Psionics Update for Pathfinder by tallforadwarf

I'm flattered you thought it good enough to 'alf inch! ;D Good work here, nice to see some more psionic love going on.

Peace,

tfad

Of course! Yours is the definitive work on psionics! I’m just modifying to add my own flavor! :D

I've played soulknife a cpuple times, so I adapted in this way:

B.A.B = good
saves: fort=poor; ref=good; will=good
take out the weapon focus and the greater weapon focus.
4 skill ranks per level(leave or consolidate the skill it have)
and change any aplication atained to bab

Definitely a good start, thank you! I have never tried a soulknife myself, so I am not particularly certain I will even make I conversion. I will likely use tallforadwarf’s conversion from his Unofficial Psionics Update for Pathfinder, at least until I see one in action, and then I can make a more educated determination if I want to modify it at all.

NS, this looks really, really good! I like the talents, you came up with! Paizo should definitly save this thread for reference when they're attempting to Paizo-fy psionics.

Thanks! Call to Hand is my favorite. Not particularly powerful, as it takes a standard action to manifest a psi-like ability and usually only a move action to actually draw an object that is already on your person, but still, just the flavor of having something appear in your hand really appeals to me :D

Next up, psychic warrior! tallforadwarf's version is probably excellent if you are not using a base fighter, but with the base fighter, I am reluctant to have a class that does everything that the fighter does, but does it better (with the exception, of course, for fighter-only feats). On the other hand, it seems more balanced with the other classes, so I get the feeling that even with additional benefit from armor and weapons, the PF fighter is still a bit weak.

Anyway, I'm looking to modify the psychic warrior with unique ability selection based on the idea that is supposed to be the basis of the class... merging mind with body. The base fighter focuses on special training to increase martial ability, but I want to try to create a martial class that represents a warrior who trains his mind to control his body. I see the psychic warrior as the center of the trifecta of fighter, monk, and psion. It already possesses the feats of the fighter and the powers of a psionic user. Now, all it needs are the supernatural capabilities from monk to guide its path. Of course, these supernatural abilities should not overlap, but add their own unique flavor. More to come on the specifics for this!

I agree that Wild Empathy could certainly use some clarification, especially considering the changes to Diplomacy. This is something I will look into.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Additionally, considering the changes to Bardic Knowledge, it seems that the general move is taking these obscure "additional" numbers and folding them back into skills. So, if you don't want to use something akin to bardic music, how about saying that Druids and Rangers gain an additional use for Handle Animal, where they can use the skill like a diplomacy check on animals. Furthermore, Druids and Rangers always have max ranks in Handle Animal (much like the bard always has max ranks in his chosen knowledge specialty). This way, rather than having Handle Animal and a separate ability that parallels Handle Animal, you just use Handle Animal.

Alternatively, if you decide to go the Bardic Music parallel, then I still suggest getting rid of this additional number so that it doesn't need to be tracked anymore.

Yet in the Old Testament it reads that you are not to let a witch live (or words to that effect). However, this was before the age of grace (before Christ) and was really addressing the Jewish people, who where under strict laws to keep themselves pure from other nations.

Actually, in the Old Testament, touching the dead is strictly forbidden. The only reason to ever touch a dead body is to move it such that it can be prepared for burial and then buried. In fact, while it has been many years since I have read it, I believe I recall that anyone touching a dead body was unclean for a certain period of time and unable to enter a city. I could be wrong on the specifics though. According to the Old Testament, simply touching a dead body is wrong. To a person of Jewish faith, every action has good and evil associations. There are no neutral actions.

Most of the cultural prejudices against dealing with the dead come from the Old Testament. If this is true in your campaign world, then it can be evil there. Otherwise, it is another world where the God of the Old Testament did not set the rules of Good vs. Evil. The DM did. As DM, your kobolds and dragons are completely within your realm of choosing good vs. evil actions for them.

