Kenneth Cole's page

Corsage of the Captured Voice

A lot of wonderful imagery here. Personally I try to stay away from very delicate objects as magical items, simply because I feel they are too easily destroyed. That said, Neil once said I was paranoid, so...

I do like the fact that it isn't a one use item. Items like this I think should have a specific creature component in the construction.

Elegant and simple, but useful to those who excel in disguise. A bit specific use, but obviously it caught the judge's attention.

Congrats and good luck in the next round.

Ken

Pipe of Pleasant Palaver

Cool! Another Pipe :) High-Five dude!!

Seriously, though. Good job on that. I really like it. I'm sure there's something non-RPG Superstar about it, but I personally think the effects work very well for a pipe.

Ken

Yes, that is what we need!

We need a good Space Opera RPG (and supporting adventure material).

A key to "Starfinder" to me would be to limit the range of known space, and make a great deal of this game about exploring new solar systems.

I would imagine a core of maybe six or seven populated planets and only a small host of playable races. Else you get into such a variety of playable races that you get bogged down in the character creation process, or nothing seems special or unique because everything is weird.

Did anyone else play Star Frontiers?

Lyingbastard wrote:

Honestly, the best Space Opera system I've played was West End Games' Star Wars d6. It gives you the heroic, loose fantasy feel, without just being "D&D in space".

I wouldn't mind working on something sci-fi for our 3PP, but as our name indicates, we are and will be primarily a FANTASY GAMING company.

Sean
4WFG

I don't want D&D in space either, that is an RPG called Dragonstar, My idea of Starfinder is an RPG that parallels the structure of Pathfinder, but doesn't include fantasy elements such as elves, dragons, and magic in space, instead it substitutes reasonably plausible technology for magic. That is starships don't bank and roll and "scream" in space as they pass by, instead they accelerate, coast, and decelerate, as anyone who's been an average student in a high school physics class would tell you, that is how spaceships ought to behave in space, their is no "air" in space to push against, the laws of enertia are enforced. An FTL drive is indispensible though, in order to have a galactic mileu so we have to include that.

Aerotech has a great mechanical system for that. Interceptor did too. I agree that this would have to be a core part of the system.

Have you though of putting together a loaded out Handy Haversack for wealthy adventures who need to get to the action fast and don't want to bother doing all their mundane shopping?

LOL, that would be pretty cool. However, I don't think it would sell very well, so it would be a novelty and an expensive one at that :)

Nice!

Do you make any for small races?

You might also want to include daggers (possibly a hand axe for the heavy pack) While technically weapons, they are also utility tools no adventurer should be without.

Have you though of putting together a loaded out Handy Haversack for wealthy adventures who need to get to the action fast and don't want to bother doing all their mundane shopping?

Thanks Khuldar,

I was thinking about creating a "small" version while I was posting this. I will work on it :)

I considered adding a Knife, but since they're not in the book (only daggers, which really aren't as useful as knives), I didn't add it. That said, you can always add one to your own. Just takes putting it into the item description. I wouldn't even charge extra.

I like the idea, think I will put these on some cardstock. Might remove the 10 days worth of feed from the saddle.

Thanks!

I wasn't sure about the feed. 10 days was a lot of weight, but I thought in a Pathfinder campaign you may be wandering for a long time before you find a grassy field :)

ACK!!! I forgot to post this! and now there are 561 posts in front of me.

I hear ya Jason. I was watching the thread, waiting for it to unlock and it didn't before I had to leave for church. Came back and found hundreds of posts!! LOL Oh wells. :)

lots said

Thank you Helic. I agree with everything you said. For me, that's the winning scenario. As we can see, there are lots of different ways to handle it.

I've played D&D since the first red box came out, and buying magical items has never been common in anyones campaign world I played. BUT, clearly it is common in some.

It all comes back to the style of play, the GM's ideas of what is acceptable, the needs of the characters, and the magic level of the campaign world.

