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Isn't Divine Sudden Quicken a bit redundant? Tell me if I'm wrong! And IIRC the errata made it mandatory to have the metamagic feat the divine one was based on... or am I off on a tangent there? In our games, I could only divine metamagic once on a spell I cast, so no divine quickened, extended, silebt Righteous Wrath of the Faithful for me (can't remember if the silent option is pointless on there, but you get the point).
What about Neon Nightstick Nightmares? With "neon" referring to their magical Christmas tree habits, of course. It's a bit of a stretch, but I'll allow it. Shame my DM didn't. :-)
Of course, if you do that your DM will probably punch you in the face, since that's been known to be broken since, well, since about when someone first thought to do that.Divine Metamagic, for crazy CHA clerics. *ahem* Plus, 'Crazy CHA Clerics' is alliterative, whereas 'Nightstick-equipped no-Charisma Clerics' is not. I think that's important.
Of course, if you do that your DM will probably punch you in the face, since that's been known to be broken since, well, since about when someone first thought to do that.Divine Metamagic, for crazy CHA clerics. *ahem* Exactly! How many nightsticks does it take before your DM starts crying, or punching? Mine stopped at one. One nightstick was too many. At some point every 'personal only' spell gets persisted, every other spell is quickened, or extended, or whatever.
Divine Metamagic, for crazy CHA clerics. *ahem*
You can get the problem named after you :-)
In general, prestige classes that make you a "super specialist" in some area should be frowned upon, if not totally eliminated. For example, the full progression prestige classes for wizards (Incantatrix, ...) seem to trade off a few feats few consider essential (metamagic is more conveniently handled with items) for vast increases in their primary effectiveness. That is to me the basic, distilled bad prestige class. Guess who I thought of when I read that post. And would you look who pops up to protest too much: I got some ribbing for playing an Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, having to field accusations of cheese-mongering. I'm presuming here that 'field accusations' is a euphemism for 'accept the obviousness'? Although I can vouch for the benefits at higher level (See the thread 'Moltenwing Dies in One Round') from immediate action prismatic walls, I can honestly say that the campaign really required this level of power-whoring (level 18 party surviving Level 30 Word of Chaos/Blasphemy? Sheesh!). Exactly - you became uber. And it happened as soon as the PrC was yours. It was fairly sickening. And I think you reined yourself in somewhat as well... I think this agrees with the feeling of the posters on this thread. What you wanted was flavour. What you got was some crappy choices of feats, and then an almost game-breaking character. I looked at it and thought "Who wouldn't want to be one of these?" And those pre-requisites made a difference; I really felt the pain at low levels, with what effectively amounts to three wasted feats. So why do it? Look at Kaile. He could've been a straight cleric and be exactly the same to be honest. I only took the PrC because it was easy, and I felt I'd lag behind otherwise. Need not have bothered tbh - hardly ever used the abilities.
I looked at that character he was a full cleric with a two level paladin dip, he wasn't using lay on hands for anything. Well, in fairness I was using LOH quite a bit - the DM let me stack blade of heironeous levels on top of paladin levels for effective paladin level. So I got quite a bit of healing in there.* But my LOH always paled in comparison to what I was doing with channeling. * For those of you going "Eh?" round about now, the Glittering Blade is just like the Shining Blade except that instead of full BAB and 1/2 spells, he gets cleric BAB and full spells (and stacking paladin levels). Or, to put it another way, it's just like the cleric except he loses turn undead effectiveness and gains the temp weapon enhancing abilities (and stacking paladin levels). It's righteous. :-)
For the vengeance of the Lord of Valour is quick and terrible! And his servants of glory shall act twicely upon the six-second duration! And Belts of Battle shall be used, as shall Divine Quicken! Praise be to Weordmynd! /threadjack Please see my previous post as my less egotistical alter ego. Well, I do have a CHA of 33...
More flavorful and interesting items like the cloak of arachnidia end up being sold or ignored in favor of the items that are "necessary" in order to keep up with the game. And you still haven't paid for it, thief! </threadjack> Choices of magical items often end up looking stupid on the character in question as well - just to get the 'right combination' you end up with a character wearing a turban, a girdle, lace gloves, hard riding boots, a vest, glasses, fur cloak, rings, plate armour, spiked buckler, and she's a halfling fighter/thief. Does that look coherent to anyone? Personally, I've had gauntlets of ogre strength up to level 18 so I've not felt too bad. But my CHA is through the roof so maybe I shouldn't comment. Anyway, I think it all depends on the DM. They give out the magic and the money. They control the prices and availability. They put in the opponents and the obstacles. They just need experience! Which is exactly what the anti-Monty Haul thing is all about (unlimited power does not mean unlimited excitement, and there is such a thing as tense boredom).
Umm... Sportacus is Strength personified, not Con. All his routines are very short, relying on anaerobic, non-cardiovascular effort. You're more like... Ziggy (he loves his carbs and is more your height!) Assuming a Paladin with Int as a dump stat (not a great leap)... Oi! I have 6 ranks and it's cross-class for Ailsa. So there. And I'm a cleric not a paladin (2 level dip irrelevant). All hail the Lord of Valour (and impossibly high saves)!
