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I just realized you said Weapon Focus (Kukri) replaced a rogue trick, but I don't see where you gain any rogue tricks. If you meant Rogue Talents, you replaced all of them with Sharper archetype abilities. Can you justify this? If not, it looks like the build currently has 2 illegal feats (Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization)
Frankly It's one of the rules discussions that I find trouble giving any effort defending as it is so blatantly not worth time showing it any credence. I think it's totally fine for you to feel that way. My opinion is: who cares if a rule is worth defending? I only care if it's correct or not. And the great thing about RAW is, we can always answer that question with a yes, no, or "the answer is undefined" (e.g. when it references something that doesn't exist) I love when we find things that are horribly broken and let us do silly things, like the psionic sandwich, or Pun Pun. Theoretical optimization is its own reward for me, regardless of it's ability to be used in a game - and I suspect the people who post builds here feel similarly. In fact, many theoretical builds should not be used in a game, even though they're completely rules-legal, because they are so unbalancing. But limiting ourselves to things allowed at a game table is practical optimization, not theoretical optimization (and also impossible in the abstract, because different tables have different rules). And while PO is a fine thing, my understanding is that it's not a limit for this thread.
I don't know if the Pathfinder Dev team enjoys finding dysfunctional rules as much as some of us, but there are quite a lot in Pathfinder. Can we get errata for the Pathfinder-related problems in the following thread?
Of course not. They're free.
Also, while throwing it is a free action, you're still limited by how many attacks you get, that's been clarified for sure. I'm interested in this. Would you please provide a source for this ruling? Normally, attacks are limited by the rules for BAB and Full-round actions, or standard actions (for single attacks). But in the absence of errata specifically for throwing shields, they say you attack as a free action, and you have arbitrarily many free actions in a round (in theory, which is what matters here). But the rules for Full attacks say "If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks." So taking this exactly as written, it seems you can make arbitrarily many attacks (because they're free action attacks), but you have to use a full-round action to make all of them. There's no limit on how many attacks you can make as a full-round action though, because these aren't attacks derived from high BAB.
I find this thread useful when rules are kept in the defendable realm, and entirely useless when blantanly deviating from the rules by purposefully reading a rule incorrectly. I agree 100%. Please note that I didn't quote your reply to me, but to someone else. You weren't answering a question he asked, just discouraging him from following a line of honest inquiry. Any post along the lines of "you won't be welcome at my gaming table if you try this", in my opinion, should not be here, in the thread where we're trying to optimize characters to their theoretical limits within the rules. My hope is that at this point, we can go back to talking about how the rules work, and not whether a given GM would allow them. On a completely separate note, it seems to me the rule in question here isn't blatantly deviating from the rules, because it literally says in the description "attack as a free action." I've heard there's no such thing as RAW, because we all interpret things differently, but I can't imagine reading that as anything other than "you can attack with this as a free action" without twisting the meaning of words beyond usefulness.
That is how you make your spot at a table no longer welcome. This is the kind of statement I don't like to see in this thread. It's my fault this conversation got started, so I apologize to everyone for asking an off-topic question. Now please stop posting things like this here. This is, as Scott said, a theorycrafting thread. Quentin Coldwater, by the same token, please post any errata you find (and a link to the source), because that's important to know. But please don't post changes you would make at your table. Other gamers' problems are our opportunities here in the DPR thread.
This build looks fantastic. Does it have to be a grippli though? I can't tell what part of the build requires it. Also for what it's worth, my DPR calculator puts the rage + SA damage at 125.9 - are you sure it's only 109? Also, this build:
But the highest DPR I got to was with a Humanoid. Just use a Quickdraw Throwing Shield. Take the Quickdraw Feat. Acquire a Blinkback Belt. Throwing Shields are thrown as a Free Action. The Blinkback Belts instantly teleport your weapon back to your belt, and since it's a Quickdraw Shield, and you have the Quickdraw Feat, you can re-draw it as a Free Action. That means all this is done with Free Actions, and the theoretical DPR of this character is infinite. This build is fantastic, and I'm thrilled you found this interaction. I wonder what the local PFS GMs would say to this?
Excuse me, 4,000 for a cracked pale green ioun stone
This build is illegal. The gold allowed for this contest is 62k, and you have 69,866 in listed equipment, plus 28,000 for a pale green prism ioun stone whose bonus you added without adding in the cost of the equipment. I'm a little salty because I thought the build looked awesome and wanted to play it before counting the cost of the equipment.