In the end, the GM should ask himself this,

"How many NPCs are so much higher level than the PCs in the campaign world that they sell off magical items of this caliber?"

It's a GM's decision, and the system created in Pathfinder is there to facilitate this (and to make a smooth system of magical item creation).

Game Balance requires a thorough understanding of the game system, but if you do have that level of understanding you can do whatever suits you without concern of unbalancing things. My point here is that RPGs are NOT video games. You, the GM and the players, control the game and decide what is acceptable and what isn't (organized play aside). It's all up to you.

I think we've seen from this discussion that almost everyone allows some magical items to be bought. Many limit the power level of those items. Some allow almost anything to be bought, if you have the money and can find it. Those who do the latter, though put more emphasis on controlling treasure rewards, since that will dictate the power of the game in such cases.

Thank you to everyone who responded.

Your answers have been very insightful and I appreciate just having a good discussion regarding this aspect of the game!

Ken

Yes.

And why do you make it sound (the all-caps REALLY) as if this was worse than murdering puppy dogs?

LOL

Sorry if I made it sound that way.

It really depends on the campaign world, region of the campaign world, and the style of the story you're running.

I too sell magical items, just not everything all the time.

I admit that I am surprised by how many people seem to think it is a requirement to sell magical items in order to play a Pathfinder campaign. The system is just an option, and I think there are enough posts just on the first page of this thread that shows that many GMs find it unnecessary (albeit occasionally desirable or useful) to sell magical items in shops.

Really I am just curious as to the ratio of those who do and don't.

Thanks for replying! :)

Ken

Yes. I allow the purchase of magical items as per the rules. I have found that without the items that the party tends to have a very difficult time dealing with encounters.

I'm not suggesting, of course, that you don't give out magical items. But, in my way of thinking, they should be a reward. If you plan to have your characters fight something later on that requires you have a powerful magical item, then put that magical item in as a part of the adventure before hand, or have them have to quest for it.

Just my thought.

Of course I do. I use the rules that are in the PFRPG core book for availability of magic items.

It's actually option. It's not really required.

Pathfinder is by design a high-magic game. Deal with it.

Ummm...I think you need to read the section for GMs.

Yes, but there are caveats.

Consumables (Potions, Scrolls, Wands), fairly easy to buy or commission from the local temple, mage academy, druid commune what-have-you.

Weapons, Armour, Wondrous Items, Rings, Staves, Rods: Usually the PCs tend to come across this stuff as they adventure, but occasionally they go shopping for it. Usually magic items with a +1 Bonus (or GP) can be purchased (or ordered) from most cities. Otherwise it's usually a matter of patronage in order to get other magic items commissioned, it's difficult to find a spell-caster willing to take time out of their busy schedule willing to just knock out a magic item for the PCs.

My reason for this is simple -

It makes Item Creation feats worth something (if magic items are easy to purchase, then Item Creation feats just become Feats for GP. If magic items are more difficult to purchase then they become invaluable tools for the party).

It makes my PCs invested in the world - needing to stroke an eccentric wizard's ego. Or complete a side-quest for a local druid makes for great adventure fodder. Also the occasional moral dilemma, sure the Cleric of Asmodeus is willing and able to make you a Wand of Breath of Life, but he does need you to collect on an unpaid contract... how much is it really worth to you?

Excellent points.

What i really want to know is why the NPC are not killing each other left and right for that

Light Horse = 75 gold = 20% stolen = 15 gold resale value.
Guard Dog = 25 gold = 20% stolen = 5 gold resale value.
Tent = 10 gold = 20% stolen = 2 gold resale value.
Leather armor = 10 gold = 20% stolen = 2 gold resale value.
Dagger = 2 gold = 20% stolen = 4 silver resale value.

When a Untrained Hireling only makes 1 silver per day, and a Trained Hireling makes 3 silver per day.

The only people who can make a living in gold are Casters (caster level x spell level x 10 gold) + Material component.

....

Oh well, ...... guard dog, what guard dog, i did not see any guard dog around here. . . . Chee ching $$$$$.

