Korimyr the Rat's page

The spells and the Hide in Plain sight were the only features of the Assassin PrC that were worth a damn-- and the only thing that gave it a reason to exist as its own separate class.

Poison Use should be a Rogue Talent and Hide in Plain Sight should be an Advanced Rogue Talent.

The only needed change is to allow it to use a ki point instead of stunning fist uses.

I'd say allow it to use the Monk's unarmed damage value, so that it's less powerful at lower levels. More likely to hit and Wisdom rather than Strength means it'll do more damage for most high-level Monks... but that's balanced by having to stand still while you do it.

My thought has been that base classes typically need improved because base 20 is supposed to be a viable option compared to base 5/prc 10/prc 5. Improving prestige classes is counterproductive, and most of what I've done with Prestige Classes at all has been to fold them back into thematically similar base classes. Swashbuckler/Duelist and Shugenja/Void Disciple are no-brainers, even if the latter wasn't a good choice mechanically.

Most of the classes I've converted have ended up with improvements largely because they were lame-- and recognized as lame-- to start with, especially compared with other late cycle classes and with classes that have received Pathfinder upgrades.

I think if someone played a druid I would space out the wildshape boosts more.

Druids have much better core combat statistics than sorcerers or wizards already; they should be getting Elemental Body IV later than the wizard, not earlier.

I don't allow it at all. You can use spells to do those things. If you really, really want to tempt my wrath.

I'm working on what I think is a pretty good substitute to wild shape for Druids... but I am sadly lacking a proper 20th level capstone.

Magic Weapon doesn't work because a fist isn't a "weapon".

A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Greater Magic Weapon works just as well for a Monk as Greater Magic Fang. Better, if he's wearing gauntlets.

Personally I didn't feel this until now. Playing 3.5e I didn't find evil clerics as much weaker. Good clerics in the party would go melee to be damage dealers as their spells were to weak.

Cleric's role in the party is to heal. Evil Clerics aren't any better at healing than Bards, and Bards have better buffing options.

Then they would need to lose a round to run to ONE of the party members to cast a healing spell. Now they can stand outside and spam spells and spam healing. Healing that cannot be stopped, not even by grappling.

If they don't mind healing their enemies at the same time. Hell, I used to think it was a serious problem-- mass cure at much lower levels-- until I realized that you don't get to designate allies.

If you really think Channel Positive Energy needs nerfed, ban Selective Channeling, and make sure a couple of enemies tumble past the front ranks to harass the healbot every once in a while. See how excited he is about his special power then.

That's a pretty sensible feat to allow for Clerics of dieties like Nethys and Pharasma and perhaps Calistria, in particular, as those dieties have stronger than normal 'naughty and nice' aspects.

Certainly. And if the connection between Clerics and Deities is a little more tenuous in your campaign world, it makes sense that someone who does extensive work with that kind of energy would learn its opposite.

I've never liked the automatic association between Evil and the Undead anyway. Certainly, most undead are evil and extensive reliance upon them is probably evil... but not all undead are evil. And certainly, not every evil deity is going to want their followers associating with the dead.

Boxing is a perfectly valid martial art, and it is just as reasonable for a highly trained, disciplined boxer to be able to kill monsters with his bare hands as it is for someone who has spent the same number of years training in Kung Fu.

The only reason that professional boxers don't kill each other on a regular basis is that they wear giant padded mittens and they are restricted from hitting most sensitive areas of the body and they have referees to stop fights when someone's injured and both the winner and the loser get checked over by a doctor immediately after the fight.

I've known guys who I don't doubt could punch dents into plate armor, or punch helmets hard enough to give seasoned knights concussions. Took six of them to convince me that I was drastically underqualified for a career in the field myself.

If you compare the 3.5 Monk and Ninja... there is allot of overlap already. Once the monks got a ki pool in PF, the overlap became even more so.

Yes. I was eventually forced with great regret to abandon the Ninja class-- Monk already had most of what I planned to give Ninja, and so Ninja fell afoul of Monk/Rogue in the fashion that Paladin fell afoul of Cleric/Knight and Hexblade fell to Fighter/Warlock.

Figure most of the Ninja class abilities will end up Monk bonus feats and Rogue talents now, and different Rogue combinations will produce different "flavors" of Ninja.

