Dimensional Savant build


Advice

1 to 50 of 58 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Silver Crusade

Is level 15 the fastest level to get the feat Dimensional Savant?

My build is 8 levels of Sorcerer for 4th level spells, and 7 levels of fighter (unarmed archtype for monk weapons and Crane Style).

If there's a faster way to get it, lemme know.


A War Scholar Monk can get Abundant Step and Dimensional Agility at level 7, with a BAB of +5.
Two levels of Fighter will give Dimensional Assault and Dimensional Dervish, so a 7th level War Scholar/4th level Fighter could get the set complete at level 11.


could just go full magus for blade dash + DD/dimensional savant shenanigans.

also, @VRMH: where exactly can one find this war scholar archetype?


Honestly, when I read Dimensional Savant, it seemed like a fun feat to cap off a bard/rogue building into Arcane Trickster. The "flank all the things" aspect of Dimensional Savant looks like it'd better benefit a magical character with sneak attack or another class feature that benefits from the flanking itself. That, or as a silly way to help out a party where everyone else is a rogue.


Well, the simple approach is Wizard / Fighter 1 / Eldritch Knight....

You would get to BAB +9 by 12th level, and would be able to take Dimensional Agility at 9th level. But you'd need more levels for all those feats...

I guess if you were willing to delay BAB progression more, you could go Wiz 7 before multiclassing at all. That'd let you take Dim Agility at 7. Assault at 9, Dervish at 11, Savant at 13, which is also exactly when you'd hit BAB +9. That actually works out quite nicely.


AndIMustMask wrote:
@VRMH: where exactly can one find this war scholar archetype?

Here. I should have mentioned it's 3rd party material though.


My favorite way to get it is to take a monk or ranger into horizon walker to get dimension door as a spell like ability. BAB isn't an issue, so you can have the whole like by 11 (IIRC). Also it's only a 3 level dip and it opens the door for horizon walker shenanigans.

Silver Crusade

The key is Dimensional Agility at level 7 or bonus feats that allow you to take these feats.

So far the winner is Wizard 7/Fight 1/EK...


Synthesist Summoner is actually rather good at getting these feats. Get pounce so then you only need the first two feats of the tree unless you REALLY need the self-flanking.


Brad McDowell wrote:

The key is Dimensional Agility at level 7 or bonus feats that allow you to take these feats.

So far the winner is Wizard 7/Fight 1/EK...

If casting a spell from a wand counts, then you could go for a pure martial class with UMD and be eligible by level 9.

The key here is whether or not using a wand counts as casting a spell. AFAIK there has been no FAQ on this, so you would have to approach your DM to see if he's agreeable.


Gavmania wrote:
Brad McDowell wrote:

The key is Dimensional Agility at level 7 or bonus feats that allow you to take these feats.

So far the winner is Wizard 7/Fight 1/EK...

If casting a spell from a wand counts, then you could go for a pure martial class with UMD and be eligible by level 9.

The key here is whether or not using a wand counts as casting a spell. AFAIK there has been no FAQ on this, so you would have to approach your DM to see if he's agreeable.

If wands were to count, you'd also be letting wands count for PrCs. Personally, I think that could get pretty broken.

Silver Crusade

Gav, that sounds a bit on the cheese side.

Synthesist Summoner gets Dim Door at 6th level with Maker's Jump. So it can have Dim Agility at 7 and ties for fastest to get to Dim Savant with the Wizard 7/Fight 1/EK...build, at level 13.


oh hey, found another quick way--ranger or rogue (or slayer if you're using ACG playtest stuff) 6 / horizon walker 3 and then the rest in the first class you chose.

rogue lets you grab extra feats via the rogue talents Combat Trick and Feat. (dimensional agility at 9th when you get DimDoor, dimensional assault at 11th, dimensional dervish at 13th, and then dimensional savant at 13th via the Feat advanced talent). flanking with yourself eliminates the need for others with sneak attack as well!

you can get it at 15th with the ranger in a similar manner.

Silver Crusade

but the Dim feats aren't combat feats.

Edit: Nevermind, I see it.


Brad McDowell wrote:
but the Dim feats aren't combat feats.

the Feat advanced talent isnt restricted to combat feats.

though i shouldnt have listed combat trick (it might confuse folks), i does help alleviate the lack of general rogue combat stuff.

Silver Crusade

Right on. Also, Rogue can mean Ninja as well, if anyone were inclined to build this.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

If your DM allows Retraining, you can get it as early as 9th level. Take the Horizon Walker route listed above and take 3 'burner' feats, like quick draw, toughness, and improved initiative, and when you hit 9th level, drop 27,000 gp and 15 days on retraining, and boom, there you go!


