That's a really good point, and one that can only be addressed table-by-table. If you're playing something fatally ineffectual with 5 optimized characters, I wouldn't call that even potentially disruptive. Even if you're subpar, everyone else at the table more than makes up for a weak link, so the only person who might suffer is you.
Even worse when there are 4 average PCs and the 5th player brings their monk/oracle/bard, Not only can they not contribute by removing the 4 player adjustment they have made the game harder for the other players.
A character is never worthless. A player can play any character in a worthless manner.
[sic]
I am from Pathfinder Lodge of Jacksonville Fl, and I have had players turn to me in play and say "your character is **&^%$ worthless"- for this exact reason: they all want to play ... is it 'OP' - over powered- and I play for fun and flavor, or a theme, etc. And yes, our group is now awful to play with. This is off-topic from original question re. whip, but our Lodge has VO's doing whatever they want, anyway (like 'banning' deal of original post thread)--- and that is a people problem, not a PFS rule problem. Unfortunately, you can't force people to be fair. You may want to find personal friends and start your own game if you can't find a fun game within your lodge, if you're playing Organized Play... Best of LUck.
Well, okay so then in my example... If I brought a bladebound kensai whip magus to the table [sic]
'Bladebound', and 'Kensai', are two different Magus archetypes. I looked and don't think they replace any of same abilities, but maybe your GM was thinking of the combining of two archetypes like that; but I think that's legal like I said. Unless he specifically said he didn't 'like' the "whip", deal.... then it's just prejudice.
I posted on the forum site of PFS, FL for a game night, commenting on a GM refusing me a seat at a table because 'we are already too far into it (emerald spire) to add a new player'. I had just finished running book 1 of shattered star, and had at least 5 people that sat in on only 1 of the four sessions it took me to take a 'group' thru this book; I did not refuse a seat to anyone any night we had someone not show, had a seat, et al.
Our Venture Captain, James A., removed my posts, then had a nasty tone when he announced at the next game night that "it has always been the policy if you are a GM or an Event Coordinator, that you can refuse a seat to ANYONE".
I do nthink this is appropriate. Unless a person has exhibited disruptive behavior and has had to be talked to by a Venture Officer, then I don't care if you are 3 adventures into a game (like a shatterd star book), if you just started, or if you just don't like someone... I believe that if it is ORGANIZED PLAY, at a GAME STORE, POSTED, with an EVENT CODE from Paizo; and with Paizo supporting the Pathfinder Society with staff coordination, products, the online community/organized play concept itself--- then to start saying 'we don't have to sit you', is to announce that you are discriminatory, and I don't hold with this.
I have created my own event code and will be reporting any tables I gm under this code. I will be running my tables as part of our regularly-scheduled game nights at our local game store on Tuesdays, and I am inviting a few people at first to come play with me, then we will fill up the remaining slots (up to 6) with WHOEVER WANTS TO PLAY< REGARDLESS OF what I think of you :). You are welcome at MY table, and I am not going to be part of some 'clique' that says just because I'm a Venture Officer, I can remove your posts because you slurred my friend or spoke badly of my lack of organizing (our store 'rep' had not shown for nearly 2 months now- that was the other post that got removed)... and 'because I'm a gm/organizer' I can say whether you play or not. That is ... cannot post bad words. It's just not right, and I feel PFS should not endorse such statements.
Cary Holladay
I really like the comment about giving the other person time to speak without interrupting AND then repeating it back before you reply to make sure that everyone is hearing the same thing.... Lots of people do not realize this!!! or do this.... Everyone is on same track- THEIR track- and seem to 'disregard' what point the other person is attempting to make: when you REPEAT it, you let them know that yes, you did hear them,.... 'but'....
Those 'rules' for a "discussion" should be printed up and passed out at every meet! :)
HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Silver Hex arguments amongst party members, gm's, even my VC--- ALL having differing versions of 'what's legit' on this.....
Can I PLEASE get an official reply from Mike Brock or equivalent:
Is the chronicle sheet for this adventure 'cumulative', or is it a flat 1 XP and 2 Prestige Points for the entire thing?