Interesting implications for the evil Druid.

Druid PC: GM, I cast Animal summon.
GM: A horse saunters out of the woods.
Druid PC: Ok, I take the nice horse over to the local market and sell it.

Of course, the duration is probably an issue, but still funny :)

Well you have to look at it from a perspective of about 2% of the population being adventurers, much less being of sufficient level to craft items, and then smaller still those that are spell casters, then also take into consideration that most of those made magic items aren't created with resale in mind and they're very often removed from the "economy" in a cavern/dungeon/alternate plane/monster stomach or some such due to a failed adventure.

There aren't traditionally thousands of retired adventurers looking to pawn off their possessions, or just retired adventurers as a whole.

Arguments can be made either way for it depending on the campaign setting. Some people like the idea of huge armies of magically equipped warriors and others would rather like a +1 weapon to be a rare and wonderful thing and that's not even counting all the people in between! :)

Exactly some of the things I consider.

Yah you betcha! Have since I started running games back in 2nd edition. If I didn't, I'd have players taking all the craft feats and making them at half price, so by allowing them to purchase them in large enough cities I'm keeping them from getting even more than what they can already.

Sure you could house rule the feats aren't available, but all you're doing is messing with the game balance. The designers made the game assuming an average wealth per level worth of items, by not allowing item purchases, you're either screwing your players out of treasure by giving them items they can't/won't/don't want to use, or you're picking out treasure specific for each PC, and if you're doing that, why not just let them buy what they want to begin with.

If they decide to keep an item that was handed out, they're better off than selling it and buying something else, since they have to sell it for half the market value. So while they might be able to get something that will work better for their character by buying it, they're having to use more resources in order to do it, so it balances out in the end, at least in my eyes.

Interesting.

Here's how I've always handled magical items:

I build the equipment of enemies to both suit the enemy and to do one of two things: 1) Be usable by one of the PCs, or 2) Be disdained by the PCs (that is, they would leave it where it fell unless they had some reason to want to destroy it).

I build treasure hordes (that have magic) to have a few items of lesser power that are really rather random, but also include one or two magical items that the PCs would really treasure and use.

I've had very few PCs actually give up magical items. Usually they hold on to ones they stopped using so that they can 1) hand them out to henchmen and followers, 2) award them to younger adventurers they encounter later (either as they play the character, or the new character encounters them as NPCS), 3) pass them on to their children (very very rarely gets that far into the campaign), 4) enchant them to a higher power, 5) hang them on their wall as a trophy, 5) use them for trade at some of the very few magical item shops I have, or 6) start their own business selling such items.

My favorite character I ever played was Trior Steelguard (you'll see me post as him a few times on here). He was a priest of a god of war, and he made his living as an arms dealer. He collected magical items (particularly weapons) and sold them to groups of people at war with each other. When he got higher level he started traveling through the planes to get to other campaign worlds and expand his business. :)

In my opinion, PCs should shape the campaign world. If a city doesn't have a magic shop, but a PC starts one, then it will probably thrive. Doing things like this encourages players to retire their characters, and offer services and businesses that they themselves would want their other future characters to be able to make use of.

I have two really big cities in my campaign that do sell magical items. There are multiple businesses that offer different types of items. Most are very low power, but occasionally you can find something cool. Finally, many cities and towns have peddlers of antiquities who sometimes have a magical item and don't even know it. It just takes the PCs really searching a town when they get there.

Finally, I'll say that the idea that "every item" is for sale, does seem contrived. The GP value is there for the system to work, but it isn't there to imply that PCs can just walk into Wizards'r'Us or Blessed Buy and see the item on display.

I think that's really what most of us GMs do (from what I've read here).

Thank you!

Ken

Yes.

The items that are spectacular and wondrous and interesting? You find those, hidden away in dark crevices or temples, being used by malcontents or monsters, left behind by ancient peoples. It doesn't mean that normal magic items can't be interesting.

