One thing that always comes up in questions about magic is "Why doesn't everyone learn magic if it's so easy to learn?"
People tend to forget three things.
Casters are not selfless. If anything, they tend to be the most self centered, arrogant, self righteous people in the games. Look at how many disasters they cause, for one! It's unlikely they're going to share their spells with anyone else, RAW aside.
Not everyone can learn magic. PC's have an easy time learning magic by RAW, but there is a caveat, stated in the books almost every time: PCs ARE NOT AVERAGE PEOPLE. Sure, a PC can learn magic by taking a level in the spell casting class....but that doesn't mean anyone else can. NPCs are invariably described as having put large amounts of time and effort into learning magic. There are no NPCs who simply 'leveled up' into magic by their descriptions. Pcs are beyond the norm.
Trust. In addition to money, there is another factor - trust. It takes time to do stuff; even a witch, who can literally heal every strange they meet once per day, can only travel so much through a town and take care of these people. She has to talk with them for one - and she has to be allowed to deal with them for another. Not every person is simply going to trust a spellcaster to do what the spellcaster says he's going to do. In fact, your average person is going to be very, very wary of letting a stranger use any magic at all on them. Because spellcasters do weird stuff, like blow up cities, summon demons, try and kill gods, and break continents. This is known fact in the universes where they exist; there's usually at least one disaster area caused specifically by a spellcaster doing something he shouldn't. and you're going to let this strange cast spells on you, or the village well, or enchant a wagon? Not bloody likely.
Of course, this also means that horses gallop cross-country at 11mph (actual horse average is 30mph), while humans sprint at 8.5mph (actual average is closer to 15mph), so giving horses with riders 3 actions of running (assuming 140', that's just under 16mph) would put them closer to the actual ratio of horse-speed to human speed, while simultaneously also meaning that your standard domesticated horse is capable of running at the same speed as a 'monster' horse (because they'd have the same number of actions).
It takes the well trained Horse and rider about 15 hours to travel 100 miles at hard pace over basic dirt roads, and that is assuming breaks and stops.
The well trained runner does the same distance in about 18 hours, assuming breaks but no stops.
These are real and accurate times from the Western States Run and the Tevis cup, the two endurance runs held in the foothills of Northern California. In both cases these are well trained, well practiced individuals who do this sort of thing constantly.
I realize this is the playtest, but there is one thing I have concerns with.
Many people say that no one ever reaches high level play. I have personally run games from first levels into the thirties - and not only for D&D/PF. I would like to know if there is life after 20th level planned for this iteration of the game or not, because the 'bounded accuracy' and 'set level caps' of the games that have them are very troubling to me. You can go this far, this high, and no further.
And that's offensive to me as a gamemaster.
I liked that there were rules for going beyond 20th level in PF that were not necessarily epic, and that the additional alternate rulesets could accommodate them (Mythic, words of Power to go beyond 9th level spells, and Style feats or Stamina system to give martials further ways to deal with issues they might not ordinarily have). And admittedly, you do have to scale up other feats to keep certain feats and abilities relevant, but they were minimal at best.
Casters feared the fighter in my games, because he could very easily one-shot them through most of their defenses without any trouble at all, and that did not require major homebrewing. But in a level capped 20 level or 30 level game, there would be an end to it; you could keep adventuring, but the challenges would remain the same after that point because increasing the abilities beyond that point broke integral systems. (I am sure people have heard that "+1 to hit is king in 4e", and it's not wrong.)
So my hope and question is - will there be places for those of us who want to move into 21st level and beyond?
A lot of the problem with this type of 'math' and other 'white room theorycraft' is it ignores 3 major variables.
1: Player choices outside of the targeted math.
Certainly power attack compared to magic weapons seems to be lackluster. What about 'Assists' from another player? If they are aware you are a power attacker and you don't hit often as you might want to, you can receive assists from characters who don't do much else during their turns. There are even ranged assists from other fighters, rangers, and rogues that take only a single action. This is a critical kind of variable.
2: GM actions.
Monsters aren't static piles of hit points in tabletop games. Every times i see something like this I have to wonder, "what if the monster is X and does Y?" What if the enemy is another PC based class? that changes variables wildly. No damage done is wasted against a monster because you may be facing weaker or stronger versions of the monster, and not all monsters of a given level will ahve the same hit points in any case. Resistance is a very real issue in the playtest.
3: Dice.
No math like this ever stands up to the actual test of rolling dice, because it can't. You can say "the probability of rolling this is this" but that doesn't matter because until the die is actually rolled, it's just a possibility - one of twenty of them as a matter of fact, and no amount of math and statistics is really going to change that.
There are plenty of people who can do this kind of math everywhere, but no one can say with absolute certainty what the players, GM, or dice will actually DO.
This is great. But for the classes that don't have them, there is just not enough difference here. Most of them are "trained" in one saving throw and "expert" in two others, and this doesn't change. This means that by the end of the game, one class will have +20 to a save and the other will have... +21. And that's it. I wouldn't even notice this difference in gameplay.
The same applies to perception and weapons. Most classes are either fixed at +0 or fixed at +1 at level one, and this doesn't change and is barely discernible as different. The scale from +0 to +3 is small enough already, and now most classes are locked in a scale from +0 to +1.
In my groups experience, a +1 to a save, attack roll, or anything else could easily make the difference between success and failure. And that was in standard PF, where gaining a +3 bonus was an easy achievement.