Some guidelines need to be universally accepted so the paladin doesn't save the orphanage thinking that is a good deed only to find out that he just lost his powers because in this setting, the DM decided that it is a well known fact that orphanages are supposed to be burned to the ground. That would be something that the DM would need to let his players know up front. But, once it is known up front, that is how it is in the setting. From then on, in order to be a good character, they should look for orphanages to burn down. I realize that this is a rather silly example, but it goes to illustrate my point that it is entirely the DMs call. If your players don't like it, they can make their own worlds rely upon whatever moral systems they enjoy.

And in the end, it comes down to fun. If your players are not having fun with moral relativism, then either remove moral relativism or play with different people who have better imaginations.

I took a look at the other threads and decided that I was looking for something a little different from those attempts. I have created a psion as I hope will be effective. I deviated from the wizard to give the psion a little uniqueness while still keeping close enough to the wizard that the abilities should seem familiar. I have taken a lot of material from other sources, to include the PF Wizard, the Unofficial Psionics Update for Pathfinder by tallforadwarf, and the SRD. Here is what I came up with:

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d6

Class Skills: The psion’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Craft (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Profession (Wis), and Psicraft (Int). In addition, a psion gains access to additional class skills based on his discipline:

Seer (Clairsentience): A psion who chooses clairsentience is known as a seer. Seers can learn precognitive powers to aid their comrades in combat, as well as powers that permit them to gather information in many different ways.

• Appraise (Int)
  
• Diplomacy (Cha)
  
• Intimidate (Cha)
  
• Perception (Wis)
  
• Sense Motive (Wis)

Shaper (Metacreativity): A psion specializing in metacreativity is known as a shaper. This discipline includes powers that draw ectoplasm or matter from the Astral Plane, creating semisolid and solid items such as armor, weapons, or animated constructs to do battle at the shaper’s command.

• Bluff (Cha)
  
• Disguise (Cha)
  
• Perform (Cha)
  
• Use Psionic Device (Cha)

Kineticist (Psychokinesis): Psions who specialize in psychokinesis are known as kineticists. They are the masters of powers that manipulate and transform matter and energy. Kineticists can attack with devastating blasts of energy.

• Disable Device (Dex)
  
• Sleight of Hand (Dex)
  
• Intimidate (Cha)

Egoist (Psychometabolism): A psion who specializes in psychometabolism is known as an egoist. This discipline consists of powers that alter the psion’s psychobiology, or that of creatures near him. An egoist can both heal and transform himself into a fearsome fighter.

• Acrobatics (Dex)
  
• Autohypnosis (Wis)
  
• Climb (Str)
  
• Escape Artist (Dex)
  
• Heal (Wis)
  
• Stealth (Dex)
  
• Swim (Str)

Nomad (Psychoportation): A psion who relies on psychoportation powers is known as a nomad. Nomads can wield powers that propel or displace objects in space or time.

• Fly (Dex)
  
• Ride (Dex)
  
• Sleight of Hand (Dex)
  
• Survival (Wis)
  
• Swim (Str)

Telepath (Telepathy): A psion who chooses the discipline of telepathy is known as a telepath. He is the master of powers that allow mental contact and control of other sentient creatures. A telepath can deceive or destroy the minds of his enemies with ease.

• Bluff (Cha)
  
• Diplomacy (Cha)
  
• Handle Animal (Cha)
  
• Intimidate (Cha)
  
• Sense Motive (Wis)

Skill Points Per Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Bonus Feats: At 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level, a psion gains a bonus feat. This feat must be a psionic feat, a metapsionic feat, or a psionic item creation feat. The psion must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including manifester level minimums. These bonus feats are in addition to the feats that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. The psion is not limited to the categories of psionic feats, metapsionic feats, or psionic item creation feats when choosing those feats.

Psionic Talent: Psions are capable of producing minor psionic effects at will. Each day, a psion may attune his mind to three different minor psionic abilities chosen from the following list. Once chosen, the three abilities may be used at will as psi-like abilities.

• Call to Hand
  Psychoportation (Teleportation)
  One non-magical, non-psionic object on your person materializes in your hand.
  