I'm happily surprised this is still active! To make damage calculations easier for myself and everyone else, I put together a DPR calculator. It uses the formulas from this thread's OP, so all you have to do is input your to-hit, average damage, crit range, etc. You can find the DPR Calculator here To make your own, editable copy, open the link in Google docs and click "File" -> "Make a copy..." For the DPR calculations in this thread, you'll also want to edit "Avg. Target AC" to 24. Don't worry about overwriting code - you can always make another copy. You can also post comments on the original, so please let me know if something needs tuning.
Part 4 starts off with the assumption that the PCs are on their way, but I can't see anything before that that would tell them they should check it out.
Here's the relevant text from the SRD:
A pinned creature is tightly bound and can take few actions. A pinned creature cannot move and is denied its Dexterity bonus. A pinned character also takes an additional –4 penalty to his Armor Class. A pinned creature is limited in the actions that it can take. A pinned creature can always attempt to free itself, usually through a combat maneuver check or Escape Artist check. A pinned creature can take verbal and mental actions, but cannot cast any spells that require a somatic or material component. The grappled condition makes it clear you can attack your grappler at -2 to-hit. But the pinned condition removes that restriction, and specifically says it doesn't stack with the grappled condition. It makes no other reference to attacking. At first I thought "creature cannot move" prevented attacking, but 3 things contradict that:
It seems a pinned creature can attack its grappler, but it's really odd that a grappled creature takes -2 to hit and a pinned creature doesn't.
Diplomacy (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/diplomacy.html) lists 5 attitudes: helpful, friendly, indifferent, unhelpful, and hostile. But it never defines those attitudes, and neither does the Adventure Path I'm using tell me the NPCs' starting attitudes. So I have no idea what to use as the skill DC for my players' diplomacy checks. Can anyone clear this up? Another game system defined the attitudes like this:
Are they supposed to be similar for Pathfinder?
Thanks for giving me some idea of what's to come. But does no one know a definite answer? Are there any designers who worked on it and can speak to the original intent?
The book very nicely gives me the XP award for each monster, but not the treasure awards. This has come up before in another post, but I found the replies to that post unhelpful because they assumed selling equipment/armor for full price, counted consumables, assumed PCs in a campaign should only get around their WBL with those things, and in some cases just said "don't worry about it", which didn't answer my questions. In our group, there are 5 PCs who blew through the first 2 encounters basically at once, and now I'm trying to figure out how much gp to award. If I look at the first 2 encounters in Burnt Offerings, I see:
Together, they give 260 XP, and that's 20% of the way to level 2 (because of the fast advancement track). Part of this question is: how do I calculate the encounter CR?
a. The table for CR equivalencies tells me 3x goblins is a CR 2 encounter. (And the 2nd encounter is CR 3). b. If I use XP to calculate the CR, 3x goblins are 405 XP, just over CR 1. (And the 2nd encounter is 605 XP, just over CR 2). Thus I see 2 different scenarios for the encounters (recall RotR is on the Fast advancement):
And the treasure for a CR 3 encounter is 1200 gp, so the goblins + warchanter should have 914 gp worth of "other treasure" on them. Then I get 1,563 gp worth of other treasure, +20 from the goblin warchanter (and ignoring consumables and goblin equipment, which sells for half value at the most anyway). Dividing that among 5 PCs, each one gets about 316.6 gp worth of treasure, i.e. 31.66% of their level 2 WBL, which is probably ok (because PCs in a campaign get more than their WBL anyway). b. The treasure for a CR 1 encounter is 400 gp, so the goblins should have 249 gp worth of "other treasure" on them. And the treasure for a CR 2 encounter is 800 gp, so the goblins + warchanter should have 514 gp worth of "other treasure" on them. Then I get 763 gp worth of other treasure, +20 from the goblin warchanter (and ignoring consumables and goblin equipment, which sells for half value at the most anyway). Dividing that among 5 PCs, each one gets about 156.6 gp worth of treasure, i.e. 15.66% of their level 2 WBL, which is worse than their XP growth. c. If I award no treasure, and the PCs sell off all the equipment they find for 1/2 price, and I don't count consumables, they get 193.5 gp. That splits 5 ways for 38.7 gp per PC, which is pathetic (3.87% of their level 2 WBL). Now I haven't tried calculating gold for the rest of the encounters yet, so I don't know if they'll compensate for slow GP growth, or not. That's why I'm coming to you all and asking for your help figuring this out.
Thanks for the check on that. And thank you for sticking to RAW. You're definitely right, Minor Creation couldn't create a bunch of saffron unless there's some way it could all be a single object - and that probably couldn't be traded. Also thanks for the tip about links - I didn't know how to create links in this forum before now. On a side note, Minor Creation doesn't require the object to be something that can be crafted - it just requires a craft check if the item is complicated. And since the word RAW is in the title of this thread, I'm asking that people stop posting things off-topic, such as the argument that's starting up, or how they think a DM would rule it.