It may be anecdotal, but I personally think that it's a matter of perception as well. The bonuses don't look big, but they do a lot more because of the tighter tiers of success and failure (Crit Success, Success, Failure, Crit Fail).
Oh good. I only run my own campaigns. However, this set up is very much in tune with plans I have made in the past....so I am looking forward to downloading the playtest stuff in a week, after Paizo has it's servers fixed.
For example: If you want a spellcasting paladin, you can swap out your 2nd and 4th level class feats for cleric spellcasting of up to 3rd level spells by level 8. Sure, you only get 1 slot of each level without further feats, but you get access to spells while they're still relevant - unlike in PF1 where you didn't see 3rd level spells until 13th level. A few more feats and a paladin can cast up to 8th level divine spells... while still being a smiting, armoured, martial juggernaut.
That is awesome
This means you CAN have your spell casting ranger - just not yet with primal (druid) spells yet.
On the other hand, you can literally make a certain archytypal Dunedain ranger, since you can take clerical healing abilities and spells to affect ghosts and spectres.
What I'm asking about are the spells themselves. I heard about Bards getting Magic Missile potentially and that seems... well, it feels a little off, especially seeing Bardic spells are mental and spiritual in nature.
To be fair, with the example given, I'm pretty sure primal magic is nature stuff. Like, Druidic stuff.
Personally I'd love to see the kineticist make a move over once things get rolling.
I think that would be a cool thing. Kineticists are clearly inspired, at least in part, by benders (á la Avatar: The Last Airbender), and the benders' powers have a spiritual origin even though they mostly aren't linked to particular spirits. That'd fit well with primal magic, at least on paper.
Kineticists were inspired by movies such as The Fury and Scanners, where using your power caused you to suffer horrible injuries.
The natives of Bezodan, a jungle island chain, wear no armor and minimal jewelry. They carry spears and shields which they now threaten you with. Bracers would flavor wise be out of place for these islanders, though mechanically they provide exactly what I want for the chiefs bodyguards.
Wooden arm bracers and plates as well as grass or cloth wrappings and decorations about the wrists and ankles are seen in Aztec and Mayan depictions of warriors, and are used by several African tribes. So they could easily have bracers of armor and enchanted legwear as well.
The fact that gish, a word made in AD&D and has survived this long, says everything about how popular an idea a Magus-style class is.
I am also hopeful that the new magic class will be something more like the Phantom Blade Spiritualist, who is far better a gish than the Magus, and has a number of internalized options to boot.
My one big hope - which is only partly concerned with this thread - is that there isn't a "hard cap at 20 levels". I don't wants hard caps like that. It's why I don't play 4e, and it's why I don't play 5e.
With the rules for higher than 20 levels in the core PF book, I was perfectly fine adding a touch of homebrew to fix some numbers and continue into the thirties quite easily. My players enjoyed it.
It doesn't have to be "epic" or "mythic" - just not "stop here and go no further". Especially with so many options available to the characters - this means you could go past 20 into 30 and further customize your characters the way you want.
So, Starfinder has an interesting quirk in their ability score buying math that the +1 stat bonus from Themes ends up being functionally useless. This is the result of the fact that bonuses come in groups of +2 (except for going from 19->20 which only gets you a +1) and the fact that ability score pre-reqs are mostly gone (except for Dex 15 if I recall).
Will this be the case if we are now taking their ability score system and porting it to Pathfinder, or will changes be made to address this?
Remember, in Starfinder you gain only a +1 to any ability score higher than 17, so that +1 can be useful at 5th level.
The thing I have discovered about system mastery, is that system mastery also is quite dependent on having a GM that only uses rules as written and doesn't homebrew anything, and doesn't change the game to make things more workable for players, character classes, or for arcane and unknowable reasons.
As an example, the whole "wizards break the game" deal based on system mastery and an understanding of how wizards work falls apart more often than not in the face of an actual game with real players and an even slightly intelligent and somewhat experienced GM.
So, Bloodrager and Swashbuckler vs. an incorporeal undead dragon? I hope the Bloodrager is well equipped, because the Swashbuckler will do absolutely nothing against that type of monster. ^^
Female half-elf Swashbuckler is looking swell, though.
If it were just undead there wouldn't be a problem.
Gozreh wanted to get rid of the community so he didn't bother frightening anyone off. They worshiped a god other than him, so they needed to be dealt with - the opportunity arose, so he dealt with them.
Then those pesky PC's and their little dog too came by....
Two-Handed: Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. Apply 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon.
The commentary on Two-Handed weapons in the equipment section pretty much settles the argument that Mythic Weapon finesse does not grant the 1.5 damage bonus. Mythic Weapon Finesse states you can use your Dex Bonus instead of Strength bonus for attack and damage only, but the weapon description itself defeats the idea that you get the bonus damage from a two handed weapon since it relies only on strength.
Are you sure you downloaded the right file? Did you download the single file or the chapter by chapter file?
I downloaded both, but I generally only use the single file for general reading.
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Phomandala
I just checked my new PDF (single file). The magus archetypes are still there, but they are hidden in the bookmarks for the inquisitor archetypes. Weird.
At level 11, if you spend most of your evolutions on limbs and claws, it's entirely possible to build the multiattack eidolon.
