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Haha ya this is actually the only thread I could see about it. Imagine that!

The Exchange

So:

“The cave druid gains this ability at 6th level, except that her effective druid level for this ability is equal to her druid level – 2. She cannot use wild shape to adopt a plant form. At 10th level, the cave druid can assume the form of a Small or Medium ooze as if using beast shape III, AND at 12th level that of a Tiny or Large ooze as if using beast shape IV (treating the ooze as if it were a magical beast without a natural armor bonus). When in ooze form, the cave druid has no discernible anatomy and is immune to poison, sneak attacks, and critical hits.”

Since the ability uses the inclusionary connector AND, and does not exclude the previous fragment by using exclusionary language such as NOR, BUT, HOWEVER, RATHER, INSTEAD, CAN ONLY or more of a mouthful like CONVERSELY, and the two fragments are not separated by a period or semi-colon, instead using just a comma, there are at least two primary syntactical arguments that support the following argument:

A level 10 Cave Druid has the ability to turn into a Small or Medium ooze as if using Beast Shape 3, AND a level 12 Cave Druid can turn into a Tiny, Small, Medium, or Large Ooze using Beast Shape 3 (although that would be a little silly) or Beast Shape 4.

That’s my interpretation of the rules as written. There are many examples across Paizo Publishing that suggest they are aware of exclusionary connectors, when describing the limitations of class abilities, spells, and special and extraordinary abilities. If they wanted to limit Level 12 Cave Druids from turning into a Carnivorous Crystal, or other medium oozes, using Beast Shape 4 with all of the niceties it grants, they easily could have used a more exclusionary connector or even a period within the ability’s text to show that they were indeed meant to be separate and distinct abilities.

The natural progression of more powerful beast shapes contained within the original Druid Wild Shape abilities also suggests they RAI wanted to allow Level 12 Cave Druids the ability to turn into Small and Medium Oozes using Beast Shape 4.

However, they surely were not thinking about a Conqueror Ooze Build when writing this. A GM, and also the player, should be careful with that power unless the players are getting completely trampled. So, as a GM, giving a player a go ahead to do 256 damage in one hit with an improved natural slam/strongjaw/true strike/reckless abandon/furious finish is one thing, ya you could one hit a boss with that, but that should be the go to for the player if he needs to save the day, not ruin the day. So ya grab those resistances with Beast Shape 4, but don’t come to my game and kill my boss in one hit and laugh that you’ve hacked the game. With great power comes great responsibility. ;)

The Exchange

Lifat wrote:
If it stacked, the energy resistance of aasimars and tieflings would be far more powerful. But as the others said, it is a bit like wearing two kinds of armor. Only the highest one applies.

Source for this? Big argument at my game table.

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I was the Ezren player in the delve with Schmendrick. I watched Ryan eat that character sheet. With Vigor, mind you. I believe it was a will save I failed, along with a failed attack roll (but really, wizards love failing attack rolls with their massively high BAB, especially ray wizards), and then another failed will save, and every other two minutes, a DC Ryan Macklin save.

The DC Ryan Macklin save. Well how can I explain the inherent fun of this type of save. Lets say you were playing Monopoly against yourself and executed a game winning Boardwalk trade, only realizing later that you gained nothing and also just f***ed yourself. A no win big lose situation.

Strictly speaking in game terms what would this save compare to you ask? Maybe a Rogue's save against a Phantasmal Killer would be somewhat close. Or a save against indefinite paralysis in the pre-Aniversary Runelords Skinsaw Man fight (and, coincidentally, in a secret underground cavern where no one would ever find your party to resurrect you). Or how about a save to actually not lose in one of James Jacobs' Cthulhu games? No mercy. You asked for the worst. So you get Ryan.

It feels good, like a solid slap from one of the hottest girls at your old high school (you know the one), where yes, she noticed you and touched your face, but yes she also devoured a large part of your ego. But you're getting some quick palm-to-face action, right? Like some quick delve action. Like that.

Or perhaps the sound of a car stereo system that is designed to be super cool and loud like the whole world knows you are coming, but loud enough that your ears bleed and you go deaf shortly thereafter but you're okay with that. Yep. Like you brought it on yourself when you sat down at that delve. The bleeding. The anticipation. The sweet embrace of insistent death. You want Ryan to eat your character sheet. You want to fail that save!

There is a small part of me that wanted to win that delve. At the same time, getting turned into a goblin was amazing. I don't think I would have enjoyed dying as much as if I was just a normal Ezren. Goblin Ezren knows how to drop it. I wanted the grizzly death of the Ryan Macklin save. Peace sells ... but who's buying? Not this Ezren.

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If you wanna start using the build early with any class, look for some cheap Dimension Door Scrolls (or buy a Wand if you have the money) and pump your Use Magic Device up with the Skilled. The Dimensional Agility feat says you just have to have the ability to cast the spell, not have the spell on your class list.

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I can't do two swifts in a turn. No more vanish at the end of my Wesker Dervish. This makes me a sad panda.

The Exchange

At level 13, Hungry Ghost Monk (high DEX and WIS) with Abundant Step and Sipping Demon, with and a pair of Butterfly Swords with Agile Keen +1 to drain the Ki and HP super fast. Take 3 to 5 Ninja levels to add in that Sneak Attack dmg and Vanish just before your last abundant step to confuse the poor lad. One word. Wesker.