Honestly, in my 3.5 game my players go through dungeons without looting anyone except bosses, completely disregarding the possessions of NPCs and monsters. In the name of the Valorous One! Let us put this to good use! My heralds, knights, foot soldiers, mages and cohort all need equipping! Bringing the portable hole over now...
Unless I can count the dragon, which just dropped 'dead', without taking actual hit point damage. We never found out how many it had... No you can't. It was self-inflicted. Another mauling for John last session eh? I got hurt though! Just shows that I can't just launch myself at them at this kind of level - I need at least 2-3 buffs active (I only had one and it wasn't enough). Right, well. Better do some work...
You are such a splintered personality, I don't know where to begin. Are you going to finish off this one-sided tirade of self-aggrandizement any time this century? Anyway, I really liked last session, mainly because we didn't even get involved. John's PC is hard. What are your thoughts on where to head next anyway? We need planar items aplenty I reckon. Thoughts, ideas (all this can be in character as we do have quite a lot of down-time). Best change my 'post as' then...
Quick - get the scroll of Heal Cheese out! Hang on... *cough* *splutter* *gasp* Gah! Cursed 2 level paladin dip! I'll have to use it on me then - sorry Tycho. Mind you, I think you'd need the Heal Cheese, Greater spell ;-) ...that's better! Kaile (Cleric 7/Paladin 2/Shining Blade 9) PS: just to keep it on topic, I'm sure you can use more than two classes without cheesemongering - what I use is to look at how the class interacts with other classes, and if one says 'this class loves paladins' and the other says 'this class hates paladins' then it's pretty obvious they don't work together. That way you avoid the hexblade/occult slayer absurd combo...
She's got it covered. Hopefully. She hasn't been just sat there for the past 2 rounds.
Haven't mapped it out internally and I don't have e-mail at home. Looks basically like this: TTTTTWWWWGGWWWWTTTTT
The Ws at the top is the wall with a gate in the middle (GG). The _s delinate the courtyard and the Ts show the temple itself. Plus, all those cherubs give me the creeps. Seriously, that decor freaks me out. Are they baby angels, or dead babies? No cherubs are on my walls. There is one gargoyle that looks vaguely like a human/dwarf with a look on his face like he's been buggered by the spike he's fallen on top of, but that's as whoop-dee-doo as it goes :-) Anyway, back to the plot. I think we'd better leave it at that, before we give away any spoilers. I think we've already derailed some poor guy's thread. Sorry! Quite right. Apologies from me also.
OK; maybe we are bringing you back. Don't move! <chuckle> Break Enchantment! I won't need a Fortitude save to come back then (I'm not happy with my luck at the minute). That floating balloon is going to get absolutely creamed when I get back. Ailsa is working on getting my body out of there and preventing a follow-through attack. You may wish to stay in the courtyard this turn.
See you in 2 years, for the end-game! Is that also when we're going to get that list of magic item values? :-) Not that I can use them, being a statue and all.
I'm sorry, but I was under the impression that at least 100 of them only turned up to follow your cloak around? Nope, my leadership is over 25 'au naturelle'. You can cough, splutter and go "what the...?" round about now :-) Plus, stop trying to crash the disbelief - I believe that items only release the potential within the character rather than look glittery. I can't imagine paladins and clerics following me around coz they like the look of my cloak. And I'm pretty sure you've got items that would make you crash and burn without them :-) Is that a headband you've got on there? Or have you gone for the cheesy different slot item option? :-)
Ha! Your perjury is obvious, as are your weak attempts at defamation. Heironeous rules. And you didn't even understand the subtle jibe I was making towards your munchkinism - your book learning has dulled you wizard! I specialise in fatal self-defence with extreme prejudice. No, you specialise in near-death opportunism and dithering. Extreme prejudice is my domain (War or Glory - you can pick either).