Perhaps this is a 2-parter:
2. Suppose a 7th-level wizard casts Minor Creation to create saffron. That's 7 cu. ft. of saffron for 7 hours.
*source: http://www.aqua-calc.com/page/density-table/substance/spices-coma-and-blank -saffron (if the link doesn't work, try removing spaces, because I can't seem to get them out)
I didn't think to mention this until now: I'm not telling the party what to expect, except for danger. They're going to create new characters with access to all non-3rd party source-books at level 5. In case that affects your critique. Thanks!
Intro: This is an adventure module I'm putting together for a group of level 5 PCs that want to challenge their system mastery. My questions are:
Background:
DM: A Shadow Demon disables the trap to a sewer and emerges with another summoned Shadow Demon; the summoned one uses Magic Jar on a random person and the first carries the second while the second uses the body to enter the sewer. The victim is taken via secret passage to a cleric who turns the victim into a skeleton for his god. Descriptions are for the PCs, assuming they have their own light/darkvision. No light provided anywhere in the sewer.
Background (for PCs): People are disappearing into the sewers at night. Bystanders near the entrance to the South Crook occasionally see someone walk in, but no one sees them after that. Diplomacy (gather information) or Bardic Lore check (DC 20): Onyx has been getting stolen lately.
Entrance (to the South Crook, EL 5): Spoiler:
Description: A metal gate bars the way to darkness 10’ wide by 10’ tall. It is normally locked (with a good lock, DC 30), but a patrol officer removes it for you. He says he’’ll have to lock it behind you, but will wait here and unlock it when you return. If the PCs wait for the next person to walk into the sewers, they are attacked by 2 Demon Shadows at night, initially invisible. Trap: Pit (DC 25 Perception, DC 20 Disable Device), location activated, manual reset, 10’x10’ immediately inside the gate. The pit is 20’ deep and filled 10’ high with water (targets must make DC 10 Swim checks to stay afloat, DC 20 climb check to escape), and contains a Leech Swarm. Treasure: 1,550 gp at the bottom of the pool.
The entrance leads to the sewer proper and a forked path.
Forked Path: Spoiler:
Description: After descending a flight of stairs, you reach the main sewer, and the smell is dank. The sewer is 20’ wide with 5’ platforms on either side of the water for walking on. There is no light in either direction. The water runs from left to right. Perception check:
To the left: Sewer L1
Sewer L1 (EL 4): Spoiler:
The next 30’ of sewer contain 3 consecutive Water Strider Swarms, which attack when the party gets within 30’ by moving along the water (30’ speed).
Description: Your average absurdly spacious sewer. Perception check: DC 10 to see the treasure under the water. Treasure: 1,150 gp strewn through the water.
Continue 500’ to Sewer L2
Sewer L2 (EL 5): Spoiler:
A Rust Monster and 2x Ghouls. They approach when the party comes within 60’ or they see light (200’). The rust monster goes for metal with its antenna (weapons first, then armor, then gold/misc), while the ghouls flank and attack anyone unarmored, spellcasters first.
Description: After walking awhile you reach a point where the sewer splits into many smaller sewers that become so small as to be unpassable. In the corner are some bottles of shiny liquid. Treasure: 4 potions of Cure Moderate Wounds in a corner
After this the sewer splits into many smaller sewers that become so small as to be unpassable, unless the party shrinks (they don’t go anywhere).
Sewer R1 (EL 5): Spoiler:
2x Stirge Swarms hide in the darkness for someone to approach, then attack. Any sudden movements within their line of sight makes them fly forward to attack.
Description: Your average absurdly spacious sewer. Perception check: DC 10 to see the treasure under the water. Treasure: 1,550 gp strewn through the water.
Continue 500’ to Sewer R2
Sewer R2 (EL 7): Spoiler:
A Chuul waits in the water. It approaches when the party comes within 60’ or it sees light (200’).
Description: Your average absurdly spacious sewer. Perception check: DC 10 to see the treasure under the water. Treasure: 2,600 gp strewn through the water.
Here the sewer makes a right-turn to the right, but there’s also a 5’x5’ hole in the left side of the wall with a tunnel going into the earth. Right and 300’ to Sewer R3
Sewer R3 (EL 5): Spoiler:
A pair of Shadows. They stealth up to the party by moving inside the walls with only their eyes poking out (improved cover, Perception DC 28 in normal light, 32 in dim light, +8 AC/Reflex saves). They attack from the same position. If they can’t reach opponents they emerge and attack, but in the next round attack and retreat to total cover (and repeat).
Description: Your average absurdly spacious sewer. Perception check: DC 10 to see the treasure under the water. Treasure: 1,550 gp strewn through the water.
Continuing in this direction leads to more sewers with the same contents as Sewer R3, but with half the treasure and XP for each completion of the room.