Master of the Dark Triad wrote:
Gavmania wrote:
Brad McDowell wrote:

The key is Dimensional Agility at level 7 or bonus feats that allow you to take these feats.

So far the winner is Wizard 7/Fight 1/EK...

If casting a spell from a wand counts, then you could go for a pure martial class with UMD and be eligible by level 9.

The key here is whether or not using a wand counts as casting a spell. AFAIK there has been no FAQ on this, so you would have to approach your DM to see if he's agreeable.

If wands were to count, you'd also be letting wands count for PrCs. Personally, I think that could get pretty broken.

I've been thinking about this, and really it's no more broken than allowing SLA's to count as spells for the purposes of qualifying for a Feat or PrC (Which they now do). It wouldn't even be OP since the PrC's in question are largely underwhelming without this ruling.

Not sure about the early qualification for Feats; I've not seen a Dimensional Savant build in play so I couldn't tell whether getting it a couple of levels earlier makes a huge difference, though being able to do so without taking any levels in an arcane class may be OP.

IIRC, there is a ruling that a migic item has to available for use any time over a 24 hour period in order for it to be used to qualify for a Feat. This would disallow UMD (since it can only be used when you succeed on your roll), unless you have a rogue with Skill Mastery in UMD - but that's 10th level anyway, so hardly OP. (Or a 19th level Bard with Jack-of-all-trades - again, hardly OP).

The only way I can see a non-arcane using wands without UMD is if they are a half elf with Arcane training, so only a very limited build would be able to apply it anyway. To do so, they effectively have to give up their favoured Class bonus (It is applied to an Arcane class that you would have no levels in).

To be honest, I like the Dimensional Savant Feat, but if you can't access it until level 11 then it severely diminishes the utility of the build. Level 9 would be more appealing; those 2 levels tipping it from unattainable to passably attainable IMHO. The fact that you can do so as a pure Martial class is a big bonus but could actually make it a viable build.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Travel Domain cleric qualifies for Agility at 7 and doesn't need to multiclass to make a decent melee character. You will probably want to use the Theologian archetype or find another way to cast domain spells more than once per day.


ooh, good find, corlindale.


Corlindale wrote:


Travel Domain cleric qualifies for Agility at 7 and doesn't need to multiclass to make a decent melee character. You will probably want to use the Theologian archetype or find another way to cast domain spells more than once per day.

Sure, but there are 3 other feats in the chain and no way of getting bonus feats, so you won't be getting Dimensional Savant until level 13 (Which is actually the earliest Feat after you reach BAB+9 anyway).

OTOH a Wizard (Teleportation) can get Dimensional agility at 1st level. They are only then constrained by the speed with which they can get to +9 BAB (1 level Wizard +9levels Martial = +9BAB). That's 10th level at the earliest, and the next feat is available at 11th level.

Unless you are allowed to retrain your feats, level 11 is still the earliest possible.

Unless we are allowed to claim spells cast from a wand as qualification for this feat chain, there is no way of getting it earlier.

Silver Crusade

Actually got around to a Ninja/Horizon Walker build...
As a human, he'll get 5 more feats and 5 ninja tricks. The master trick at ninja level 10, remember, is Dimensional Savant. Here's my first draft...

Feats
2Weapon Fighting, dual wielding waki's
Weapon Focus, waki
Power Attack
Desperate Battler
Critical Focus

Tricks
Bleeding Attack
Darkvision
Feather Fall
Shadow Clone
Vanishing Trick

This build is crazy MAD. Even using a 25 point buy, I'm still dumping INT. And he's probably making an appearance as a BBEG's trusted evil-doer.

Any tweaks in tricks would be appreciated. I think I'm pretty set on the feats though.


You could do it as an oracle who actually takes Improved Eldritch Heritage at 11 and grabs Dimension Door with New Arcana from the Arcane Bloodline. Not sure why you would want to but it could be done.

I suspect I would only ever do something like that with a Battle Oracle as they also come with a bunch of freebie feats. They could also try and pick up spell perfection at 15+ to make quickened Dimension Door a level 4 spell. The EK can do the same giving them a form of long range pounce ignoring intervening enemies or terrain.

Silver Crusade

Revised:

Feats
2Weapon Fighting, dual wielding waki's
Weapon Focus, waki
Power Attack
Desperate Battler
Endurance (required for Horizon Walker)

Tricks
Darkvision
Shadow Clone
Vanishing Trick
Bleeding Attack
Combat Trick Improved Critical


Brad McDowell wrote:

Actually got around to a Ninja/Horizon Walker build...

