This thread is funny. :D
Im going to change divine grace from charisma mod to saves to charisma mod to saves, hit/dmg and ability checks, cause pallys blow.........
wut?
From the guy that brought us this. Oh no, he's not a troll, he's just "special".
Why don't you add it to his HP, AC, CMB, CMD, and skills while your at it...
Seriously though, the paladin is fine as is.
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/7849/dontfeedthetrollky3.jpg
I give Paladins full wizard and cleric spell progressions, in addition to their spells and Paladins still suck, there's just no helping them.
I am playing Malthir in the Kingmaker AP, and he holds his own with anyone in the party. In fact since he has the best saves in the party, does the most damage against evil opponents, and can heal himself as a swift action in combat I would say he is just fine as is. You don't need to change a thing, seriously.
I give Paladins full wizard and cleric spell progressions, in addition to their spells and Paladins still suck, there's just no helping them.
And everything they touch becomes good aligned and all non good aligned characters burst into flames when the touch them. My paladins spend most of their time 'shopping'.
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I switched to a pally character when my 12 level Ftr died... and I haven't regretted it since. They really rock at high levels compared to fighters! (provided you're fighting evil enemies, which is 99% of all campaigns I've played...)
The ability to swing your pointy stick round after round without fear of well, being feared or charmed is priceless... and for all the other stuff, your will save is so high it's only a problem if you roll a 1 (my elf pally level 15 has +20 will save... my 12 level fighter had +4... EVERY fight he'd be down after a round or two... either asleep, confused, dominated, hold person'ed, or just plain f&+~ed)
If you guys say so, i haven't played one in pathfinder since i came from 3.5 but not much has changed and they sucked ass compared to the fighter before. Whats better about them?Judas,
Look closely at the rules for smite. The amount of damage, particularly against 'team evil' (evil dragons, undead, outsiders) is greatly increased, and a smite basically lasts until the foe in question goes down. So a paladin who is smiting is going to be doing comparable damage to a very favored enemy for a ranger, and a fair bit more than a fighter. That's really the huge change vs 3.5---your DPR against foes you're smiting is much higher.
That and the swift action self healing.
ALTERNATE RESPONSE:
OP I totally recommend doing those buffs, ideally you want to aim for a class that's really balanced like the lightning warrior - someone that has a lot of good abilities, but in the end isn't too strong because they can't specialize and, of course, lack a familiar
Everyone else should vote on which of these two responses is best.
Did someone seriously just say the pathfinder paladin was weak? I am at a loss at how to respond to that.
