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Daz Bangfang turns in his resignation

Let me know what ya'll think of this.

Human centric anything in a fantasy world where there is supposed to contain considerable populations of other races.

I've played a gnoll paladin, that was also the party's cook, and carried a percolator to make coffee every morning for everyone.

Shelyn more then likely. I am an artist. I do tend toward NG. Or at least doing what I feel is right, in the moment. I like sharing and helping others get better at artwork if I can. And as a um...not good looking fellow when my ego is being honest I can appreciate inner beauty in others over the outer stuff.

I think the book really did miss a mark on not including some of the other racial ethnicities like the Pahmet. Or at least should of let ethnicity be applied to all races and not just humans.

I was fine with and enjoyed the coverage of the human ethnicities. If I have any complaints it's that we didn't get more treatment of the existing non-human ethnicities. It would have been nice if the Ekujae Elves, or the Pahmet dwarves, got there own two page or something entries. Also didn't really much care for the amount of space being spent on half-races, which don't have their own culture and tended to end up being a bit repetitive because of that.

Well to me it'd of been so much better if they had 2 pages of human coverage, and then spread the 62 pages ethnicity stuff over EVERY race in the Inner Sea. But in that light the Ekujae Elves and Pahmet dwarves should get coverage too, if that much detail is going to be locked to one race that already has everything.

I will agree that a dog/wolf race or even a rabbit race would be nice. It isn't needed. but it would be nice.

As for the rest, well .. this is the Inner Sea Races. The main portion of the races of the Inner Sea are humans, in all their infinite glory. Humans usually get a lot of attention in not only Pathfinder but in a wide assortment of RPGs and sci-fi/fantasy work. They thrive in Star Trek even though other races have powers that they don't. They appear to thrive in Star Wars, despite not being cool colored or furry.

Well I'll admit, in this context 'need' and 'want' are interchangeable.

They do get a lot of attention, and that's why there are people clamoring to see them less, and the other races get a chance at the spotlight, as it is, humans get the sun while halflings, dwarves, and elves, and half races are equivalently in a basement with one 40 watt bulb flickering on and off. That's not to even compare the other non core races. I see the point on Trek and Wars, but thriving and dominating EVERYTHING are two different things. The human populace of the Federation doesn't own 95%+ of the known galaxy for example.

I will say that the derogatory language about humans is where the blowback comes in from posters. If someone said that they are tired of meow meow kitty kitty cat people, you'd hear people howling for blood. Tired of the continued harping about kitsune and their tails, you'd have people asking for your head. It's cool to slam humans and/or the core races. It's the in thing to say that they are boring, that there is nothing to do with them, that the more exotic races are oh so much more interesting because .. well, they just are, right?

I for one am thankful that there is ANY material at all about the less common races. It could have been a design choice to only mention them in passing and give nothing more than a few mechanics scattered across a few books about them.

In that you are right I should lay off the 'monkey' stuff. But I have heard people on these forums bash 'xfolk race' or ban this race, ban that race it's overpowered, it's a furry ewww, or Paizo should kill off 'x' race. (That one got deleted though as I can't find it anymore.) To me personally humans are boring, the same way I personally find Superman boring, they get it all, best at everything, no real believable threats,(Worldwound maybe?) Etc. The only thing it seems that keeps humans from being 100% on Golarion is other humans. (Which is generally the generic fluff of Orcs in Fantasy, if they ever united yada yada unstoppable, but the inverse is more truthful.) If presented as a united front there isn't a place unconquerable on the map, Kyonin (Elf), 5 Kings Mountains (Dwarf), Hold of Belkzen (Orc), none of those places could possibly hold out.

And speaking of Elves, as example I guarantee you story wise it won't be an elf that takes out a big bad like Treerazer, it'll be a human with a special sword that after the big bad has slaughtered all the 'helpless' elves will 'bop' the monster and big bad is dead. Hooray the human. The only non-human, major protagonist in a D&D or Pathfinder novel series was Tanis, Drizzt, and Varian Jeggare. (And admittedly Cattie Brie, Artemis and Wulfgar are all really well done human characters. The Dragonlance ones...eh...I don't hate them but I mean Fizban isn't really a human either.)

