Jockston's page

Caster killing archetype, prestige class, or feat chain for the fighter. It's been years and they still don't have an option that's worth a damn.

Aeron Solo wrote:

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It doesn't fit the theme of dead pool at all but the mechanics are really close. I like it

Jockston wrote:

My opinion would be that he is a sohei 8/ gunslinger pistolero 4. He is not "stealthy" in the least he jumps in combat screaming like a madman guns a lazing and uses katanas which a sohei can flurry with.

Actually, Sohei can't flurry with katanas without a fighter dip. They can only flurry with a weapon they have weapon training in, and Sohei only gets WT in bows, crossbows, monk weapons, polearms, spears, or thrown weapons. Heavy blades isn't on the list.

They can flurry with urumi or nodachis though.

That's right, just grab a temple sword and call it a katana.

My opinion would be that he is a sohei 8/ gunslinger pistolero 4. He is not "stealthy" in the least he jumps in combat screaming like a madman guns a lazing and uses katanas which a sohei can flurry with.

If my choices are between a class that is functional without any outside assistance and a class that requires me to write your character sheet for you, then yes I am going to recommend you use the first class. First is teaching a man to fish, second is giving a man a fish.

Though if you honestly believe a splatbook-less Fighter is extremely effective I'm pretty sure there's going to be no fixing that disconnect.

To me your arguments are stemming from a biased of the fighter, and are oblivious to the point being made.

You don't learn to drive on a nas car. You learn on an old beater. Your parents help you they don't just hand you keys and let you take your test.

The fighter is the best no book work class to learn from, assuming you don't want magic, and is a better fishing tool then a harpoon. The more crap a new player has to remember the slower combats are and the more help they will need. If that's your idea of teaching a man to fish then you missed the point of that truism.

He doesn't have Improved Iron Will because he's an inexperienced player who didn't know he should take it.

That's my point. Paladins and Rangers practically build themselves, Fighters and Barbarians have a much higher skill floor because of the wealth of options available in which many of those "options" are basically required to perform.

Are you playing elder scrolls? My first game consisted of me, a gm, and 4 other players who helped me and showed me good choices...

And as I said "CORE RULE BOOK ONLY FIGHTERS" don't have trap options as you put it. Skill cap is near zero, system mastery is near zero and effectiveness is extremely high.

Jockston wrote:

TarkXT wrote:

So I've given it a fair go and it looks really compelling if you simply go with the stamina rules on top of everything else you get something that looks pretty nice. I'll share one of the results when its done.

also, I'd never suggest a new player try a fighter.

Paladin or Ranger definitely.

This i don't understand...

A core fighter is effective at combat with no book keeping. No pet stat blocks, no lay on hands or spell lists .

Building a basic switch hitter fighter will out dps a ranger and barbarian, well pretty much every class until 10th and is more flexible in combat then any other martial.

People complain about skills but even they can be offset now at later levels. When I play with a new person I ask " do you want to cast spells, swing swords or both?"

Effective at damage, not effective at combat.

"Oops, I forgot/underestimated the need to boost my will save and now I'm under the control of the enemy wizard. Sorry guys!"

A Paladin is effective while taking zero options other than Power Attack; everything that you really need comes baked into the class. Fighters require a ton of meta knowledge to know what feats you have to pick up to be truly viable and not leave huge holes in your gameplay.

This is fallacy, they are not sitting at the table without advice or players helping them. You trying to mc my fighter friend well I hit the group with pro evil mass before the fight oh and he has improved iron will so his will is better then everyone else's in the group technically.

*edit* don't want people dwelling on corner cases, derailing the topic as usual

So"with the exception of the paladin."

So I've given it a fair go and it looks really compelling if you simply go with the stamina rules on top of everything else you get something that looks pretty nice. I'll share one of the results when its done.

also, I'd never suggest a new player try a fighter.

Paladin or Ranger definitely.

This i don't understand...

A core fighter is effective at combat with no book keeping. No pet stat blocks, no lay on hands or spell lists .

Building a basic switch hitter fighter will out dps a ranger and barbarian, well pretty much every class until 10th and is more flexible in combat then any other martial.

People complain about skills but even they can be offset now at later levels. When I play with a new person I ask " do you want to cast spells, swing swords or both?"

Caster= sorcerer. Straight forward spell caster almost no book keeping
Sword swinger= switch hitter fighter, no book keeping
Gish= paladin, smallest book keeping and generally powerful.

At any time they should be able to try a new class if they don't like it.

Role play doesn't require rolls, if they want to make rolls out of combat they shouldn't pick fighter.

Fighter is my favorite class by far, but then again I'm one of those "pour over 30,000 feats and make amazing tactical builds. I also don't GAF about dpr.