My question is thus: It does NOT make sense for 6 hours of play to 'only' get a TOTAL of 1 XP, 2 Prestige. I know these are 'short' vignettes, so to speak- but still. No one is going to want to play an adventure where if you complete one quest-- 1 hour of play- you get 1 XP and 1 Prestige-- Yet if you sit for 6 hours and play, you (still) only get "1 XP", and now 2 Prestige, only.
I was told initially that it is CUMULATIVE. That EACH LINE is what you get for 'that quest'. If you completed all 6, then, you'd have the TOTAL of all the lines of that chronicle sheet:
Quests Gold Pieces XP Prestige Points Other
1 100 gp 1 1
2 250 gp 1 1
3 250 gp 1 1 Impressive Find boon
4 350 gp 1 2
5 500 gp 1 2
6 500 gp 1 2 Treasure Seeking boon
As you can see, all 6 completed would be 6 XP, and 9 Prestige. With 1950 g.p. total. Each line/each quest, totaled up, then, as it/they were completed.
It does not make sense for someone to complete one quest and get 100 g.p. and 1 XP and 1 Prestige, while the person completing all 6 only gets 500 g.p. and (still) 1 XP and now only 2 Prestige.
I can't think of ANY adventure where you only get 1 or 2 Prestige; and none where I could play for 1 hour, twice or multiple times or so- using the recurring play rules- and rack up the XP/Prestige [i.e. play it just one quest at a time for 6 times, and viola- you have 6 XP now... right?], versus the guy who sat thru the whole thing one night and got so little..... Can I PLEASE have a breakdown of how this chronicle sheet is supposed to be awarded: I have 10 players now screaming for justice!!!!! Thanks!
From first Read-Through, I see the Kineticist's biggest flaw is an inability to deal with DR or Energy Resistance or worse, Immunity.
GM: You see a small Fire Elemental
Pyrokineticist: Well, I'm useless, I run away.
Some of this can be mitigated with Expanded Element ta level 7, and I honestly do see too many people not taking it at level 7 which makes me wonder why bothering making it a selection and not just give it at level 7?
Also, I am seeing a glaring hole in their abilities. Shouldn't they be receiving resistance versus their own element?
These are all very good questions I'd like to see answered.
I thought in reading the material that a blast counts as magic for the purposes of overcoming DR
?
One question I have though, is: What about inanimate objects? Can I air blast a door to pieces? A blast has damage,but the book says "You batter a single foe with a gust of air as a ranged attack. If you hit, the target suffers...[x damgage]". So- does that mean I can or can't damage a door, or just only a 'living' foe? Does that mean no hurting constructs, etc. also? Undead?
Thanks!
(and why Kitten is wearing a football mouthpiece, I have no clue...)
That is an AWESOME, creative one... ! I like it. (Baker solution)
Re. 'sunder': I thought...
Movie plot spoiler:
I thought Cursed Items were like... dunno', almost like artifacts: You can't do 'normal' magicky stuff on them, let alone normal ACTION-type stuff on them..Like, they'd be impervious to someone trying to cut it off (even if you had adamantine!), or- that's why "ONLY a Wish, Limited Wish, or MIracle, will work..." ?????? Am I wrong? We could've just pried the damn thing off? That doesn't really jibe with me, with my understanding of 'cursed' [item]...... >>>>?????.
Opera house scenario tells GMs on page 6 that ** spoiler omitted **: so that's a GM bad (read more closely, please)
Jester's Fraud venture captain intro states ** spoiler omitted ** and asking the right question of an NPC later makes the warning even more clear; PCs who put they find on are asking for it.... PCs, putting gear that you find isn't always a good idea!
As for the 3rd, ** spoiler omitted **
For your 3 examples:
1) You have a GM who needs to prep better/read more closely
2) You have PCs who didn't think things through
3) You have a module which does allow for people wanting to do the right thing -- it's just harder.
Kitten's answer to the 3...:
1. yeah.