Ross Byers wrote:

By which I mean, it you have a 'race of warriors' (Klingons) in your setting, there's going to be some people who will only make Klingon Barbarians - because if they're playing a fight-y type, they want to use the fight-y race. Even though you could make a human barbarian too.

And the others players want to make counterculture characters, like a Klingoon investigator or a klingon pacifist healer. As human are good in everthing, they can´t make their loved odd ducks.

I don´t believe it, as odd combinations are very possible, Varisians Paladins, Ulfen Wizards, Vudran Skaldi, Chelaxian Barbarians, etc, are allways special snowflakes.

And yet I've seen people get hammered because they want to play the counter culture. "Oh no Dwarves can't/shouldn't be Wizards or Sorcerers. They should only be Clerics or Fighters." Or "Halflings can only be rogues" cause god forbid someone wants to play an agile yet very angry short fella with a big axe.

That said, I'm with the person that would like to play the Ulfen Sylph, I'd welcome that character concept to my table.

If the ethnicities can/could be applied over all races in the books there might not be as much hate, and we do need a dog/wolf race and maybe a Lapine/Rabbit race. But that's neither here nor there.

The big problem with human-centric is many fold, 64 pages of hairless vanilla monkeys is a lot. When other races get 2 pages or less then a paragraph. Especially when humans have since the very beginning got 95% of the Pathfinder coverage. Then you look at what role humans play. 9/10 they are cannon fodder/monster food, or the mastermind BBEG. The 1 out of 10 humans are generally the named NPCs that either hand out quests or are speed bump villains. The PC human is generally in the minority of party composition for most gaming groups. (Our group only had one guy that even played the race.) Yet we are supposed to believe they are over 9 tenths of Golarion's humanoid population. So not only are they over saturated, but by and large just numbers alone they out number the races that are supposed to be the endless hordes like the orcs and goblins.

If they had those numbers then you have to look at either the breeding out of or given human nature the far more likely genocidal removal of every Elf, Dwarf, Gnome, all the way to the rarest of rare races within two generations. Humans are also stupidly overpowered/overly flexible in the mechanics of the game, with some of (if not across all classes) the best racial FC bonuses. A racial feat with more potential for abuse then even Leadership, and so many other annoy things.

So TLDR a lot of the hate of the human-centric stuff is the race is already getting the very best of the best, and yet they are generic, boring, oversaturated, over covered, and it feels like the race is really PUSHED on people whether they want them or not and those who play the game to ESCAPE being human in the real world.

Or for an even easier TLDR read this: http://horizonwalking.blogspot.com/2014/03/orthoss-observations-humans.html

My best dressed character? Oh that's gotta be my Daz Bangfang

I mean that fur coat, both on him and the fur lined cloak of resistance and pants, rocking sandals, practical yet stylish belts, poofy entertainer's outfit, a gold leaf earring and a well made backpack. Not to mention those weapon cord accessories. And Raccoon > Parrot. :P

Orang-Pendaks, Vanaras, and Humans....eck to many monkeys...would of been nice to get a wolf and bunny anthro (since there is that harrow card) PC races. /slight joke but serious about more anthro races.

I am really happy to hear more familiars though.

Rise of the Runelords: Anniversary Edition

A negative energy and a positive energy Kineticist options sound awesome to me.

Hey don't feel bad I game by myself all the time, make my own parties and run them through an adventure. I then usually use what happens to write stories about the characters. And then when you do see an opening for a game you have 4-5 well tested character ideas to plug in for the party.

I think Corvus and Myth Lord pretty much echoe most of my thoughts.

Especially this:

I just don't find humans mechanically interesting(or any of core races for that matter) and thematically they aren't that interesting to me since because we are all humans, they are the default and so are the norm you compare weirder stuff to. Sure each of human cultures in game is interesting, but race itself? Not really.

Though I do like Half Orcs

As I said, it's much more interesting to apply the culture across all the races, then lock everything into humans.