That also means you do not get to spend those evolutions on size increases, damage increases, or defenses because you'll need almost all of them for limbs and pounce. It also means that with each attack you are at -2 for every natural attack and -2 for one weapon attack in addition -6 for every off hand weapon attack using the eidolon's 3/4 BAB attack bonus. Any non-weapon magic item you get for the eidolon is a magic item that most likely cannot be used by the summoner, so be careful with your allocations.
So basically what you are creating is the total-miss-monster.
I ran a 10 year long D&D game for Spelljammers that encompased 3 1/2 versions of D&D (2nd Ed, 3rd+3.5, PF) and has moved the characters from level 1 to level 25 in the first three systems, and is not at 31st level in PF.
I've been using the epic rule suggestions in the core book, with additional houserules adjustments largely based on increases/bonuses to attack-damage-DC improvement because that is where epic starts to break down (creatures increasing saves and attack bonuses and PC up with characters bonuses to attack-damage-spell DC not keeping pace).
The game is largely political, but when combat happens it is devastating and deadly, causing serious collateral damage as often as not as well as having huge political repercussions. The advent of PF made the fighter one of the most feared members of the party which consists of mostly casters because he can guarantee-kill them in a single attack and they are perfectly aware of that while chances are good their save-or-lose and save-or-dies aren't going to stop him from landing those killing blows.
Having actual rules for epic or mythic level stuff isn't a requirement, but it WOULD make my job as a GM easier.
And I don't want an eidolon to always be a big dumb brute going HULK SMASH! whenever I play a Summoner.
Trading physical stats for better mental ones doesn't seem like it would over power the class.
Considering the number of 'optimizers' who consider the eidolon totally broken anyways, making them smart and giving them total access to the specialties of the monks and manuver based fighters would very much over power them. A grappling eidolon is already a threat, but giving it improved and greater grapple as well would be unpleasant. And giving it more skills and more fighting capability than a melee character is essentially pulling the good old CoDzilla situation back into PF after they finally got rid of it, except it would be Summoner=Win Button.
Monks suffer from a unique affliction that is quite obvious when you observe all the threads about them.
Almost everyone sees the monk and tries to compare it to a fighter.
This weird sort of view is a result of everyone holding onto the ideal of the Advanced D&D monkl, which WAs a match for the fighter. After 3.0 they were seriously dropped in power, and no one ever bothered to correct this viewpoint. Pathfinder did, but they didn't make it obvious enough.
Monks are not a full melee class - the only class you should be comparing a monk to is a rogue, not a fighter.
-3/4 BAB.
-Skills centered on movement and dealing with people.
-A conditional attack that does atypical amounts of damage: the Flurry of Blows (this is the one that fools everyone into thinking they're some kind of fighter class, when it should be looked at like the rogues sneak attack and treated as such).
-A host of abilities designed to help deliver singular attacks backed by save-or-suck and save-or-lose abilities OR to help them get to where allies can be helped to do the most effective attacks possible (repositioning enemies for spells to take effect, flanking with rogues, getting the potion of healing to a badly injured ally, etc.).
-medium AC (similar to the bard, summoner, alchemist, and other 3/4 combatants who are not full casters).
-Abilities and saves that make them less likely to be affected by powers and abilities that would render other characters helpless or out of the fight.
This is touched upon by their role explanation in the Core book:
Monks excel at overcoming even the most daunting perils, striking where it's least expected, and taking advantage of enemy vulnerabilities. Fleet of foot and skilled in combat, monks can navigate any battlefield with ease, aiding allies wherever they are needed most.
Yet everyone tries to play monks like they are fighters, rather than what they are designed to be played as - a 3/4 BAB non-full-caster who has a set of abilities designed to hinder enemies and make it easier for other people to kill them, rather than directly killing enemies themselves. The problem with monks tends to be the player's mindsets, more than anything mechanical.
I dealt with hags in an entirely different manner.
Changelings who are not witches become hags and thus NPCs in the same way that I would do to a character killed by shadows and becoming a shadow, or drained by wights and becoming a wight. The change in their mentality and personality destroys whatever spark was the PC.
Witches are another matter entirely.
What happens when a witch betrays her patron, or loses her patron's favor? There are only two things a patron gives a witch - knowledge....and a familiar. If they lose the patron's favor, they lose their spellcasting, and have only what little magic has become inherent to them - in effect, they become hags.
Ever notice how hags are adapted to their environs? Even the Black Annis is adapted to the outer planes she lairs in. Interestingly, there is a bit of fluff about elves also adapting to their environment. It's a few sentences in their racial description.
Then I realized....hags are elven witches who have lost contact and the grace of their patrons, becoming more and more tied to their environment and more and more dependent on what little magical talent they have left to them. The expansions of witches' hexes have only made it more and more obvious....
I disagree on this point though. By Level 20 the Wizard should have so many scrolls in her Handy Haversack that she needn't ever worry about not having the right spell.
If you calculate the amount of money a caster would spend on scrolls and wands to cover all those contingencies, it doesn't really work until mid-level. There's also the matter of time - the easy scrolls are not a problem to put out one or two a day, but after 3rd level it gets prohibitively time consuming and costly. You can only scribe one scroll per day in any case - which is fine if you are traveling or otherwise not concerned with time, but if you have to be ready in 4 days, having a double dozen scrolls such as you describe as every wizard must have is a very difficult endeavor. By level twenty anything that is a 4th level spell or lower and is a common use items will be in a wand, and sorcerers use those just fine. A sorcerer may not be able to make them easily, but he can still make them - a minus 5 to the spellcraft check isn't crippling.
