Infinite time stop! Infinite shapechange! Infinite true strike! Infinite blink! Infinite everything!


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Kthulhu wrote:

Wow, really Paizo? Really?!?

Paizo hates non-spellcasters, CONFIRMED.

I sympathize. Muggles need to learn their place.

Silver Crusade

Epic Meepo wrote:

Wouldn't using time stop with this ring technically slow you down?

Time stop without the ring:
Spell duration: 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time;
Spell effect: You can perform 1d4+1 rounds worth of actions.

Time stop with the ring:
Spell duration: 24 hours (of apparent time?);
Spell effect: You can perform 1d4+1 rounds worth of actions.

Either way, you only get 1d4+1 rounds worth of actions. In the second case, those actions just take a full 24 hours to complete.

Yup that is certainly the best solution... that or changing time stop to instant duration with an effect of 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time.


Abandoned Arts wrote:

Several of the suggestions and combinations presented here straddle the line of "broken," however channel vigor is a 3.5-era spell designed for use with Dungeons & Dragons, and predates the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. I don't think it's fair to consider D&D 3.5 material in tandem with the ring.

As for time stop, using time stop and the ring in tandem won't enable you to rest, because time stop doesn't actually stop or even slow the passage of time - it simply makes you move quickly, and changes your perceptions regarding the passage of time. If the duration of time stop were changed to "24 hours," then the spell would cause you to take 24 apparent hours to experience 1 actual round. There are ten rounds in a minute, and a hundred rounds in an hour. In order to rest for 8 actual hours (plus 1 hour for preparing spells), you'd have to rest for nine 900 days of apparent time.

A side note: If I were running a game wherein a PC used the ring in this way, these guys would be after you in droves, and so would these guys. And if I were your GM, I'd hit you with this little gem from the GameMaster's Guide's "insanity rules," as well:

The GameMaster's Guide wrote:
At your option, a creature can run the risk of going insane under extremely unusual situations, even when his mental ability scores are unharmed.

Obviously, there are some issues with the ring, but the "infinite spells, resting mid-combat" tactic doesn't work as cleanly as some seem to fear that it does.

Daron Woodson
Abandoned Arts

+ 12 that is a good idea!

Silver Crusade

Cheapy wrote:
Quote:

This band of braided copper wires throbs ever so slightly in

harmony with its wearer’s heartbeat. Whenever the wearer
of this ring casts a spell with a range of personal, that spell
remains in effect for 24 hours or until the wearer casts another
spell with a range of personal (whichever comes first). Spells
that usually only affect one specific action (such as making a
particular attack) are expended after that action. This does not
reduce the duration of spells that normally last longer than
24 hours. Casting a new spell does not eliminate a previous
spell if its normal duration is such that it would still be in
effect. However, attempts to dispel or otherwise eliminate a
spell kept active by the ring work normally and, if successful,
remove the spell from the ring, causing the wearer to lose all
benefits from that spell.

I've skimmed the thread and didn't notice anybody pointing out the following. My apologies if I missed something.

Its not at all clear what happens if the ring is transferred to somebody else or taken off. It certainly seems that the wearer can take the ring off, cast more personal spells, and then put it back on.

Or cast Time Stop (or some other hosey spell) and then give the ring to his barbarian friend. Barbarian with 24 hour time stop.

Or maybe the whole party gets to use it. Person A casts whatever spell he wants. He then hands it off to Person B. It isn't clear what happens to person A when person B casts a personal spell. Maybe his 24 hour spell remains active?

Liberty's Edge

wraithstrike wrote:


Asking your buddy to stop action X is just a sign that something is wrong, not a good reason to excuse is.

Fair point. Still with the right players and responsible DM not something that game breaking imo.


But also, not really a useful part of a book you've purchased either.


Glutton wrote:
I was reading that list of personal spells, hit Legend Lore , immediately got a headache and went to bed, gnight.

What use would a 24 hour long LL be? The casting time is 10 minutes to 10 days and it bring you info about ONE thing.

Using this item for LL would do nothing at all.


LL would probably fall under the true strike exception.


Didn't they fix 3.5 time stop abuse by errata switching it to an instant spell with 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time? I find it bizarre that the developers didn't simply copy the fix along with the spell... As written this seems broken. ~sigh~

It isn't overkill for most spells however... maybe they will errata this soon?


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Hmmm, alchemists can already get permanent Greater Invisibility with their Eternal Potion discovery. You just have to cheat and have a summoner make the potion for you so that it is a low enough Spell Level, lol.