• Demoralize, Lesser*
  Telepathy (Mind-affecting)
  As Demoralize, but duration is 1 round
  
• Far Strike
  Psychokinesis
  Telekinetic strike deals 1d3 damage (30' range) (Bludgeoning, Slashing, or Piercing damage, chosen when this power is prepared for the day)
  
• Finger of Energy
  Metacreativity
  Deal 1d3 energy damage as ranged touch attack (30' range) (Energy type must be chosen when this power is prepared for the day)
  
• Mental Hammer
  Psychokinesis
  Deal 1d3 force damage as ranged touch (30' range)
  
• Sense Psionics
  Clairsentience
  As Detect Psionics, but 10' emenation. Only tells if psionics are present, nothing else.
  
• Verve
  Psychometabolism
  As Vigor, but only 1 temp hp

*The difficulty class for saving throws against this ability is 10+the Psion's Intelligence modifier.

Discipline Specialization: Psions choose one discipline for their mental focus. Due to their focus, they gain a number of abilities based on the discipline chosen. In addition, each discipline grants the psion a bonus ability.

Clairsentience
Bonus: You can always act in the surprise round, but you are still considered f lat-footed until you take an action.
Specialty Power: Choose one of the following abilities:

• Seer’s Fortune (Su): You can touch a creature as a standard action, giving it an enhancement bonus to a single attack roll, skill check, ability check, or saving throw equal to your manifester level. This bonus lasts 3 rounds or until used. You must expend your psionic focus to grant this ability.
  
• Remote Viewing Adept (Su): You are always aware when you are being observed via psionics, as if you had a permanent Detect Remote Viewing. In addition, beginning at 8th level, whenever you manifest Remote Viewing on a subject, treat the subject as one step more familiar to you. Very familiar subjects get a –10 penalty on their save to avoid your viewing attempts. If you expend your psionic focus when manifesting this power, you do not need a focusing crystal.
  
• Destiny's Scribe (Su): At key moments (as determined appropriate by the DM), your character is struck by prophecy. The prophecy may take on any form, although some popular choices might be a cryptic phrase, a symbol representing a greater concept, or a mental image. The specificity of the prophecy revealed is completely at the discretion of the DM. This option should only be available in a game for which the DM approves this ability. (Note to DMs: This option is particularly time consuming, as it requires forethought into what Prophecy to reveal and how to describe such obscure information that the player will find it both useful and interesting).

Metacreativity
Bonus: You gain a +2 armor bonus to your Armor Class. This bonus increases by +1 for every 5 manifester levels you possess, to a maximum of +6 at 20th level.
Specialty Power: Choose one of the following abilities:

• Ectoplasmic Construction (Su): As a standard action, you can shape a mass of ectoplasmic material targeting any foe within 30 feet as a ranged touch attack. Choose a weapon damage type (bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing). The mass deals 1d4 damage of the chosen type +1 for every two manifester levels you possess.
  
• Sculptor’s Imagination (Su): Any astral constructs you shape gain a +4 enhancement bonus to strength and dexterity. At 8th level this bonus increases to +6.
  
• Sculptor’s Tools (Su): Fashion up to a total of your intelligence modifier x 10 gold pieces worth of mundane equipment. The Psion can choose to create any mundane weapons, armor or equipment out of raw ectoplasm, in the same manor by which they create Astral Constructs. If a Psion shapes a weapon or piece of armor they are not proficient with, they must succeed at a DC20 appropriate Craft check or the item gains the Broken
  condition. Alchemical, magical, and psionic items cannot be made with this ability. Items created in this way only exist for a number of rounds equal to your manifester level before they dissipate. Using this ability is a full round action that provokes an attack of opportunity.

Psychokinesis
Bonus: Whenever you manifest a psychokinesis power that deals damage, it deals +1 damage. This bonus only applies once to a power, not once per missile or ray. This damage is of the same type as the spell. This bonus increases by +1 for every 5 manifester levels you possess, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.
Specialty Power: Choose one of the following abilities:

• Telekinetic Fist (Su): As a standard action, you can strike with a telekinetic fist targeting any foe within 30 feet as a ranged touch attack. The telekinetic fist deals 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage +1 for every two manifester levels you possess (this is a supernatural ability and does not benefit from extra damage from the psychokinesis bonus).
  