Swinging a +45 longsword against a Turbodragon's 89 AC has little appeal for me. It's just regular D&D with bigger numbers.
The players avoid combat when they can. Bad things happen in combat. They have literally ended entire ecologies, and had that blow up in their face later.
No, the real appeal of Epic play is gettign to the point where I can actually reveal that the players, through their own actions, are personally responsible for the existence of the entire illithid race. I actually closed the loop of the paradox using my player's political motivations as the reason for the illithids to do the things which eventually become responsible for their entire race's existence.
Not even the illithids saw that one coming. (The Elder Brains? Maybe....)
Did anyone else read the spells that level 9 wizards can cast?
They can cast Time Stop! This means they'll get at least two rounds to do whatever they want. They could summon in two Balors, or even 2d4+4 wooden golems! Or they could cast Wish to change reality to better suit them! And what happens if they get all 4 rounds?!
How is this not overpowered? Is the party just supposed to run away or stand there while being balor'd to death? Or being killed by some nasty splinters? They can't even do that! They can't act for those rounds!
Anyone who disagrees with me is clearly an inane, not to mention insane, rambler who hasn't read the rules and I will ignore them.
....summon two Balors. Really. I'd love to see them eat your wizard.
That's part of what made Epic stuff useful to me as a GM. You see, the idea behind my epic level game was to have mortals contend against deities - not directly, but indirectly. But to do that, they would have to influence not merely continents, but entire planets and eventually entire planes of existence with their exploits. Ever widening rings of influence spreading from their works,. deeds, and desires, good and evil, countering and being countered by the efforts of gods, outsiders, and ancient abominations neither mortal no deific.
"Level caps" are for games which must spew more and more splat books to make the game not merely better, but simply playable. Paizo, so far, has done exactly what it should - make splatbooks flavorful, interesting, useful, but neither game breaking nor required. I've demonstrated to my players and to many grognards online that the deadliest things they can do, they can do with the APG and the Core book and nothing more.
I want to see that trend continue even with Epic and Mythic levels of play. I've used the current Epic rules to good effect, merely adding more bonuses to the feats that require bonuses by creating 'superior' and 'epic' versions of such feats as Weapon Focus, Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Disruptive, etc. to allow the characters to continue their growth without making them reliant solely on magic. But there IS room for expansion - epic class abilities for fighters would be an interesting idea, as would epic bloodline continuation for sorcerers. Spells actually was easy - Words of Power system made epic magic totally customizable without making them game-breaking.
My only concern, and it is a valid concern as proven so many times by so many OGL products, is that there is incompatibility with the actual CR system of PF.
I'm sure everyone recalls the Sword and Sorcery failures such as the "CR 2 creature with the spells of a 7th level druid and 5 hit dice".
Yes, you can do impossible things in e6, but that's true for even low-level characters. The fact is that the higher level you get, the more ridiculous the power level gets, so instead of pigeonholing martial characters into being 'mundane', they should develop into what are essentially superheroes as they level up.
A fighter with no magical equipment or weapons can kill things that normally require magic to even harm just using feats. It may take him longer, and it may get him hurt, but he CAN slay demons, dragons, devils, and other impossible to harm monsters without magic.
Overcoming their regeneration is harder, but even that is something he can manage with feats.
At high levels, a fighter IS superhuman and capable of impossible acts of destruction and death.
I look at these threads and kind of wonder what happened to the ability of a GM and a player to work out between them how a character might do certain things without deciding to overburden the game with more rules.
If a player needs to have his perceived power level or capabilities changed, there isn't anythign wrong with working something out. One suggestion, of being able to tell a creature's basic combat ability as a skill is one point of reference. A fighter, who has been trained in combat so thoroughly that he can often carve golems apart without magical assistance, or slay demons armed with just a sword, should be able to determine a monster's basic abilities in combat. Why not use the same mechanic as other abilities granted by class abilities, 10+1/2 the melee character's level modified by one of his mental stats - wisdom is the obvious, but there isn't any reason not to substitute intelligence. Most people will put at least a few points in wisdom to keep their fighter's will saves up. Make the DC equal to the monster's HD or CR rating. Make the information appropriate to the monster.
"...the glistening slime along the thing's tentacles isn't wholesome - in fact, with no claws or teeth to attack with, it's probably poisonous instead..." That's useful information without telling him that it's actually a transformation-inducing fluid on the aboleth's tentacles.
With the ability to fight powerful opponents strictly though the use of feats and their class abilities, and the ability to forge magical items such as Arms and Armor and Wondrous Items, you can have fighters who do things like craft the Doom of the Darksword, or have the Master of Weapons from the Shanarra series. They didn't have special, mystical abilities - one completely lacked magic, and the other was just good at killing everything. Giving them 'special powahs' is just trying to rehash the edition wars. I read this thread and see arguments used by 4e players in threads in other forums all the times.
In the end, it's a matter of what the player and GM work out between themselves. A fighter in AD&D just had damage, and number of attacks. But the wizard didn't - COULDN'T survive without him. Fighter's special abilities were always things the gamemaster gave to him for roleplaying reward, or things he worked with the GM to gain for himself through adventure. I can see the reasoning behind the arguments, and wanting to 'refluff' or 'give special abilities', but as it stands, PF is putting that power back in the GM's and the player's hands - where it belongs. the tools are already there. It would be far better to remind people that they can use them and how to use them, rather than trying to rebuild the system.