Though, this can't happen until level 16 in this case.

Shadow Lodge

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This is a ridiculously broken item, under ANY circumstances.


Wow. And I was just reading on another forum that one defense of PF making things more balanced (instead of the hundreds of ways they've made 3E less balanced) was that by printing a feat called Persistent Spell with a completely different (albeit still broken, just less so) function, PF had effectively banned the 3E Persistent Spell feat.

So much for that!


StreamOfTheSky: Probably easier to limit a magic item than it would be the feat. Perhaps the outcry against this magic item will be enough that they do something about it. Then again, that could be wishful thinking. LOL

- Gauss


Feat's not much harder. I banned 3E Persistent Spell. Done. Pretty simple.

Any effect that says, "I don't care what your duration was, it's 24 hours now. And it's the same cost for every spell, whether it lasts 1 round or hour/level normally" is just plainly broken, and I weep for anyone who cannot comprehend that.


Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
StreamOfTheSky wrote:
I weep for anyone who cannot comprehend that.

Comprehend what?

;P


StreamOfTheSky: I was meaning that it is easier for the developers to rewrite it and limit it if it is a magic item. There are more elements to be able to limit it. Cost, wording, etc.

Feats pretty much just have the wording.

- Gauss

Silver Crusade

Aranna wrote:

Didn't they fix 3.5 time stop abuse by errata switching it to an instant spell with 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time? I find it bizarre that the developers didn't simply copy the fix along with the spell... As written this seems broken. ~sigh~

It isn't overkill for most spells however... maybe they will errata this soon?

I remember the same, no idea why they didn't change it.


Cheapy wrote:

I'd wager that every single person who knew who RD was and saw the thread title and then who the poster was immediately thought "Oh man, what crazy rules exploit did RavingDork find this time. There's no way that would be in the game."

And then we all got here and found out that it wasn't an exploit. It was 99% the rules as written and intended.

This exactly describes my interaction with this thread.


VRMH wrote:

This ring could backfire horribly, for instance when casting Fire Sneeze.

"Once you cast this spell, you must sneeze each round as a standard action—you can take no other standard action as long as this spell is in effect, nor can you take full-round actions."

It is the ultimate goblin item combo! XD


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber
StreamOfTheSky wrote:

Feat's not much harder. I banned 3E Persistent Spell. Done. Pretty simple.

Any effect that says, "I don't care what your duration was, it's 24 hours now. And it's the same cost for every spell, whether it lasts 1 round or hour/level normally" is just plainly broken, and I weep for anyone who cannot comprehend that.

It's fine really. We're happy in our ignorance.


Heaven's Agent wrote:
VRMH wrote:

This ring could backfire horribly, for instance when casting Fire Sneeze.

"Once you cast this spell, you must sneeze each round as a standard action—you can take no other standard action as long as this spell is in effect, nor can you take full-round actions."
It is the ultimate goblin item combo! XD

You just gave me an idea for a cursed item. XD

Cursed ring of fire sneezing: chance to make if you fail the crafting check for the ring of continuation. The wearer is under a fire sneeze spell for as long as he wears the ring, follows normal rules for removing cursed items. XD

Shadow Lodge

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Infinite shenanigans!


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FiddlersGreen wrote:
Heaven's Agent wrote:
VRMH wrote:

This ring could backfire horribly, for instance when casting Fire Sneeze.

"Once you cast this spell, you must sneeze each round as a standard action—you can take no other standard action as long as this spell is in effect, nor can you take full-round actions."
It is the ultimate goblin item combo! XD

You just gave me an idea for a cursed item. XD

Cursed ring of fire sneezing: chance to make if you fail the crafting check for the ring of continuation. The wearer is under a fire sneeze spell for as long as he wears the ring, follows normal rules for removing cursed items. XD

And the goblin wearing the ring shall also wield (though he can only take AoOs with it) the Spear of Aspar-agus: a green spear with an odd-looking tip comprised of a bulb of overlapping scale-like protrusions that taper to a tip. Grants a +4 circumstance bonus on intimidate checks against intelligent carnivores and a +2 circumstance bonus on diplomacy checks to change the disposition of any herbivore. Herbivores ignore hardness when attempting to sunder the Spear of Aspar-agus.


Steve Geddes wrote:
StreamOfTheSky wrote:

Feat's not much harder. I banned 3E Persistent Spell. Done. Pretty simple.