Why do Bracers of armor cost the same as enhancing armor the same way but The amulet of mighty fists cost waaaaaayyyy more than enhancing a weapon?

A Monk's body counts as two weapons because of flurry of blows.

A Lizardman receives the benefit of three weapons.

Thri-Kreen gets five.

Psychic Warrior/Flayerspawn Psychic with six tentacles (courtesy of Illithid Grapple and Deepspawn) is receiving the benefit of six magical weapons. Seven if he switches to Fighter after getting all of his tentacles and picks up Improved Unarmed Strike, Supreme Unarmed Strike, and Snap Kick. Unlike the previous examples, he's also probably quite capable of making a full attack action on a charge that doesn't have to be in a straight line.

Grell Swashbuckler or a Druid wild shaped into a Giant Squid gets ten.

Let's try a very simple method: order your abilities by importance; roll 3d6 six times in that order; you can substitute your first ability with a 15, the second with a 14, the third with a 13.

That is, indeed, very elegant, though I would propose that you extend this through the rest of the elite array-- 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. I love this idea, and were it not for my loathing of randomness in chargen, I would adopt it myself.

A gauntlet is a manufactured weapon that counts as an unarmed strike. It can be enchanted, and anyone wearing an enchanted gauntlet can make attacks with it according to the same rules with which they make unarmed strikes.

Monks are proficient in unarmed strikes and can make a Flurry of Blows with them, thus they are proficient in gauntlets and can make a Flurry of Blows with them.

Gauntlets, however, are not natural weapons, and thus cannot benefit from any effect which enhances natural weapons. A Monk wearing enchanted gauntlets and an amulet of mighty fists and making an "unarmed strike" flurry of blows can make any individual attack with either his gauntlet, gaining the bonuses of the gauntlet, or with another part of his body, gaining the bonuses of the amulet.

If a Monk wanted to be particularly clever and had a ridiculous amount of money to spend, he could wear two (separately) enchanted gauntlets and an amulet of mighty fists and have his choice of three different attack forms, all while striking "unarmed".

For best value, one gauntlet would be mithril and the other cold iron.

Negative energy channeling has always been weak, and Evil Clerics have always been intentionally designed to be worse than their Good counterparts.

Right now, I'm allowing Clerics to take a feat at 5th or higher that allows them to channel either kind of energy-- so they can heal or harm the living and heal or harm the Undead. (And because of my house rules, use either Lay on Hands or Death Touch.) I'm not entirely convinced that the feat is necessary, as long as Clerics are mindful of their deities' ethos concerning channeling energy.

I hate wild shape and I'm taking it away from Druids. Now, obviously, I'm not going to do such a horrible thing without replacing it-- in this case, with a handful of selectable "nature-oriented" physical changes and abilities inspired by the Geomancer's Drift and the Aspects of Nature variant from Unearthed Arcana.

This leaves me in a little bit of a bind, as I have no idea what a proper capstone ability would look like now.

Some background:

• This is a Gestalt game with a fair bit of "niche protection" for individual classes, so that different class combinations are generally more distinct. The Druid needs to be able to combine well with any other base class.
  
• Druids lose wild shape and every variation thereof, and thousand faces, and gain immunity to disease. Otherwise, they have all other Druid class features.
  
• Since they gain a new spell level every odd class level, they gain an Aspect of Nature on every even level. Aspects are divided into three rough categories, with more powerful aspects only allowed after 6th or 12th level. (I'm considering an 18th level category.) Aspects can have prerequisites, either of other aspects or of other permanent racial or class abilities that duplicate aspect.
  
• Aspects are permanent physical changes and do not have daily usage limitations. Only one has a save DC.
  
• Druids gain an enhancement bonus of 1/4 their Druid level to all natural attacks, whether they were gained through aspects or through other means.

I'm stumped. Any advice?

Well, glad to see I'm not crazy. My players (all of them) are suggesting that I keep the traits you listed above as omitted. I'm kinda leaning towards keeping them, b/c really the class ends up very much like a druid in power that way. But I suppose we'll see how it balances out in play.

It probably isn't broken at all the way you're running it. I just dislike full casters at more than 1/2 BAB, and it's too easy to get astronomical saving throws in Gestalt-- Evasion, Mettle, Divine Grace and Arcane Resistance on top of three good saves, for instance. If I were running single class, I might be more inclined to allow them to keep it.

