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I would vote for transmutation after reading this thread. Necro makes a certain degree of sense, but, I do not view HP loss results in a cut or a slice everytime.

To explain, a 1st lvl character has low HP vs a 20th lvl character. The bodies (minus stat adjustments) are the same though. A body cannot take 20 axe chops to the throat regardless of the lvl you are. The HP losses (when you hit and damage him) for the 20th lvl character might come from near misses, powerful blows that open up the guys defenses. A 1st lvl doesnt have the XP to survive these near misses etc and will die quickly, whereas an experienced fighter is hard to get down. They both die from the axe chop to the throat though.

So a curing spell could transform the characters injuries, help make them more resistant etc to future attacks.

This is just my take on how HP affect the body

Does vital strike word with a cleave/ great cleave?

Also does the -2 AC from cleave and great cleave stack? -4 AC when using great cleave?

I think Adam (and others) hit on a component of the bard play. Are you, as a player, going to be happy contributing but not being the major player in many scenes (until the blood soaked psychopaths are brought to court).

Definately! I enjoy players characters like this and do well. I play an arcane trickster in a group of 3 paladins and 1 cleric. I do very well buffing my guys with spells, getting flanks, off tanking, being the scout/spy. My worry is that the Bard just wasnt stacking up against other characters in this role. My wizard has a high int and going for loremaster so he is more knowledgeable then me at the moment. The healing in a pinch, getting flanks etc can be done with multiple characters classes. I can sing my heart out and give everyone +1/+1 hit/dmg but this iconic class ability only lasts 12 rds or something for me a day. (ie about 2 battles)

To the many posters that commented on knowledge skills, our DM is very fair and we do knowledge checks all the time, getting insights on monsters, places, etc and are generally always rewarded for exceptional rolls with v good info. Of course, everyone once and awhile when we would have no ability to obtain inside information do we not garner any results from the checks

If you feel the characters are cheesing out their characters and taking a 5 charisma to get higher physical stats tell them "You have to take a min charisma of 8". Its your game, your story, and to create the best experience dont let people run over you with cheeseness!

Now if someone took a 5 charisma and this is fine with you, remind them that this is an exceptional stat that NEEDS to be roleplayed. Just as PC's roleplay a very high stat, they should roleplay the exceptionally low stats as well.

And if they refuse to roleplay, refuse to let them take such a score.

Now for a 5 charisma player who has tons of diplomacy with ranks, sure they can succeed on a skill check, but the key is roleplaying how they succeed. Just because a PC roles a 20 on a diplomacy check, doesnt mean the other person falls in love with the PC, they might begrudging agree, or see the wisdom and agree with the PC's words but be too utterly repulsed by the PC to shake his hand. Also the initial reaction to the PC might be lowered by a step like from indifferent to unfriendly.

Thank you everyone for your posts. To clarify, we have about 9 people in our gaming group, but games have from 4-6 players and we play the game which fits with who is around that night.
I agree with what most people are saying, and will suck it out and play my bard to a higher level. The arcane duelist in APG fits quite nice with him (elven bard that has PBS, precise, rapid shot, and deadly aim).
He does ok damage, decent buffer, and can heal when the group needs it. Also going for the war weaver prestige class that will be reworked by the DM for pathfinder.
Anyways, we are playing the bard as is, just trying to get a feel for what to expect in latter levels.

To the OP, you missed the threads complaining about the lack of bard abilities stacking and being underpowered in pathfinder. The APG is definitely a step in the right direction for bards. Still, bards are not common through there was a post about them being being listed more than barbarians as characters on paizo.

A lot of the abilities you suggested seem extremely powerful. I would focus more around a role plus the ability for the bard to contribute directly as well. Hopefully, tomorrow I can give a more in depth review. This most likely belongs under house rules.

I plan to play a arcane duelist or archivist as my next society character. I plan to post my thoughts on the boards about the power level.

Thanks for the insight! When we first looked at pathfinder we loved the buffs the barbarian got (invulnerable rager especially) and the other classes. So keeping in mind the buffs the other classes got, especially considering I feel the bard was very underpowered to begin with, I wanted people playing the bard to be excited and a class that equals the others. So I agree the abilities are powerful, but would they put the bard out of wack with the other classes?

I play with a large group of gamers that have played D&D for a long time. We all played 3.5e but absolutely detested what 4e became. We discovered pathfinder and love pretty much everything that changed. One constant that remained was how little the bard was played. Counting up all the characters from all our games, over 150 different characters have been rolled, only 4 of which have been a bard. (3 of which were mine and only 1 still active)

We have never seen a high level bard in either 3.5e or pathfinder, nobody could stomach the lack of role, abilities etc I imagine.

The APG offered some different and cool niches for the bard to focus in on. I wonder if it is enough though. While almost every class got better, with new neat abilities etc, did the bard get it's fair share?

So firstly, I'm wondering if people find my story to ring true in their gaming worlds and secondly, would these abilities seem balanced and in line with the other classes.

Thanks for reading! Appreciate any feedback. =)

Bardic Knowledge: A bard adds half his class level to all knowledge skills that he has at least one rank in.

Bardic Inspiration: A bard is trained to use the Perform skill to create magical effects on those around him, including himself if desired. He can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + his Charisma modifier. At each level after 1st a bard can use bardic performance for 2 additional rounds per day. Each round, the bard can produce any one of the types of bardic performance that he has mastered, as indicated by his level. Each bardic performance indicates the type of action required to use it but it can be maintained each round as a free action. Changing a bardic performance from one effect to another requires the bard to stop the previous performance and start a new one as a standard action. A bardic performance cannot be disrupted, but it ends immediately if the bard is killed, paralyzed, stunned, knocked unconscious, or otherwise prevented from taking a free action to maintain it each round.