• Flow of Energy (Su): As a standard action, you can generate a ray of energy that you can shoot at a target within 30'. Choose an energy type (Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, or Sonic). The ray deals 1d6 damage of the chosen type +1 damage for every two manifester levels you possess (this is a supernatural ability and does not benefit from extra damage from the psychokinesis bonus).
  
• Energy Absorption (Su): You gain an amount of energy absorption equal to 3 times your Psion level per day. Whenever you take energy damage, apply resistance and immunity first and apply the rest to this absorption, reducing your daily total by that amount. Any damage in excess of your absorption is applied to you normally.

Psychometabolism
Bonus: Expend psionic focus to gain a +2 insight bonus to any skill or ability check. This bonus increases by +1 for every 5 manifester levels to a maximum of +6 at 20th level.
Specialty Power: Choose one of the following abilities:

• Change Shape (Su): You can change your shape for a number of rounds per day equal to your manifester level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive. This ability otherwise functions as the spells Beast Shape II or Elemental Body I.
  
• Spurn Sleep (Su): You no longer need to sleep. Once per day, you may spend a power point to regain hit points and ability points as though you had rested for a full eight hours. Even thought the egoist need not sleep, this ability does not grant the egoist the ability to regain power points without eight hours of restful calm.
  
• Might of the Mind (Su): You can add your manifester level as an enhancement bonus to any physical ability score for a number of rounds per day equal to your manifester level. This bonus only applies on ability checks and skill checks related to the selected ability score. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.

Psychoportation
Bonus: Gain +10 ft. to all movement speeds you possess.
Specialty Power: Choose one of the following abilities:

• Dimensional Hop (Su): By expending your psionic focus, you can teleport up to 5 feet per manifester level as a swift action. Movement via this method of teleportation does not provoke attacks of opportunity. You can bring other willing creatures with you, but you must expend an equal amount of distance for each creature brought with you (Large or Larger creatures count double for this computation).
  
• Float (Su): By expending your psionic focus, your feet float up from the ground for a number of rounds equal to your manifester level. You can float up to 1’ in the air, above any solid or liquid surface. While floating you may take any normal actions, such as attacking, manifesting a power etc. You may float at your normal speed, including any enhancements from race, class, items etc. and take special move actions as normal, e.g. run, charge etc. You cannot float higher than 1’ above the ground with this ability. Even in places where psionic effects do not normally function, you can attempt to float by making a DC 20 Will save. On a successful save this ability works normally. In addition, being used to floating and gliding gives you a +1 bonus to all Fly skill checks +1 per five manifester levels (to a maximum of +5 at 20th level).
  
• Summon Object (Su): By expending your psionic focus, you may summon any object within sight to your hand. The object receives a Will saving throw with a DC equal to 10+½ manifester level+the Psion's Charisma modifier to avoid being called. Non-magical, non-psionic, unattended objects receive no saving throw. Held or worn objects receive a bonus to their saving throw equal to the holder's CMB.

Telepathy
Bonus: You have a +2 bonus to saving throws versus mind-affecting powers. This bonus increases by +1 for every five manifester levels to a maximum of +6 at 20th level.
Specialty Power: Choose one of the following abilities:

• Dazing Touch (Su): By expending your psionic focus, you can cause a living creature to become dazed as a melee touch attack. This ability has no effect on creatures of a higher level or with more Hit Dice than your manifester level. The target receives a Will saving throw against this power with a DC equal to 10+½ manifester level+Charisma modifier to resist.
  
• Aura of Despair (Su): Expend your psionic focus to emit an aura of despair out to a range of 5 ft. per two manifester levels for a number of rounds equal to your manifester level. Enemies within this aura take a –1 penalty on attack rolls and will saves versus fear effects. At 8th level, this penalty becomes -2 and applies to all ability checks, attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and skill checks.
  
• Protect the Mind (Su): By expending your psionic focus, you gain Power Resistance 10+your manifester level versus Mind-affecting powers for a number of rounds equal to your manifester level.

Discipline Power: Choose an ability from the following list. Each ability may be selected multiple times unless noted otherwise.

