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One thing to consider about the whole respect legitimate authority is that it does not specifically state a paladin has to obey the legitimate authority. To me this gives the paladin a little more wiggle room then most people think. If they code requires a paladin to obey any order from a legitimate authority it would say obey, not respect.

If obeying the legitimate authority does not break any other parts of the paladin’s code then they would be bound to obey it. If obeying the legitimate authority would cause the paladin to break the code, including any alignment restrictions they are free to disobey that authority. Depending on the circumstance the paladin may have limits to what he can do, but they don’t need to blindly follow orders just because someone is the ruler of a kingdom.

One example would be if a king orders a paladin who is sworn loyalty to him to lie in court. In this case the paladin could disobey the king and tell the truth. He would not start cussing out the king and calling him a lying bastard (even if he is), but would tell the truth.


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Is anyone else getting sick of the page for the 2nd edition play test showing up all the time? I have already downloaded the playtest material, but it seems half the time when I go to the forms the blasted play test page shows up. Can this please be turned off?


I was creating a sorcerer specializing in illusion for a game I am running, and noticed that ventriloquism has a duration of 1 min. per level. Since verbal components are sound I was wondering if a caster with ventriloquism running would be able to use it so that the verbal components of the spell seem to come from some other location. The sorcerer would be invisible or hidden at the time. What I am trying to achieve is to have the sorcerer be in one place casting spells and have others think the sorcerer is actually in a different location. Would it make a difference if the sorcerer had the feat silent spell.

Since I am the GM in this case the answer of ask your GM is not really helpful. What I am asking is that if you were running a game would you allow a caster to use ventriloquism to make the verbal component of a spell seem to come from somewhere else. Also would hearing the spell be cast be enough to be considered to be interacting with the illusion? If the answer is no what would be required to achieve this?


If a witch uses evil eye hex and targets saving throws does it affect the saving throw to resist the evil eye hex? Since a successful saving throw reduces the duration to 1 round instead of negating it, it would seem logical that the penalty to saving throw would apply to the will save to resist the evil eye hex. I could also see the argument for saying that the saving throw to resist the hex comes before it affects the target.

How do other GM’s handle this in their campaigns?


I am building a group of NPC’s for a campaign I am ruining and need help with the last character. The NPC group is an undead themed group, basically necromancers. The last character needs to be a ranger but I can’t seem to find any good undead themed ranger archetypes or other ways to build a undead focused Ranger. There are plenty of ways to make a ranger focused on fighting undead, but nothing that allows an undead themed ranger. I would be ok with using a prestige class as long as it does not works well with the ranger. At this point the best I have come up with a ranger/shadow dancer, but I am hoping for something better.

Also the ranger needs to use archery combat style.


I am working on an adventure set in Rahadoum and was wondering about the first law. Simply stated the first law says let no man be beholden to a god. Obviously this forbids any caster that draws power from a deity, but what about other divine casters. Would divine casters who do not worship a deity be allowed? I am looking mainly at Druids and Rangers, but also thinking about Oracles, and Shamans. Also how would they view witches?


Slippery Mind (Ex): This ability represents the rogue's ability to wriggle free from magical effects that would otherwise control or compel her. If a rogue with slippery mind is affected by an enchantment spell or effect and fails her saving throw, she can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC. She can attempt only one additional saving throw against any given effect using this ability.

Cap of the free thinker
This soft cap helps the wearer free herself from outside influences.
When the wearer makes a saving throw against a mind-affecting effect, she can roll twice and take the better roll.

Cap of the free thinker allows you to roll twice against a mind-affecting effect and take the better roll. Slippery mind allows you to make a second saving throw against an enchantment spell or effect after the first round. Does this mean that I can roll two saving throws the first round, and if I fail both of them I can roll two more saving throws the next round?

Slippery mind stats that you only get one extra saving throw using this ability, but it seems to me that you should be able to roll that saving throw twice as per the cap.


The rules for polymorph state that you lose all abilities that depend on your original form.

While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.