Any effect that says, "I don't care what your duration was, it's 24 hours now. And it's the same cost for every spell, whether it lasts 1 round or hour/level normally" is just plainly broken, and I weep for anyone who cannot comprehend that.

It's fine really. We're happy in our ignorance.

No, you're not. You just don't know it.


It's easy enough to just ban or nerf this ring in your home game; so I don't think it breaks all of Pathfinder. I would guess it is supposed to be limited to 3rd level spells or something but that maybe got missed in the final text.

However, the way it is now, this ring is way more powerful and useful than many artifacts. I would rather have this ring than a Staff of the Magi (limited charges), or a Sphere of Annihilation (unpredictable control), or a Book of Infinite Spells (limited pages, spell failure chance).

This ring should be an artifact not a magic item. As an artifact it would be pretty cool as a magic item it is way too powerful.


cibet44 wrote:

It's easy enough to just ban or nerf this ring in your home game; so I don't think it breaks all of Pathfinder. I would guess it is supposed to be limited to 3rd level spells or something but that maybe got missed in the final text.

However, the way it is now, this ring is way more powerful and useful than many artifacts. I would rather have this ring than a Staff of the Magi (limited charges), or a Sphere of Annihilation (unpredictable control), or a Book of Infinite Spells (limited pages, spell failure chance).

This ring should be an artifact not a magic item. As an artifact it would be pretty cool as a magic item it is way too powerful.

Thinking of having my character take forge ring just for this. XD


Matrixryu wrote:

Actually yea, as long as the wizard is immortal and very patient, he could theoretically do this as many times as he wants in a single day! He'll forever have infinite spells D:

Edit: Yea, at the very least I would ban this from being used with Time Stop for the sake of sanity, lol. I'm not sure that the other potential combos are really that overpowered.

You could make a Clock Stoppers campaign using the ring and Time Stop, except you would have to tweak it so that you could go in and out of Time Stop at will.

Grand Lodge

Are wrote:
Epic Meepo wrote:
Either way, you only get 1d4+1 rounds worth of actions. In the second case, those actions just take a full 24 hours to complete.

I like that interpretation :)

I like that interpretation much better. I'm making that raw in my group.


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber
ImperatorK wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
StreamOfTheSky wrote:

Feat's not much harder. I banned 3E Persistent Spell. Done. Pretty simple.

Any effect that says, "I don't care what your duration was, it's 24 hours now. And it's the same cost for every spell, whether it lasts 1 round or hour/level normally" is just plainly broken, and I weep for anyone who cannot comprehend that.

It's fine really. We're happy in our ignorance.
No, you're not. You just don't know it.

I struggle to picture myself understanding all the rules of PF. I cant think of much which would reduce my enjoyment of the game more than if I suddenly started learning how it's supposed to work.


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Cheapy wrote:

I'd wager that every single person who knew who RD was and saw the thread title and then who the poster was immediately thought "Oh man, what crazy rules exploit did RavingDork find this time. There's no way that would be in the game."

And then we all got here and found out that it wasn't an exploit. It was 99% the rules as written and intended.

Long time lurker, first time poster. Love the show.

And that's exactly what I thought Cheapy.


My top powergamer's first thought was to get this for his paladin and use it on Deadly Juggernaut. 24 hours to get as many +1 luck bonuses to hit and damage as possible, cast right before going into a big dungeon crawl.


^That spell has a cap though


deuxhero wrote:
^That spell has a cap though

Still, a 24-hr duration +5 luck bonus to melee attack rolls, melee weapon damage rolls, Strength checks, and Strength-based skill checks is nothing to laugh at. The DR 10/— is simply icing on the cake.


still having a +5 to hit and damage and dr 10/- on for 22 hours wouldn't be bad.


Ride the lighting could get bad with the right bloodlines and feats if you wanted to go for something pretty bad 10d6 in a 120ftline every round.

Liberty's Edge

Wow the meds I'm on for my throat infection this time around really knocked me out mentally. Been asking for the price of the ring and the op had posted it in his first post.

56000 gp is not something your going to see until high levels imo not before 15th level. I doubt a group is going to say that much to get one ring for one member of the group. At that level imo your supposed to have magic items that are powerful imo. While I do think the item should not be given to every group. I hardly see it as destroying the game let alone campaigns. I do admit that is not shard by everyone else.

Grand Lodge

But the 24 hour duration persistent spell may still be dispelled by dispel magic or greater dispel magic, right? From my understanding of combat post 12th level, each side needs someone throwing Dispels every couple of rounds to stop the sweeper status, to borrow a term from Pokemon.

