| Lord Yod |
Draeke Raefel wrote:Mirror, Mirror wrote:which doesn't allow you to gain the normal claw/claw/bite attack routine of some of the quadrupedal forms. the forelegs need to allow the claws evolution.Abraham spalding wrote:The evolution you are looking for is "Rake".Ravingdork wrote:You can apply claws to any limb the eidolon possesses.
Except it specifically states you can only apply claws to the arms... same with slam attacks and pincers.
"Claws (Ex): An eidolon has a pair of vicious claws at the
end of its limbs, giving it two claw attacks. These attacks
are primary attacks. The claws deal 1d4 points of damage
(1d6 if Large, 1d8 if Huge). The eidolon must have the limbs
(arms) evolution to take this evolution. This evolution can
be selected more than once, but the eidolon must possess
an equal number of the limbs evolution."I don't understand what you are getting at. A Lion has 4 claws, but only has a claw/claw/bite routine, and if he gets his grapple he can rake.
How would that be any different from the Eidolon (clawed forearms with a bite, and then rake for the hind legs)?
*Edit* Ah, I reread it and see now.. the Quadruped states it has "legs" on the forelegs, which don't qualify for claws.
Yeah, that might need a bit of a revision in the Claws entry.Maybe we are missing a "Talons" entry, that are feet specific? That would cover the bird-like Eidolons... and some dinosaurs if I recall correctly.
The issue now seems to be that quadrupedal eidolons are extremely underpowered at low levels, especially when you compare them to bipedal eidolons (or a druid's animal companion). Compare:
1st-level quad eidolon
1 HD, +1 BAB, good Fort/Ref, 4 skills, 1 feat, bite attack. Basic attack stat is +3 bite, 1d6+3 damage. Give it arms and claws with your 3 points and you have two +3 claws, 1d4+2 damage. Its AC is 14 and it has around 18 hp.
1st-level biped eidolon
Most of the stats are the same. Loses 1 point of AC but gains +2 Strength. Starts with 2 claws so give it a bite and +2 more strength and you have: +5 bite (1d6+4), 2 +5 claws (1d4+4). This is substantially better.
Looking at the two of them I fail to see anything truly attractive for the quad. They can take Pounce, which is awesome, but the bipeds don't have to spend as many points to get the same number of attacks, and have a higher strength to boot.
Compare that to animal companions:
Bear: +4 bite (1d4+2), 2 +4 claws (1d3+2)
Big cat: +2 bite (1d6+1), 2 +2 claws (1d4+1), +2 rake (1d4+1)
Both of these also have scent.
Maybe it's just me, but quads seem to have been nerfed a bit too hard with this last change.