No, I read it as people take pride in their work product, as I'm sure Ms. Price does, and to see someone write something negative, something based solely on personal preference, could seem as devaluing work they have put so much into, it's a bit difficult to swallow.

I believe everyone works their backsides off at Paizo, but a statement of personal preference and opinion shouldn't be attacked either. It's not devalueing the work.

But the fact remains humans are WAY over represented, mechanical over powered (or overly flexible really, there isn't an overpowered race under 20rp), and over covered right now. It's nice to have quality products like the ARG, and the Monster Codex, where humans are the blurbs, and the deeper and richer races get some spotlight other then 'rawr monster' which is a category that even the other 'CORE' races get dropped into.

And as I said in response to James Jacobs remarks on the GM needing monsters, nothing has more monstrous potential then a human.

I just don't want to play as one, and really if the option ever came up (never happen but I wish) I'd walk away from humanity to be a catfolk in real life.

Humans are hairless and tailless monkeys and as interesting as the channel that shows you how to use the remote 24/7, ^-^

I think ethnicity should apply across races. Humans should not have that all to themselves.

Nothing has more monstrous potential then a human ;)

Or high elves thanks to TES.

But still, I love gnolls, have played a paladin in a campaign set in Mendev, gunslinger in Kingmaker, a barbarian in CotCC, and currently a Chirurgeon Alchemist in RotR

I hate seeing humans in fantasy settings, books and movies.

Furries rule and I love them being 'mostly' in Pathfinder.

I like point buy

Wrath of Khan sucked compared to Into Darkness.

I hate humans as a race

The best villains are humans and elves.

Unchained was completely unnecessary.

The Rogue is a ton of fun to play.

Brawlers are kind of dumb.

The Belt of 'Giantess' Strength is my favorite magic item/cursed item.

I hate humans in RPGs

I like to play Pathfinder and D&D alone sometimes.

That only shows that inherently chaotic foxes will not be contained to the forest of spirits! It´s in their nature to wander all lands and prank on people, while mixing with them! And they are a lot less suspicious than catfolk actually. So much for the human-centric world.

Here's to hoping less human-centric worlds in the future. Or at least no more human material in Pathfinder. They get too much as is.

Considering I have loved just about everything J.J. has done. Including making the two BEST Trek movies ever. I'm liking what I'm seeing.

That made me laugh.

Perfectly legal, though Silken Ceremonial Armor LOOKS more arcane casty armor.

Divine Hunter Pally, if it's evil it dies.

So basically I'm working on an alternate 'Earth' world where 'humans' are wiped out because of a mass release of Transmutation magic. (Not sure on 'exact' cause yet, but maybe a meteor or biological/technology reactivation of Earth's magic. And the return of magic obliterated most technological stuff.) The new races of Earth are transformed from humans to be: Dwarfs, Elves, Orcs, Halfling, Gnome, and the beast races like Kitsune, Catfolk, Ratfolk, Gnoll, Kobold, Tengu etc.

Now the only surviving religions have formed from pieces of pop culture, famous names and hearsay from books, movie box art, etc.

Any input and advice is highly interesting to me. Racial deities and other alignment and class favored deities kinda needed, as well as evil ones.

Catfolk to be a legal race.

The Hex Gunner would be cool but if you are dropping the familiar then I'd say the gun HAS to be the spellbook...and commune with it instead. RP on that would be fantastic.

I like the idea of the Shrine Maiden Oracle too, and for me...

I would like a Sumo archetype for Monk or Brawler.

Especially when Gnolls and Lizardfolk can be good too.

Catfolk, Gnoll, Kobold, and Wyvaran, and someone that will pay me to illustrate the races for them. :P

Oh god an Ogre Fighter, Ogre Ranger, Awakened Cat Swashbuckler, and awakened Donkey Bard with a dragon cohort.

Not really, there is a lot of reasons to put odd races into certain adventures that don't use the 'far from home' idea. Exotic races can be be former slaves, known mercenaries, wilderness guides, or the people that perform certain tasks that others find unsavory.