As a human, he'll get 5 more feats and 5 ninja tricks. The master trick at ninja level 10, remember, is Dimensional Savant. Here's my first draft...

Feats
2Weapon Fighting, dual wielding waki's
Weapon Focus, waki
Power Attack
Desperate Battler
Critical Focus

Tricks
Bleeding Attack
Darkvision
Feather Fall
Shadow Clone
Vanishing Trick

This build is crazy MAD. Even using a 25 point buy, I'm still dumping INT. And he's probably making an appearance as a BBEG's trusted evil-doer.

Any tweaks in tricks would be appreciated. I think I'm pretty set on the feats though.

It really shouldnt be all that super MAD.

Str 10
Dex 18+2
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 14

Simply get Agile Wakizashis and boom.


I second the feat retraining idea. Get some feats that are useless in the long run, but help for the lowbie levels, then retrain them all out as soon as you get access to DD.

Physically possible to have it at level 7.

Silver Crusade

Esper, your stats would limit him to 3 dim doors per day. Need the Wisdom for the one trick pony.


How many combats per day are you fighting?

Silver Crusade

My original answer, Esper, was...let's not assume a 15 minute adventuring day.

Just kidding, but remember I said he was a BBEG's lackey. I want him to dart in and out of combats (run away if need be), and have around 6 uses of the ability. That's a +3 in Wisdom. A headband would certainly solve this problem however.

The Exchange

At level 13, Hungry Ghost Monk (high DEX and WIS) with Abundant Step and Sipping Demon, with and a pair of Butterfly Swords with Agile Keen +1 to drain the Ki and HP super fast. Take 3 to 5 Ninja levels to add in that Sneak Attack dmg and Vanish just before your last abundant step to confuse the poor lad. One word. Wesker.


While we're at it...The Conuration (Teleport) Wizard's Shift ability doesn't qualify for Dimensional Agility, but it does benefit from it, right?


Can you use teamwork feats with yourself this way?


I think that, in accordance with what others have said, feat retraining is the only way to get a really "good" character out of this.

That being said, without that, if that's impossible, most viable build for this that I see is:

Druid (Wolf Shaman) 8 lets you choose the travel domain, so you can start taking the feats at level 7

Then into Horizon Walker at levels 9-11, for the dimension door. Since your WIS-dependent from Druid, you should get many uses.

To plan ahead, I would take Shaping Focus for my 5th level feat, so that my Wild Shape kept increasing during the Horizon Walker Levels. After 11, I would go back into Druid until at least Druid 10, to get the best forms out of Druid. There's nothing for you in the class abilities after 12th, so you may want to look for just a prestige class that advances spellcasting after that.

Magical Knack is recommended trait for this build.

Silver Crusade

Rudy, that build is all kinds of fantastic. Good find.


Here's what I would do, in specific.

N Human
Str 17 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 15 Cha 7
(the truly min-max of mind could dump Int, too, or drop dex/con by 2 to pump strength more).

First point into strength, then wisdom, then whichever you like.
Druid 1: Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning
Druid 2:
Druid 3: Endurance
Druid 4:
Druid 5: Shaping Focus
Druid 6:
Druid 7: Dimensional Agility
Horizon Walker 1:
Horizon Walker 2: Dimensional Assault
Horizon Walker 3:
Druid 8: Dimensional Dervish
Druid 9:
Druid 10: Dimensional Savant

Druid 10 is the minimum you'll need to achieve the top forms with your Shaping Focus feat, since Wolf Shaman reduces your effective level by 2 for some forms. So, after what is listed, it's up to you whether you want to stay in Druid, or do something else (though I would recommend increasing your spellcasting).

The Human is really necessary to get the Augment Summoning in this case, but if you don't care about Augment Summoning, you can pick whichever race suits your fancy.

The Envoy of Balance is worth taking a look at, at least, since you'll meet the prerequisites, and the 3rd level ability will let your natural attacks bypass alignment-based DR, which will be crucial if you're relying on Greater Magic Fang. If you have some other way of overcoming that, then don't bother, as it has poor BAB progression.

EDIT: Remember that the Horizon Walker's thing is a spell-like ability, so it has no components, meaning you can use it in any wild shape form without problem. If you want to be able to cast other spells in non-elemental wild shape, though, you may need to consider dropping the Spell Focus/Augment Summoning, and getting that instead. It's a tough call, and not at all an obvious choice.

Silver Crusade

Wolf Shaman gets a bonus feat at level 9; its a short list to choose from.


Yeah. Stupidly, I think the only one you'll be able to take is Skill Focus (Stealth). So... congratulations, you just got Stealthy. Something to use those skill ranks for.