When it comes down to it, describing the bracers of armor +1 the wizard bought as a strand of 108 prayer beads or maybe a collection of gold-stamped cat charms helps ground the magic in the game and less in the book. Besides the snazzy description I can give a cloak of resistance +1, after a long time of gaming, no one is excited or bedazzled or even struck in awe by a +1 to AC or to saves. It takes the really special stuff that you can use creatively to get people's gears turning ("You mean this gauntlet actually has screwed itself into my wrist... and I can fire my fist as a grappling hook? You mean it has a mind of its own, too? And an eye on the back of the hand I can see out of?!").

I've actually had players gush more over completely mundane items than magic items. In a recent game, for his heroism, I had the members of the Varisian community make him a sturdy trench coat with the Varisian saying for 'Good luck' (Let me live) on the back. You'd think he didn't even get full access to the city's armory as well by the amount he treasured that jacket.

But even snazzing items up with cool descriptions or minor cosmetic features can backfire. Like...
"That item's an upgrade for you-- why don't you use it?"
"Oh. You described it as a pair of rubber yellow gloves and I think that looks stupid."

EXCELLENT advice. Thank you :)

Yes but it's not like running down to Target to pick up a fancy wand. You need to go to the right places to begin with:

1) Arcane scrolls, potions, wands: wizard schools, libraries, local wizards
2) Divine scrolls, potions, wands: places of worship
3) Everything else you need to search for. The Diplomacy DC is equal to the caster level of the item. You gain a bonus equal to the Economy modifier of the settlement. You are limited to the purchase limit of the settlement. If you want to find something that would be beyond that limit, then the DC increases by +5 for every settlement size difference. So if you are in a Thorpe and are looking a Manual of Bodily Health +4, then the DC is 17 + 35 = 52. If he is looking in a Large Town then the DC is 17 + 15 = 32. This will only give him an idea of who may have the item he seeks. It doesn't mean that he will automatically get the item.

I don't have magic item shops. Just because you may have found someone with the item doesn't meant that person is willing to just cough it up for the Blue Book value. You may be able to haggle or negotiate to adjust the price. This is where role playing comes in handy but it I don't want to spend more than a few minutes shopping so I let the player speak his piece and then we do a quick Diplomacy roll to see how well you did. Usually the owner is Indifferent. If the owner is Unfriendly then the cost increases by 10%. If the owner is Hostile then the price increases by 25% or more. If the owner is Friendly, the cost is reduced by 10%. If the owner is Helpful then the cost is reduced by 25% or more.

And to me this seems like the ideal way to run it. Some items are common, some rare, and some exceptionally rare.

One of the reasons I've asked this question is because sometimes the developers make it sound like they'd expect every item to be hanging on a wall at Wizards'R'Us, or Blessed Buy.

Depends on the Campaign setting.

Dark age world, were 98% of people are poor peasant and were you have high magic but only 1-2% (PC) are casters. = No

D&D = Very's from yes to no. Never could understand how you have tons of cleric, wizards, bards, and still be stuck in the Dark ages for thousands of years at a time, with no magical advancement. = Yes or No based on the world and area.

Modern Magic = Magic is used by most, No NPC takes the commoner/warrior class, most NPC have at least one level in a caster class (cleric, bard, wizard, sorcerer, druid). Magic is used as Technology. = Yes
(magic item cost changed to Silver; except Masterwork items and Material Component cost still in Gold) = Mast Production.
<NPC wages are 10 times greater than listed in PHB>

Futuristic World = Magic and Technology are at there peak (9th level in both). Most NPC have a level in a magic class and engineering class. The best of both world is used, and combined freely. = Yes
(magic item cost changed to copper; except Masterwork items and Material Component cost still in gold) = Mast Production.
<NPC wage are still 10 time greater than listed in PHB>

....

It really just depends on the game world.

Got ya. That really makes sense. I guess I was thinking most people just run one campaign world 90% of the time.

