I just don't understand Vital strike...


Rules Questions


Ok! So, I don't understand the value of the feat Vital strike. What is the point of this feat? How is using vital strike a better option then using a full round attack? you deal less damage because you lose your second attacks modifiers! I MUST be missing something! can someone please explain!


Yar!

It's useful because you can not always make a full attack action. Sometimes you have to close the distance by moving first, and then you can only make a standard action. Depending on terrain, you may not be able to charge. In this case, why simply move and regular attack when you can move and Vital Strike. It's a much better option. If you’re staggered (either from being slowed, too much non-lethal damage, HP at exactly 0, various special abilities, etc), you can only make a single move or standard action and cannot full-attack either. This is another time when Vital Strike is a better choice of action.

~P


Also, even WHEN you CAN Full Attack, if you only have 1 extra attack that is low attack bonus and you are facing high AC, you might choose to make 1 big attack. (Esp. if you are a 2 Handed Fighter variant that gets extra bonus damage on Attack Actions/Charges)

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Vital Strike can also be used with ranged weapons like crossbows, which you might not be able to fire more than once per round due to reload times.

Also, if you're having trouble getting through an enemy's Damage Reduction, it might be better to hit them hard once, (and only deal with DR once) than it would be to hit them several times (and have to bypass DR with each attack).


Ok, So I was thinking of making an archer/sniper character, so vital strike would be less valuable for them because they don't have to close the distance as much as the other classes, right? Giving them much more chances to perform full round attacks. to be more specific, I want to give the Monk/Zen Archer a try.


Move + Attack

Sunder Attempts

Prepared Actions to distrupt a spellcaster.


And here I thought that Vital Strike could be used as a part of a full attack. I'm gonna go shove my head down a toilet now.


Kaiyanwang wrote:

Move + Attack

Sunder Attempts

Prepared Actions to distrupt a spellcaster.

Oh~h! these are good points! Thanks everyone! Going to have some fun with this! >:D


spring attack is a wonderful option, also I have been looking over soulknife twin strike, while not technically cannon, it is the closest we are getting to an official psionics for a very long time.


Spring Attack doesn´t work with Vital Strike per RAW
(this was unclear before, and Paizo specifically Errata´d in a way not allowing the VS/SA combo)
though since it makes sense and FEELS right, I have no problem recommending you HOUSE-RULE it to work together...
It´s just something that needs to be decided ahead of time between players and GM because it clearly isn´t allowed per RAW.
Curiously enough, before Spring Attack was clarified in Errata, Paizo themself publshed adventures with NPCs using Spring Attack + Vital Strike in their given tactics.


getting past DR.
full attacks get split up per attack vs a DR, Vital Strike is all in one hit, so that extra dice is usually going to be soaked up by the DR and then the rest of the normal damage gets through.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

So to sum up all of the above = Options


crud I did not know that I need to keep up in my errata downloads. Also sounds like it was probably an in house argument on it, with the against side winning.
Me I will keep allowing players to use it because spring attack is a feat heavy build that very few of my players take, so I will reward the ones that do.

Oh mounted combat, while you can usually pull off some full attacks with that charging mount with lance and vital strike=brutal hit


A fun character to play with vital strike is a scout variant rogue, or a crossbow fighter with a large heavy crossbow.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

The value of Vital Strike is easy. You give it to the frost worm, and it kills your PCs.

You give it to the balor, he casts quickened telekinese on the rogue to throw him up into the sky, he moves to the landing spot, and hits a homerun.

You give it to the crossbow sniper with Deadly Aim and watch things fall down.

My favorite is give it to a monk and have him grapple for extra dice of hand to hand damage.

No, that's not true. My favorite is the frost worm.


Steven T. Helt wrote:
My favorite is give it to a monk and have him grapple for extra dice of hand to hand damage.

This doesn´t work though because Grapplig doesn´t use the Attack Action which is what Vital Strike applies to... Although if you are Grappled, there´s no reason you can´t attack with the Attack Action (or Full Attack), but you don´t maintain/reverse the Grapple if doing so. Same thing for Charges, they are their own thing, whether Partial or Full Charge.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

Hmmm...I got the charge part. Gonna have to look into the grapple. Sure makes as much sense to deal your unamred damage with Vital Strike as it does for the frost worm.


Steven T. Helt wrote:
Hmmm...I got the charge part. Gonna have to look into the grapple. Sure makes as much sense to deal your unamred damage with Vital Strike as it does for the frost worm.

Well, it's true that a frost worm will add an average of 22 points of damage (4d10) with vital strike, but it's a cr12 monster... So it's a big increase but not THE player killer ability...


Quandary wrote:
Curiously enough, before Spring Attack was clarified in Errata, Paizo themself publshed adventures with NPCs using Spring Attack + Vital Strike in their given tactics.

Not only that, but:

James Jacobs (Creative Director) wrote:


I actually LIKE the idea of being able to make a Vital Strike while Spring Attacking, and you could certainly read the rules that way
...
The rules as I see them state that Spring Attack and Vital Strike don't work together, but letting them work together is probably better for the game.
...
For now, though, the original ruling stands.

but then later:

Since you found precedence where the two feats work together in print, LET THAT BE THE LAW!

Vital Strike and Spring Attack were made to be together, after all. :-)

The errata was release after that post, though. (4th printing I think) Personally I'll side with James.


Does vital strike word with a cleave/ great cleave?

Also does the -2 AC from cleave and great cleave stack? -4 AC when using great cleave?


MorningLord wrote:
Does vital strike word with a cleave/ great cleave?

No, vital strike can only be used as part of the attack action, cleave and great cleave are their own type of standard action

MorningLord wrote:
Also does the -2 AC from cleave and great cleave stack? -4 AC when using great cleave?

nope, because you are only doing one or the other... you use cleave or great cleave (not cleave and great cleave) so you only suffer the ill effects of which ever one you are using that round.


In my house rules I changed Vital Strike to apply whenever you make a single attack in a round, and one attack only, excluding AoO's. Not when using full-attack/two-weapon fighting and not when cleaving, but it does apply on a charge or with spring attack.


Nanithice wrote:
Ok! So, I don't understand the value of the feat Vital strike. What is the point of this feat?

itsatrap.jpg

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

Also, you can hold an attack action, so beaning the enemy wizard when he casts a spell gets you more punch.

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