• Free manifest: Choose a power you know within your chosen discipline. You may manifest that power once per day without paying any power points. You may augment the power as normal, but when doing so, you are treated as though you did expend power points as normal. Example: Your manifester level is seven. You manifest a power with a cost of three power points for free. You may not spend more than four power points to augment the power, even though the total cost would only appear to be four.
  
• Sudden metapsionics: Choose a metapsionic feat you possess. Once per day, you may augment a power within your discipline with the chosen metapsionic feat without expending any additional power points or your psionic focus.
  
• Free metapsionics: Choose a metapsionic feat you possess and a power you know within your discipline. Whenever you manifest that power, you may choose to expend your psionic focus. If you do, it gains the metapsionic feat you chose at no additional cost.
  
• Increased manifester level: Your manifester level is one higher while manifesting powers in your chosen discipline. This ability increases all effects that depend on manifester level as well as increases the number of power points you may spend on augmentation. This ability may be selected only once.

Discipline Mastery: At 20th level, the psion masters his discipline, gaining the relevant ability:

• Clairsentience - Near Omniscience (Su): You are never surprised and cannot be caught f lat-footed. You gain remote viewing as a psi-like ability usable at will, subjects get a –10 penalty on their save, regardless of how familiar they are to you. You can even use this ability to view areas protected from remote viewing, although the subjects get a +5 bonus on their save to resist.
  
• Metacreativity - Master Sculptor (Su): Once per day, you can manifest astral construct, extending its duration to 1 day. The construct summoned in this way has maximum hit points and you may select one additional Menu B or two additional Menu A abilities to add to the construct.
  
• Psychokinesis - Master of Manipulation (Su): You can use the Craft, Disable Device, and Sleight of Hand skills at a distance of up to 30 feet away. Additionally, you can use weapons at the same distance. You add your Intelligence bonus to attack and damage instead Strength or Dexterity. This requires a great deal of concentration, increasing the time necessary to complete each task. All skill DCs increase by 5 and all attacks are made at a -5 penalty. Additionally, the amount of time needed for each task increases by one step (a swift action uses a move action, a move action uses a standard, a standard action uses a full round, and durations longer than standard are simply doubled--example: disabling a tricky device usually requires 1d4 rounds. Performing this task at a distance requires 2d4 rounds.).
  
• Psychometabolism - Fluid Form (Su): As a swift action, you gain one of the following abilities: blindsense with a range of 30 feet, burrow with a speed of 30 feet, climb with a speed of 60 feet, darkvision with a range of 120 feet, f ly with a speed of 120 feet, gaseous form, or swim with a speed of 60 feet. You can only have one of these abilities at any one time, but you can change the ability as often as you like.
  
• Psychoportation - Wherever I May Roam (Su): Gain Greater Psionic Teleport as a psi-like ability, usable at will.
  
• Telepathy - Legendary Charm (Su): You can manifest psionic dominate 1/day with a duration of permanent and a target of any living creature. You can only have one such creature in your service at a time. If you cast this spell again, the first creature is immediately released.

Hello all,

I am running a 3.5 campaign, although thinking of switching the rules to those used for the PF system. The biggest concern I had when considering this is that my campaign is psionics-heavy, and PF currently does not offer support for psionic rules.

So, I am considering creating my own, and was wondering if any of the psionics gurus could help steer me in the right direction.

Here is what I came up with:

