Llyra Sundancer's page

While I'm asking about spells - if you could get ONE damage spell at 3rd level for PFS, what would it be? Lightning Bolt? Fireball? Assume no meta-magic feats would be applied... the build has some trip-heavy elements so would Ice Spears be a good option?

Just off the top of my head, I can see one use that could be really handy.

"Anyone thinking around here? What are they thinking about? You say they are thinking about ambushing us from invisibility? Um, guys ..."

That's interesting, especially with the ability to turn invisible myself. Never thought about using it as a scouting technique against hidden or invisible foes...

Morning all.

I'm putting together my newest PFS character and my first full caster (Human Wildblooded Sylvan Sorcerer), and I'm trying to plan out my spell lists ahead of time. The character is going to be more of a utility type, focusing on control and buffing spells for the most part, but I wanted to make sure I checked the 'useful' box as well. Looking at 2nd level spells, after Aggressive Thundercloud, Communal Protection vs. Evil and the requisite Hideous Laughter, I was considering Detect Thoughts as an option. For players, do you think this would be useful, would it come up very often? I like spells like Charm Person and Detect Thoughts for out-of-combat utility but I'm not sure how much benefit I'd get from it in PFS... would something like Eagle's Splendor as a pre-combat buff serve better?

For GM's, how would you adjudicate the use of this spell? Assuming the target failed its save and was being questioned verbally on a topic, how much information would you be willing to offer up? In some scenarios I could see this as potentially game-breaking.

I know these are pretty general questions but I've never used the spell before, so any input would be appreciated.

I think its from Blood of the Mood but I can't find verification anywhere...

I'd like to use it. I also think I should be able to use it even though the character in question has absolutely no connection to skin walkers of any type. My interest is in the thematical appeal of the mechanics, not the other way around.

Having said that, the general consensus in these brief answers - and thank you for those - is enough to convince me to go another route. I appreciate the responses.

Its odd - this is the text as it reads...

Special: This feat is available to weretigers, weretiger-kin and those who associate with these creatures.

Just what constitutes 'those who associate with these creatures'?

The link is broken I think...

I think its from Blood of the Mood but I can't find verification anywhere...

Llyra Sundancer wrote:

Faelyn wrote:

I do not see why not. As you said, there is nowhere the rules that specify that; however, yes thematically I always envisioned it to be a dance. Granted there are plenty if people who can sing and dance at the same time. Therefore you could say that your PC is also singing while under the effects of Battle Dance. The way I play my DD's Battle Dance is almost trancelike.

I believe the main area where you will run into table variance is due to Battle Dance only affecting you, as opposed to everyone in the party. I can see some GMs saying Discordant Voice would only affect you, because you are the only one being affected by Battle Dance. Just something to consider. You might ask around to the different GMs that you play with as you level your PC to get a general consensus of whether a majority would or would not allow it, then make your decision off that outcome.

If not, any thoughts for a good replacement for that 11th level slot?

You might look at Improved Critical. With the scimitar you threaten on a roll of 15 or higher, and that's nothing to sneeze at! Especially when you start stacking on the damage bonuses from Battle Dance, Power Attack, Arcane Strike... etc. The thing to remember with DD is that you'll only have two attacks at 12th level while the martials will be getting three. You really want to try and maximize the damage you get with your attack.

Yeah, I'm hoping to make up for that with a very high attack bonus and as many static damage bonuses as possible. Plus stuff like Allegro and Dance of a Hundred Cuts helps a lot.

I expect to acquire a keen scimitar long before reaching 11th level. Any other suggestions? Maybe with the feats at 9th and 11th I should consider Dazzling Display and Violent Display if its legal...

I do not see why not. As you said, there is nowhere the rules that specify that; however, yes thematically I always envisioned it to be a dance. Granted there are plenty if people who can sing and dance at the same time. Therefore you could say that your PC is also singing while under the effects of Battle Dance. The way I play my DD's Battle Dance is almost trancelike.

I believe the main area where you will run into table variance is due to Battle Dance only affecting you, as opposed to everyone in the party. I can see some GMs saying Discordant Voice would only affect you, because you are the only one being affected by Battle Dance. Just something to consider. You might ask around to the different GMs that you play with as you level your PC to get a general consensus of whether a majority would or would not allow it, then make your decision off that outcome.

If not, any thoughts for a good replacement for that 11th level slot?

I suppose my concern about Battle Dance + Discordant Voice is the thematic conflict. Although its called a 'Battle Dance', nowhere in the description is it called out that the Bardic Performance has to be Dance, nor does it suggest that for the abilities function you must use a performance based off of visual rather than auditory effects... which is good, because Discordant Voice specifically requires Oratory or Singing.

So I guess the question becomes, could the Bardic Performance used to initiate a Battle Dance be Oratory or Singing, RAW?

Llyra Sundancer wrote:

Quote:

So recommendations for you, would be to start your Dex at 15 instead of 16. That would give you an extra 3 points that you could use elsewhere. Pop that into Cha, now you've got a 16! Granted you won't get an 18 in your Dex until 4th, but that can really help with being useful outside of combat. I've got a DD in a WoTR game with only a 16 Dex and when I start stacking on the bonuses with flanking and Battle Dance, you don't even miss that extra +1. Just some food for thought!

I'll definitely consider that. With Versatile Performance impacting so many skills that CHA bonus will certainly be felt.

Will Discordant Voice work with Battle Dance? With such a high Acrobatics score is Lunge a worthwhile consideration?

Exactly. Versatile Performance will allow you take advantage of your lower intelligence. You can use your VP to effect so many different skills that you can concentrate on only a few as opposed to several.