As for "very much like a Druid", that's exactly what I'm worried about.

Chainmail bikinis give an inherent Charisma bonus equal to the armor bonus.

Strike that, reverse it. Chainmail bikinis grant an armor bonus equal to the wearer's Charisma bonus, plus any relevant enhancement bonuses.

May very well steal this one for my own games.

Humans are supposed to be the most numerous race and the race most likely to produce adventurers. Be nice if more adventuring parties reflected that.

And I'm still bitter about all the Elves in 2e.

It's a Human only, 1st level only feat, and it's primary uses are to qualify for Chameleon or to drop on a Human Paragon or Factotum. Or, for that matter, a Human Paragon/Factotum building to Chameleon.

Why not cut to the chase? "All skills are class skills for you."

Far as I'm concerned, the more incentives for people to play Human, the better.

Bards are all well and good, but does anyone play a Bard for Jack of All Trades? If anything, they're better prepared to take advantage of Able Learner than anyone-- between their high skill points and Bardic Knowledge, they have an even better ability to spread their skill points around than the Rogue.

Lawful Evil. I'll play Lawful Neutral if the group I'm playing with has a problem with the "E" word.

You're going to need Sandstorm for environmental rules, Expanded Psionics Handbook for Thri-Kreen and Gith. (I would recommend ignoring the XPH Half-Giant in favor of Ogre.) You're on your own for Preserving/Defiling rules, but there's an issue or two of Dragon that tried to convert elements of Dark Sun to 3e.

Also, you can do very well with the standard Cleric, but I'd recommend picking up Complete Divine for the Shugenja class-- as written, it's incredibly weak for Pathfinder, but if you use the Shugenja spell list and progression with the Cleric Domains and Channel Energy, you've got a better Elemental Cleric in my opinion.

I killed the Complete Warrior Samurai and gave his stuff (well, his intimidating stuff) to the Marshal in order to upgrade the latter to fit with the generally more powerful Pathfinder classes. Gestalted with either Fighter or Knight, and allowed to purchase Ancestral Daisho as a feat, I find it more than adequate. The Knight has some superfluous abilities, but the Knight's Challenge feature is very fitting. Marshal can also be Gestalted to Shugenja for similar effect.

In a single class environment, upgrading the Marshal's BAB to full, replacing Skill Focus with EWP: Katana and Ancestral Daisho, and replacing Grant Move Action with Fighter bonus feats should accomplish the same purpose nicely.

I use the Ninja from Complete Adventurer mostly as-is, but I replace Sudden Strike with Sneak Attack (mostly to keep it from stacking with Rogue) and give them a handful of extra Ki abilities-- a speed and jump boost, a smite attack, and Thousand Faces.

For the Shugenja, I changed Sense Elements to 1/2 level + Wis mod and spread out Sense Void from Void Disciple from 5th to 20th level, with Sense Void costing 2 daily uses of Sense Elements and the extra magical senses from Sense Void applying automatically whenever the Shugenja used either ability.

I didn't see the need to adapt the Courtier, Inkyo, Sohei, or Shaman.

Basically, just shove the two together so that, over the course of 20 levels, they get all the class features of both. Rebalance it so that the abilities are more evenly spread out, but otherwise take them pretty much as is.

What do people think of this?

I do the same thing. They get the Ardent power progression and mantle selection, and all of the Divine Mind aura abilities. I don't give them Divine Grace.

I also strip them down to poor BAB, poor Fortitude saves, and d6 HD.

But what do other people think?

Well, I run Gestalt, so your mileage may vary. But I've found this is a very solid way of dealing with "weak" classes that are thematically linked. I did the same thing with Hexblade and Warlock, and combined several base classes with Prestige Classes that were essentially built for them.

Recalling from long-term memory here, but I believed the 3rd Edition designers equated the value of 18/00 with around Strength of 25 or 26 (not sure of the exact number) in 3.0. In other words, there is no way to start with 18/00 in the core 3rd Edition rules*.

It's 23-- what a 20th level Fighter would have if he started with an 18 and dropped all of his level-based increases into Strength. (Also, what it takes to have a +6 modifier. Nice parallel.) I've seen a lot of other d20 games use 23 as the standard for "maximum human ability" based on this.

Personally, I was never willing to risk a perfectly good 18 on something as risky as a d%. My Fighters were always Half-Ogres or Alaghi.