Awakened Ferret Barbarian. In your face literally.

Actually these would make fun monsters in a Bestiary too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_PrRd-Y56c

All I know is if you create a monster that looks like a clown and turns into a demon scorpion thing, and yells "They All Float Down Here!"....I'm not going to able to sleep for a month...again...

Thank ya.

And yes I feel exactly the same way as you do after reading that.

Well I figured there would be people with bigger libraries then mine. You do have Shugenja and Wu Jen listed twice though. But still...good detective work man.

Arturius Fischer wrote:

Quote:

But what I'm saying is there is ZERO brokenness in any class under 20 rp, zero, nada, none. They present zero problems in party or game balance.

Yeah, no. Comparing those to the 'standard' Core races results in a difference in balance, to the point where if they are an option, almost nobody will pick the old ones at all. Now, some people may cry 'RP purposes!', but those people are less concerned with rules balance anyway and don't quite grasp the problem.

That must be why nobody plays humans anymore.

Oh, except they're still exceedingly popular with optimizers, even beside those "broken" non-standard races. In fact, if it hadn't been for the FAQ about using an SLA to get early entry into a prestige class, human would likely be the undisputed king for optimizing.

^ This *hugs Scythia*

And KC Lizardfolk only have a +2 to Nat. Armor.

First just some raw data:

On base count it's 55 to 32 in favor of D&D add in archetypes though Pathfinder has a lot more class. And it could be argued that most of the 'extra' classes are almost archetypes in of themselves.

So I hear a lot of people starting to claim 'bloat' by Pathfinder that 'plagued' 3.5, first off I'm not a believer in 'bloat' as much as content became to much for a casual player to digest. However as DM and a player I love options, so at first you'd think D&D wins...however!

Pathfinder IMHO is a different beast in some regards, for one I had to look in I know a good 30+ books and internet sources to root out just how many there were in 3.5 (And in all likely hood I'm missing more then a few.) Pathfinder's classes are all found in what 5? (Core, APG, ACG, UM, and UC?) The 30+ pathfinder classes are a lot easier to access for a regular player then 3.5 ever was. (digital releases 'could' have a play on that though, but hey internet WAS around in the 2000's too...it just took up the phone line to use.)

Archetypes again expand these base classes out even more. So is it bloat? Meh I don't think so. When Gunslinger got pushed out people whined about bloat, then people realized that like Summoner it still had major exploitable faults when facing them. (Or from a DM standpoint presenting a challenge.) The new classes right now are a mixed bag, some are dead sexy like Skald and Shaman (for my tastes at least) others bore me and otherwise worry the anti-power gamer in me. (Arcanist) however give it time and as APs and new monsters come out I think there will be newer challenges that make the hybrids out to be just as balanced as all the other classes.

tldr: Pathfinder isn't bloated yet, but it's actually deeper and does more with less then what D&D 3.5 offered. That said I still like all the D&D classes too, Options and choice is what makes my day when building characters, npcs, and worlds.

Next: A look at D&D 3.5 PLAYABLE at 1st lvl races compared to Pathfinder, and my rant on the stupidity of ECL and Level adjustment.

No x infinity

Veto

Heck No

Absolutely not

De Nada

Don't you dare.

Game is fine as is, and I don't want to have to rebuy my books and pdfs under any circumstance. -_-;

What I'd like to see is a game like Final Fantasy Tactics, 3/4 isometric view, turn based combat, swap Jobs for Classes obviously. And while I'd like to see every class, prestige and archetype, I'd be happy with just every class. (Core, Basic, and Hybrid) And if you have to start out with just Core fine, but please add the ARG races even if they have to be DLC, I'll pay willingly extra for Gnoll, Catfolk, Kitsune and Ratfolk especially.

Above all else throw the hail mary and go all out on the character creation options. Aim at the deep ones like Soul Cailber 3, and Skyrim and try to blow them out of the water so that no two characters look the same.

Now as far as plot I have a suggestion. 1. Have a single player story where the player can make his party and work their way up through the levels to take on the big bad. Use the alignments of the party as a baseline for RP choices. Actual voice dialog is not important at all to me, so everything can be text. Using an AP like Rise of the Runelords would be great too as the base.