Tunnel 1 (EL 5): Spoiler:
A large Earth Elemental attacks the party as soon as the tunnel collapses. He moves inside the walls/ceiling with only his head out (improved cover, +8 AC/Reflex saves) and Power Attacking with reach. The door is 6 in. thick, and each of the keys has a 1/100 chance of unlocking it.
Description: After advancing 30’ the tunnel collapses behind you. You find yourselves in a small cylindrical cavern with a 10’ radius, 10’ high. A hewn-stone door in front of you is the only way out, but it is closed (and locked, DC 35). Tons and tons of keys litter the floor. Note: After defeating the elemental the party can try keys at their leisure. If they return to this room and lock the door, they can rest without being disturbed. Treasure: 1,550 gp strewn through the water.
Opening the door and continuing 30’ leads to Tunnel 2
Tunnel 2 (EL 5): Spoiler:
A Phase Spider. Begins with Ethereal Ambush. Phase in, hit, phase out tactics. If PCs retreat, it follows from the Ethereal plane.
Description: The door opens to a 5’x5’ tunnel that descends at a shallow pace. Treasure: 1,550 gp strewn along the ground.
Continuing forward 200’ leads to Tunnel 3
Tunnel 3 (EL 6): Spoiler:
2x Young Basilisks (gaze DC 13). On their turn they actively gaze at anyone in the room.
Room dimensions 30’ wide x 30’ long x 30’ high, with the roof over the cliff being the same height. The cliff walls extend beyond sight in both directions. The PCs are about 100’ below ground at this point. Description: The tunnel opens up into a platform. Rather than a room, you’ve reached the edge of an underground cliff. 30’ past the end of the tunnel, the ground drops away, except for a 10’-wide bridge of earth that continues on into the darkness. The room itself has walls 15’ away on each side. When the PCs enter: You notice on either side of the door in the corner of the room is a medium reptile with glowing green eyes. Treasure: 2,000 gp in 2 piles, 1000 in each corner behind a basilisk
Continuing forward 90’ leads to Bridge 1
Bridge 1 (EL 6): Spoiler:
A Seugathi, hanging on the ceiling above the bridge. Has both Detect Thoughts and Levitate active constantly (and floats 20’ above the ground). Casts Mind Fog on the bridge when the PCs pass below it. Casts Phantasmal Killer round 1 on a low-fort-looking person, then confusion until all are confused, then magic missile.
Description: The bridge is twice as big up and down as it is side-to-side, and seems sturdy. Treasure: masterwork short sword, wand of magic missile [CL 5th, (40 - used) charges]
Continuing forward 30’ leads to Bridge 2
Bridge 2 (EL 4/5): Spoiler:
Doors with Death Butterfly/Ant Swarms.
Description: The bridge splits in 3 parts, but each path leads forward. No matter which path the PCs follow, they reach a door in the wall, about 50’ away from the path to its right/left. Path 1/3. Behind the door is a Death Butterfly Swarm, a 10’ wide x 30’ long hallway, and a ladder leading up (after rising 10’ the ladder and tunnel stops).
Treasure: none behind the Death Butterflies, 1,550 gp a few inches underground (the ant swarm’s nest)
Temple Outer (EL 7): Spoiler:
A Shadow Demon.
The Shadow Demon is invisible with Shadow Blend. If unnoticed, attempts a silent Summon. Then it opens with Magic Jar (it has another jar for its summoned friend if one appears). Then attacks. Description: The ladder leads up to a 30’ x 30’ x 30’ room with an archway on the far wall, currently sealed by 2 wooden doors. Behind you is a door leading back the way you came. The door leading back connects to Forked Path via the secret door. Treasure: 2x 100 gp gems and 2,400 gp around the edges of the courtyard
The archway leads to Temple Inner
Temple Inner (EL 8): Spoiler:
1x Pugwampi Cleric 5, 2x Dire Bear Bloody Skeleton. Cleric hears fighting outside and casts pre-combat buffs + copycat power when door opens. Bears attack.
Cleric build: AC 20, HP 42 F +5/R +4/W +8 DR 2/cold iron, SR 7 Str 3, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 18, Cha 10 Feats: Quick Channel, ToughnessB, Weapon FinesseB, Extra Channeling, Improved Channeling Abilities: Variant Channeling (Rulership) 1d6+daze, DC12, 5/day, Trickery Domain (Copycat), Inevitable Domain (Command), Aura of Unluck Equips: Mithral Fullplate, Heavy Steel Shield, Wand of Infernal Healing Tactics by round: Pre-combat (in this order): Invisibility, Eagle’s Splendor, Bull’s Str on each Bear, Bless, Vision of Hell Spells left (4 0th/3+1 1st/0 2nd/1+1 3rd) 1. Channel+(Prayer/Vision of Hell as appropriate). 2. Channel+Prayer/Murderous Command 3. Channel/Command (halt) Treasure: 200gp + the Pugwumpi’s equips
Success! Extra: After the PCs defeat the cleric and his demon, he tells the group the location of his god, called Yaletur. He’s in the hills closeby...