Yes. It's my single longest running campaign, being played on and off for well over 11 years, from levels 1-23 and then 10-31 through two generations of characters(Epic level PF, whoo boy....), and over what is now 3 iterations of the game system.
Ultimate Combat has made it more than perfectly viable - the instant I saw the gunslinger playtest I knew it would become part of the legacy of Spelljammers.
I have been using the Epic rules, with slight modification (and not nerfing but adding level limits and expanding on certain feat trees) that are in the core book.
It works well. As long as you scale up the feats that give +1 stacking bonuses and keep them at level limitations (Spell Focus, Weapon Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Specialization, penalty enhancers such as Disruptive, etc.) you can build up quite nicely. I even came up with Epic Spell creation using the Words of Power (increase the point total available to the wordsmith by +4 for each level of spell after 9th) to allow for epic spells, and bvecause they use he same mechanics for saves and such, they are not overpowered, only very pervasive in their scope.
And the fighter (just plain old simple no archetype fighter) doesn't care because he can kill any of those casters in 2 hits. He STILL is the most destructive force in the game. Doing 250+ points of damage a round with ease, melee or range, makes people very wary about annoying him. Monsters still manage to shrug off spells a third of the time, and it's all they need to start killing players quickly....if it weren't for that damned fighter carving chunks out of it.
Obviously, I would enjoy a book written by someone with a better grasp of how mechanics should work in actuality as opposed to by experienced but-still-largely guesswork.
Yeah, I would have to say that for the term "power creep" to have any solid meaning, it would have to mean that the "max" was increased a little in progressive amounts each time a book is released.
If you make something that used to be underpowered into somethign worthwhile, that really can't be called "power creep".
Maybe.. "fixing creep".
Although, in my opinion, the books paizo has released feel more like "fixing bursts". 3 major books and a lot of things feel "fixed". That's quite a lot different compared to 2 dozen books all slowly increasing power level across the board.
I agree here. There is too much "overpower/underpower/useless/must have" discussion to say the books are purely power creep. The experience in power creep that I have is solely "everything in this book tends to be better than the things before it".
Incidentally, the called shot against a bowstring is -20 to hit.
.....what, you didn't take into account they actually have rules for called shots now when trying to sunder a weapon? If you are attacking a specific point on a weapon that is a called shot. A called shot on a fine object that someone is wielding would be a nearly impossible shot, so -20 to hit. You also have to use a slashing weapon, as a general rule, because ropes - and string, being a kind of rope - has DR5/slashing, and magic weapons have higher numbers of hit points (and contrary to what people have been writing in this thread, a bowstring is part of a magic weapon, ergo making it magical as well - in fact, it must be a masterwork bowstring, and might conceivably be tougher than normal to begin with if it is made out od dragon sinew or purple worm gut).
Who in their right minds would think that anything good can come from using that? The no.2 option is about something that looks good but it isn't.
Touché.
Also Siege Mage is so hilariously bad that I can't even stand it.
That is true - right up until you are running Spelljammers, where a full 2/3 of all combat is ship to ship/really big monster, or if you are starting off playing a "evil empire slowly gobbling up territory" early on, when suddenly a young wizard's talent for manipulating complex devices becomes critical to the nations defense.
Likewise, if one is running a campaign where equipment of a magical nature is hard to get a hold of, a low magic campaign, or - frightening thought - a D4rk5un campaign, Vow of Poverty suddenly becomes a viable and useful choice, especially if one takes another vow or two along with it. Suddenly the self reliant monk is one of the best classes around.
It's like the Crane Style complaints I see - they apparently suck - unless you're playing a pacifist, someone who doesn't attack first, a monk who duels other warriors to learn their techniques (a staple in many wuxia films, I might add), or even a thoughtful warrior who tests his opponents by playing weak sister at first then hits them with things like Quivering Palm or a Vital Strike enabled Elemental Fist and half-kills his opposition in one blow.
Guess the designers are too busy with GenCon to answer my important question. It's funny, too, how all the gunslinger pics have two guns but no means of reloading without dropping one...
You mean aside from letting the cord catch it when she drops one?
If you look at a lot of real life old pistols and single shot black powder weapons they have lanyard strap catches in the butt of the gun for just that reason.
I am kind of curious why no one mentions the fact that rogues gain Skill Mastery Talent as a major benefit. Bards can take ten on any knowledge check, it is true....but Rogues can take 10 on as many skill as they have intelligence bonus - and that goes up as their bonus points go up. Further, those skills are not limited to knowledge - a rogue can take Skill Mastery multiple times and simply not need to roll on their skill checks. A skill-based rogue with Skill Mastery means that he automatically manages to do what he sets out to do in his area of expertise. With even three feats, he can increase anywhere from three to six skills by anywhere from 2-10 points of bonus depending on the feats, levels, and ranks spent.
While Shadow Strike is a feat tax, it removes the single biggest problem that rogues have, which is concealment=no sneak attacks. Another issue no one ever bothers to address is that Stealth can be used to defeat tremorsense and blindsight if one distracts the creature which has it (this trick will not work for people who are invisible; that's a sight based stealth modifier). If you are aware that a monster has tremorsense and it is aware of you, if you distract it with bluff (thunderstones or marbles work well for this), you CAN hide from them, just as you can use a distraction to hide from a creature looking at you. A rogue can get high enough scores to manage this, and with skill mastery, they can pretty much do it at will.