But 2. Have a campaign/scenario builder. Make your own dungeon and play to simulate your own stories.

And 3, while NO MEANS necessary, it would be kinda fun to have pvp 'arena'.

Come on. ** spoiler omitted **

But yes, I DO like how the entire 'Technology Style' is that of Barrier Peaks / Gamma World. AKA: Crazy science-fantasy like the good old novels and not the pseudo-realistic hyper advanced stuff.

That being said, Chainsaws are only weapons in Evil Dead and 40K. For every other universe, I'd declare it an Improvised Weapon in all cases, but as it is, I'm going to make one crazy chainsaw-wielding Horror-movie style villain for my PC's to deal with later...

One possible idea for chainsaws might be to treat them like crossbows: no strength bonus. After all, if you try hitting a tree harder with a chainsaw, you won't cut it down any faster, you'll just break your saw.

I have to agree I'm a bit unnerved by this getting into the hands of the power gamers in my group...

Considering lizardfolk tend to eat humans(and there own kind) I can see them being in there.

Yet considering it's not even illegal in the United States to eat someone, it's really just a 'culture' thing. 'You don't waste anything' mentality is what Lizardfolk have. And I've played a Lizardfolk like that as a PC and he was fun. Party thought it was weird at first, but the fact he'd do EVERYTHING in his power to keep them alive made them realize he was still 'good' And nobody minded his crocodile animal companion eating the hag...God bless Mad Dog Barbarians...

And I've never used catfolk, and cannot wrap my head around the appeal. Different strokes, can't please all the people all the time, and so on.

And I've never used humans, I can not wrap my head around their appeal, no fur, no fangs, no personality, not even a tail! Weird hairless apes. But yeah I agree can't please everyone.

That just makes it even more interesting from a RP prospective.

It's not evil, it is kinda weird outside of the bipedal form...an...maybe serpentine if...naga like...eh *shrugs* Not the weirdest thing I've heard, and it wouldn't of bothered me much.

To be honest it'd make for a great novel read though. Nice spin on all those romance novels, and much more interesting then romances with bdsm dom wanna bes and/or sparkly vampires.

And it does make me think about how an Eidolon blooded Sorcerer would work.

And just a side on the whole 'married couple' idea I could see them raising a kid, get into an argument over parenting and the summoner go "Oh go away!" anytime he or she starts to lose the argument, to save face. :P

You know I prefer the 'cantina effect' and as far as overpowered to me only Drow Noble stands out as op in the entire listing of Core, Featured, and Uncommon races. I'd even argue the Advanced Races Here:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/advanced-races-11-20-r p

And ESPECIALLY the Standards here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/standard-races-1-10-rp

Are no more oped then a stinky plain vanilla human.

I'd be one happy kitty cat if Paizo just opened all 50 (by my count) playable races. And just keep the caveat of having to have the book or watermarked pdf to play them.

A Sumo archetype for Monks

Something set in the stone age.

Ratfolk and Wizard are the obvious starting points, but looking to build one for Golarion, and yet stay close to the Warhammer roots on what they do.

But what school fits them best? What makes good opposition schools?

I mean some spells they have in Warhammer fit into Golarion just fine.
Teleport, Dimension Door, Lightning Bolt, Cloudkill, etc.

It's just some...it's harder to mimic they do have one spell in the Ruin style that buffs allies, but can potentially kill them, so my fellow PCs might not appreciate that one and I don't think there is a spell similar.

The Plague style outside of the Cloudkill gets a bit harder to match. They can summon rat swarms, give allies poisoned attacks, breath poison/plague onto enemies, make their enemies slowly shrivel and die (enervation?), and infect their enemies.

Then there is the crème de le crème spell that turns their victims into Skaven, or they horribly mutate and die. I'm thinking Transmuter but all the plague and death stuff is similar to Necromancy (though they can't raise dead oddly)

Also need those horns somehow...maybe...

