Lord Norin's page

I also agree with the OP's sentiment... Not only does the game not feel like Pathfinder 1E (Epic Magic, the Joy of theory crafting) but it is not fun to play... My group voted to end our playtest after episode 3 - Nobody was having any fun and voted to play 5E.

Jason there are some things I do like about 2E.. the three action economy, critical on +/- 10 and the variable success states for saves vs. various effects. But these few things do not make up more the lackluster feats, skills and spells... Everything has been dialed back... That is not Pathfinder, at least not my pathfinder... I want Powerful Magic, I want fighters who are more than there weapons magical pluses, the proficiency system is klunky and insulting, I liked that in PF1 the rules were the same for PC's and NPCs it made building them more science and less art, thus giving me more time to work on story and theme....

I respect that you want to dial down the crazy numbers but by making everyones skills progress at more or less the same rate all you have done is homogenize the characters so that their choices and agency are less impactful. Which is not Pathfinder at all.

Pathfinder is all about choices, it is the legos of RPG's, when you reduce peoples choices and limit what there characters can be... especially compared to PF1's Core Rules well, I think you can see why the citizens are going for the torches....

I for one want PF2 to be awesome, as a Paizo Fan, I have purchased every pathinder and Starfinder book and most of the map packs and what not.. At this point if this was the final product I can't say I see that pattern continuing...

With the exception of today's podcast I have watched each Q and A session and in general not been impressed with the transparency with which you guys answer questions about what is working and what you guys are considering tweaking, and in no instance have I heard mention of the absolutely atrocious nerf job to spells been mentioned, yes some spells needed serious revisions.. but others like Unseen Servant and Mage Hand... these needed no changes and you nerfed than anyway...

I don't believe that the current design team has it's pulse on what the current pathfinder fans want.. Nor am I certain you have a feel for what the rest of the market wants... I can tell you this however, the game. in it's current state is not fun...

As a game designer myself, I can understand how easy it is to become blind to flaws, which is why you conduct outside playtests... which I have done, for games that have failed on Kickstarter (see Fields Tactics and TableFlip for the curious) and know that you learn more from failures than from success, so understand that when I tell you when a lot of people are telling your game is not fun... You listen! find out why they feel that way.. check that against other data and find out if it is a bias or a legitimate feeling...

Sorry for the length of this post, I really wanted to get this off my chest. I love Pathfinder, I really think the AP's are amazing, and well written and fun to play, but this is just not up to that legacy... The adventure is lackluster, it feels more like a D&D encounters scenario than a Paizo episode... And the rules just plain are not working for me and a significant amount of the current fans.

I will continue to lurk and post here and there but otherwise unless their is a significant rules revison, I can't see my group returning to the playtests or picking up PF2.

I am also intrigued give me a few examples of this in "action" please.

Still waiting for my concerns about Wizards and their spells to be addressed Mage Armor is still garbage and no word that they are even looking at how bad the action economy for cantrips is... I gotta say that while it is somewhat heartening to hear them talk about changes, this is stuff that should have been in the rules from the start and makes me question the quality of their internal playtesters...

I think that as the game plays right now it is not a fun rules set... My group is not really wanting to continue with the playtest due to the jankiness of the rules and not having any investiture in their characters... as well as the whole stick and no carrot design approach to things like Resonance.

MrAptronym wrote:

2. I think they have a different picture of what healing should be like than I do.

My biggest head/desk moment was when Jason said something like "I think there may be a healing problem but we need more data to be sure". The one thing that is screamingly obvious if you listen to just about ANY feedback is that YES, THERE IS A HEALING problem. The fact that Jason doesn't recognize this is more than a little alarming.

The fact that they are ignoring the complaints about vancian casting still being in the game as well as resonance and other things shows that they really are not informed about what their base wants in a new edition....

Dracomicron wrote:

You have a point. Better to not let clerics heal Stamina at all. Worst case: the Stamina comes back with a rest. Best case: the Bard tops them off.

So you've nerfed healers by cutting in half what they can heal, and created a situation where fully healing someone in combat requires TWO healing classes instead of one.

I'm really not seeing how this is better than not adding the extra complexity in the first place.

Stamina in Starfinder is able to restored by the individual PC's so for the most you don't need to have it healed... It reduces the need for "Pure" healers in the starfinder setting.

Some classes such as the envoy can restore some stamina immediately like during a fight but in general that is usually not necessary. My Starfinder Group has been running for months without a mystic in their party but they do have an NPC ally aboard their ship (The Ion Wraith) as part of their crew.

I believe that after playing Starfinder , that Stamina is a more elegant and simple fix than hitdice, or short rests... As long as the resource that allows them to do so is limited and ideally can be spent on other things such as enhancing class powers and abilities I think the idea is a winner. The fact that the devs are so opposed to exploring this idea shows how out of touch they are with the demographic... Between this, the absolute neutering of magic, and the resonance claptrap, I am not sure that PF2 is worth developing...