To all of you who say guns don't belong in a fantasy campaign, my Giff General, Gen. Franklin Victorio "Hazard" von Boom, smirks meaningfully in your direction from my Spelljammers campaign and offers his dueling credentials.
More to the point, I am looking forward to the gunslinger classes, and know that my players are looking forward to all of them.
I suspect that there is a sorcerer bloodline based on The Way of the Gun already in existence.
Base 10+Full Plate Armor+2 (+11) + Large Metal Shield +2 (+4) +Dex (13, very reasonable for a fighter)(+1)=AC 26 at 7th level after pending a mere 9800 (app.x) out of about 23,000 on magical armor and shield for a fighter.
This is not too unusual, no. Even if the fighter splurged and spent an 4000 on a Ring of Protection +1 and an Amulet of Natural Armor +1 for an AC of 28, that finally might hamper his magical weapons of other magical gear - and that's without the magical buff of a Mage Armor spell.
Also, remember that the Eidolon has the vulnerability of the Summoner. While it may not seem like a vulnerability, when you start hammering on the Eidolon's summoner, he starts draining its hit points....and unlike the fighter, only the Summoner can heal the eidolon, and only if he has the spells memorized. Eidolons never heal naturally.
Party used the un-errata'd version on a purple worm last night. It was the first time I'd ever seen it, so I interpreted it that you save every round to see whether you hurt yourself (as a free action) or do nothing.
We all thought it was hilarious that it was better to fail the save than succeed on it.
The purple worm with his +4 Will save failed most of the time, and we also loved the idea that a massive worm, filled with remorse, was self-harming at 1d8+12 per round whilst trying to pound the party to pieces.
Is there anything in the RAW to suggest purple worms are immune to [emotion] spells? In my opinion the only emotions they feel are "hungry" and "not-quite-so-hungry".
It actually has an intelligence of one, so, nothing RAW.
It's still not as powerful as Bestow Curse, where you permanently suffer a 50% chance to do nothing at all every single round. Also, doing nothing doesn't mean you are helpless, so there isn't any coup de grace, and you o not lose your dex bonus, so no sneak attacks or precision damage bonuses that rely on it.
Which is one of the reasons I'm against post-20th level rules...as that allows for mortals who can rather indiscriminately kill demon lords, archdevils, and similar beings. Frankly, I think the bar for them is set too low by for for even the existing 1-20 levels framework.
Once you're at 20th level, nothing you do should be indiscriminate.
Depends on the campaign style. If it is sandbox, then 20th level is pretty much a license to indiscriminately do whatever the hell you want. Who's going to prevent it?
My players thought that at one time.
I ran a Spelljammers campaign from 1st to 23rd level, encompassing ten years or real time play - not contiguous, but close enough that I had almost the exact same people and characters I started with - and spanning all two iterations of D&D, from 2e to 2e+splats to 3.5, and now in PF.
The first thing they learned about 'indiscriminate' is that it makes enemies. And not all enemies are the same level or have the time or need to deal with you the same way you previously tried to deal with them. When you slaughter the priests of a temple for the purpose of expediently proving that the surrounding population should listen to you, you make enemies not only of that religious group, but all the government that supported it, the deities they serve, the divine forces that are allied with that group, the political allies of the government and religion, and more.
For my personally played out example, when you serve the illithid's ambassador as soup to his replacement, you can be fairly certain that the reason many of your enemies are immune to mind magic and tend to have psychic talent above and beyond the norm, that so many people happen to end up with psionically empowered arrows and weapons of wizard and elf bane, is that you may have made a faux pas in taking that course of action no matter how you justify it. Currently, they're 31st level and they have just now discovered that the existence of illithids is entirely their fault because they declared a secret war on the illithid race when they were 13th level, giving people illithid slaying weaponry, bane items, and such. As a result the illithids taught forbidden powers and abilities to humans who wanted more power quickly, creating a psionic bloodline feat set - specifically, the illithid bloodline feats and aberration feats - and that eventually, these people who have been taught will become the illithid race.
You know, that race of people who went back in time as their empire waned to escape the heat death of the universe? The ones who WILL end up ruling the universe because of what the players did?
Their fault. Because they were indiscriminate.
Full Name
Goresk Trulk
Race
Human Weapon Master Fighter 1/Antipaladin 1|HP13/13|AC16(T11 FF15)|CMD15|F+4R+1W+3|Init+3|Per+5
Goresk Trulk
CE Human Fighter(Weapon Master) 1/Antipaladin of Deskari 1
Init +3; Senses Perception +2
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 16, Touch 11, Flat-Footed 15 (+5 armor, +1 dex)
HP 13 (1d10+3)
Fort +4; Ref +1, Will +3
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.; 20 ft in armor
Melee scythe +5 (2d4+7/x4) or gauntlet +4 (1d3+3/x2)
Ranged shortbow +2 (1d6/x3) 60ft
Special Attacks smite good 1/day (+3 attack rolls, +3 deflection, +1 damage rolls, +2 on first damage roll versus outsider with good subtype, good-aligned dragon, or a good creature with levels of cleric or paladin, bypasses any DR)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 17, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 16
Base Atk +1; CMB +4; CMD 15
Feats Furious Focus, Weapon Focus (Scythe), weapon versatility,
Feat Tax Feats Power Attack, deadly aim
Skills bluff [1] +7; perception [1] +2
Background Skills handle animal [1] +7; engineering [1] +3
Languages common, hallit, abyssal
Traits Region: Abyssal Eavesdropper; Race: Wary of Danger; Combat: Armor Expert
SQ smite good, code of conduct, detect good, aura of evil, skilled
Favored Class +1 HP
Combat Gear scythe, scale mail, shortbow, arrows (20), acid flask (3)
Other Gear masterwork backpack, bedroll, canteen, flint & steel, unholy text, unholy symbol, mess kit, trail rations (5), silk rope, explorer's outfit, belt pouch containing 72 gp 4 sp
Background Questions:
1. What is your character’s name? My name is Goresk Trulk, son of Dren Trulk.
2. How old is your character? I have seen 26 bitter winters.
3. What would somebody see at first glance (i.e. height, weight, skin color, eye color, hair color, physique, race, and visible equipment)? Did your men not jot this information down? I am a five-foot, eleven human. I normally keep my head shaved but, your guards have allowed it to grow out some. I bet that I would have a darker complexion if I spent less time…working at night. My armor was made to look like bug chiton, the helmet with horns like that of a beetle. I'm guessing both the armor and the helm have been sold off to fund your war effort.
4. What additional attributes would be noticed upon meeting the character (i.e. Speech, mannerisms)? Look, just because I didn't get a fancy education like you nobles playing knights doesn't mean I can't be persuasive when I wanna. Maybe it's my rippling muscles, or the way I roll my r's. Could be that they sense that I'm a "salt of the earth" kinda guy.
5. Where was your character born? Where were you raised? By who? I was born right here in Kenabres. I've spent my entire life watching as crusaders flood my city under the false pretense of saving the world from the demon horde. After the murder of my parents, I was left to fend for myself in a city of self-righteous heroes who didn't care for an orphan child on the streets.
6. Who are your parents? Are they alive? What do they do for a living? When I was young my parents were falsely accused of worshipping baphomet. I watched from the shadows as people prayed to Iomedae while lashing my parents' arms to a pair of horses. I wept as Shelynites sang songs while my parents' legs were tied to two other horses. And my blood boiled as Abadar's clergy recited laws while the horses were urged to run in 4 different directions.
7. Do you have any other family or friends? There are others who share my opinions but you'll have a tough time trying to get their names from me.
8. What is your character’s marital status? Kids? What sort of creature would willingly marry me? I think I'd not wish to meet such a being...no, I am not married. Kids? I would never do something so cruel as to bring another life into this world.
9. What is your character’s alignment? You mean you haven't brought in your paladins and your clerics to find that out? Fine, if you want it from me directly, chaotic evil.
10. What is your character’s moral code? Interested in Deskari's scripture, are you? Fine. The Lord of the Locust Host tells us that the needs of the many far outweigh the needs of the few. What does matter if a few dozen vermin are crushed if the swarm survives? I would prefer to see His plans come true, I will gladly give my life if it means the swarm grows stronger.
11. Does your character have goals? I long to see your crusaders crushed beneath the weight of the horde. To watch as they are fed to Deskari's swarms and used to strengthen his numbers. Perhaps one day Deskari may even bless me personally.
12. Is your character religious? I meet with others who share my beliefs. We play dice and sip tea while our children play with puppies...If you're asking where our temple is, I won't betray their trust and tell you.
13. What are your character’s personal beliefs? Most good people are not. People, especially humans, will abandon any morals to save their own skin. I'd be fine with that fact if they didn't spend every waking moment preaching self-sacrifice.
14. Does your character have any personality quirks (i.e. anti-social, arrogant, optimistic, paranoid)? I have no "quirks". I'm a perfect example of a true believer.
15. Why does your character adventure? To spread Deskari's influence, of course. I've seen the eggs implanted among Mendev and I've heard of some implanted elsewhere as well. I just want to give them the best nest to hatch into.
16. How does your character view his/her role as an adventurer? Maybe in a different life I could have followed my parents' footsteps and served the holy warriors. I could've been like them and washed the blood and ichor from linens or mended banners. And I too could've been falsely [/b] accused of working against the crusaders. No, no I think I much prefer this life.
17. Does your character have any distinguishing marks (birth-marks, scars, deformities)? No, I bear no scars or markings. My flesh is perfectly normal. And it disgusts me.
18. How does your character get along with others? For the swarm to survive, we must work together.
19. Is there anything that your character hates? When the "devout" hide behind ideologies in order to commit atrocities under the guise of holiness.
20. Is there anything that your character fears? I fear rotting in the cell, forgotten and serving no purpose, while the world continues on without me.
Why Am I in Prison?:
What? You want me to confess my crimes? Was it not enough that I was caught at the scene of the crime? Fine. I suppose in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter anyway.
Four years ago I heard that the man who originally accused my parents of their demon worship had finally come back to Kenabres. No, I won't say his name. He doesn't deserve to have his name recorded. Yes, I see you, scrivener, scratching away on your paper. Jotting down everything I say. I don't care if you were just trying to keep an accurate record. I won't say his name.
It didn't take long for me to track him down. I overheard him at a tavern talking about how the last time he was here he routed out a pair of cultists. F~!!ing idiot. But then he went on about how over the years when he was away from the city he found a pretty wife and he had two pretty children and they all wore very pretty clothes.
But something had to be wrong in that family, right? I mean, who drags their family along to the edge of the Worldwound? Unless there was a reason to leave your family alone.