I've never once felt useless in a RP session on my fighters, I involve myself in conversations, and assist in rolls that are essential to group function.

When the party fighter pre occupies and locks down BBEG's without taking much if any hp damage while also whittling him to death, solidifies the role of that fighter as "powerful".

Alex Trebek's Stunt Double wrote:

This doesn't make any sense. How can a 12th level Monk have only 10AC?

Please, give me more information because this doesn't convince me paper mages aren't fragile, this only makes me think there is something you aren't telling me.

Your story does not check out.

That's what the player told me. Being that we were in the middle of a special, I didn't take the time to audit his character. Suffice to say that we ran it that way, that anything over 10 hit him, and I didn't manage to kill him. Imagine putting that on a wizard, who can have more defenses.

Ring of blink, lightning stance, and potion of mirrior image would make him near invulnerable against melee

Jockston wrote:

the thing is that instead of "you hit level 12 you can cast wish now" it would give black and white rules for a gm to decide how to allocate spells. Then it's not house ruling now it's an actual rule that you don't just know it.

If you go is like " pow you know it" then that's a house rule now not a core mechanic.

I think we all know that if something is a rule of the game then it's not a houserule.... That doesn't change the fact that it's just annoying then and forces the game to turn into "Instead of our normal plots we are searching for spells for our caster."

So your down time is spent acquiring spells instead of pulling the out of your arse? Doesn't seem like much of a down side to me.

Jockston wrote:

I did not say "get a scroll" it would affect all spell casters, including 1-6 hybrid casters.

Don't have a spell book? Then You need to unlock via ritual.

Oh, that's just annoying then and forces the game to turn into "Instead of our normal plots we are searching for spells for our caster."

the thing is that instead of "you hit level 12 you can cast wish now" it would give black and white rules for a gm to decide how to allocate spells. it's not house ruling now it's an actual rule that you don't just know the spell.

If your gm is like " pow you know it" then that's a house rule now not a core mechanic.

I'm on a phone and auto-correct is killin me

Jockston wrote:

If you want to fix the disparity then all that needs doing is making spell acquisition more difficult instead of automatic.

"From spell levels 5+ you can only achieve spells by hunting them down and adding them to your book. The fm decides how this is achieved."

Add that line, or something similar in the crb, the disparity is nullified. Now having access to any spell is not guaranteed.

*Cleric, sorcerer, oracle, arcanist, druid, summoner, and psychic start laughing*

I did not say "get a scroll" it would affect all spell casters, including 1-6 hybrid casters.

Don't have a spell book? Then You need to unlock via ritual.

If you want to fix the disparity then all that needs doing is making spell acquisition more difficult instead of automatic.

"From spell levels 5+ you can only achieve spells by hunting them down and adding them to your book. The fm decides how this is achieved."

Add that line, or something similar in the crb, the disparity is nullified. Now having access to any spell is not guaranteed.

Not that I know of.

Scanning the Feats list, I can only find these two, both with limited applicability:

Paired Opportunist, but you need a friend to take the feat too.

Counter Reflexes negates their AC bonus if they have Mobility (which is rare so this is almost certainly a "trap" feat)

I didn't even see those when I was looking. Thanks for your help. I was hopeing for a feat like +4 to hit on aoo's. Oh well

Wait don't fighters get to use advanced training to use teamwork feats as if your allies have the feats.

Does Paizo have any feats that increase the "to hit" of aoo (attacks of opportunity)?

I can't remember if it was only 3.5 that had it or if Paizo also has it.

Enemy casts shield, thread over. Not op in the least.

I like the idea of what you're doing, but it won't be quite as good as youay think. What I mean is that mobs will pass by after they miss once or twice. A better way to think of tanking in this game I'd controlling npcs, that's the best way to prevent damage in this game.

Feats like pin down, step up, and stand still will be a great way to tank beyond just high ac.

Just remember that evil does not mean psychotic murder hobo, it mean you either kill for enjoyment or convievance.

So a lawful evil person isn't necessarily a "bad person" but just that killing people who oppose you is justified in your mind.

Boba fett is one of the few non force users who can kill or capture force users with perfect success... According to the books. How he died to Han Solo just proves how badass solo is.

But for the op, any build would come together too late in the life cycle. I would suggest you focus on skills, and gun use with letting flavor and RP dictate your character. Don't worry about getting the mechanics.

I think my dwarven invulnerable rager 18/ unbreakable fighter is the toughest I've been able to make. 136 hp and dr 6 at 7th level with no magic effects. Average hp per level and a base 18 con score. It really was a fun character in PDA, but a half Orc with tenacious survivor in a home game is just about the toughest character in the game.

I love tenacious survivor. Powerhouse tank that can still bring the pain, I wish It was PFS legal.