Spoiler:
A Clockwork Soldier guards a door in a hill. It’s in standby but starts initiative if someone tries to enter the door or attack.
Description: A steampunk toy-soldier stands in front of an old stone door in the side of the hill. It isn’t moving, but has its halberd in its hand. Treasure: 2,000 gp in the soldier’s stomach
The door isn’t locked, and opens into a tunnel that goes deep underground, eventually giving way to…
Dark Space (EL 7): Spoiler: An aboleth.
Description: As you reach the end of the tunnel, you find yourself standing on a precipice, 10’ x 10’. Beyond the precipice, and in fact all around you except for the tunnel, is empty space. You can see stars, galaxies, and nebulas. It’s completely silent, until a voice speaks. “Who are you that enter my domain?” The room is actually a wide cavern, about 100’ radius, with a 10’ high ceiling. The precipice is real, but beyond that is a deep lake that immediately drops to 90’ in depth before going deeper. The Aboleth uses Mirage Arcana several tens of times a day to create the illusion in the description, including putting a dust cloud in the water for him to hide in, so at any time there are 20-30 arcanas active. He casts several tens of Veils to make himself look like a god, and communicates with Projected Images. He creates illusory creatures and moving objects with Persistent Images. When the PCs enter he’ll communicate with them to try and make them leave by lying and telling them that he’s a neutral-aligned lesser-deity of ancient knowledge, which he backs up with his old age and knowledge skills. He says the cleric was his follower but was corrupted by demons and stopped listening to him, interpreting his old commands in the most extreme and wrong way possible. If pressed, he offers to show the PCs exactly what happened, and creates a mirage arcana + persistent image show that supports his claims. If the PCs attack, the water feels like empty space (but causes slowness, suffocation, dampened sound, etc) and they have to make 20 will saves (DC 18) to realize they’re underwater.
Treasure: 2,600 gp contained in a few chests underwater.
Dunno if Man in Black still looks at this thread, but I'm interested in that barbarian question so I did some analysis. According to the average stats by CR, the average to-hit at level 10 is about 14, and average damage 16.5. Looking at a few monster entries I see 1 attack, 3 attacks, and 6 attacks, which gives a quick and lazy average of about 3 attacks per round. If your AC is 22, that's about 35 DPR. Now the calcs:
tohit 14 14 14 14 14 14 14
base damage 16.5 16.5 16.5 16.5 16.5 16.5 16.5 extra dice dam. 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 hit chance 0.65 0.7 0.75 0.8 0.85 0.9 0.95 crit chance 0.05 0.05 0.05 0.05 0.05 0.05 0.05 crit threat 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 total* 35.3925 38.115 40.8375 43.56 46.2825 49.005 51.7275 *total = DPR times 3 to account for 3 attacks, divide this by 3 for a single attack A level 10 barbarian has DR 2, so you can take 6 off each of those values, meaning if your AC is 22, you'd take about 29 DPR, whereas if it's 16 or less, you'd take about 46. Meaning an extra 17 of that 20 temp HP per round. If your DPR is over 130 (average monster HP), you come out 3 HP ahead by ignoring AC. If it's less, so that combat lasts longer than one round, you lose HP. OTOH, if your AC is 19, you take about 38 DPR, or an extra 9 of that 20 temp HP. So as long as your DPR is over 65 (2-round KO), you come out 2 HP ahead. And you'd need 21 AC for a 3-round KO to come out ahead. So I'd say it depends on your DPR, but since I can't nail down a number, I'd be okay with anyone who just says "I'm a barbarian and I'm ignoring AC."
Dat one attack per round. I love it =) I'm confused why an additional attack adds no DPR though - are you reading Vital Strike as not allowing another attack?