I started by sewing the seeds of doubt about his wife's faithfulness. A rumor here, a too-personal note left there. It was pretty easy. See, the thing they don't tell you about people who are constantly hunting secrets: they wind up finding phantom secrets too. So, when he found the secret journal she kept tucked away which detailed her love for another man and how she prayed to Asmodeus that he never would discover their daughters' true father it threw him into a wonderful fit of rage. Of course this tiefling, their "real father", didn't exist. But you know, nothing quite like a little bit of holy racism to help things along.
After the Mrs. had her unfortunate fall - you know, the one where she definitely wasn't shoved over the balcony - he became a grieving widower and the sole parent to two pretty children. I don't know if he was just worried that the deaths of the kids would create too much suspicion or if he really did feel some sort of parental bond to them but, it took another year or so of pushing and prodding for me to get him to off them too. And boy oh boy did he do it with flair! Some sort of cleansing ritual that involved burning the corruption out of the living flesh. To children no less! And I thought the demons were the evil ones.
Then it was just a matter of letting his wounds fester. For two years I watched with glee as he became a hollow shell of the [I]upstanding citizen that he once was. His friends grew suspicious and left him. The ones he had once hunted demons with, abandoned him. And none of the mercenary bands would take him on. And when his coin dried up he had no way of leaving the city. He was trapped and alone and it was delicious!
Anyway, I followed him home (home being a pile of burlap blankets tucked under a bridge) from the tavern one night. He was still sober mind you. A day’s worth of begging in this city only earns a small amount. No matter how much charity you hear about. He crawled under into his little nest like the vermin he was and I watched from the shadows. I watched as he shivered and tried to sleep. Hours went by and I watched. Whenever his body would relax and exhaustion was about to take him I’d poke his feet with a little knife.
Eventually, I grew tired of the game. I grabbed him by his ankles and dragged the wriggling worm from his nest. I stood over him and told him everything I had done. Everything he had done. When he asked “Why?” I told him. But, if i’m being honest with you, by that point it was more about my enjoyment over seeing my plans finally hatching so successfully and less about revenge. When he started weeping, I knelt beside him. I wanted to see the fear, the anguish, the hate in his eyes!
Once I had my fill, I gripped his matted hair with my fist and slammed the back of his head into the cobblestones. Over and over. But he didn’t fight me! The bastard didn’t even have the decency to fight back! And I lost my temper. I kept slamming his skull into the stones. Over and over and over. How long? Oh, I can’t be sure but it must’ve been for some time. After all, when your men found me the sun was beginning to peak over the rooftops.
So, there you have it. Anything else you would like from me? Can I go back to my cell now? I slept better last night than I have in a very, [i]very[/] long time.
What do you mean “Now you’re never leaving”? I didn’t think that was an option. I murdered a man in the streets! ...Oh...yes, I imagine the punishment for “interfering with a crime scene” is far less severe than murder. How was I supposed to know that they hadn’t seen what I had done? Can you please just take me away now? This is...embarrassing.
Feats and Traits:
Power Attack - Feat Tax
You can make exceptionally deadly melee attacks by sacrificing accuracy for strength.
Prerequisites: Str 13, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by +2. You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.
Deadly Aim - Feat Tax
You can make exceptionally deadly ranged attacks by pinpointing a foe’s weak spot, at the expense of making the attack less likely to succeed.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all ranged attack rolls to gain a +2 bonus on all ranged damage rolls. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every +4 thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by +2. You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.
Furious Focus
Even in the midst of fierce and furious blows, you can find focus in the carnage and your seemingly wild blows strike home.
Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: When you are wielding a two-handed weapon or a one-handed weapon with two hands, and using the Power Attack feat, you do not suffer Power Attack’s penalty on melee attack rolls on the first attack you make each turn. You still suffer the penalty on any additional attacks, including attacks of opportunity.
Weapon Focus (Scythe)
Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for the purposes of this feat.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.
Weapon Versatility
You can use your favored weapons in unconventional ways.
Prerequisites: Weapon Focus, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: When wielding a weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you can shift your grip as a swift action so that your weapon deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage instead of the damage type normally dealt by that weapon. You may switch back to the weapon’s normal damage type or another damage type as a swift action. If your base attack bonus is +5 or higher, using this feat is a free action instead.
---------------------------------------
Abyssal Eavesdropper
Category Region
Requirement(s) Sarkoris or the Worldwound
Having grown up near the Worldwound, you have a rough understanding of the demons’ guttural babble. You add Abyssal to your list of languages known, though you take a –2 penalty on Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Bluff checks made while speaking Abyssal, as well as a –2 penalty on Linguistics checks made to read Abyssal text. If you gain Abyssal as a language again at a later time (such as by taking a rank in Linguistics and selecting Abyssal as a learned language), these skill check penalties become +2 trait bonuses instead.
Wary of Danger
Category Race
Requirement(s) Human—Kellid
Your people are beset on all sides by threats, and you have developed a keen sense for danger. You gain a +2 trait bonus on initiative checks
Armor Expert
Category Combat
You have worn armor as long as you can remember, either as part of your training to become a knight’s squire or simply because you were seeking to emulate a hero. Your childhood armor wasn’t the real thing as far as protection, but it did encumber you as much as real armor would have, and you’ve grown used to moving in such suits with relative grace.
Benefit: When you wear armor of any sort, reduce that suit’s armor check penalty by 1, to a minimum check penalty of 0.