Does this mean that a vampire loses all his vampire based abilities when he uses the vampire ability change into a wolf? If so does that mean the vampire is now a living creature with a CON score and no vampire weaknesses? Technically that would mean he loses the ability to change shape so he cannot actually use this ability. What abilities does a vampire or other template creature lose when he uses a polymorph effect? Or do you change into a template creature of the type you assume?


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Ferocity allows a creature to remain conscious and continue to fight when he is in negative HP. When you your non-lethal damage exceeds your current HP you fall unconscious. If I have a character with Ferocity and he is at negative HP but not dead he remains awake. But if his non-lethal damage is greater than his HP he is knocked out. It seems strange that a character who can take a full hit with the edge of a sword is knocked out being hit with the flat of the sword.

Is there any rules on how ferocity interacts with non-lethal damage?


Vampires are undead humanoid creatures that feed on the blood of the living. They look much as they did in life, often becoming more attractive, though some have a hardened, feral look instead.

Creating a Vampire

“Vampire” is an acquired template that can be added to any living creature with 5 or more Hit Dice (referred to hereafter as the base creature). Most vampires were once humanoids, fey, or monstrous humanoids. A vampire uses the base creature's stats and abilities except as noted here.

Can an animal or other non-human creature become a vampire? The deception says are humanoids, but the template says it can be applied to any living creature. I am running a campaign where the party is a group of undead hunters and was creating a couple of vampires for them to fight and noticed the template says it can be applied to any living creature. This got me thinking about some really strange vampires I could throw at the party. As GM I can of course do what I want, but I try to keep to the rules to be fair to the players.

If an animal can become a vampire is there any reason a character with an animal companion could not turn it to a vampire? I was thinking of having a hunter, or ranger with a wolf companion who were both vampires.


Can an incorporeal spell caster like a ghost affect a corporeal target with his spells? If so does it have a miss chance? Would it make any difference if they were illusions or enchantments.


I am running an undead hunting campaign and need some ideas for some interesting undead bosses. Mostly what I am looking for is unusual but still effective class and template combinations. I already have an antipaladin/oracle of bones gravekinght, and a vampire oracle of flame. Anyone have any ideas on cool combinations?


It says in the description of the spell you may use your caster level and casting stat in place of your CMB. Since a raging Bloodrager’s CMB is probably higher can I use that instead of the caster level check?


I was reading the sacred fist archetype and noticed that the AC bonus you get for leveling up is a deflection bonus. This seems to really penalize the sacred fist because it means that unlike the monks AC bonus it does not stack with things like protections from evil, shield of faith, or rings of protection. What where the developers thinking? It does not make sense that they are the only class in that gets a deflection bonus as a class ability. All other classes that get an AC bonus are either an untyped bonus or a dodge bonus. In either case they stack with all other bonuses.

I think this should be changed to an untyped bonus like the monk gets.


One thing that has bothered me about beginning characters is that many martial characters cannot afford appropriate gear. The beginning gold for a first level character makes most heavy armor and bows with a STR modifier too expensive for a first level character to purchase. By second level this has gone away. The problem is that sometimes you don’t have an opportunity to head back to town to purchase new gear.

I played in a legacy of fire campaign and during the first book you are out of town with no way to get better equipment. I was playing a switch hitting ranger so was stuck with a simple long bow with no STR bonus until after 5th level. The same thing happens with characters that by concept should be using heavy armor, but even chain mail is a stretch for a first level character to afford. Another thing that is annoying is the first level wizard gets his spell book for free instead of having to pay for it, but still gets up to 120 GP for starting wealth. You can use the trait rich parents to get 900 GP as your starting wealth, but that seems to waste of a trait. I also think it is unfair that one character gets a permanent ability and the other basically gets nothing after they have gone on a few adventures.

The two ideas I had where to start everyone with the twice the maximum gold, but require everything to be purchased. Or to give everyone 900 GP as starting equipment but require that 90% of it be spent. I was wondering if anyone else considers this a problem.


I was writing up a sorcerer villain and was looking at the shades spell. It functions like shadow conjuration except for it can be used to cast higher level spell. My question is can you uses this and other shadow spells to cast metamagic versions of the spell. For example could I use greater shadow evocation to cast a intensified, elemental, heightened fireball?