I've readjusted Fedwyck and Mr. Bubbles to make them contest-legal, notably:
Fedwyck the Plain
Mr. Bubbles
Spoiler:
28 (14 base + 4 level bonus + 4 Evolutions + 6 item) (36 when large)
Dex 18 (14 base + 4 level bonus) (16 when large) Con 13 (17 when large) Int 7 Wis 14 (10 base + 2 levels + 2 item) Cha 11 Both ability score increases went to Wis. Defenses Spoiler:
AC: 23 (24 see below)
CMD: 33 (37 see below) Saves: Fort +9 Reflex +9 Will +8 Feats Spoiler:
Iron Will
Power Attack Improved Natural Attack (Claw) Weapon Focus (Claw) Evolutions Spoiler:
Str +4 (4 pts)
Claws x3 (3 pts) Limbs (legs) (2 pts) Energy Attack (acid) (2 pts) Rend (2 pts) Bite (raises Str Bonus to damage) (1 pt) Improved Damage (claw) (1 pt) Pounce (1 pt) total: 16 of 16 evo points used Items Spoiler:
+1 Amulet of Mighty Fists
Belt of Giant Strength +6 Headband of Wisdom +2 Cloak of Resistance +2 Handy Haversack (on Fewyck) Math Spoiler:
As in the original post...
Fedwyck casts Evolution surge (Large) on Mr. Bubbles, I am technically breaking the rules here but I think it follows the spirit (not taking an action from the full attacker) which as a CG character is appropriate. Mr. Bubbles takes his full power attack of one bite, 6 claws, and rend.
Chance to rend = 1 - chance of 5 claw attacks missing = 1 - 0.1^5 = 0.99999
Bite: 34.765
Calculations done using the spreadsheet formula:
Total DPR: 251.04463 Value of:
@James Risner: I'd be pretty stoked if you could audit my submission! Please let me know if there are any corrections I need to make first. -You can reduce the +2 Cloak to a +1 Cloak of resistance and still have the required saves, which would also save you 3k gp and put your wealth within the required limit. -TWF requires wielding a weapon in your off-hand*. Interpret that as you will, but it means at least that you can't have "no off-hand" when TWF-ing, which would drop your damage by 3 on the second UAS.-Claws are secondary attacks since you're using a weapon (UAS)**, so you only get -3/+3 power attack for them***. -It seems to me that you're not applying the -2 for multi-attack to claws or bite and I can't see why not. If I'm calculating correctly, your to-hit looks like this: UAS: 9 BAB + 6 STR + 2 magic - 3 PA - 2 TWF = +12 Claw: 9 BAB + 6 STR + 2 magic - 3 PA - 2 secondary + 1 WF = +13 Bite: 9 BAB + 6 STR + 2 magic - 3 PA - 2 secondary = +12 * source: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Two-Weapon-Fighting
I think this is an improvement on Fedwyck the Plain and Mr. Bubbles, giving up tentacles for claws and weapon focus for power attacks (it still only has +6 will though): DPR: 201.987 Fedwyck the Plain
Mr. Bubbles Stats Spoiler:
30 (38 see below)
Dex 18 (16 see below) Con 13 (17 see below) Int 7 Wis 10 Cha 11 Defenses Spoiler:
AC: 23 (24 see below)
CMD: 33 (37 see below) Saves: Fort +9 Reflex +9 Will +6 Feats Spoiler:
Iron Will
Power Attack Improved Natural Attack (Tentacle) Improved Natural Attack (Bite) Evolutions Spoiler:
Str +4 (4 pts)
Damage Reduction 5/good (3 pts) Claws x2 (2 pts) Energy Attack (acid) (2 pts) Rend (2 pts) Bite (raises Str Bonus to damage) (1 pt) Improved Damage (bite) (1 pt) Improved Damage (claw) (1 pt) total: 16 of 16 evo points used Items Spoiler:
Amulet of Mighty Fists (vicious)
Belt of Giant Strength +6 Cloak of Resistance +2 Handy Haversack (on Fewyck) Headband of Charisma +2 (on Fedwyck) Math Spoiler: As in the last post...
Fedwyck casts Evolution surge (Large) on Mr. Bubbles, I am technically breaking the rules here but I think it follows the spirit (not taking an action from the full attacker) which as a CG character is appropriate. Mr. Bubbles takes his full power attack of one bite, and 4 claws. Bite @+18 to hit does 3d6+1d6+2d6+30, claws @+18 to hit do 2d6+1d6+2d6+20 each. ...but now with rend!
Calculations done using the formula in my previous post.
That example doesn't convince me that FAQ, and especially the FAQ that Blakmane posted, is RAW. Unless by FAQ you mean errata (where specifically called errata by Paizo), I can't find any evidence for it. Please show me the evidence if I'm mistaken. On a side note, Blakmane's post applies to spells and not Su abilities like Weird Words. I've been looking at Fedwyck the Plain and Mr. Bubbles, and I don't see how he's getting full STR to his secondary (tentacle) attacks, so it should only be 2d6+1d6+2d6+7 each. That would lower his DPR to 40.635 + 4 * 22.015 = 128.695. Also, as far as I can see Mr. Bubbles only has +6 Will (2 Base + 2 Iron Will + 2 Resistance). On another note, the formula for Google spreadsheet I posted above is wrong, because it has 24-tohit instead of 24-(tohit+1), as it should be to account for dice. The following is correct, and works for additional damage dice as well: Spoiler: tohit 1 base damage 3 extra dice dam. 1 hit chance =min(max(1-((24-(B1+1))/20), 0.05), 0.95) crit chance 0.05 crit threat 2 total =(B4*(B2+B3))+(B2*B4*B5*B6)
actually FAQ becomes RAW its only when its not done in an FAQ that its just an opinion from one developer. Please provide a citation, as I haven't seen that (and I'd like to know if I'm wrong).