1. Spellcasting has remove all XP components from spells, instead requiring material components that cost 5x the amount in gp that had been required in XP previously. The problem is, psionics does not have material components. While I could theoretically keep the XP costs, it seems out of the spirit of PF to do so. The best idea I have come up with to do so is to add in a mechanic for focusing crystals or something. I can say that Reality Revision no longer has a 5,000 XP cost. Instead, you must have a 25,000gp focusing crystal. The process involves implanting the psionic power onto the crystal, then shattering it to evoke the effect. This keeps the flavor of psionics as not requiring material components, but still replaces the XP cost with a GP cost.
2. Psionic classes... I have seen several attempts at this, and I must say that I am not sure which direction to go with it. Many of the attempts have offered good advice.
   • The Psion: if I were to model it after Wizard, I would keep the power point progression exactly the same, along with the powers known and max power level known. Then, I would grant the bonus feats of the original psion, increase its HD to d6, and convert the class skills to PF skills. Next, I would use the Arcane Schools as maps for generating Discipline Powers. The spell-like abilities that can be chosen for a wizard would be psi-like abilities for a psion. No problem there. Each of the six disciplines maps to an arcane school, anyway, according to the SRD, so if I was feeling particularly uncreative, I could just copy the powers exactly. So, the problem becomes, how much do I care about low-level psions. A 1st level psion will be inferior to the 1st level wizard for one reason... the wizard has cantrips that he can cast at will. The psion does not have any 0-level powers. They don't exist anymore. Do I create some 0-level powers to make him happy? That doesn't seem like a good solution. Is there some minor fluff that I can add to make him a little cooler? Perhaps he can choose one 1st level power to be usable at will? Or do I make his 1st level discipline power a little cooler? Honestly, I don't know the answer. I have been mulling it over, and I just can't decide what to give him.
   • Psychic Warrior: The main consensus for this class is that he seems nearly PF-compatible already. He shouldn't get the fighter's armor training and weapon training, as he already receives power points and powers. If a DM really wanted, some fluff could be added at some dead levels, but other than that, seems pretty balanced with current PF classes. Although, I happen to agree that now that fighters have their armor and weapon training, they don't need to hoard the Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Specialization. So, perhaps add in the ability for a Psychic Warrior to qualify for "fighter-only" feats. Anyway, the problem I run into is converting the skills to Pathfinder skills. The Psychic Warrior was not meant to be a manifester who studies his powers. Psicraft was specifically left off of the Psychic Warrior's class skill list, yet Concentration was specifically added. It seems logical for Psicraft to replace Concentration for a manifesting class. What about Autohypnosis? What role would that skill play? Would it be bundled up into Psicraft, as well? If that were the case, it is a no-brainer, and Psychic Warrior should have Psicraft. Otherwise, perhaps Autohypnosis could replace Concentration such that the manifester must choose either Psicraft or Autohypnosis when manifesting defensively. I have always liked Autohypnosis, so I don't want to see it rolled up into another skill, personally. I am going to keep it for my games.
   • Soulknife: I am really not sure how to convert this class. This one probably has the most work required to convert it, as it is the least like any other class already out there. Any suggestions are welcome (Honestly, I am more concerned about the psion, as I have one of them in the party I am trying to convert. Likely, when I have more time, I will revisit soulknife. I haven't even checked to see if others have made headway with this class.)
   • Wilder: Pretty much in the same boat with Soulknife.
3. Psionic Races: Luckily, I have none of them in my campaign that I am converting, so I won't worry about this for right now. I will revisit it when I have time.

I plan to eventually have my own house rules for all psionics. I am interested in what the psionic gurus have to say about my plans thus far. If you have any suggestions, especially about converting the different powers over and about the psion itself, I am very open to suggestions. Thanks to any who take a look.

I have been a TOS/TOS+ user for years now. I have tried paper and pencil versions of my games, and I have always found that when I bring a laptop with TOS+ on it to game, and everyone else is trying to figure out their bonuses when they have four spells cast on them, and three rounds later, say, "Oh, I forgot about my synergy from ..." I always find that my characters are more prepared. I don't have to worry about number crunching. I can actually roleplay. When the DM has me make a roll, I just roll. I don't have to sit there calculating the circumstance bonuses. Everything and anything that affects my character is built in to the sheet. Every spell. Every feat. Every class. Every item. It is all done for me. If it is not open source, it can be added (and likely someone has already done the work and has posted a file that you can copy and paste or even load right into the sheet). I have never found a more useful piece of software for gaming. I have tried many other character sheets, and TOS+ is by far and away the most useful of them all. Even when I want to print out my character sheet, it is more useful! I just put the sheet in a clear plastic cover and bring wet erase markers. The sheet automatically generates checkmarks for almost everything, including hit points. I just check off my lost hit points, and I can calculate exactly how many I have left. When I regain spells or hit points, I erase the mark, and voila! Everything is back! I never have smudge marks or mess on my sheets. I never have to try to figure out what the sheet says. Everything is clear and easy. It is all roleplaying.