Midnight Phil's page

Kelly Livesy wrote:

I've been skimming the Archives of Nethys 2E rules, and so far I gotta say there's nowhere near enough customization yet to tempt me into a purchase. If I read correctly, the *only* archetype material available in the core rulebook are the multiclass feats, which—I hate to say this—strongly, strongly reminded me of 4E D&D's multiclass feat thing, which I hated. I keep hearing talk of this debut being packed with content, and if what's meant by this is that the fundamental rules are different then sure. But insofar as depth of variety and customization? It's a boilerplate set of classes and races. That's fine for new players, but until there's substantially more content (and something to judge the new archetype system by that isn't just the crappy multiclass structure) I'm nowhere near to making a purchase.

It's a CORE Rule Book. You can't expect the customization of PF1 at the end of the edition. Try to recall the PF1 CORE Rule Book, not a great deal of customization back then. Archetypes were not a thing for example and if you had played 3e D&D (not even 3,5) chance is the system differences would be too small for you to notice.

That said, keep in mind the more you make something "customizable" the more the game system risks to be broken and things suddenly start looking all very similar DESPITE the potential for customization.

I understand that it's a core rulebook, and I understand that the game will expand customization as it goes on. But not only do I think it's reasonable to expect a comparatively more developed archetype system in the first book given that it's arguably the most distinguishing mechanical aspect of the first edition—one of the ideas behind this new edition is that it carries forward the learned successes of the previous edition—but customization is one of the launch selling points for 2E. Right here on the Paizo website is this line of copy for the launch:

"Endlessly Customizable: Pathfinder has the deep character customization you love, with three simple choices during character creation unlocking more than 75,000 unique characters. You’ll continue to make meaningful customization choices as you level up, creating your perfect character."

If they're going to sell themselves on customization right out of the gate, then I think it's fair to comment on this facet of the product. I'm not saying the game won't grow with time or that I'm writing it off forevermore, but so far I'm unmoved as a potentially purchasing customer.

I've been skimming the Archives of Nethys 2E rules, and so far I gotta say there's nowhere near enough customization yet to tempt me into a purchase. If I read correctly, the *only* archetype material available in the core rulebook are the multiclass feats, which—I hate to say this—strongly, strongly reminded me of 4E D&D's multiclass feat thing, which I hated. I keep hearing talk of this debut being packed with content, and if what's meant by this is that the fundamental rules are different then sure. But insofar as depth of variety and customization? It's a boilerplate set of classes and races. That's fine for new players, but until there's substantially more content (and something to judge the new archetype system by that isn't just the crappy multiclass structure) I'm nowhere near to making a purchase.

Hey Skeld, is there anything in this book that might appeal to Warlock Vigilantes? Magic items, feats, talents?

Insain Dragoon wrote:

Apparently according so some random podcast or something the Vigilante class itself is going to combine the Rogue and Fighter variants into the base class then make the Wizard and Cleric variants into actual archetypes.

Iirc, it that information was said by Jason at a con. Also, I am sooooo thankful that they are doing that. Sounds much better than the playtest.

Does anyone have a link to this podcast/con comment? I'd love to check that out. I really dig the potential and flavor of the Vigilante class and I like a lot of the talents I saw for the Warlock, but like others here I had a lot of reservations about the playtest. I'm very curious about the final product (I maaaaaaaay be playing a city-based game after this comes out).

Quick couple of thoughts on the Warlock:

- Requiring 8 hours of rest to regain spells makes it very difficult to maintain two identities. It's an issue of time. I was playing around with a build because my GM will eventually be running a city-based campaign, and I love the idea of this class. But I'll have a heck of a time managing the "Bruce Wayne by day, Batman by night" sort of flavor if I have to rest for 8 unbroken hours. The playtest has already offered a mix of spontaneous and prepared casting as a boon; perhaps removing the resting period would sweeten this particular specialization further?

- Making spells into a tiered progression of talents intrigues me because of how different it is, but it doesn't seem like the sort of thing one dabbles in. Because you have to take the spell talents in order and because many low-level spells will eventually become obsolete, it's hard to mix n' match it with other talents. It seems to be the sort of thing you either commit to or avoid 100%. This seems to be a bit contrary to the idea of a talent pool.