This would be helpful for a game, but not this thread. While GMs may decide to use it, FAQ is not RAW, and therefore does not apply to a theory-crafting thread. In addition, SKR is well-known for misinterpreting the rules (as in, he draws a conclusion that is different from what the rules actually say), even the ones that he wrote. In the case of SA + Wierd Words, this is the RAW:
Spoiler:
Weird Words (Su): Spoiler:
At 6th level, a sound striker can start a performance as a standard action, lashing out with 1 potent sound per bard level (maximum 10), each sound affecting one target within 30 feet. These are ranged touch attacks. Each weird word deals 1d8 points of damage plus the bard’s Charisma bonus (Fortitude half ), and the bard chooses whether it deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage for each word. So SA does apply to Weird Words. All of which is not to discourage you to post here - I personally appreciate any checks on the work posted here. Please continue posting, even if it's just your doubts, because I think more often then not the doubts are well-founded.
Sorry, I messed up the calculations there and assumed keen falcata had a 15-20 crit range. Here's them redone with the proper 17-20 (or 20%) crits: Normal:
Spoiler:
tohit 14 12 7
damage 20.5 20.5 20.5 hit chance 0.5 0.4 0.15 crit chance 0.2 0.2 0.2 crit threat 3 3 3 total 16.4 13.12 4.92 = 34.44 DPR value in DPR of
Rage, etc:
Spoiler:
tohit 23 21 16 damage 32.5 32.5 32.5 hit chance 0.95 0.85 0.6 crit chance 0.2 0.2 0.2 crit threat 3 3 3 total 49.4 44.2 31.2 = 124.8 DR -a +1 to hit: 5.2
Conservative (as above): 90.56 DPR
It might not be up to high-op standards, but here's a mainly-cleric build I came up with. Note: I made him with society in mind (but using Elite array), so he has 2 traits, of which one affects the build: Heirloom Weapon, granting proficiency with the Falcata. Also, he uses a +1 Keen Falcata instead of a +2 or +3 Falcata because he doesn't have Improved Critical like most other builds but does grant his own enhancements. Bob Cross
Spoiler:
Human Barbarian 1/Cleric 9
favored class cleric (+9 HP) Stats: Str 14 + 2 racial + 2 levels + 4 enh. belt = 22 Dex 12 Con 15 Int 8 Wis 13 + 2 item = 15 Cha 10 HP 1d12+9d8+29 = 86
Class Abilities
Feats
Traits
Items
Normal:
Spoiler: = 40.8975 DPR
melee: +7 BAB + 6 STR + 1 enhancement +1 WF = +14 (-2 on secondary attacks for PA) = +14/+12/+7
damage: 1d8 + 9 STR + 1 enhancement + 6 PA = 1d8+16 copied from spreadsheet:
value in DPR of
Rage (+3/+2), Quickened Divine Favor (+3/+3), Demon Ability (+4/+4), Destruction Ability (+0/+4):
Spoiler: = 148.2 DPR
Str 26 (+8), HP +20 = 106
melee: +7 BAB + 8 STR + 4 enhancement +3 luck +1 WF = +23 (-2 on secondary attacks for PA) = +23/+21/+16 damage: 1d8 + 12 STR + 4 enhancement +3 morale +3 luck + 6 PA = 1d8+28 copied from spreadsheet:
value in DPR of
Problematically, he only gets 5 Demon/Destruction activations (and they're used up 1 per hit), and 9 rounds of rage, making the lower numbers a 1-round shot. More conservative would be using each Demon/Destruction attack once per round, which lowers the DPR to 107.54 Sources:
Spoiler:
AA = Pathfinder Companion: Adventurer’s Armory
APG = Advanced Player's Guide FG = Pathfinder Chronicles: Faction Guide By the way, if you use Google Spreadsheet like I did, you might find these useful:
Spoiler: tohit #
damage # hit chance =min(max(1-((24-B1)/20), 0.05), 0.95) crit chance # crit threat # total =B2*B3*(1+B4*B5)
(Also, the burning hands trick is not going to be great passed level 1-3. Just so you are aware...I've seen many people try it, though.) I'm aware. Unfortunately there's no way to retrain Gifted Adept, making it a dead trait, but fortunately (1) it becomes a dead trait at around the levels that being a sorcerer starts to pull its own weight, and (2) Varisian tattoo and Draconic Bloodline also apply to Searing Ray. Intensified, Energy-Substituted, Persistent and Dazing would help too, but that's a heavy feat investment along with the required Spell Focus and Spell Specialization, so it'd probably be more worthwhile to just get better spells. And thanks for the diplomacy advice y'all. I'm getting the impression that Azata-Blooded Aasimar Tattooed Sorcerer with a Thrush familiar and the Illuminator trait are good (though Silver-Tongued Human sounds better, at the expense of Glitterdust and 2 Dex), and Skill Focus: Diplomacy is of mixed usefulness. My group tends to play modules from every season, since people have lots of characters. How do the different seasons affect the usefulness of diplomacy? (I'd add that to the OP too, but it seems I can't)