Silver Crusade

Right...
And also, how is our Nightwolfer here going to cast spells wildshaped? He needs Wild Speech. Do all 10 levels of Druid first, then the 3 levels of HW and lose Shaping Focus? All I could think of...


The other PrC that comes to mind, for after Druid 10, is Exalted. Irori, Gozreh, Pharsma, Shelyn are all strong contenders. I like Irori, as the Deific Obedience gives a great boon, and you can choose the Knowledge Domain as your extra domain, giving you 'true seeing' as a SLA, among other things. They are all fine choices, though, depending on what you want to do.


Brad McDowell wrote:

Right...

And also, how is our Nightwolfer here going to cast spells wildshaped? He needs Wild Speech. Do all 10 levels of Druid first, then the 3 levels of HW and lose Shaping Focus? All I could think of...

Well, first, you can still do your Dimension Door while Wildshaped, since it's a SLA.

If you want to cast other spells in Wild Shape form, I wouldn't recommend dropping Shaping Focus. Though painful, it may be better to drop Spell Focus/Augment Summoning. Grab Natural Spell, and one other of choice.

There is another option, which I don't recommend, but I'll point it out. If, after level 7, you first take a level of Fighter (Unbreakable) you can grab Endurance and Diehard as free feats. This frees up the Endurance feat slot for Natural Spell. Your Wild Shape will be the same as in the other build, but your casting will be one level further delayed. Up to you.


Dang; just realized that you can't take Natural Spell or Shaping Focus before level 5, because you won't have the Wild Shape class feature yet.

In that case, I would personally just do without Natural Spell. As said, you can still use your dimension door thing, and once you have elemental forms you'll be able to talk in those, and use components with a Polymorphic Pouch). Up to you. I personally think the wild shape progression staying full is more important than Natural Spell, though.

Silver Crusade

I do agree. But if this were played starting at level 1, I could also see the merits of leveling druid to 10 right away. This way, you play it out as a "regular" wolf shaman, and then BAM, 3 levels of HW and you're a Dimensional Savant. Could go either way, I guess.


Druid 8 > Horizon Walker 3 is the most I would personally take Druid before Horizon Walker, because then you get the dimension door SLA at the same time as Dimensional Dervish, which is the feat at which it starts becoming incredibly useful.

Your character, though :)


If your GM allows custom items, a Ioun Stone granting the Natural Spell feat should run 10,000gp. 5,000 to craft.


Actually, thinking about it, Druid 8 > Horizon Walker 3 is probably much better than Druid 7 > Horizon Walker 3, because it gets you the Dimensional Hop ability of the travel domain at 8th level.

Silver Crusade

Ok, new route here, more melee based...
Druid 7 (Wolf Shaman) (Travel)
HW 3, for more Dim Door uses
Monk rest, for Prototype00's shenanigans

At level 6, Wild Shape gets us a Huge canine. This is as big as it's gonna get. At level 7, 4th level spells are available.


The Solar Mystery from the Harrow handbook can start the path at 5th level, with the Sun Stride revelation. It's too bad that the rest of the mystery doesn't have much melee support.

Silver Crusade

I didn't read the whole tread so it may have been mentioned, but my favorite way is to be a cleric with the theologian archetype, and the travel domain. This gives dimension door as a preparable spell at level 7 with a BAB of 5. After that one can either gain more cleric levels to increase the number of D.Door casts/day, or switch to a full BAB class for hit bonuses. I use the tengu race to get 3 primary natural attacks (claw/claw/bite), which helps with not having a full BAB. Hope this is what you're looking for and apologies if anyone else already mentioned this.

EDIT: It was mentioned, though the race suggestion still stands.


revaar wrote:
The Solar Mystery from the Harrow handbook can start the path at 5th level, with the Sun Stride revelation. It's too bad that the rest of the mystery doesn't have much melee support.

luminous form seems to work nicely for melee, serpent in the sun helps make you resistant (and later immune) to a lot of things that affect you in combat (there are lots of creatures that inflict diseases or poisons on-hit)--definitely not to priority, but useful to pick up later, starlight agility is three free feats that greatly aid getting around in combat, but beyond those and the aforementioned sunlight stride, yeah, there isn't much else going for it.

also you could play this guy:
“Oh, hello there. I will stay behind, to gaze at the sun. The sun is a wondrous body. Like a magnificent father! If only I could be so grossly incandescent!”

The Exchange

I can't do two swifts in a turn. No more vanish at the end of my Wesker Dervish. This makes me a sad panda.

1 to 50 of 58 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Dimensional Savant build All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.