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Rynjin wrote:
So where in the description of Form of the Dragon does it say it's a valid target for Permanency? I can't find it anywhere.

That's what I'm trying to find! I don't know where he's coming up with this. I think he's pulling from old 3.5 rules. He's been playing much longer than I.

I've been telling him for the past few days that I don't think it works but he constantly argues against me. He won't agree with me (the GM) so maybe the internet will make him believe.


Hey guys. I got a power gamer that's been talking about a spell combo that just seems confusing to me.

My player is a transmutation wizard and is considering using Form of the Dragon to become a dragon, then cast Permanency. Afterward he uses the dragons Alter Self ability to change back into human.

My question comes from the fact that both these spells are polymorph spells. Core rule book says that the next polymorph spell overwrites the next, to paraphrase.

His goal is to be a medium sized creature with base stats of an adult dragon. He says that it works because the Alter self spell would overpower the previous one. Since alter self doesn't change base stats, would he keep the Dragon stats?


Some of our characters recently died (8 Shock Lizards in a surprise round) so we needed to build new 5th lvl characters. This is how I opened his introduction.

A rather large man walked in the inn wearing a Wizard's hat, robes that were two sizes too small and carrying a Spellbook and Quarterstaff.

Assuming I'm a wizard build, the party decides to run me through trials (along with the other character to join, a rogue) to see if he can make it in the party. I only had to pass one test. First came the test of strength. we were told to lift, then throw a log. Whoever gets farthest wins.

I stepped up when it was my turn and told the party "With my 19 Strength I easily pick up the log and toss." The party is flabbergasted, a wizard with 19 strength?

Next was the test of Magic. My character is to hit a can with a magic missile. He reached into a bag and muttered some words and a bright tiny sized object flew out of his hand. It missed of course. Magic missile can't hit Inanimate Objects, as I informed the party.

Next test was combat. I was to fight the Ranger in the party and if I could defeat him with a nonlethal Weapon I won. The ranger got the first hit in. I then told him "I grip the longsword in two hands, Activate Rage, then Power Attack." After the first hit, ranger gave up.

At this point everyone is really confused. I then explained my Characters Backstory.

He was from a barbarian clan that believed you gained the power of the enemies that you defeated in battle. He beat many barbarians in battle, making him an amazing barbarian. One day, He killed a wizard and took his name.

Now, Mervin Stormcrow the Wizard (actually a 5th lvl Barbarian) Has joined the party. Oh, the Magic Missile? Mervin carries a bag of rocks.

TLDR: Barbarian character Pretending to be a Wizard and the Party can't prove that he's not.


I'm building a Summoner and as part of her background her Eidolon is Undead(using the Undead Appearance evolution in Ultimate Magic)

Part of the Evolution states that "Negative energy heals the the eidolon, and positive energy(including a cleric's channel energy ability) harms it.

I'm looking at ways to heal an eidolon and I see that first level I can pick up Rejuvenate Eidolon, Lesser. It's school is conjuration (healing).

Would this hurt the Eidolon?