After giving it some thought I have come to the conclusion that Paizo made a mistake with Elves and Gnomes. Elves get a bonus to INT, where gnomes get a bonus to CHA. It should be the other way around. Look at the descriptions of the races and it seems that elves should be the one getting the bonus to CHA and gnomes should have a bonus to INT.

Elves are generally seen as attractive to other races, and are often portrayed as having a commanding presence. They are also emotional and flighty instead of logical and disciplined. Their society is tradition bound, but relies more on individual respect than blind obedience to the rules. To me this implies CHA instead of INT.

Gnomes on the other hand are often misunderstood by other races. Gnome’s obsessive behavior and strange ways seem to resemble a form of autism. Many people with autism are actually quite intelligent and can excel in many scientific occupations, think of Sheldon from the Big Bang theory. This to me suggests INT instead of CHA.

Since most spontaneous magic is CHA based this would change the balance of the classes for the races. Elves would make better bards, oracles, and sorcerers, where gnomes would become better alchemists, wizards and witches. This actually makes a lot of sense. Elves are supposed to be a highly magical race with more spell casters than any other race. Gnomes on the other hand are supposed to love experimentation.

What I think should be done is to swap out the bonus so elves get a bonus to CHA, and gnomes get a bonus to INT. I would also change the favored racial bonus for elven spell caster to the human bonus of extra spells.

How does this sound?


I was working on a NPC write up for a Catfolk Bard that dips one level of oracle of lore. The Idea is to have a character that is dumber than dirt but can answer any question. I will be taking the Lore Keeper revelation to make all knowledge skills CHA based, but also noticed the Focused Trance. Focused trance allows you to gain a +20 circumstance bonus to any INT based skill. My question is does Focused Trance work on knowledge skill if you have the Lore Keeper revelation. Since they are both revelations of the same mystery it would make since that they can be used together.


Looking over the rules for alchemist’s bombs I have a couple of questions. Do discoveries on bombs stack. For example can I have an explosive frost bomb? Also does a tangle foot bomb also do damage?


I was working on a high level ifrit oracle of flame with the form of flames revelation. He will be taking the favored class bonus to allow him to be considered 18th level for form of the flames so he can become a huge fire elemental. I was looking over his 5th level spells and the Righteous Might is not listed as being a polymorph spell. If that is the case the spells should stack and allow him to become a Gargantuan fire elemental.


I was looking over the rules for stealth and invisibility and noticed something. Invisibility gives you a +20 to your stealth roll when moving. The rules for stealth say that it is impossible to use stealth when attacking, running or charging. It later gives an exception for sniping so that is obviously and exception.

So if an invisible creature is moving slower than a run and not charging you get to make a stealth roll at +20 and the opposing creature gets a perception roll to spot him. If the invisible creature is running or charging then they do not get a stealth roll and the opposing creature has to make a perception roll of 10 to spot them.

This would indicate that if you are running or charging you are pretty much automatically detected. So my question is does running or charging break invisibility?


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No two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart.

How do other people interpret this? It does not say must be within a 30 radius so I assume that it means that it is like a line that each person has to be within 30 ft. of the next in line. Looking at it though it could be interpreted either way.


In my next game the party is going to encounter a ghost of a sorcerer. The sorcerer was originally good and was trapped using a set of magical shackles that bind the body and soul of anyone locked in them. He became a ghost when he was trapped and left to die.

The problem I am having is coming up with a good bloodline. The only one I have decided on is not to use the undead bloodline.


There was a recent post about how clerics are only clerics and can't be anything else. There was a lot of good idea's as to what else a cleric can be. The idea that you don't let the class description limit you makes sense. This got me thinking about what other classes could be a cleric besides the cleric. I realized that both Bards and Witches would actually make decent clerics. Now I am wondering what other classes may be able to fill the roles traditionally filled by another class.

My challenge is to find a class that can function as another class. You have to be able to cover what people are expecting the original class to be able to do. Don't bother with the rogue as this has been the subject of too many threads. Your class should also have some advantages over the traditional class. Specific class features are do not need to be duplicated but the role they play needs to be covered. For example you do not need channel energy to function as a cleric, but you do need to be able to heal. Also ignore the source of any magic for this purpose.