Personally, I don't have 'ye olde magic shop' but weapons shops/blacksmiths are stocked with magical items... usually they have mostly items under +2 or less value, with a total if 15-20 objects higher... all of these items are rolled randomly before the session. They can special order a particular item if they can wait for 3D6 weeks (rerolling 1s if they are asking for anything particularly hard to find)

That's about what I do in the medium major sized cities of my campaign. I do have a couple magic shops in the really big cities.

Depends on where they are.

For example, the party of adventurers I'm running was just in Daggermark, home of both the Assassins' Guild and the Poisoners' Guild. I told them that if they wanted any alchemical substance or poison, now was the time to pick it up, because the shopkeepers would happily sell it to them, and the only problem with getting anything would be running out of stock, not something being illegal.

Later, they got into a town with a Coliseum and big business with gladiator stuff. I told them that anything related to that, including all reasonable healing magics, would be for sale with no trouble. Anything beyond that, ask.

I don't believe in every town having a magical mage-mart on every corner with infinite supplies of everything or the ability to order it with instantaneous shipping via teleport. But if a city is known for a certain good or a certain business, all the items related to that should be available there.

I like that method. Seems very logical.

Yes, that is what we need!

We need a good Space Opera RPG (and supporting adventure material).

I think PAIZO would do a great job engineering an Sci-Fi RPG. I don't think the D20 rules are the system to go with. They are just molded more respectably towards melee combat.

There are some good d20 space rpgs, but nothing that has ever caught my fancy. I think Star Wars is well done, but not original. I'd love to see something truly original.

I know they say it's not in the works, but it's something they should consider. I know I'd be looking at buying it. I trust Paizo and doubt they'd let us down.

Just my thoughts,
Ken

Yes. (Assuming they have access to a big enough city for what they want to buy, every exact thing they want may not be available instantly, etc. -- but basically, yes.)

The main problem with not (unless you try very hard to correct for it) is that scarcity of magic item choice impacts weaker characters more than stronger characters. I'd rather not kick the argument of which classes those are and why, but you can find numerous other threads about that piece of it around if you're curious.

Or, if you want to put that argument aside for a moment, it impacts characters that have a harder time crafting what they want more than characters who have an easy time crafting what they want -- and RAW, even with literally no downtime crafting still happens.

In the "big cities" seems to be a common answer. I'm curious how everyone sets thos shops up. Is there some purveyor out buying them up? Do the PCs go in and sell items? Is it a big pawn shop? Do the purveyors make the items? Are there particular shops for particular items?

I wonder how not having magical items available to buy impacts weaker characters. Could you go into that a little?

I'm curious because it would strike me to just offer more magical items as loot for success. That is, magical items have always seemed a reward system to me. Characters should earn them by either defeating the person who already carries them, or defeating the monster who defeated the person who carried them. Obviously that doesn't work for all magical items. Clothing, scrolls, and potions are the items I make available at most large cities.

Thanks!

Ken

Yes I allow my players to buy magical items according to the rules in the core book. That said I think it takes away a lot of the wonder from magical items (as do the crafting system), but the game is balanced around pc's having a certain amount of magical gear according to their level. If you remove the pc's chance of getting magical items you will upset the games balance and the pc's might not be able to handle appropriate challenges as written.

Interesting point.

That makes me wonder if the current XP/Challenge Rating system is too mechanized.

As a seasoned DM I can tell you that once you know the game well enough then you can adjust for almost any unexpected change to game balance. I've been able to put low level characters against high level monsters, simply by giving the advantage of terrain and a well placed magical item. I've also had high level characters taken captive by standard kobolds with the same sort of tricks.

I've always thought of the charts in the book as a guideline for beginning DMs and a reminder for long term DMs. Also, it makes the organized play easier.

So, the lesson from your point I think is that until you know the system well enough to be able to manage unbalancing events, don't mess with the game balance :)

I actually wrote a program to generate magical items for sale in cities, based on size/value. It's all from the Magic Item Compendium tables.

Then, I print out 'Visit 1', 'Visit 2', 'Visit 3' lists of pregenerated lists. If I think it's a city they'll visit often, I just print out a list before each game.