Even PrCs that bump two classes worth of abilities, such as the Mystic Theurge, could be utterly replaced with some Feats like Practiced Spellcaster.

My DM runs a feat similar to this

Mystic Theurge
You have combined the paths of arcane and divine magic, blah blah.

Both of those ideas are fantastic. Something like this would make a much better "patch" for multiclassing-- especially multicasters-- than an endless procession of Prestige Classes.

Yes. I would encourage reasonable differentiation. As I've said a couple times in this thread, I'd like to see better design for new core classes that are viable over the campaign. The spellthief, for example, is a really cool core class that I wish I'd seen before my current PC (about to retire) who is a rogue 10/fighter 2/spellthief 4. I would be spellthief 16 right about now. With good core classes that one can take from day one, there's a lot less need for Prestige Classes.

See, this is where I think Gestalt is a fantastic tool for character differentiation. Your character should be able to work beautifully as a Rogue/Wizard or Rogue/Bard 16, and most of the Spellthief tricks would work well as Ambush feats.

The idea, in my mind, is to generate a situation where players can get what they want in a balanced environment. Why is it people think pointbuy promotes balance when all it does is promote dumping.

I prefer a combination of low point buy and rapid improvement. Use the Standard Fantasy or even the Low Fantasy point buy values... and the Conan RPG rule that in addition to the +1 to one ability score every 4 levels, you gain +1 to all of your ability scores at 6th and every 4 afterwards. House Rule that you can't improve the same score twice in a row.

Yeah. You're still going to get the occasional Fighter who starts with sevens in Intelligence and Charisma. But he'll get better. Your MAD monkey is probably going to start with more reasonable scores, and keep them well-rounded as he advances.

Why does a character *have* to have an 18 in a stat? Is a wizard with 16 INT unplayable?

Not until 15th level.

Certain things should never have seen the light of day. Gestalt characters are one of them.

Gestalt rules allow you to take a smaller number of base classes and produce a much wider variety of character types and archetypes with them, and allow for more multifaceted characters without the role dilution that comes from multiclassing.

Common soldiers can be Warriors or Fighters. Heroic Fighters are also inspiring commanders, shock troopers, or esoteric swordsaints. Clerics of war gods should be accomplished warriors without losing effectiveness as Clerics, and Clerics of gods of thievery should be effective thieves. A Monk's rigorous training can lead him down a multitude of other martial or spiritual disciplines.

Almost all of the problems with Gestalt come from classes designed to cover those gaps in a single class environment-- Duskblade, Psychic Warrior, Spellthief, about a thousand PrCs-- or from people who take all of the opportunities for depth and flexibility and choose to hyperspecialize instead-- Warmage/Evokers, Paladin/Clerics, Fighter/Dragon Devotee//Barbarian/Dragon Disciple, Druid//Monk/Master of Many Forms/Warshaper, to use a handful of examples.

Ugh. Bard//Sorcerer/Divine Oracle/Virtuoso.

But for every one of those horrors, there are dozens of beautifully multifaceted characters that can spring from the interaction of a couple of different base classes.

Instead tehy've become part of an extended game of "how great can I tweak my PC by taking this, that and the other option in order?"

Hell, that's my favorite part of D&D, and for the most part that includes Pathfinder. It's just a matter of how people get there, and what paths are worth pursuing. As it stands, the status quo is against single-classing and base classes.

Pathfinder's already gone a very long way to fixing that.

Could always hire an Alienist to summon the most horrible thing in its repertoire, feed it the gem, and then have him dismiss it again. There's pretty much nothing that anyone could send in after the gem that would come back intact-- and they're certainly not going to go in there after it themselves.

The real White Mage is the Healer class. Light armor (no metal), simple weapons, and nothing but healing/protective spells. Seriously.

I had Healers in my game, as one of my favorite classes. I looked at Paladin's lay on hands and decided it would replace the Healer's grab-bag of 1/day healing abilities.

Then I finally decided that the Cleric's channel energy really wasn't that bad-- I had some issues with ranged and mass healing at low levels-- and the Healer ended up on the scrap heap.

As for the White Mage... that's my favorite role and I would love to play them more often, but for some reason, Evil Clerics are not allowed to channel positive energy. (Out of all of the alignment-based rules, this is the one I find most offensive.) So, I usually end up a Psion/Sangehirn or a Bard.