Starting out I would say a Bard is able to function as a cleric. They have similar combat ability and the bard has access to cure spells. With his high charisma and skills he would make a better preacher than a cleric. Having perform oratory as a class skill is going to mean he is a better speaker than a cleric.


There was a recent post about how clerics are only clerics and can't be anything else. There was a lot of good idea's as to what else a cleric can be. The idea that you don't let the class description limit you makes sense. This got me thinking about what other classes could be a cleric besides the cleric. I realized that both Bards and Witches would actually make decent clerics. Now I am wondering what other classes may be able to fill the roles traditionally filled by another class.

My challenge is to find a class that can function as another class. You have to be able to cover what people are expecting the original class to be able to do. Don't bother with the rogue as this has been the subject of too many threads. Your class should also have some advantages over the traditional class. Specific class features are do not need to be duplicated but the role they play needs to be covered. For example you do not need channel energy to function as a cleric, but you do need to be able to heal. Also ignore the source of any magic for this purpose.

Starting out I would say a Bard is able to function as a cleric. They have similar combat ability and the bard has access to cure spells. With his high charisma and skills he would make a better preacher than a cleric. Having perform oratory as a class skill is going to mean he is a better speaker than a cleric.


When I first started gaming it used to be that you had to have at least one fighter, cleric, mage and a thief. So your minimum party had to be at least 4. Pathfinder kind of changed that but I am wondering what is the smallest party you could get away with and still be able to cover all the roles. I am not talking about a campaign where the GM tailors the adventure to the party, but rather a standard game.

Here is my challenge to come up with a party that can cover all the roles of a traditional party with the fewest members. Since you will be facing the same challenges as a normal party you will need to be able to take care of the same challenges as would be expected in a normal adventure. You do not need to be the best at the job just competent.

These are the roles that need to be covered. Use of scrolls, wands and other magic items are perfectly acceptable but the wealth by level needs to be followed. Assume 12th level characters with a 25pt buy.

Healer
• HP loss
• Ability Damage
• Fatigue
• Exhaustion
• Negative Levels
• Ability Drain
• Blindness
• Deafness
• Disease
• Curse
• Poison
• Death

Ranged Combat
• Handle CR appropriate threats at ranges greater than 30 feet, or against flying or otherwise inaccessible opponents.

Close Combat
• Handle CR appropriate threats ranging from adjacent square to 30 feet.

Area Damage
• Deal damage over an area (Mainly for Swarms)

Traps
• Locate and neutralize both mechanical and Magical Traps

Intelligence
• Locate and gather information about opponents
• Detect Magic
• Identify Items especially magic items
• Navigation both above and below ground

Defensive Magic
• Provide protection vs. elemental damage
• Provide protection from mental control
• Remove hostile magic
• Counteract opponents magic

Battle Field Control
• Hinder or disable opponents
• Restrict or control opponents and opponents movement
• Provide Support for your teammates.

Movement
• Pursue and avoid enemies
• Overcome obstacles
• Maneuver on and under water


Windy Escape spell is a immediate action to cast, and as such can be cast at any time without provoking an AoO . My question is can you wait to until after a critical hit has been confirmed to cast the spell.


I am looking to play a Suli Paladin with the Oath of Vengeance in an upcoming game. My concept is for a hard hitting all out offensive character, but at the same time I want him to survive. He will be wielding a Falchion and taking power attack at first level. The problem is the feats after that, especially at the lower levels. Incremental Elemental Assault is on the plans but not until higher level when He has more duration to make it worthwhile.

My first thoughts were to take a combat maneuver chain live. With the high crit range of the falchion the maneuver strike feats seem to be a good choice. Right now I am looking at either the sunder chain or the bull rush chain. Bellow is the basic build

1st level Paladin with an Oath of Vengeance.
STR 18 (+2 Racial)
DEX 13
CON 14
INT 10 (-2 Racial)
WIS 10
CHA 16 (+2 Racial)
Feat Power Attack

All Pathfinder books are able to be used, but no third party or 3.5.