2. No. we never met any NPC's who had 'more' information, and how would that be different than thinking you had made the DC to identify the 'Potion of Cure Light Wounds' at 1st level, drink it after a battle, and get horribly poisoned with a 25 DC Save for a 1st-leveler...? [it's not] People use in-game stuff a lot; but there is always some balance. This is combatted only by a 13th level solution (or a huge financial 'penalty' to keep the character, aftewards)- it is a 5-9th level game.
3. Nope. Not given that option, either. so again was GM.
Ok, that's an out of the box type solution I didn't expect.
** spoiler omitted **
UM< ERROR WITH THAT>>>>>>>
:
The item/GM specifically said you cannot remove it until a month has gone by NATURALLY [?] where you have decomposed into dirt (into dirt my words; item says: It cannot be removed by any means short of a limited wish, wish, or miracle and remains clasped around the victim's throat even after his death. Only when he has decayed to a dry skeleton (after approximately 1 month) does the necklace loosen). So that would mean you could not magically speed that up? I think it is written that way because then you need a Resurrection due to that time elapsed. And it was 12,190 g.p. to add a restoration to it so as not to have a neg. level. My character so far had only earned 46,000 gold for its entire LIFE. So that was a 'punitive' more- than- a- 1/4 of my wealth 'fee' to keep this character....for an item only a 13th level caster on a 5-9 tier game could have 'countered'. Even if 'decompose' et al would 'work', you're still dead, and need to pay to continue playing, with same ... issue as before: Why have something so horribly out-of-tier that is so final, or IS it just to cost someone all their money?
Ah. Well, no. And that is good point. But during any scenario, don't you always drink the 'potion of cure light wounds' at some time?... The DC's for stuff on this were like in the 40's. I had Perception 22, 'naturally'- and BARELY made the roll to follow tracks to where we found this stuff. But my guy is a freak; no one else could come NEAR the 50+ DC needed to find out exactly what this necklace was: I was told (with a 28 result) 'You think it's either wound closure or proof against poison. So since we took nearly an hour and a half on just the FIRST fight, getting our butts handed to us, I figured- hey, why not use this in case it gets nasty again. But then the only way to combat those 'results' (ugly death) is the point I made- on a 5-9 tier scenario, they have an item that only a 13th level caster could POSSIBLY remedy, recover from, whatever. In other words- it is a guaranteed death of someone, PERIOD. Or, if you choose to look at it: a punitive 'more than a quarter of the character's accumulated wealth at 8th level [TOTAL wealth of ALL scenarios ever played!!!!]'- "penalty" to let your character continue to live. NO OTHER RECOURSE. That, to me, was a little harsh I think.
This is answered in general comments; the necklace was found at a battle site-> so nobody 'told' us about "some necklace that chokes people'. this seemed just a monetarily punitive action to screw with a character/drain money from that character- for the raised dead, restoration--- since at that level there is NO way a player can combat the item... [sorry- in someone's reply post @ general discussion thread: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rhle?Why-do-scenarios-railroad-players-into#1
you cannot cut a cursed magic item with adamantine, I dont believe.....
1. Is a module (Masks of the Living God), and so not a PFS scenario as best I can tell. So the only way you fail to get prestige in a module is by not finishing it.
2. I believe the GM was trying to make you buy stuff. If this is Among the Living, then there is no stipulation that you have to look pretty and can't bring your weapons. As a matter of fact, there is no social interaction in this one really.
3. I've played this one, and scanned it over just now. And I have no idea what you are talking about.
It sounds like you had a GM that was making stuff up.
Ah. Sorry. did not know how to add the spoiler tags; thank you to whomever fixed that up for me. I just went to 'how to format' so let's see if this works....
Movie plot spoiler:
The baker one we did go back later and repay but we couldn't/weren't allowed any chance(s) to tell the baker AT THE TIME, we weren't 'for real', AND we had to do the action to begin with, which still is a stickler for Pal/et al. regardless of any 'going back to fix it, later'-ideas. The opera house... nope- nothing said about penalty on reactions etc., it was as I said, so that was a total miss on GM part, I guess. And the last one, we found the necklace inside a bag on someone's dead mount at a battle site; there was nobody there [alive]. No time during Scenario BEFORE that encounter did we meet anyone with that info. So to me it seemed a punitive 'let's cost a character 12-grand' (to get raised/restored, after the inevitable fact of let's kill someone, period)... Thanks for all the feedback.