He won't risk it again.

Wow. That's just...so many different kinds of evil.

We were talking about assassinating someone and then making sure that not even true resurrection was a viable option. One might be able to make certain assumptions about the morality of the people we're advising.

I suppose if the person they were assassinating absolutely had it coming, and his death serves "the greater good", you could go the trap the soul route. Biggest problem is if he was a serious threat to you, his friends might be able to steal the gem from you and free him.

If you're still allowed to set foot in the Upper Planes after this little escapade, you can always find yourself a Great Wyrm Gold who died of old age and ask him to protect it in exchange for being able to keep it. If the guy's evil enough to deserve this, his friends are going to have one Hell of a time retrieving that gem.

Pun mostly unintended.

I would recommend using it mostly as-is, but I'm only using some Pathfinder rules in a nonstandard D&D environment. It isn't as powerful as standard spellcasters, especially given the new upgrades.

To power it up appropriately, what I'd recommend is giving it an extra four invocations over 20 levels, but forcing Warlocks to use half on essences and shapes, and the other half on invocations. Then pick some appropriate level and give them the ability to use two essences simultaneously.

You should also replace the level two ability to detect magic at-will with something that every other spellcaster in the book doesn't already have. Or at least give them the ability to use the full list of Sorcerer cantrips.

My other suggestion would be to use Warlock purely as-is, but alternate it with Sorcerer (with an appropriate bloodline) and build to Eldritch Theurge. The Warlock really shines when combined with a real spellcaster, in a way that enhances both.

Waiving the alignment restrictions on one or the other, Paladin/Warlock makes an excellent (if strange) Eldritch Disciple build.

I tend to run Gestalt games. I think changing the balance of power so that taking more levels in your base classes-- and even running one or both to 20-- instead of more complicated multiple PrC builds is fascinating and I am mining heavily from the Pathfinder rules as I'm reestablishing my D&D House Rules.

I would like to see the game develop in a direction where Prestige Classes are uncommon, and represent only the most obscure specializations and the rarest and strangest abilities.

I love turn-based CRPGs. Pretty much all I play, except I have to at least try all the new hotness at least once before going back to my copy of Pool of Radiance.

It's almost like playing with real people. You lose out on the interaction and the party dynamics... but you get to let your inner munchkin out of the box and turn him loose.

I would love to see a turn-based Pathfinder CRPG, especially if it managed to implement the majority of the rules.

Point buy. And either half-round-up or max for HP rolls.

Randomness belongs inside the game.

Besides, one thing I've learned is that no matter what the die-rolling system for the game is, everybody cheats. Sometimes the GM encourages it, sometimes he shakes his head at the player's "amazing luck", and sometimes he even calls shenanigans on blatant flouting of the laws of probability... but everybody cheats.

Better just to lay the expectations out beforehand.

I just replace Spellcraft with Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (nature), and Knowledge (psionics).

All this focus on the body misses the point. Only thing you can do by attacking the body is raise the spell level and material cost of bringing him back. If his friends are determined enough, they'll make it happen.

You have to attack the soul.

Trap the soul has already been mentioned, but that still leaves the soul in an object that can, eventually, be tracked down and recovered.

Only two ways to take someone permanently out of the game: make them unwilling to come back, or follow them into the afterlife and destroy them there.

First one's easy. Pay for the raise dead yourself. Bring some of his kids with you, "so they can be there when he comes back." Give them a couple minutes, get the kids out of the room, and tell him it'd be best for everyone involved if he stayed dead this time. Kill him again. Make up an excuse for the kids.

Find a different cleric, from a different (friendly) religion. Pay for another raise. If the cleric says he won't come back, you win. If he comes back, tell him you already warned him twice and this time there's consequences. Kill him.

He won't risk it again.

Last Barbarian I played was Desmond, a half-orc orphan who'd never met a full-blooded orc in his life but hated them because of what he assumed they'd done to his saintly mother-- who had died in childbirth. He was Barbarian/Rogue, a street tough "made good" as a local hero. Stronger and faster than most of the other alley rats, and a tendency to "lose it" in a fight or of anyone made any comments about his heritage.

Of course, best session I played with him is when he finally met his father. His grief-stricken, widowed, human father.

I love characters with ugly backstories.