I'll let you know the next time I'm reduced to half or less shall I? Hasn't happened in 10 levels but you never know eh? And who needs somersaults, when peity grants you all the Reflex save you'll ever need? By the way, tried charming someone with your evident wit lately? Thought not. And before you fire that back at me I'm the one with scores of followers, all right? I know not these spellbooks of which you speak; I simply have a hobby of collecting a large library of bed-side reading. Such things are a mere trifle, obviously of no use to anyone else, since they have not seen fit to avail themselves of the many esoteric languages at my disposal. If you ever wish to sink a whole level's worth of skill into practicing your Ancient Suloise/Baklunish/Abyssal/Terran/Auran/Aquan, etc, I would be happy to let you share them. And a Comprehend Languages would count as any of these, you faithless fop! Once again, you mistaked yourself with someone who can hide his dishonesty! Those are no tomes of creative writing, but books of power, and can be sold as such. Hand over the cash! And I still maintain I am the least munchkin of the lot of us, since, unlike our bard, I can't use a shoddy rules loophole to set my save DCs in the 40's. Yeah well, he's not alone in that respect *cough*. Okay, well maybe not 40's, but near enough as makes no difference. See you Thursday :) Can't wait :)
I don't know about you, but in my experience NO ONE wants to play a cleric. They're crappy combatants compared to a lot of other classes, they almost never get to cast any of the spells they prepared (instead using them for healing), and generally have little variation in terms of role-playability. Anything that makes them a better option is fine by me. *ahem* This has been said by others but I must put my 2cp worth in or cut my hands off. And I need both hands sometimes... The cleric is awesome. Even at low level they can get buffs like Divine Favour, Entropic Shield, Magic Weapon, Shield of Faith (1st level), Aid, Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance (2nd level) that would more than keep up with a fighter. And at high level they can boost to almost godlike levels. And this doesn't have to come at the cost of healing - just take Leadership and make your cohort the party healer. Only kidding, what you should do is invest in healing items, or make sure you get a high wisdom for bonus spells and use your buffs wisely. Also an option is the group buffs (Elation, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Mass Conviction etc) which make you hard and help others out too. It's all good. And as far as role-playing goes, they come with a inbuilt hook. I have played several clerics of the same faith and each one was completely different due to not just his faith but the aspect of that faith the character took, and of course I gave them a personality... well, I try to - it's hard when you're trying to remember exactly what stacks with what. A cleric has the potential to be the most vibrant part of the group and can make every other character question their actions based on the approval or otherwise of the resident healer. You just have to make it real. And remember all the bonuses of course. And take 2 levels of paladin for the Divine Grace if you can (your Reflex save will be dump otherwise, and clerics don't get Cat's Grace - but they do get Shield of Warding, which is very helpful in that respect - go check it out). All this and I haven't even mentioned Divine Feats...
I'll come to your first bit last fella, if that's ok by you? At the same time, our 'warriors' are hacking away, hitting with 4 attacks per round, and easily capable of delivering 100 damage per round, yet none of the three has the benefit of a full BAB history. Umm... we have 3 attacks per round. Or at least, I do... nearly 4 though. My job seems to be to deliver them to the objective, smash the scenery up, dispel harmful spells, and identify the loot. Damaging the enemy is not a worth the attempt unless they're in my face, or as a side effect of killing themselves on my defences (Moltenwing in one round!). Well, it's not quite like that is it? You are missing out all the options of your non-combat spells that are not movement or Identify related. I can guarantee you that you've done some great stuff with Unseen Servant and Protection from Energy, for instance, and as for your combat spells, you aid the flow of battle (Force Cage) and put down covering fire (Magic Missile, Lightning Bolt, Disintegrate). You do yourself a diservice, but I know you just feel inferior because I'm so gosh-darned brilliant :-) This is not a rant against my group or campaign, but I simply cannot relate to the statements that 'iterative attacks are useless', or 'fighters cannot contribute at high level'. It better not be! I can see what you're talking about, but you are missing some points here - the reason we can cut it is precisely because we are not fighters, or single classed paladins or rangers. We have optimized (for good or ill) because we appreciate that a high level martial character with no second string will be really stuffed without having some groovy wondrous items or friendly mages/clerics who cast stuff on him. I'm okay because really I'm a cleric, and we all know clerics rock. Lia is okay because her player's husband has optimized her for this campaign specifically, and DeMargo is okay because he's got cheese coming out the wazoo. We are not standard fighters, so please don't use us as examples. Ta. Now onto your first point and my last reply.
I hope that you also appreciate that stuff like Stoneskin, Fire Shield, Displacement, Blur, Iron Body, Anti-Magic Field, Telekinesis, DR, etc. etc. all stuff up a fighter's chance of doing those 4 hits for 100 damage fairly severely. So, to paraphrase and modify your comment "A creature rated as appropriate to your fighter level is often very difficult to even hurt." Unless you're me, of course :-)
LEAST munchkin? With a bard in the party? And your dance of the seven veils stuff? And ultra-optimized skills? And demanding spell books whilst not paying for them? A stranger to the truth and no mistake. Ha!
I shall have to ensure that the faitrhful of Heironeous are made more aware of their duties to their masters and that disrespectful titles, even in jest, are to be punished. Now that I can swap out Cures to Inflicts that'll be quite easy :-) Feeling safe Tycho?
...fool the bleeding-heart Heironeans in my employ! I would be rather more wary of the Heironean to whom you will eventually answer to rather than figments of your imagination... especially seeing as I can use evil stuff without penalty... Having The Eye is cool
Yes, now cast that bloody haste spell forthwith - or are you going to horde your spells like always..? Anal-retentive so-and-so :-)
I see I must review and correct the mis-thought meandering surmises of our errant wizard. The divine inspiration granted me by the mightiest lord of righteousness made it clear that the traitorous 'ally' need not be used as a pawn and instead suffer the ignoble end such a coward deserved. That same heavenly insight guided me to the correct course of action afterwards. And... For the record it was only one illegal feat, and it wasn't illegal til errata caught it, which I missed. But +1 caster level, +1 everything, and the rest of the bonuses... Hell Yeah! I mean, Heavens Above! *Ahem* |