I have a question and am not familiar enough with these 'boards' to know where to post, as my comment actually covers more than just this one scenario.
**{Just found out how to post under General Discussion, here: This was originally put onto the product discussion for Jesters Fraud}**
Question: Why do scenarios, modules often 'railroad' the party into specific things with NO alternatives?
Spoiler:
1. To infiltrate the temple, you have to go rough up an innocent baker and wreck his shop (the people we are trying to infiltrate are with us, watching,and we 'lose the scenario/[no prestige]' "if we do not do as they say". [i.e., we can't/aren't allowed to 'fake it']...
What about the Paladin in this action? What if my character doesn't WANT to abuse an innocent? Why is a scenario telling me to do that (or I'm not successful), when PFS says my characters 'can't be evil', 'can't coup de grace', etc etc.? This is one-sided! And unfair.
2. One was an opera house. GM told us point blank, "you have to have an expensive outfit (50 g.p. or more- and we are all 1st level except for 1 or 2 of us! [I prestidigitated my bag of copper coins to buy one]), or you won't be let in. you have to have no weapons or armor/ If you even TRY to bribe the guards/sneak in/ etc etc etc. (any alternative we came up with)--- you will NOT I REPEAT NOT succeed, you won't get in, this game [scenario] effectively ends".
So then we get in with fancy clothes and no weapons and armor to have the doors slam shut and get ganged up on by hordes of zombie undead and nearly everyone dies. Dropping like flies. Only had 1 wand of curing smuggled in [we were all 1st level or so]; that person went around healing back those who droppped while the others ran around perimeter in circles leading zombies in a chase to give that guy time to reach the dying ones... That SUCKED [we were deliberately entrapped, weaponless and defenseless, by the SCENARIO!] !!! And we were told that was only way to get in. Period.
3. RE THIS SCENARIO: "Jester's Fraud"- You have a cursed item that only a 13th level character can combat, that kills permanently, immediately. NO SAVES!!!! Only can be stopped by the LOWEST available [of 3 alternatives] spell level of 7th; meaning a 13th level Wizard. um- this is Tier 5-9.
Why do you guys do this? I disagree STRONGLY. Very wrong.
I have a question and am not familiar enough with these 'boards' to know where to post, as my comment actually covers more than just this one scenario.
Question: Why do scenarios, modules often 'railroad' the party into specific things with NO alternatives?
Spoiler:
1. To infiltrate the temple, you have to go rough up an innocent baker and wreck his shop (the people we are trying to infiltrate are with us, watching,and we 'lose the scenario/[no prestige]' "if we do not do as they say".
What about the Paladin in this action? What if my character doesn't WANT to abuse an innocent? Why is a scenario telling me to do that (or I'm not successful), when PFS says my characters 'can't be evil', 'can't coup de grace', etc etc.? This is one-sided! And unfair.
2. One was an opera house. GM told us point blank, "you have to have expensive outfit, or you won't be let in. you have to have no weapons or armor/ If you even TRY to bribe the guards/sneak in/ etc etc etc. (any alternative we came up with)--- you will NOT I REPEAT NOT succeed, you won't get in, this game [scenario] effectively ends".
So then we get in with fancy clothes and no weapons and armor to have the doors slam shut and get ganged up on by hordes of zombie undead and nearly everyone dies. Dropping like flies. Only had 1 wand of curing smuggled in [we were all 1st level or so]; that person went around healing back those who droppped while the others ran around perimeter in circles leading zombies in a chase to give that guy time to reach the dying ones... That SUCKED! And we were told that was only way to get in. Period.
3. RE THIS SCENARIO: "Jester's Fraud"- You have a cursed item that only a 13th level character can combat, that kills permanently, immediately. NO SAVES!!!! Only can be stopped by the LOWEST spell level of 7th; meaning a 13th level Wizard. um- this is Tier 5-9.
Why do you guys do this? I disagree STRONGLY. Very wrong.