Inspire Courage (Su): A 1st-level bard can use his performance to inspire courage in his allies (including himself ), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to perceive the bard’s performance. An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 competence bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. At 8th level and 14th this bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +3at 14th level. Inspire courage is a mind-affecting ability. Inspire courage can use audible or visual components.

Heroic Charge: A bard of 1st level can use a bardic performance to inspire his allies during a charge. As a free action he gives himself and all allies +1 to attack and damage if they perform a charge. This effect last until the start of the bards next turn. It is a morale bonus. At 8th level and 14th level this bonus increases by +1 to a maximum of +3 at 14th level. Heroic charge is a mind-affecting ability.

Rally: A bard of 2nd level can persuade allies to continue to fight even against great odds. A bard can use a bardic performance as a swift action to allow any ally a single reroll against a fear effect. At 2nd level the reroll gains an additional +1 morale bonus against the check. This bonus increases to +2 at 9th level and +3 at 15th level. Rally is a mind-affecting ability.

Jack of all Trades: A of 2nd level is a very versatile helper.
as long as the bard has a single rank in a skill, he may automatically grant a +2 aid another bonus to an ally without a roll.

Quick Learner: A bard of 2nd level learns to quickly adapt and recover from mistakes. After any skill check that the bard fails, the bard may attempt a retry (provided that the skill check allows retries) with an additional +2 bonus.

Whispersong: Bards are often used as messengers and spies. While performing, they may choose to send a message in their song to a specific person. The person targeted to receive the message must make a DC 10 sense motive check to understand the message. Anyone else listening may attempt a sense motive check to understand the message by making a sense motive check equal to 10 + the bards perform check. A bard gains this ability at 3rd level.

Demoralize: A bard of 3rd level can demoralize his enemies and make them more prone to flight. Using a bardic performance as a standard action, a bard gives all enemies able to see or hear the bard a -1 to attack, skill checks, and fear saves. This negative increases to -2 at 10th level, and to a maximum of -3 at 16th level. This is a mind-affecting ability.

Hold the Line: By bolster the confidence and awareness of his allies against enemy attacks, a bard may use a bardic performance as a standard action to grant his allies a +1 morale bonus to armor class. This bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and to a maximum of +3 at 17th level. This is a mind-affecting ability.

Spellsong: A bard of 5th level is a master of combining song and spell. Useable once per day at 5th level a bard may combine a spell cast with a bardic ability. At 10th level a bard can use this ability twice a day and at 15th level three times a day.

Glorious Weapons: When a bard see’s that his allies weapons are not affecting their enemies, he may bless the weapons by using a bardic performance as a standard action to allow all allies to bypass 1 damage reduction. Maintaining this ability requires a standard action. This ability increases to bypass 3 damage reduction at 12th level and to a maximum of bypassing 5 damage reduction at 18th level. This is a mind-affecting ability.

Bardic Focus: A bard’s courage is an example to his allies. A bard gains +1 to attack and weapon damage rolls on a single enemy per round. Changing targets is a free action. In addition any ally attacking the same target gains a +1 attack. This bonus increases to +2 at 12th level and to a maximum of +3 at 18th level. This is a mind affecting insight bonus.

Tales of Battle: A bard’s knowledge of enemies and ability to inspire his allies with tales of great battles and deeds help to protect himself and those listening. A bard must have knowledge of the enemy (perform necessary knowledge checks). By telling stories for at least one minute will grant himself and allies a +1 morale bonus on all saves against the particular enemy for 24 hours. This bonus increases to +2 at 13th level and to a maximum of +3 at 19th level. This is a mind-affecting ability.

Persuasive Performer: A bard is often judged by the quality of their performances. If a bard performs for at least one minute, he may use his perform check result for any charisma based skill when interacting with those that listened to the bard for at least one minute. This ability lasts for 24 hours.

Bardic Aura: A bard of 10th level is able to choose an aura that affects any allies within 10ft of him.
Arcane Persistance: +1 to Caster level checks to overcome spell resistance
Enduring: Like feat endurance, but +2 bonus.
Negotiator: +2 on diplomacy and sense motive checks.
Quick Strike : +2 on initiative checks, +10ft movement in first round only.
Resolute: +1 Will Save
Strength: +2 Intimidate and +2 on strength checks.
Toughness: 5/magic DR on non lethal only.
Vigilant: +2 on perception and sense motive checks.

Spellbreaker: A bard of 13th level knows how to use his bardic performance to disrupt spell casting. If an enemy spell caster is adjacent to a bard who is using a bardic performance, the spell caster must make a concentration attempt against the bard’s perform check. If the concentration check is higher, the spell is cast. If the perform check is higher the spell is lost.

Duel Song: A bard has mastered his bardic performances to the point he can maintain two bardic performance abilities as free actions at the same time.
Starting a bardic performance still requires the appropriate

Last Stand: A master of his bardic performances and a beacon of inspiration to his allies, a 20th level bard refuses to let his allies die, and if they must, after they have gotten their chance to die in glory! A bard using his bardic performances gives all his allies the effects of the Diehard feat. In addition, even if an ally loses hitpoints that would kill him, he may ignore death for one round. At which point all the damage taken is accounted for and the ally may die. If the bardic performance is stopped for any reason before the round ends the damage is also accounted for then.