I'm thinking about running an Azata-Blooded Aasimar Tattooed Sorcerer with a Thrush familiar, the Illuminator trait and Skill Focus: Diplomacy feat, but... my experience with modules is hit and miss. I've heard Season 0-1 was heavily combat-focused, and the recent seasons have moved towards plot, but I'd like to hear your opinion. If it helps, the rest of my build is looking like:
Is that what you are asking? Yes, exactly. And I didn't realize I could take Superior Summoning as my 3rd level feat after leveling up, although I now see an FAQ where it says that. Thanks again for the info guys.
I did, and it doesn't address this issue. Neither do the rules in Ultimate Campaign (which doesn't deal with Pathfinder Society).
Does that mean I can do it if I follow those rules?
My most recent cert gives my wizard 12 xp. While looking at feats to get, I found Superior Summoning. While he has Spell Focus: Conjuration (as a 1st level feat), he doesn't have Augment Summoning, so I'd like to retrain his 3rd level feat for Augment Summoning and take Superior Summoning as his 5th level feat. I can't figure out based on the rules whether I can or can't do this. Can someone clear it up for me? Thanks in advance.
From the bluff skill:
1. No. You only roll a bluff when trying to fool someone. There's no skill check to convince someone of something true. 2. Forever. 3. By RAW, it's impossible to make someone disbelieve a successful bluff. RAI, probably by showing them conflicting evidence like you suggest. 4. See 3. I would say that's not convincing evidence if I were DMing, but might improve your chances with more direct evidence.
Atarlost, you're getting trolled by TriOmegaZero. I'm pointing that out in case you want to stop.
Good point about the rings of wizardry (another point in the wizard's favor). That would take it to:
Even in theurges, Sorcerers come out worse after items:
However, oracle does get more slots than cleric at level 12, so replacing the 2 levels of Cleric with Oracle and 1 of Bloodmage with MT gives:
Total: 604 spell levels So the highest spell levels would then go to an Aasimar (with Heavenly Radiance) Specialist Thassalonian Shadowcaster Wizard 1/Oracle 2/Mystic Theurge 10/Bloodmage 4/wizard-progressing-prc 3 with 34 Int, 36 Cha, and Rings of Wizardry I-IV.
Just throwing together classes and such, I've come up with this:
Specialization - extra spell slot per level
...for a total of (10x1)+...+(12x9) = 414 spell levels
Can we do better? Well, Mystic Theurges are known for having lots of spell slots, so... Aasimar (with Heavenly Radiance) Specialist Thassalonian Shadowcaster Wizard 1/Cleric 2/Mystic Theurge 9/Bloodmage 8
Cleric spells:
...for a total of 495 spell levels
That's the best I can do with just Paizo material. Can anyone else do better? What about just getting the most 9th level spell slots?
True, but then I lose the +4 bonus to initiative.
Was this thread created to troll people? If not, then in this order:
New players, including myself when I first started, often think "this will be fun, I'll just pick stuff that sounds good and go, and even if it's not the best, I'll get stronger later." When the opposite is true: unless you plan your build out from level 1 to 20 (or whenever it ends), you'll get weaker with each passing level, because your bad choices stay with you, but enemies get stronger and stronger. Even if you're allowed to use retraining rules, it's tough to find the one effective build (and it may not be what you want to play anyway) for your desired class/race/theme/whatever, and results in starting completely over <b>a lot</b>. For me, it's just not fun to suck, especially when I've worked at it, because I want my characters to have a reputation of being great, not terrible.
I'm considering going into Bloodmage with my Elf Teleporter 4. His stats are:
Wizard:
Bloodmage:
Is there anything I'm missing? I like all the wizard class features, but I realize that getting more spells is usually the way to go (and my Thassalonian Shadowcaster friend blows me out of the water with spells/day), so I'm unsure of which path to take. Any advice would be appreciated. |
