Gambler

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Ok, several months later and they still haven't even cracked the rock yet. They don't have enough infamy and Lady Agasta won't ally with them. She did, however, ask them to check on a crew she sent to a nearby island to get supplies. That crew is a couple days overdue and she wants to know why. The PC's reluctantly agreed, but are discussing among themselves about taking the island by force.

I really thought I would at least be starting the fourth book by now, not nearing the end of the second. It doesn't look like I'll finish this AP anytime soon. One player made a comment that there doesn't seem to be an ongoing plot or story and they are just meandering around. Another player is starting to get restless and bored with the game- but I believe this is my fault. I am a casual layed back GM that enjoys hanging out as much as playing and or running the game, where as he want to be gaming the whole time. Two other players (the Captain and Master-at-Arms) moved away but are still attempting to play via Skype or whatever streaming service (usually bowing out after @1-3 hrs due to technical issues). Plus others are wanting to run their games, so I think I'm gonna pause the game after they finish book two and hopefully pick it back up at a later time. I'm thinking I've got about three to four more sessions before I end it, though.


OK, well, I ran my first session last night. Went a little slow. Mainly because I was not as prepared as I thought I was- I really need to print some of the NPC's out instead of using the PDFs on my computer or tablet. And the job charts. All in all I had fun and they seemed to have fun.

We only got through the first two days of the AP. Highlights are-

The catfolk rogue successfully spreading the rumor that it's unlucky to hurt a catfolk.

The suli brawler knocking out the half-orc in one punch.

The gnome barbarian is undefeated in Hob Lob.

The gillman slayer, while trying to dispose of the body of the previous cooks mate (who died the previous night from drinking a large mug of urine- he got caught relieving himself in the lauder, and as punishment had to drink a mug of the other crews urine), found he could not carry the body and climb the ladder (can't go through the officers quarters after all), he got a large pot and cleaver from the kitchen and hacked the body into pieces... in full view of the everyone... and calmly threw the parts overboard.

The mesmerist casting hideous laughter on the dwarf NPC (who was hostile the PCs) while he was being whipped for being late reporting to work.

Yeah, I thought about posting a full rundown of the game on another thread, if anyone was interested, but I'd want to get the players OK first.

Anyway, a few issues came up, like what kind if weapon stats would a large meat cleaver have? The new cooks mate- the gillman- wants one as a weapon. I just ruled it as a hand axe for now, but I'm trying to find actual stats, if there is any.

As for the punishments, twelve lashings from the whip seems a little excessive. Especially to lvl one PCs. The brawler only took four before he passed out. And, if we read the rules right, if he was continually whipped while unconscious, the nonlethal damage would wrap around to deal lethal damage. That surely would have killed him.

In response to DeathQuaker- I got home and read up about the CRs in the core book. For the battle at the start of day 2, I added two hostile NPCs to the four that stops the players to make it 6v6 (the seventh "undecided" player could not make it). When I checked the book, if I'm doing it right, the players are CR2,and I threw a CR4 encounter at them. The PC's walked out without a scratch, and the all but two of the PNCs were out of commission (the other two ran away with 1hp left).
I do see what you're saying though. I'll need to read up on that more before the next game.

As for them starting the mutiny early... Well I'm not so worried about them doing it early, but rather them doing it too early. As in before The Man's Promise comes into the picture. They seem to be making friends of some NPCs, but as it sits, they have more enemies than friends. Those that dislike them hate them, but those that don't are just kinda "meh...".


Tinalles wrote:
Second, be advised that running an adventure path takes a while. Expect this to be a multiple-year commitment. Probably at least two years. Three is not uncommon. And I've been GM'ing Runelords since, you know, 2012 I think? Don't worry, we'll probably finish sometime in 2019.

!!! I wasn't expecting it to take that long to finish it! We meet weekly and typically play for @6-8 hrs. I was thinking six months, tops.

Tinalles wrote:
1) If you are playing with maps, draw them out in advance. It saves a ton of time.

I was going to use maps, yes, but I was going to try and use the pre-made maps- such as the flip maps and even a couple from the comics. Using maps is somewhat new to my group, so I may only use them for major battles. In a the previous Pathfinder game I was in, the GM had one of those dry-erase mats and drew out the dungeon as we progressed thought it. I may do the same.

Tinalles wrote:

2) The problem with boss fights, especially against solo bosses, is the imbalanced action economy. For every 1 turn the boss gets, he'll have to sit there and take seven spells or attacks from your seven PCs. This is the key problem with solo bosses even with just four PCs; with a larger group, it's much worse.

Just scaling up his hit points doesn't help much; it prolongs the fight without seriously increasing the threat to the PCs. If you give him sufficient levels to have abilities that are a serious threat to that many PCs, it's easy to start running into balance issues. That is, if he's a serious threat to ALL of them, he could wipe the board with any ONE of them easily.

Yeah, I thought about this. With the crowd I've got they potentially take out a boss in one round. I'm even kinda worried that if they went after the captain they could take him out with a some good rolls.

Tinalles wrote:

Here are several things you can do to address the imbalanced action economy for boss fights.

Give the boss minions. More baddies = more baddie actions. Having multiple opponents will divide your PCs attention. The downside is that the fight will last longer and be more complex to run. And, of course, sometimes there are it doesn't make sense for a particular boss to have minions -- plot reasons, or not enough space on the map, or maybe your boss just doesn't play well with others.