Still really scratching my head at how an item like this ended up in one of Paizo's books. As an artifact, maybe. As a 56,000gp ring, no way.


Memorax: You should not take meds before posting. Isn't that printed on the label as one of the hazards?

Anyhow, with Craft Ring (or Arcane Bond: Ring) that becomes 28,000gp which is quite achievable for a level 10 or 11 character. I will say that as a GM I do not want my table's wizard to have a ring which allows him to do any of the things this ring does.

- Gauss

Liberty's Edge

Gauss wrote:

Memorax: You should not take meds before posting. Isn't that printed on the label as one of the hazards?

- Gauss

Considering the luciidity of my posts I think I did pretty good. Somehow missed the price of the item but imo managedto keep it toghter.

If KG is corrected and you can dispel the enchantment in the ring imo it's not as powerful as it's made it out to be. Most if not all (90%) of gaming groups ahve a wizard and usual carry both dispel spells. So once the spell is removed your wearing a 56K dud until you fill it up again. Now if it can't be dispelled than yes imo it should be a artiifact.


Heck with the 5% off crafting cost trait is doable by around level 8 if you horde your money. (or use said trait to make 5% back on cheaply made items like scrolls or potions that you sell if given enough down time. Or any other magical money making scheme)

Liberty's Edge

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Because I was anti-Antagonize, I have to be anti-this for consistency.


Blackwand 17 wrote:
Cheapy wrote:

I'd wager that every single person who knew who RD was and saw the thread title and then who the poster was immediately thought "Oh man, what crazy rules exploit did RavingDork find this time. There's no way that would be in the game."

And then we all got here and found out that it wasn't an exploit. It was 99% the rules as written and intended.

Long time lurker, first time poster. Love the show.

And that's exactly what I thought Cheapy.

But actually it wasn't. Unless you go by a rather strained and certainly not RAI reading of Timestop, the item doesn't work like that for the biggest loophole.

Greater Invis? Sure. But that's hardly gamebreaking.


Gauss wrote:
Memorax: You should not take meds before posting. Isn't that printed on the label as one of the hazards?

I think most labels now recommend posting on internet message boards while medicated. Supposed to be therapeutic or something. It's right up there with playing MMORPGs while drunk. And Drunk Science, for that matter. (Avengers Remix)


Sorry for being dense, but if they just limited the level of the spell tht could be used wouldn't that nerf this item down to a reasonable level?


danielc: Not dense at all. Many people are recommending just that sort of nerf. Then the race will be on to find 'the perfect spell' to stick into it. I dunno about you but there are a number of low level spells that if made permanent could be rather...powerful. :)

- Gauss

Liberty's Edge

Talonhawke wrote:
Heck with the 5% off crafting cost trait is doable by around level 8 if you horde your money. (or use said trait to make 5% back on cheaply made items like scrolls or potions that you sell if given enough down time. Or any other magical money making scheme)

Good point. Yet it assumes most adventuring parties and PC are willing to horde that much for a item. That's a lot of money spent towards a item trhat only one person can use. Imo not many players are going to agree to that.


danielc wrote:
Sorry for being dense, but if they just limited the level of the spell tht could be used wouldn't that nerf this item down to a reasonable level?

There are 1st level spells than can still be pretty strong if lasting for 24h.

Grace could make a Paladin mostly ignore AoO. Divine favor is a very good buff.

Sure they are not Permanent Greater Invisibility or Deadly Juggernaut level of good, but still pretty good for a 24h buff.

Many spells are balanced around duration and/or action economy. This ring completelly changes that. And in every new book there'll be new spells, so chances are there'll be more spells that are too good to last 24h.


Heaven's Agent wrote:
deuxhero wrote:
^That spell has a cap though
Still, a 24-hr duration +5 luck bonus to melee attack rolls, melee weapon damage rolls, Strength checks, and Strength-based skill checks is nothing to laugh at. The DR 10/— is simply icing on the cake.

At the level you are likely to get it, I'd just go with Divine Power.

You lose the DR, but you get an extra attack (pseudo-haste) and don't need to 'charge' it up. At level 15, the to-hit and damage bonuses are at +5, at level 18 it's at +6.


seems like lowering the cost of the item and making it for 1st and 2nd circle spells that you know would balance it out and make it a caster only useful object.

Shadow Lodge

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Errata for this: Elminimate the item.

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