Then, when they reach a city and start looking around, and let it be kown they're looking for stuff, people crawl out of the woodwork offering things, shopkeepers pull out he special stuff, and they go shopping.

If they want a specific item and can't find it, they have to commission it at a large enough city, or make it themselves.

Awesome. Is that something you can share?

WOW!!!!

I never expected so many responses so quickly. Thanks everyone!! It will take some time to sort through these :)

Ken

Hello friends!

Trior Steelguard here, equiping you with all you need to face the dangers of Golorian or any world in which you may face peril! I've just finished exploring the borders of your wild lands and must say that it's clear that there are many young adventurers in need of my products.

To help you in your quests, I've stocked many shops in the border towns with my world famous* Standard Equipment Packs, or S.E.P.s for short. Whether you're a warrior, wizard, rogue or ranger, I think these bundles just right for you. I know you'll find the price reasonable, and the convenience extraordinary!!

May your God of War bless you and lead you to victory!!!

*famous in some worlds, not necessarily yours

Standard Equipment Packs
Pathfinders are often seeking to get equipped for their next big adventure, but it can take time to roam through local shops gathering all they need. The Standard Equipment Pack is the solution to this problem; a quick, cheap and easy way to buy equipment. Standard Equipment Packs are carried by many shops along the borders and are ready to go when the Pathfinder is. Buying in bulk means a small discount and you don’t have to waste time packing.

Standard Equipment Pack, Heavy
Cost 30 gp; Weight 72 lbs.
The Heavy Standard Equipment Pack comes with the following gear:
backpack (2 lbs.); bedroll (5 lbs.); bell; winter blanket (3 lbs.); 10 candles (1 lb.); map case (1/2 lb.), 5 pieces of chalk; fishhook and line; flint and steel; grappling hook (4 lbs.); hammer and pitons x10 (7 lbs.); iron pot (4 lbs), 10 days Rations (10 lbs.); silk rope (50 ft., 5 lbs.); 5 Sacks (2.5 lbs); sewing needle & thread; spade (8 lbs.); signal whistle; soap (1 lb.); 5 torches (5 lbs.); 3 waterskins (12 lbs. full); whetstone (1 lbs.).

Standard Equipment Pack, Light
Cost 25 gp; Weight 45 lbs.
The Light Standard Equipment Pack comes with the following gear:
backpack (2 lbs.); bell; winter blanket (3 lbs.); 10 candles (1 lb.); map case (1/2 lb.), 5 pieces of chalk; fishhook and line; flint and steel; iron pot (4 lbs.), 10 days Rations (10 lbs.); silk rope (50 ft., 5 lbs.); 5 sacks (2.5 lbs.); sewing needle & thread; signal whistle; soap (1 lb.); 5 torches (5 lbs.); 2 waterskins (8 lbs. full); whetstone (1 lbs.).

The Rider’s Standard Equipment Pack
Cost 45 gp; Weight 172 lbs. (saddlebags)/ 28 lbs. (backpack)
The Rider’s Standard Equipment Pack comes with the following gear:
Backpack (2 lbs) carrying:
bell; 10 candles (1 lb.); map case (1/2 lb.), 5 pieces of chalk; fishhook and line; flint and steel; hammer and 10 pitons (7 lbs.); iron pot (4 lbs.), 5 sacks (2.5 lbs.); sewing needle & thread; signal whistle; 5 torches (5 lbs.); 1 waterskin (4 lbs. full); whetstone (1 lbs.).
Riding Saddle (25 lbs.) and Saddle Bags (8 lbs.), carrying:
bedroll (5 lbs.); 2 winter blankets (6 lbs.); 10 days Feed (100 lbs.) ;
Iron pot (4 lbs.); 10 days rations (10 lbs); Rope, silk (50 ft., 5 lbs.);
spade (8 lbs.); soap (1 lb.); 2 waterskins (8 lbs. full).

Check back later as more products become available!!

Happyh hunting friends!!