-------------------------------------------------

Other then that I'd like to make a facsimile to Ikit Claw, I'm thinking the Plague Alchemist archetype Ratfolk get maybe...but just look at his Sir Badassness: Model

Artwork

Old style

Got to have at least Medium Armor, Glaive, and that flame thrower claw (combo of spell and gauntlet maybe?) And a pistol.

-------------------------------------------

Anyway Help making these 2?

The only one that serves Wall Street is the Right wingers. The left has always been about the commoner, and common interests, like clean water, air, food that isn't genetically modified, laws and regulations to protect people from huge corporate businesses. (For the record the Right wing WANTS laise faire, caveat emptor, and Capitalism, the left wants a strong and fluid central government that can move and protect people as problems occur.)

If Gore won:

9/11 still happens but only the first plane makes it to the tower, the rest are shot down. Republicans cry foul.

Osama bin Laden is dead 12/11

Government moves to protect Napster and file sharing sites from RIAA bs. (at least I'd hope)

Cars made before 1985' have to under go a modification to limit their emissions. (car enthusiasts cry foul.)

North Korea is choked into collapse after multi nation deal with China, S.Korea, and Russia. North Korea is carved up and turned into an international trade center, like a nation sized Hong Kong.

Koch Brothers and their companies go out of business saving lives of millions

Monsanto goes too.

Because of fair business regulations and a fair pay act combined with a ban on price increases the stock market doesn't collapse. Avg income for a family of 4 goes to 85,000K a year, almost double over the minimum needed.

Because of regulations and government lookouts, changes are made to bring United States health care to mirror Germanys.

United States becomes a nation in the top tens for health care, ease of living, environment, and safety.

Next gen fighters like the F-22 never see the light of day saving billions. Soldiers get power armor instead, from the massive reinvestment into protecting ground troops.

Astronauts land on Mars by 2008

John Kerry is elected after Gore's 2 term an though most of the nation considers him the war hero he really is, a small contingent of Republicans are found out, trying to make up stuff to defame him and are all laughed off by the media.

Fox News folds. Cartoon Network buys rights to the Simpsons, and Firefly goes to Sci-Fi where it has an 8 season run and 3 spin offs.

During this time Barack Obama takes the reins of the United Nations, and announces the groundwork to a one world nation.

In 2014 a stupid rancher has all his cattle taken because he is an ignorant fool. No one comes to his aid, and he has to pay his fines like he should.

Has anyone ran the campaign as Choral being behind it all? Or personally I was thinking of keeping the name Nyrissa and having her be a daughter or descendent, making plans to create the kingdom in the bottle thing, not as much directly evil, but as a way to isolate and eventually control and 'nurture' a nation she could then unleash when the time is right.

In my home group, my hatred of 3.0/3.5/pathfinder/4e humans is a well documented fact. I understand the desire of a flexible race, I understand many people prefer humans. I just feel that humans have been designed to be a tad to flexible. Floating stat adjustment, bonus feat, bonus skill point. They can be pretty much whatever a person wants. Also the most hated statement in all RPGs for me is "Guess I'll go human for that bonus feat."

People have their preferences, and that's fine. But as a GM I'm far more lenient with the non-human races when it comes to making rules modifications to try something, including moving stat bonuses around to accommodate a player. I'd rather have a party of a Tiefling, Elf, Dwarf, Gnome and Catfolk then Four humans and the token demihuman.

Of course I've long since learned that seems to be the minority (from my experiences at least) and generally don't bring it up unless asked. Or threads like this.

Yeah I'm a major, major, major hater of humans in rpgs and most fantasy/ sci-fi books. Not the 'characters' mind you, just the overarching sense of superiority humans have over other races.

The are the 'balanced' choice but they are the boring flavorless choice.

I've said it before, I'm a human 24/7 in the real world, I'm also a very JADED human. To see the human race always having success against everything BUT other humans annoys me. And I'd rather be a catfolk. Cause catfolk are cool.

Truthfully if I could in the real world, switch my race to catfolk I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Anyways humans stink, and all the other races are cooler. Bottom line.