I don't see why Discordant Voice would not work with Battle Dance as it specifically states it is treated as Bardic Performance for feats that affect BP. I would say to expect table variance on that one... Might do a little asking around the forums about that one. Lunge isn't bad, but to be honest I'd probably take Improved Initiative. Until Battle Dance is a Swift Action to activate you'll basically have to waste the first round "buffing" yourself for battle. To be honest though, I've found charging in to make your first attack, then use the 2nd round to activate Battle Dance typically works a little better.

With Allegro, Cat's Grace, Good Hope, Dance of a Hundred Cuts or whatever, I figure there's always going to be an initial round where I'm 'activating' things... swift for Battle Cry, move for Battle Dance, standard for Spell, etc. I'm also not the tankish sort - better off not being the first one in to absorb the alpha. Figure a high Initiative will get me in the game that much sooner and won't make it seem like I'm 'wasting' a round.

One of the things I'm excited about is that the character will really let me maximize all of my actions - swift actions for Arcane Strike, Battle Cry and eventually Battle Dance, move actions for Battle Dance and Meditative Whirl and so forth.

So recommendations for you, would be to start your Dex at 15 instead of 16. That would give you an extra 3 points that you could use elsewhere. Pop that into Cha, now you've got a 16! Granted you won't get an 18 in your Dex until 4th, but that can really help with being useful outside of combat. I've got a DD in a WoTR game with only a 16 Dex and when I start stacking on the bonuses with flanking and Battle Dance, you don't even miss that extra +1. Just some food for thought!

I'll definitely consider that. With Versatile Performance impacting so many skills that CHA bonus will certainly be felt.

Will Discordant Voice work with Battle Dance? With such a high Acrobatics score is Lunge a worthwhile consideration?

I would get the Aasimar FCB started on Inspire Courage right from level 1. I would also try to slot in Battle Cry at level 5--it's like a contingent Saving Finale for the entire party ChaMod times/day.

I was looking at Battle Cry for that 9th level feat. My Charisma mod isn't that high but for PFS I'm sure I'd still get plenty of use out of it.

If I start the FCB bonus at 1st or at 3rd, I can't get the final iteration until 12th level regardless. In fact, none of them come any sooner if you can believe that. So I figured take a couple of extra skills that'll benefit from being a class skill.

Maybe something like this:

1st - Dervish Dance
1st - Arcane Strike
3rd - Weapon Focus: Scimitar
5th - Battle Cry
7th - Power Attack
9th - Improved Initiative or Lunge
11th - Discordant Voice (if it functions with Battle Dance)

Evening, all. :)

I'm getting back into PFS this weekend and I've decided to devote my limited time to a single character. I've settled on an Aasimar Dawnflower Dervish that I began a while back - I like the character because it lets me do a lot of things... she's got quite the list of skills, social and otherwise, she's a very effective melee combatant, a competent ranged threat and has access to a host of useful spells both in combat and out. I'm not trying to break the game or anything, but I do look for her to be kind of the 'second best everything' on the team and to be able to step into pretty much any role in a pinch.

Below is the build I'm planning right now, but I'd be interested in any thoughts anyone might have, or a warning if I'm planning anything that might have become illegal - its so hard keeping track of ALL the ever-changing restrictions...

Aasimar (Musetouched) Dawnflower Dervish
extra skill rank for 1st and 2nd, +1/2 effective level in Inspire Courage thereafter

Attributes:
STR - 13 (+1 @ 12th)
DEX - 16 (+2 racial bonus, +1 @ 4th & 8th)
CON - 14
INT - 10
WIS - 10
CHA - 12 (+2 racial bonus)

Traits:
Unscathed
Reactionary

Feats:
1st - Dervish Dance
1st - Arcane Strike
3rd - Weapon Focus: Scimitar
5th - Power Attack
7th - Improved Initiative
9th - Lunge
11th - Discordant Voice

Skills:
Climb (rank at 1)
Escape Artist (rank at 2)
Perception (ranks at 1-12)
Performance: Comedy (ranks at 1-12, sub for Bluff & Intimidate @ 6th)
Performance: Dance (ranks at 1-12, sub for Acrobatics & Fly at 10th)
Performance: Oration (ranks at 1-12, sub for Diplomacy & Sense Motive @ 2nd)
Stealth (ranks at 1-12)

Gear I'm going to be working towards initially will be a Keen Scimitar and a Mithril Chain Shirt to start (with attendant enhancement bonuses, of course).

Does Discordant Voice work with a Battle Dance? What about spells like Saving Finale or Virtuoso Performance?

Would there be any value in a two-level dip somewhere along the way, like say in MoMS for Crane Style or Snake Style?

Any advice or comments would be welcome.

@sarokat

Having seen first hand a PFS bard (level 11), he was able to get all his social and knowledge skills in the 60+ range. Granted, he had items and feats to beef up his performance, but it made the point. I kinda feel bad for that player a little bit now since his bard is so close to retirement and he'll have to do some rebuilding on it.

Personally, I never used it as my bard just hit level 6 yesterday. It's a build I wasn't planning on using that for, but I'll miss having it as an option anyway. I really didn't think of it as being so OP that it could solo anything, just a fun little quirk.

To be honest, I'm a little relieved. I've started leveling a Bard up and I was dreading the moment I could take this masterpiece. I felt like on the one hand, any table I sat down at with a 6th level Bard or higher who didn't have this ability would be questioned or even ridiculed by fellow players and, ultimately, I'd have left off an option as a support player that would have been of immense use to my team. On the other hand, posts like the OP left me dreading debates and arguments with rules-conflicted GM's or spiteful players who were more concerned with their own moments to shine than the success of the group.

Now at least, I won't have to make that choice.