Speaking of minions, one of the few things I liked about 4e was the concept of, well, minions. In 4e, a minion was a creature that had the exact same stats as an ordinary creature of its kind, except that it had only one hit point. They can be dangerous, because they attack just as easily as usual, but they die instantly if they get hit by literally anything. You can flood the map with minions, which will first scare the PCs ("Oh god, there are so many of them!") and then let them feel like badasses. ("I just punched out a skeleton with one hit!", says the wizard with 8 strength.)

You know, I actually like this one quite a bit. Only problem I can see is a couple players/GMs in my group know the system better than I do, and could notice that the creatures should have more hit point that what it took to kill it.

If I did this option, how would I go about awarding exp. for theses weaker minions? Getting their full exp. for a one-hit-kill doesn't sit right with me for some reason...

Tinalles wrote:
Limit player actions. This one is tricky. It does address the imbalance issue, BUT people hate being put in situations where they can't do anything. You run the risk of trampling on player agency. So you can do this, but be careful with it, and maybe don't trot it out too often.

This is not even a option, sorry. The group I game with does not like these kind of hindrances, and will likely just start an argument.

Tinalles wrote:

Give the boss more actions. Just let him do more than the PCs can, straight up. If you take this route, inform your players in advance that you intend to do so for key boss fights, because the party is very large and otherwise they'll just steamroll encounters designed to be dramatic conclusions. Nothing says "boss fight" quite like the moment the players realize that the bad guy gets extra actions.

The Agile mythic template basically lets your boss get two turns per round, for example, and ensures that the boss almost always goes first.

I like this and will likely use this option for the bigger bosses. Especially the final boss battle, and I was even going to add one (possibly two) golems that was they would have previously fought...

Add in the minions option, and this could be an epic battle, as it should be.

Tinalles wrote:
Alternatively, you could borrow the concept of "Legendary Actions" from 5e.

I'll consider this, although I'm not sure how the players will react to using rules from outside the Pathfinder system.

Yeah, this will be an experience. I know I'll have at least four players every game, with the other three there most of the time, but I doubt all of the time.

Also, the previous merfolk hunter is now a gillman slayer.

Again, thanks for all the help and advise. You all have been a great help.


Wow. I was only expecting two or three replies, not this. Thank you all!

Ron Lundeen wrote:
My general solution is to use story leveling, and just keep the PCs a level or two behind where the adventures "expect" them to be.

The issue with this is I suggested awarding exp. at the end of the session instead of at the end of the battle like they usually do, and got all kinds of... negative feedback.

ryric wrote:
For seven players you can fairly safely double the amount of minions/non-boss enemies in a fight. I'd at least add the Advanced simple template (effectively +2 to everything) to each "boss" encounter, and you may really want to give the boss some minions as well just for pure action economy reasons.

I have dealt with six or seven players before, but it was years ago when I ran my last game. Even then it was only for a couple sessions. I was planning on advancing the "bosses", but I can't remember where I read up on it.

Rylar wrote:

The biggest problem I see is that 7 players really throw off the balance of crew to party ratio. I would lessen the number of crew members and give them fewer options for persuading others to join them (this seems to be the main point of the first book). Maybe let them influence others every other day or limit them to 3-4 total PCs influence attempts per day. They could also work together on ship actions.

Also, I’d make two riggers and maybe a specialty job for another player.

I would remove probably remove Sandara from the campaign and give her role to one of the players (she is the friendly npc that helps the group). Her role is important at the start of the campaign.

Yeah I didn't even think about this until you brought it up. I don't want to get rid of Sandara as she is likely going to be the only healer. I'll probably put the other npc's (Crimson and Rosie) to the background and drop a few of the "other crew".

The merfolk hunter won't be an issue anymore. He changed to a gillman hunter. Didn't like the slow base speed.

The players starting the mutiny too early was my first worry. Gonna try to talk them out of it with npc's until it's time, but I doubt it will work...

Anyway, thanks for all the help and advice. It's given me some stuff to contemplate and mull over.


First of all, if you are one of the players in my game, please don't read this, as it may (will) contain spoilers and the like. Now then...

I have ran a few games of other game systems in the past, and have played several Pathfinder games before. I casually mentioned I was thinking of doing a pirate style game (as I had just acquired the first Skull and Shackles AP), and was basically told "Do it!". So I'm going to run the whole Skull and Shackles Adv. Path.

Here's a run-down of the player character concepts-
Gnome Barbarian (Titan Mauler)
Suli Brawler
Human Sorcerer (Sea Hag Bloodline)
Human Mesmerist
Catfolk Rogue
Merfolk Hunter
Undecided character

... Yes, seven players. I have some questions.
1- What is the current year in the setting? Not for the S&S path, but currently as of the most recent AP? This may seem like a weird question, but I figured with all the Adventure Paths that have came out, I doubt they all happened at the same time. I only ask because I was thinking of setting my game in the past of another GMs campaign.

2-How would I go about adjusting for so many players? The AP is based around four players, and I have almost double that. Gut reaction is to just double the enemies encountered, but what about with the named villain encounters, i.e. the final confrontation? I thought about having reinforcements there, but not sure on how many.

3- Any foreseeable issues with these characters? The Titan Mauler Gnome is going to be fun (played by a new-ish player), and I like the idea of the Suli Brawler. The undecided player just said he wants to be the ships muscle. The Merfolk may take some work story-wise. I just can't see the crew pressganging a merfolk into service. My idea was he got caught in the fishing net during the players first day on the ship, and the captain plans to sell him at the nearest port- idea being merfolk are rare and possibly worth a lot.

Thanks in advance for any help and/or advice you could give. I'm starting to feel a little out of my element, so your help will be greatly appreciated.